Issue of trans doctor using female facilities previously raised, tribunal told
Ms Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with Dr Upton at the hospital on Christmas Eve 2023.
She was placed on special leave and then suspended after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'.
Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against Fife health board and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination and victimisation.
On Friday, Dr Pitt told the tribunal she met Dr Upton in a corridor around midnight, and said the junior doctor 'looked pale'.
She said they went into the wellbeing room, and a 'sobbing' Dr Upton told her there had been 'a very upsetting interaction'.
Dr Pitt said: 'She was really upset, she felt very fearful and at that time had felt cornered.
'She had been at the end of her shift and in a changing room had a conversation with Sandie and it had become very unpleasant and painful for her.
'She said she felt as if she had been cornered and that the end of a shift was not a good time to have this conversation, but it escalated and she felt she couldn't get away, and she just felt very upset by what had been said to her.'
The witness said Ms Peggie 'felt that Dr Upton should not be in the changing room', and Dr Pitt added: 'I do remember some comments about likening the situation to something to do with convicted rapist… what I clearly remember is just feeling so very, very sad, because that must have been so hurtful a thing to hear.
'Dr Upton was really upset, I had to comfort her, she was crying so much.'
The consultant said she walked Dr Upton to the car, 'as she was feeling quite threatened', and then sent an email to the doctor's line manager, Dr Kate Searle, and Ms Peggie's line manager Esther Davidson, titled 'catch up', asking to speak the next week.
She also told the tribunal that during an 'informal meeting' between consultants and senior nurses at some point between August and December 2023, a concern had been raised about Dr Upton using the female changing room by a senior nurse.
Dr Pitt said: 'At one of those meetings before December, a member of senior nurses had said there had been a concern raised about Dr Upton using that changing room but that our understanding was that she was entitled to, that's what we had been informed. We were not told of the specifics, that was to be aware that people had a concern.'
Ms Peggie's junior counsel, Charlotte Elves, raised an email sent on December 29, 2023 from Dr Searle, which said 'we all support her and condemn the actions of Sandie'.
The witness said it would have been sent to around 20 senior consultants, and described it as 'information sharing'.
Dr Pitt said: 'When I read 'condemn the actions' it was that we heard she had been verbally attacked. The way I would always think is anyone would condemn a behaviour that causes someone to feel unsafe or disrespected, that does not mean we condemn the person.'
She said Dr Upton's sex was 'just not something we talked about', and added: 'When Dr Upton started working with us we were told she was Dr Beth Upton… It didn't come up in conversation.'
Asked about other actions she could have taken, Dr Pitt said: 'I genuinely didn't know how to respond. An incident happens, one reports it and there is an investigation, but it was very late at night, I was tired. I genuinely didn't know what was the right thing to do.'
The consultant was asked why she did not engage with three email chains about the incident.
Ms Elves said: 'What I'm going to suggest is you didn't reply to any of those three threads as they were becoming increasingly partisan, condemnatory of Sandie Peggie, and you knew that was not appropriate.'
Dr Pitt said: 'I don't use email as a form of conversation.'
The tribunal continues.
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The Herald Scotland
4 hours ago
- The Herald Scotland
Tribunal bundle reveals new details in Sandie Peggie case
Ms Peggie was ultimately cleared, with the health board saying earlier this week that the panel "found that there was insufficient evidence" to back up the four allegations made by Dr Beth Upton. Following the announcement, Scottish Labour's deputy leader, Dame Jackie Baillie, called on NHS Fife to settle the tribunal and bring "this sorry saga to an end.' READ MORE The minutes of the investigation form part of the evidence bundle — the compilation of all documents relevant to the employment tribunal, including the original complaint, witness statements, internal correspondence, screengrabs of WhatsApp messages, Facebook posts, disciplinary records, and responses from legal representatives. The Herald on Sunday is the only newspaper to have accessed the bundle. Ms Peggie, an experienced A&E nurse, was suspended after a confrontation with Dr Upton, a transgender medic, on Christmas Eve 2023 at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy. Dr Upton ultimately made four complaints about Ms Peggie. The first was that Ms Peggie was carrying out observations on a patient in the resuscitation area when Dr Upton entered the cubicle. Rather than continue, Ms Peggie allegedly "stopped, exited the cubicle and told Beth Upton to complete the observations herself." The second concerned an incident on December 18, when a child left the department without being seen. Dr Upton said they asked Ms Peggie for her "advice and assessment from a triage perspective," but the nurse refused to answer and "chose to speak through a colleague." The third allegation was of misconduct: that Ms Peggie told Dr Upton they "did not have the correct chromosomes to be within a female changing room," and referred to "a recent news story that involved a transgender woman in a female Scottish prison." The fourth was that she misgendered her colleague by referring to Dr Upton as "he/him, including in discussions with colleagues." However, the minutes of the investigation suggest that the potentially career-ending patient safety allegations were quickly dismissed. Dr Beth Upton (Image: Getty) Dr Upton told investigators their "concerns were more in relation to potential issues that could happen in the future" and that they "did not feel patient safety was compromised for this patient at this time." Ms Peggie's managers also said they had no concerns about her practice. Esther Davidson, Ms Peggie's supervisor, told the panel she had "never received any concerns about anyone's safety in relation" to the nurse's practice. She did refer to "one occasion around eight years ago when a newly qualified nurse felt intimidated by Miss Peggie and eventually snapped." An early resolution meeting was held, followed by a short monitoring period. "There were no further issues after this." Also included in the evidence bundle is a letter sent by Dr Kate Searle, Dr Upton's supervisor, to all emergency department consultants. The email, circulated shortly after the Christmas Eve incident, appeared to condemn Ms Peggie outright — before any formal investigation had taken place or Ms Peggie had been asked for her account of events. Dr Searle wrote: "Beth was approached in a very confrontational and aggressive manner by SN Sandie Peggie in the changing room. She stated that she had no right to be in the female changing room, and that Sandie was not the only member of staff who felt this way, and that she found Beth's presence in there intimidating. "She then proceeded to use other offensive terms, including alluding to her presence in the female changing room being akin to the situation of a convicted rapist being housed in a woman's prison earlier this year. "Beth is understandably shaken and distressed by the episode, and indeed felt unsafe and threatened at the time. I have had a long chat with Beth today and ensured she knows we all support her and that we condemn the actions of Sandie." Dr Searle added that she had ensured Dr Upton would not share shifts with Ms Peggie over the next month, had filed a formal Datix report, contacted NHS Fife's equality lead, referred Dr Upton to occupational health services, and arranged for managers to meet Ms Peggie. Dr Searle is due to give evidence and be cross-examined at the tribunal on Tuesday. "I felt upset and afraid" Dr Upton told investigators that early on, they found Ms Peggie to be "someone that didn't want to engage with her." They said they "felt things were challenging enough with the changing room situation" and "wanted to ensure that she was not contributing to making things difficult within the department" and that their "concerns did not warrant going to speak to someone at that point." Asked about the impact of the Christmas Eve incident, Dr Upton said they "felt upset and afraid, and has remained so since." READ MORE They took two months off work in March 2024 after learning Ms Peggie was returning to the department. They told the panel they had suffered "daily panic attacks," and that "her wife was concerned about safety at work." "I feel people — especially in this country — can be prejudiced towards trans people," they said. "I was conscious of the potential for this situation to become so much bigger, which it has subsequently done." They said there had "been leaked pre-transition photos of her and harassment of her and her family, all of which has been very distressing." They said journalists had turned up at their door and harassed them and others around them. Personal logs and earlier difficulties Dr Upton kept notes of their interactions with Ms Peggie on their phone. In one entry dated August 2023, they wrote that Ms Peggie had walked into the changing room while they were there and "abruptly walked out" and waited outside. "Can't help but feel slightly off, upset, put off by this. Disappointed it appears that she chose not to enter because of me and didn't think I belonged there. Sad times." A second note, from October 2023, said Ms Peggie again left the changing room when Dr Upton arrived. After the Christmas Eve incident, Dr Upton wrote that they were "distraught." "I feel attacked and cornered. I explained, this is the first time I've experienced anything like this in person." Asked why they kept a log on your phone, Dr Upton said "if you're having difficult interactions with people, that you should keep a track of it." They added that their wife and mother "also advised her to keep a track of difficult interactions and any repeat behaviours." Dr Upton told the panel they were "feeling uncomfortable in the situation and felt it was good to keep track." They also confirmed they "had previous difficulties with a colleague during her FY1 placement, and had kept a log of that." Ms Peggie's legal team sought an order for Dr Upton's phone to be inspected by forensic expert Jim Borwick. However, this was rejected by the tribunal. They wanted to discover the date and time the notes were created and when they were edited. Mr Borwick is due to give evidence on Tuesday. The nurse's response The panel also sent supplementary questions to Ms Peggie. None were about patient safety. The first four were about her general use of pronouns. In a formal reply, Ms Peggie's solicitor, Margaret Gribbon, said a disciplinary hearing should 'proceed on the basis of concrete allegations of clearly specified allegations of misconduct, normally on a specified date. An invitation to an employee to make a general confession is neither usual nor fair." Asked how she refers to Dr Upton, Ms Peggie said: "Beth." She added: "Pronouns are not used to address people, so I do not use pronouns, either preferred pronouns, or correct sex pronouns, to address anybody, patients or colleagues." Asked why she told colleagues before Christmas Eve that she would speak to Dr Upton directly, Ms Peggie said: "No one appeared willing to speak to Beth on behalf of myself or my colleagues. "I hope that by speaking to him personally, he might be able to realise he was making us feel uncomfortable by changing in a female changing area, and the reason why, in the hope he would understand and change elsewhere." She said she entered the changing room to change her trousers, which were soiled due to menstruation, and that the situation made her feel "embarrassed." Asked whether her feelings contributed to the interaction, she said: "Yes." Asked if she had discussed the incident with a supervisor, she replied: "I wasn't upset I was menstruating. "I was upset because my dignity as a woman was being violated because I was being forced to deal with the situation with a male being present in the female changing room at a time when I felt vulnerable and in dire need of privacy and a single-sex space. "I didn't feel comfortable speaking to the staff I was working with, especially as it was a personal and embarrassing matter. I was keen to go home, especially as it's Christmas Day, and discuss my upset with my husband and my family." She said the incident lasted just two minutes and that she hoped the conversation might help Dr Upton understand. Asked why she didn't report the matter, Ms Peggie said: "I was hopeful that Beth would accept my concerns and the reasons why I felt uncomfortable. "I tried to give him an example so he could appreciate the severity of the situation. I told them I had a difficult history with men." "I didn't think it was necessary to speak to anyone, because I was hoping, on reflection, Beth would understand." She said she was "upset that the interaction did not seem to have had any influence on the way Beth felt, and I realised from his reaction that he did not seem to care about the stress he was causing me." "I was left shaken following his response. It was on my mind throughout the shift, but I did not want it to impact my work." Sandie Peggie (r) with solicitor Margaret Gribbon (Image: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty) Ms Peggie denied ever referring to chromosomes. "I am a nurse and don't need to ask a person what their chromosomes are, because I already know. I deny referring to chromosomes during my interaction with Dr Upton." Asked about the reference to the Scottish prison story, she said: "It was in the media at the time. I was trying to give [Dr Upton] an example of how I and other women feel." Asked whether she treated Dr Upton with dignity and respect, Ms Peggie replied: "Yes, because Dr Upton's presence there and the board's decision to permit him to use a female-only changing room was unlawful. "I felt upset, humiliated and harassed to find him there, particularly when I had a menstrual flood to deal with. I remained as calm as I could, but I felt strongly that he should not be there. "His insistence that he was entitled to be there meant I felt I had no option but to try different explanations of why his presence made me and many of my colleagues uncomfortable. "I should not have been put in this position, and I handled it as well and as calmly as I could, given the difficult circumstances in which management had put me." NHS Fife's findings In a statement released on Wednesday, NHS Fife said: "The panel found that there was insufficient evidence to support a finding of misconduct." Ms Peggie's solicitor, Ms Gribbon, said her client was "relieved and delighted that this 18-month long internal process has concluded and cleared her of all allegations." The tribunal continues.
North Wales Chronicle
14 hours ago
- North Wales Chronicle
Tory leader calls for resignations at NHS Fife over Sandie Peggie tribunal
Ms Peggie was suspended from her job as an A&E nurse at the Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy in 2024 after complaining about having to share a changing room with trans medic Dr Beth Upton. Ms Peggie took the board to an employment tribunal which began earlier this year. But this week, Ms Peggie was cleared of a bullying and harassment complaint from Dr Upton, as the tribunal reconvened. Mr Findlay has called for NHS Fife chief executive Carol Potter to resign, along with the authority's board, and if they refuse, the Scottish Government should step in and sack them, he said. 'This ongoing slow-motion car crash from NHS Fife confirms that Carol Potter and her entire board can no longer remain in post,' the Scottish Tory leader said. 'In their zeal to embrace the SNP's bonkers belief in gender ideology, they were willing to destroy the career of a nurse and waste huge sums of taxpayers' money.' Mr Findlay claimed the board was 'smearing Sandie Peggie and the campaigners who have stood with her'. On Friday, the board released a lengthy statement claiming there had been a threat of 'physical harm and sexual violence' in relation to the tribunal, but clarified this is not believed to be related to any of Ms Peggie's supporters. An earlier version of the statement had referenced the involvement of the campaign group Sex Matters. 'The claimant's case is being supported by Sex Matters, whose chief executive officer and co-founder was called as a witness by the claimant in the earlier hearing. 'The claimant's barrister is also chair of Sex Matters. 'Other members of the organisation's 'advisory group' have provided commentary to the media on a number of occasions where no reference is made to their direct involvement.' The updated version of the statement removed reference to the group's involvement in the tribunal and inserted two notes saying the board 'is not seeking to suggest that Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned'. Mr Findlay added: 'John Swinney, Neil Gray and their SNP colleagues appear to be the only people left in Scotland who think this is OK. 'If the NHS Fife board won't do the right thing and quit, then they should be sacked.' A spokesperson for NHS Fife said: 'As this is an active legal case, it would be inappropriate to respond to these comments.' A Scottish Government spokesperson said: 'It would be inappropriate to comment further while judicial proceedings in an employment tribunal are ongoing.'
South Wales Guardian
14 hours ago
- South Wales Guardian
Tory leader calls for resignations at NHS Fife over Sandie Peggie tribunal
Ms Peggie was suspended from her job as an A&E nurse at the Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy in 2024 after complaining about having to share a changing room with trans medic Dr Beth Upton. Ms Peggie took the board to an employment tribunal which began earlier this year. But this week, Ms Peggie was cleared of a bullying and harassment complaint from Dr Upton, as the tribunal reconvened. Mr Findlay has called for NHS Fife chief executive Carol Potter to resign, along with the authority's board, and if they refuse, the Scottish Government should step in and sack them, he said. 'This ongoing slow-motion car crash from NHS Fife confirms that Carol Potter and her entire board can no longer remain in post,' the Scottish Tory leader said. 'In their zeal to embrace the SNP's bonkers belief in gender ideology, they were willing to destroy the career of a nurse and waste huge sums of taxpayers' money.' Mr Findlay claimed the board was 'smearing Sandie Peggie and the campaigners who have stood with her'. On Friday, the board released a lengthy statement claiming there had been a threat of 'physical harm and sexual violence' in relation to the tribunal, but clarified this is not believed to be related to any of Ms Peggie's supporters. An earlier version of the statement had referenced the involvement of the campaign group Sex Matters. 'The claimant's case is being supported by Sex Matters, whose chief executive officer and co-founder was called as a witness by the claimant in the earlier hearing. 'The claimant's barrister is also chair of Sex Matters. 'Other members of the organisation's 'advisory group' have provided commentary to the media on a number of occasions where no reference is made to their direct involvement.' The updated version of the statement removed reference to the group's involvement in the tribunal and inserted two notes saying the board 'is not seeking to suggest that Sex Matters have contributed to the behaviour or issues mentioned'. Mr Findlay added: 'John Swinney, Neil Gray and their SNP colleagues appear to be the only people left in Scotland who think this is OK. 'If the NHS Fife board won't do the right thing and quit, then they should be sacked.' A spokesperson for NHS Fife said: 'As this is an active legal case, it would be inappropriate to respond to these comments.' A Scottish Government spokesperson said: 'It would be inappropriate to comment further while judicial proceedings in an employment tribunal are ongoing.'
