Latest news with #KRISTENWELKER
NBC News
3 days ago
- Business
- NBC News
Rep. Mike Johnson (R) Speaker of the House, Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-Ga.), Lanhee Chen, Jeh Johnson, Jonathan Martin, Kelly O'Donnell
KRISTEN WELKER: This Sunday: spending fight. President Trump's legislative agenda narrowly passes in the House and now heads to the Senate where it faces significant challenges. SEN. JOSH HAWLEY: I just want to make sure that there are no Medicaid benefit cuts. SEN. RAND PAUL: This will be the greatest increase in the debt ceiling ever. The GOP owns this now. KRISTEN WELKER: As concerns grow over the rising debt… ELON MUSK: I think a bill can be big or can be beautiful, but I don't know if it can be both. KRISTEN WELKER: Can Republicans overcome their differences? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We got to get that beautiful, big bill, beautiful, beautiful as it is, got to get it passed the Senate. Call your senators. KRISTEN WELKER: I'll talk exclusively with Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia. Plus: tariff resistance. Uncertainty grows over President Trump's sweeping global tariffs after federal courts question the president's tariff authority. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We're having a lot of problems with the liberal judges in courts, the radical left, crazy judges. PETER NAVARRO: I can assure the American people that the Trump tariff agenda is alive, well, healthy. KRISTEN WELKER: And: campus crackdown. The Trump administration's battle with Harvard escalates as it tries to block international students from enrolling. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Harvard wants to fight. They want to show how smart they are, and they're getting their ass kicked. KRISTEN WELKER: Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief Justice and National Affairs Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell. Jonathan Martin of Politico. Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. And Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press. ANNOUNCER: From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. KRISTEN WELKER: Good Sunday morning. President Trump's legislative agenda -- what is now formally called the 'One Big Beautiful Bill' -- narrowly passed the House by one single vote. It includes an extension of the 2017 tax cuts, nearly $150 billion in new defense spending, almost $150 billion for border and immigration priorities, and almost $800 billion in savings from changes and cuts to Medicaid. And now the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is urging the Senate not to make major changes to the bill. But Senate Republicans returning to Washington this week are vowing to make significant fixes to address their concerns. [START TAPE] SEN. RAND PAUL: I've told them, I can support the package if they separate the debt ceiling off and have a separate vote on that. I want nothing to do with that. I didn't vote for the spending, I didn't vote for the debt. SEN. JOSH HAWLEY: I just want to make sure that there are no Medicaid benefit cuts. I'm concerned about some of what the House has done on rural hospitals, essentially the hospital tax. SEN. RON JOHNSON: We have to reduce the deficit. And so, we need to focus on spending, spending, spending. I think we have enough to stop the process until the president gets serious about spending reduction and reducing the deficit. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Now, any delays in the president's bill making its way through Congress comes with serious risks to the economy. The Treasury secretary has warned Congress it must extend the debt ceiling to avert a default before August. But as Republicans sort out their differences, some House members who voted in favor of the bill got an earful of boos and jeers when they returned to their home districts. [BEGIN TAPE] REP. MIKE FLOOD: I voted for that bill. I voted for that bill. CROWD: Boo. REP. ASHLEY HINSON: I was also proud to vote for President Trump's one big, beautiful bill last week. CROWD: Boo. REP. ASHLEY HINSON: This is a generational investment – this is a general investment. This is your time. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Republican Senator Joni Ernst defended the bill's proposed changes to Medicaid when pressed by a constituent who worried it would lead to deaths. SEN. JONI ERNST: We – people are not – well, we all are going to die. So, for heaven's sakes, for heaven's sakes, folks, okay, no, but – well, what you don't want to do is listen to me when I say that we are going to focus on those that are most vulnerable KRISTEN WELKER: And joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson of Louisiana. Speaker Johnson, welcome back to Meet the Press. SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Hey, great to be with you as always. KRISTEN WELKER: It is great to have you back. Let's start right there, talking about what is now officially called the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. Here's what Elon Musk had to say about it. Take a listen. [START TAPE] ELON MUSK: I was, like, disappointed to see the massive spending bill, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it, and undermines the work that the DOGE team is doing. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: And Mr. Speaker, a number of Senate Republicans share Elon Musk's concerns that it will add to the debt and deficit. So how do you convince your Republican Senate colleagues to get on board and support this bill? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Well, I convince my friends and colleagues by use of the facts. I sent a long text message to my good friend, Elon Musk, after he made those comments the other day to explain this is not a spending bill. This is a reconciliation package. It is reconciling a budget. So there is some additional spending, as you noted earlier at the opening, for national security, for historic investments in border security, the largest in generations, because those are necessary expenditures. But what my friends are missing is the tremendous and historic level of spending cuts that are also in the same package. So, a lot of the analysis that people are pointing to is from groups, for example, like the Congressional Budget Office, the CBO. They have projected anemic economic growth. They're assuming a growth level of 1.8% over the next ten years. Kristen, never in U.S. history has the U.S. economy sustained less than 2% economic growth over a ten-year period. What's going to happen here is exactly the opposite. We're going to have historic growth because we're basing this on the history of the recent past. Remember, in the first Trump administration the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the CBO was off in its estimates of that one by $1.5 trillion, okay, because they underestimated the incredible growth that would be brought about. This is going to be jet fuel. The reason we call it the 'big, beautiful bill' is because it is a tremendous pro-growth package entwined in this legislation that is going to make everybody's incomes go up. There's going to be more job opportunity, more opportunity to climb up that economic ladder in America. Because job creators, entrepreneurs, and risk-takers will have the government off their backs. They will have lower taxes and they will be expanding their businesses. We're incentivizing U.S. manufacturing again. We're bringing jobs back to the U.S. That's going to help everybody – all boats rise, like we did in 2017, except this time it's on steroids. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it is worth noting that some budget experts say that in 2017 actually the CBO was pretty right when you adjusted for inflation. But let me read you something that you said back in 2021 about the CBO. This was in relation to a Democratic bill. You said, "The CBO has confirmed this bill adds nearly $400 billion to the deficit, contrary to the White House's claim that the bill is paid for." So do you only believe the CBO when a Democrat is president, Mr. Speaker? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: No. This is very easy to explain. The CBO sometimes gets projections correct. But they're always off, every single time, when they project economic growth. They always underestimate the growth that will be brought about by tax cuts in reduction and regulations. Look, when we did this in 2017, the first two years of the Trump administration, we literally brought about the greatest economy in the history of the world, not just the U.S. because we got the government off the backs of the people who create the jobs, and we've allowed hardworking Americans to have more money in their pocket that they could take home. We're doing that again. Remember, in this Big Beautiful Bill, the reason we call it that is because there's benefits for everybody. It's geared for hard-working Americans, lower and middle income Americans. No tax on tips, no tax on overtime. No tax on interest on car loans, if you buy products made in the U.S.A. We're going to give relief to seniors on Social Security. There's so many benefits and features in this bill, and it's going to allow everybody to do better. And at the same time, projecting and ensuring the largest amount of savings literally in history. There's no government on planet Earth that's ever saved over $1.6 trillion in a piece of legislation. This one does. And so when you reduce government spending, and you allow people to keep more of their hard-earned money, the economy grows. And that's exactly what's going to happen here. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, the Joint Committee on Taxation is projecting just three-hundredths of a percent on growth. But let me just ask you, I want you to address the concerns of your colleagues – Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Rand Paul. Why doesn't this bill do more to address the debt and deficit, Mr. Speaker? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Yeah. Well, listen, I agree with my good friend, Ron Johnson, for example. A lot of the comments that he's stated about government spending. We have a north of $36 trillion federal debt right now, and it is the largest national security concern for the U.S. I am a fiscal hawk. Many of my Republican colleagues in the House feel the same way. But it did not – we didn't get in this situation overnight, Kristen. It took us decades, many decades of Congress's, frankly, mismanagement of the public fisc to get in this situation. And the last four years of the Biden administration increased spending dramatically. So, it's going to take us a while to get out of it. We can't flip a magic switch and reverse it overnight. But, this is the largest step forward in the right direction the Congress has ever made. I liken this to an aircraft carrier. You don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime. It takes a mile of open ocean. This is the biggest turn in that wheel that we would've had in generations. And this is the first of a number of steps. This is a key point. This is not the only reconciliation bill. We're going to have a second budget reconciliation bill that follows after this, and we're beginning next week the appropriations process, which is the spending bills for government. And you're going to see a lot of the DOGE cuts and a lot of this new fiscal restraint reflected in what Congress does next. So stay tuned, this is not the end-all, be-all. I tell my friends, my fellow fiscal hawks, we've got to get our fiscal house in order, and this is an incredibly and historic first start. KRISTEN WELKER: Mr. Speaker, if the Big Beautiful Bill does add to the debt, will President Trump own that? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: It's – it's not going to add to the debt. But, I can tell you that President Trump is laser-focused on two primary things: delivering on his campaign promises and the America First agenda. Which is what a record number of, you know, 77 million voters, popular votes, requested and demanded and gave us a mandate to do. But, he's also concerned, as I am, as Ron Johnson is, as Rand Paul is, as all of us are, about the nation's debt. And he and I talk about this frequently. And he is excited about changing that trajectory. President Trump, I think, could be the most consequential president of the modern era because he has these opportunities to do these big things. The One Big Beautiful Bill is a big first step to provide relief for the American people, to give everybody more take-home pay, more money in their pocket, and to change the trajectory of the country. And again, it's the first of a number of steps. And President Trump is committed to doing this. KRISTEN WELKER: Mr. Speaker, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, the Tax Foundation, the Penn Wharton Budget Model all say this will add trillions of dollars to the deficit. Are you really telling the American people this will not add one penny to the debt and deficit? You can guarantee that? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: I – I am telling you, this is going to reduce the deficit. I mean, you cite some of these figures. Do you know what their economic growth projections are? The Committee for a Responsible Budgeting, they're not even – I don't think they're assuming any economic growth. I mean, that's not realistic. A lot of these groups use what they call static scoring and not dynamic scoring. Dynamic scoring, in layman's terms, is reality. That we are going to spur on tremendous economic growth here. And so you're going to have a higher job participation number in the economy. You're going to have higher wages. You're going to have more jobs provided. And in addition to that, the president's extraordinary policies are producing great things for the country. The tariff policy that was so controversial in the beginning is having an extraordinary effect on the U.S. economy. It's going to bring more jobs and billions of dollars in investment – trillions of dollars of investment back to the U.S. All these things are working in tandem. And I'm telling you, just wait, we'll have plenty of time for this to all shake out before the next election cycle, the mid-year for Congress. And everyone will see, they're going to be doing a lot better before that election. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, let's move on to Medicaid now. As you know, that's a big part of the debate as well. Here's what the American Hospital Association is warning. It writes, quote, "The sheer magnitude of the level of reductions to the Medicaid program alone will impact all parties. Hospitals, especially in rural and underserved areas, will be forced to make difficult decisions about whether they will have to reduce services, reduce staff, and potentially consider closing their doors." Republican Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri calling this a 'hospital tax,' Mr. Speaker. So does the House bill put rural hospitals, and frankly, the most vulnerable Americans at risk? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: No, and you can underscore what I'm about to tell you. There are no Medicaid cuts in the Big Beautiful Bill. We're not cutting Medicaid. What we're doing is strengthening the program. We're reducing fraud, waste and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid to ensure that that program is essential for so many people, ensure that it's available for the most vulnerable. It's intended for young, you know, single pregnant women, and the disabled, and the elderly. But what's happening right now is you have a lot of people, for example, young men, able-bodied workers, who are on Medicaid. They're not working when they can. That drains resources from the people that need it most. And so what we're doing here is an important, and frankly, heroic thing to preserve the program so that it doesn't become insolvent. This is not going to hurt rural hospitals. There's a lot of flexibility built into this. They keep saying that, you know, 7.6 million people is the figure that is supposedly going to be affected by this. But when you look at those numbers and you break them down, this is high on public opinion polling. You're talking about 1.4 million illegal aliens that are receiving Medicaid right now. They're not entitled to that. This is for U.S. citizens in those vulnerable populations. There's about 4.8 million people that they're referring to that are able-bodied workers. If you are able to work and you're not, and you are riding on the public wagon, you need to help pull it. And by the way, Kristen, this is no draconian requirement. All we're requiring in the legislation is 20 hours a week. You can volunteer in your community, you can be in a job training program, or you can get to work. And this is my message to young men around the country who are taking advantage of the system. It is abusing the system. We're going to fix that. And I'm telling you, that is a very popular thing among the American people because it comports with common sense. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, let's talk about that 4.8 million number. That is a CBO number, by the way, which estimates how many people would lose Medicaid if this bill were to go into law. The CBA, CBO – SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: No, no, wait, wait. Hold on -- KRISTEN WELKER: Hold on, hold on. SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Kristen, they don't -- KRISTEN WELKER: Let me make my point, and then I'll let you make your point. I think it's important to point out, the CBO is not saying specifically those 4.8 million are engaging in fraud. They say many will lose coverage because of paperwork, red tape, or failing and falling short of the new rules. So just let me ask you directly, do you have any actual proof that these people are engaging in fraud? Millions of Americans, as you say. SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: This is a very important distinction. Those 4.8 million people will not lose their Medicaid unless they choose to do so. I will go into any town hall in any district in America and explain what this is, and every single person will nod their heads and go, "Oh, that makes sense." You're telling me that you're going to require the able-bodied, these young men, for example, okay, to only work or volunteer in their community for 20 hours a week, and that's too cumbersome for them? I'm not buying it. The American people are not buying it. This is a new requirement. It should've been put in a long time ago. And the people who are complaining that these people are going to lose their coverage because they can't fulfill their paperwork, this is minor enforcement of this policy, and it follows common sense. When people work, when able-bodied young men work, it's good for them, for their dignity, their purpose. And it's good for the community they're in. If you can't find a job, then volunteer in your community for 20 hours and you will meet the requirement. That is a basic, minimal standard. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, because we're almost out of time. Mr. Speaker, do you have any actual evidence that these people that you refer to are engaging in fraud? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: There is a tremendous amount of fraud in Medicaid. It's undisputed. Tens of billions of dollars every year are lost in fraud to Medicaid. So there's another category of people, 1.2 million, that are totally ineligible to be on the program. We also have evidence of people who are listed and enrolled in multiple programs in multiple states simultaneously, and they are cheating the system. I'm going to say this very clearly: our legislation preserves Medicaid, strengthens Medicaid for the people who actually need it and deserve it. And we're going to get rid of the fraud, waste and abuse, and that is a long time overdue. KRISTEN WELKER: And some of what you are referring to, refers to improper paperwork. But let's move on because one of the other big issues in the Big Beautiful Bill is taxes. President Trump had actually at one point raised the idea of letting the tax rate on the wealthiest people go back to that 2017 rate. The House bill, though, does make the lower rate permanent. So Mr. Speaker, why do millionaires need to keep that tax cut? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: That's a Democrat talking point. This is not giving tax cuts to millionaires, it's the opposite. The people in the tax bracket that you're referring to, many of them are small business owners. They are the people that provide the jobs in every community in America. They use pass-through taxation, and we don't get in the weeds, we don't have time to get in the complications of it. We are the party that reduces taxes for all Americans. And I'm telling you, the One Big Beautiful Bill is geared for hard-working Americans. The biggest beneficiaries of this will be low and middle income Americans. That's what we did in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, that's what we'll do again by extending those tax cuts in perpetuity, and making them permanent. That was a major promise of the president on the campaign trail. It's a major promise of ours, and we are going to fulfill it. The Republican Party is doing right by the American people, and they're going to feel the effects of that soon. KRISTEN WELKER: And Mr. Speaker, just to be clear, I mean, this is not a Democratic talking point. I'm asking you about something that President Trump himself had floated the idea of. It is estimated that if the bill becomes law the top 10% of households would see an increase in resources, but the bottom 10% would see a decrease in resources. Why are you comfortable with that? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: No, that's not – no, that's simply not – I'm not comfortable with that. It is not true. Look at the actual facts of the tax cuts that we're extending. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, again, from 2017, the people that benefited most from that were the lowest income Americans. It was households that made between $20,000, $30,000 a year annually. They had the biggest benefit from the TCJA. Also, the people that make $40,000 or less had their best tax benefits in over 40 years. Go back and look at the statistics. So, what we're doing right now is by making all those tax cuts permanent, we're preventing the largest tax increase in U.S. history. Kristen, if we don't get this bill passed, every American is going to receive the largest tax increase in the history of our country at the end of this year when the TCJA expires. Don't forget that. We have to extend it, and this is the vehicle to do it. KRISTEN WELKER: Bottom line, Mr. Speaker. You all had set a July 4th deadline to get all of this passed. Are you confident you can meet that July 4th deadline? SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Yeah, they've always discounted us. I mean, I said I would do it out of the House before Memorial Day, and I was laughed at when I said that back early part of the year. But we beat it by four days, okay? We're going to get this done, the sooner the better. Because all these extraordinary benefits that we're talking about have to happen as soon as possible. And I'm convinced that the Senate will do it, do the right thing, send it back to us. We're going to get it to the president's desk, and he's going to have a – we're all going to have a glorious celebration on Independence Day, by July 4th when he gets this signed into law. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Well, we're going to be tracking it very closely. Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you so much for being here to talk about it. Really appreciate it. SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: Great to be with you. Thanks, Kristen. KRISTEN WELKER: Great to have you. When we come back, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia. He's the author of a new children's book, We're in This Together: Leo's Lunch Box, a story about sharing. Senator Warnock, welcome back to Meet The Press. SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Good morning. Great to be here with you on my way to church. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, thank you for stopping by. I know church is the highest priority. But thank you for making us a priority as well. We appreciate it. Let's start right off where I was talking with the speaker. One of the big issues in what is now officially called the "Big Beautiful Bill Act" is, of course, Medicaid. And he makes the argument people should have to work in order to get Medicaid benefits. What's wrong with that argument? Why shouldn't people have to go to work in order to get Medicaid? SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Good morning again to you and your audience. Listen, I am a big advocate for work. I have a fierce work ethic. It was something passed on to me by my late father who was a preacher and a junk man. And every day, you know, he was picking up old junk cars to feed our family. And on Sunday morning, the man who picked up cars that had been thrown away, picked up people who had been thrown away. And this is what this legislation does, that they're to trying to do. They're going to throw poor people away. I believe in work. And I recently released a study in Georgia that shows that this work reporting requirement, because that's what we're talking about, not work requirements, work reporting requirements is very good at kicking people off of their health care. It's not good at incentivizing work at all. There's something wrong-headed about this kind of view of poor people, of working class people, that somehow they don't want to go to work. We have seen this failed experiment in Georgia. We've got over a half million people in Georgia who are in the health care coverage gap. They are largely the working poor. The governor has put a program in place. He calls it Prosperity to Coverage, or Pathways to Coverage. He ought to call it pathways or blockages to coverage. Because they've only enrolled about 7,000 people. That's pathetic. And the data clearly shows that if you want to get people to work, the way to do that is to provide them just basic health care so that they don't get sick. And what they're trying to do now is take this terrible experiment in Georgia, force it on the whole nation. And what we will see as a result of that is a workforce that is sicker and poorer and an economy that's weaker. KRISTEN WELKER: And we should note actually that Georgia is the only state right now with work requirements. I want to move on to another aspect of this bill. The bill allocates nearly $150 billion towards border security and immigration. Under the second Trump administration, border crossings are at some of their lowest levels ever recorded. Given that most voters, Senator, say that this is a top issue, do you support the measures in this bill that would strengthen the border and border security? SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Listen, I support strong borders. And we don't want to see people who are criminals, who are committing awful acts, allowed into our country. But what we need is common sense immigration laws in our country. What we are witnessing right now here in the State of Georgia, for example, a young college student who was doing well, has been here most of her life. She was accidentally picked up in a traffic stop. As it turns out, the police had it all wrong. They had the wrong person. But because of these Draconian movements that we're seeing, this kind of singling out and "othering" people, this college student found herself in the grips of ICE. And now she's trying to navigate her way through the system. I don't believe that the people who voted for me and the people who voted for Donald Trump intended for this young woman, who is a bright young woman already contributing to our society, to be caught up in the clutches of our immigration system. This is the politics of fear and division and distraction. And it's because they know that their agenda, their economic agenda is not working. KRISTEN WELKER: And just yes or no: do you support the provisions that would strengthen border security? Or are you a no on this entire bill? Just yes or no -- SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Listen, I supported a bipartisan bill last year that would have strengthened our border. It was largely a bill focused on giving our border patrol the things that they needed. And the Republicans decided to kill it in order to put Donald Trump in office. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Let me talk to you now about the state of the Democratic Party. As you know there's been a lot of focus on former President Biden, the state of his health in the waning days of the campaign. I want to read you a statement from one of former Vice President Kamala Harris's senior campaign advisors, David Plouffe. This is from the new book 'Original Sin' which takes a look at Biden's 2024 campaign. Plouffe says, "If Biden had decided in 2023 to drop out, we would have had a robust primary. Whitmer, Pritzker, Newsom, Buttigieg, Harris, and Klobuchar would have run. "Warnock and Shapiro would have kicked the tires. Maybe Mark Cuban or a business person of some sort. Twenty percent of governors and thirty percent of senators would have thought about it. We would have been eminently stronger." You were name-checked there, Senator. So I have to give you a chance to respond. Would the Democratic Party have been stronger had President Biden dropped out of the racer or not run at all? SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Kristen, here is what we absolutely know about last year's election. It's over. And I'm going to spend all of my energy focused on the task in front of us. We are headed into a very critical week. The Republicans are trying to push forward this big ugly bill that's going to literally cut as many as 7 million Americans off of their health care. It is a drag not only on their health care, it's a drag on the American economy. They want to cut some $290 billion out of SNAP. This is an unfunded mandate at a time when Donald Trump's tariff tax is literally raising the cost of groceries. And so I've got my sleeves rolled up and in front of me is the American people, the people of Georgia. I'm doing everything I can to save them from Trump's big ugly bill. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. I didn't hear a direct answer to the question there. But we do need to keep moving because we've got-- SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Well, I take very seriously my job. The people of Georgia hired me to stand up for them. And this really is a critical week. KRISTEN WELKER: Ya. SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: This big ugly bill is going to strip people of their health care. It's going to rob working class people of the resources that they need. They're literally trying to take health care from children. Here's a proposal. KRISTEN WELKER: Sen-- SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: How about allow the tax cuts to expire for people making over $500,000 a year? If they did that, they wouldn't have to have these Draconian SNAP cuts and cuts on health care. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, let's talk about right now Maryland Governor Wes Moore speaking to South Carolina Democrats at a fundraiser on Friday. He gave this call to action to the party. Take a look. [START TAPE] GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Let's be clear. We can and we must condemn Donald Trump's reckless actions. But we will be foolish not to learn from his impatience. If he can do so much bad in such a small amount of time, why can't we do such good? Now is the time for us to be impatient too. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, is Governor Moore right that Democrats need to take a lesson from Donald Trump and show more urgency? SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Listen, I'll take my lessons from Martin Luther King Jr., who said 'that the time is always right to do what's right', who talked about the fierce urgency of now. And that's why I'm laser-focused on doing everything I can for the people of my state, particularly children. You're looking at somebody who grew up in public housing, the 11th of 12 children. But through good government programs, Pell Grants and low interest student loans, because of Head Start which the Republicans want to cut, you're looking at someone who's the first college graduate in his family, the 11th of 12 children who's now a United States Senator. I'll tell you what keeps me up at night. It'd be harder for me to do right now what I did as that 17-year-old kid all those years ago. That is an indictment on this moment. That's an indictment on our leadership. And what the Republicans want to do this week will take us further back in the wrong direction, which is why I'm going to do everything I can, not only to save us from this awful bill, but to put forward programs like workforce development programs so that our children can find that their wings for their dreams. I want to do everything that I can for working class people. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator Raphael Warnock, thank you for stopping by on your way to church. We really appreciate it. SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK: God bless you. Keep the faith. KRISTEN WELKER: And you. Thank you, Senator. When we come back, President Trump lashes out at the courts for blocking his agenda. His frustration boiling over at some of his own judicial appointments. The panel is next. ANNOUNCER: To learn more about the books featured on Meet the Press. Go to You'll also find new releases on history, biography, and more. NBC News receives a commission for sales made through our website. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Chief Justice and National Affairs Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell, Jonathan Martin, politics bureau chief and senior political columnist at POLITICO, former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Thanks to all of you for being here. Kelly, the first time I've gotten to announce your new role. KELLY O'DONNELL: Thank you so much. KRISTEN WELKER: Congratulations. JONATHAN MARTIN: Here, here. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. You have worn many hats here at NBC. And one of them is that you've covered the Congress as well. Here we are watching the evolution of what is now called the "Big Beautiful Bill Act." Speaker Johnson saying to his Senate Republican colleagues, "Please don't make a lot of changes." Is that realistic? What are you watching for at this point? KELLY O'DONNELL: Well, it's more than 1,000 pages. And senators will want to put their imprint on it. And Republican senators, a few, are already publicly against this. Josh Hawley of Missouri says, "It is morally wrong and politically suicidal to cut Medicaid." His state, Missouri, more than 20% of his constituents are using Medicaid and other programs that are vulnerable in this bill. So you get where he's coming from. They will want to debate this, its issues of deficits and its issues of programs. And they know they will have to run on this. And so they'll be held accountable. KRISTEN WELKER: Jonathan, Kelly lays out the complications so well. And the complications are around messaging. Senator Joni Ernst in that town hall – JONATHAN MARTIN: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: – that extraordinary moment where she's asked by one of her constituents, "Will people die because of this, because of all the changes to Medicaid?" And she says, "We all die." I mean, politically, it's somewhat problematic. JONATHAN MARTIN: Yeah. Two things from that moment, one macro, one micro. The macro being that this is the culture now of – of our politics in which you commit a gaffe like that. In a previous era, you would walk it back or just hope it would go away. The culture now, especially this sort of Trumpian ethos is, you double down. You do a sort of rhetorical middle finger. And you say, "I'm not – I'm not going to apologize." And here's the problem with that. It works for Trump. It doesn't necessarily work for everybody. And so that – that, that video that she put out A), it's not her, number one. But B) it just extends the story for 24 more hours. On the micro of the politics of this moment, I think it also highlights what is the worst part of this bill for the Republican Party which is I think even more than the tax deficit issue, throwing folks off Medicaid. It's a – it's a ready-made gift for Democratic ads in 2026. KRISTEN WELKER: You take me to my next point. Lanhee, you heard the speaker very adamantly there say, 'There are no cuts.' President Trump has said to me he's not cutting Medicaid. Is this an issue of semantics? Because the CBO says 8 million people are going to lose their health care. LANHEE CHEN: Well, I – I think it's where the policy and the politics don't agree. The policy with respect to Medicaid, there's no question that you have a fair number of issues around who's qualified. The fraud and abuse situation is real. There are questions about whether the program is effectively serving people who are on it. The politics are tough certainly for swing state Republicans. Democrats have already indicated that they want to use this as a campaign issue. So I think this is one of those where the right policy is in the bill. The politics are a little bit more tricky. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, Jeh, you heard Senator Warnock came out swinging against Medicaid – he's from the only state that actually has work requirements. Democrats don't have a lot of power because this is going to be something that Republicans do without Democrats. And yet their messaging is what they're going to be leaning into. JEH JOHNSON: So I heard you go back and forth with the speaker about CBO scoring, the deficit, the national debt. You know, with all of the efforts to fire people, lay people off, what's the point of increased efficiency if at the same time Congress is pushing through into law something that's going to enlarge the deficit? A point that needs to be stressed is that 30% of our national debt is foreign-owned. That in and of itself in my judgment is a national security issue. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, the speaker himself has called the debt and deficit a national security issue as well. I want to shift to what we're hearing from former President Biden this week, who's really speaking out for the first time since his cancer diagnosis. And of course everyone wishing him well in the face of this fight. But here is what he had to say when he was pressed on potential Democratic challengers during the 2024 election. Take a look. [BEGIN TAPE] INTERVIEWER: And there's also been a lot of discussion recently about your mental and physical capabilities while you were in office. PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: You can see that. I'm mentally incompetent, and I can't walk, and I can beat the hell out of both of them. INTERVIEWER: Do you want to reply to any of those reports and also to the fact that there are some Democrats who are now questioning whether you should have run for reelection in the first place? PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Why didn't they run against me then? Because I would've beaten them. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: He says, "Why didn't these Democrats run against me? I would've beaten them." That's a feisty former President Biden, Kelly O. KELLY O'DONNELL: That is very Joe Biden. The – the sarcasm that doesn't always translate if you're not actually seeing the moment. If you read it in print, that can be more problematic. He is fixed on the political data point that he is the only Democrat who beats Donald Trump. That is true. What he has not really moved toward is assessing that he's also a Democrat who is in charge of the party when Donald Trump came back to power. Maybe, because he's under a great deal of pressure personally and politically, he will evolve to a point where he speaks about that more directly. But for now, he is still saying he was the best positioned, and judgment is changing. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. I mean, J Mart, you have these comments against the backdrop of some potential 2028 hopefuls gathering in South Carolina. We're starting to see people dip their toe into these waters – JONATHAN MARTIN: Yeah, I've noticed that too. I know. JEH JOHNSON: It's early. Early. KELLY O'DONNELL: Lots of wet toes. JONATHAN MARTIN: Look, nobody ran against him in part because he changed the calendar personally to make South Carolina first and take away New Hampshire's tradition. But also nobody ran against him because there was a failing in the Democratic Party to speak out about the truth that was in front of their face, which is they knew he – he was going to have a challenge asking for four more years but nobody wanted to raise their hand and say it first. And I think Democrats did themselves a grave disservice to that. Just real fast, this next election is going to be the first time in 44 years there has not been a Biden or a Clinton on the ballot – KRISTEN WELKER: Wow. JONATHAN MARTIN: – on the ballot or looming over the election going back to 1984. So this is going to be a generation turn, I think, among Democrats. KRISTEN WELKER: So where do Democrats go from here, Jeh? JEH JOHNSON: The Democratic Party unfortunately is perceived by many as a party of identity politics, open borders, and political correctness. If I were in charge, I would survey as many people as possible who voted for first Bernie Sanders and then Donald Trump to find out what their issues are and what they really care about. And I think that's the key. KRISTEN WELKER: That intersection may just be the key to winning this next election. LANHEE CHEN: I – I think Jeh's really hit on something, which is: What is the affirmative message? What do you actually stand for beyond those things that people think you stand for? And I think part of the challenge is there is going to be an opportunity for fresh energy. There probably is an opportunity for fresh ideas, too, because the ideas that have been batted around frankly are - are largely retreads. And I think the Democratic Party is not going to be successful until it actually has an affirmative policy agenda, which it doesn't appear to me now that they have. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay, all right. Stay with us. We have a lot more to get to. But first, when we come back, the escalating war between the Trump administration and Harvard University. We'll delve into all of it. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The Trump administration's fight with Harvard University is escalating and is now playing out in court. A federal judge temporarily blocked President Trump's effort to ban the university from enrolling international students after Harvard refused to comply. Back in 1957, Harvard President Nathan Pusey joined Meet the Press and defended the principle of academic freedom. [START TAPE] NATHAN PUSEY: People are inclined to think that when we talk about academic freedom we are claiming some kind of privilege or license even for members of college faculties. This isn't the point at all. Academic freedom is properly viewed as a responsibility placed upon college and university faculties. Their job in society is to be critical, to raise questions, to try to find new answers, to see things in new ways. And if they are not free to pursue their researches and then under responsibility to report what they find – whatever popular opinion at the moment may be – then they don't serve the country. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: And when we come back, Elon Musk heads for the exits after 130 days serving in the Trump administration. What's next for his cost-cutting efforts? We have much more with the panel next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The panel is still with us. Kelly, let's talk about this big fight between the Trump administration and Harvard University. The Trump administration, among other things, trying to block Harvard from admitting international students. A court gave Harvard a big win at the end of the week, but this is far from over. It could go to the Supreme Court. KELLY O'DONNELL: And the Trump administration, the president in particular, seems to have a whole menu of ways it can go after Harvard. And now, he's sort of appointing himself admissions director for Harvard, talking about more than 30% of international students attend, and he thinks that's too high. So the more they ratchet up their resistance to his attempts to intrude on a private university, the more he comes up with or his administration comes up with ways to fight it. KRISTEN WELKER: And, Jeh, let me turn to you because you're actually a co-chair of the board of trustees at Columbia University. How do you see these -- JEH JOHNSON: I am. KRISTEN WELKER: – battles playing out? JEH JOHNSON: No private university should want to be involved in protracted litigation against the government or to have its federal grant money suspended. People need to understand that federal grant money to higher education is – much of it is for medical research, science research dedicated to combating cancer, diabetes, dementia. This is – this is federal grant money that benefits all Americans. And much is at stake right now. Speaking for myself – and I think I speak for Columbia and a lot of other higher ed institutions – we're committed to combating antisemitism on campus as a legal matter and as a moral imperative. I know I'm personally committed to that, as are many of my colleagues on the Columbia board. And we're going to do our absolute best to deal with this issue with or without the government. KRISTEN WELKER: Lanhee, this is – I mean, just picking up on what Jeh just said, this is really one of the defining issues of the Trump administration, this battle with higher education. LANHEE CHEN: Well, look. Institutions have talked about battling antisemitism. They've talked about promoting viewpoint diversity. I think the challenge is that the institutions actually have to put their money where their mouth is. I think they actually have to do and execute against an agenda that really promotes those values: battling antisemitism, ensuring that there's a diversity of views. I think it's one thing to say that; it's another thing to do it. And I think until institutions do more and actually demonstrate they're doing more, you're going to continue to have this pressure from the administration. JONATHAN MARTIN: The politics of bashing Harvard are pretty obvious, right? That's a win for any conservative administration. But let's talk brass tacks here. This is a competitive advantage question. If we, the U.S., are going to let the best and the brightest around the world go to Oxford or Cambridge instead of come to Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, we're giving away future advantages in technology, innovation, science, you name it. Why on earth would we do that, give away to our allies and our competitors all of these kids who are going to be writing the future of the world? KRISTEN WELKER: One -- KELLY O'DONNELL: The president talks about wanting more money to trade schools, which many people support. But that is not the place where that kind of innovation or medical advancement takes place. KRISTEN WELKER: It's one of those most extraordinary aspects of the Trump administration that we're covering right now. Another extraordinary thing that we watch is of course Elon Musk, his role, his attempts to really try to gut parts of the federal government. He had promised he would find $2 trillion in savings. He left on Friday. A lot of people noted he had a black eye. He said his five-year-old gave him that. But he didn't come close to reaching that $2 trillion. Instead, it's something like $100 million. Do Republicans see what Elon Musk did as a success, Lanhee? LANHEE CHEN: I think that he set the agenda around reducing the size of government in a way that Republicans should appreciate. Now, the actual results, that's a different issue. But the fact that we're having a conversation -- by the way, deficits and debt, I guess it's cool to talk about those things again. It hasn't been in over a decade. And I think DOGE helped to fuel that conversation in some ways. KRISTEN WELKER: Jeh, as someone who's run an agency, I mean, what's the impact here? JEH JOHNSON: You can't reduce the size of government in two months or three months. There is a smart way to try to do this. OMB develops a plan, submits it to Congress. Congress endorses it, amends it, whatever. But it's not something that could be done in a very compressed period of time. There is a smart way to try to reduce the size of government and improve efficiency. KRISTEN WELKER: JMart, one of the notable things from President Trump's farewell to Elon Musk – which did take place in the Oval Office – was he gave him a key. He said, "You're leaving, but you're going to stay close." How do you see this relationship evolving? JONATHAN MARTIN: Well, the Trump staff may change the locks to keep him out of OEOB here for the next few years. Look, I think it was largely symbolic in nature because of the very fact that if you don't touch debt service, defense and entitlement, you're not going to make any kind of a bite into the deficit. And so you're talking about discretionary spending, which maybe sounds good on paper. But, look, this is not a new story. You know, folks like John McCain talked about earmarks, famously, and going back to the golden police award. So you can fight at the margins. But if you're not talking about defense and entitlements, you're not going to make any progress. And Donald Trump has remade his party into a party, Lanhee, where you can't talk about addressing entitlements in a serious way. LANHEE CHEN: I mean, you're right. We have to address entitlements if we really want to get to the fundamental issue. But you've got to start somewhere, right? You've got to start somewhere. KRISTEN WELKER: Kelly, with the final 20 seconds that we have left, do you think that he will continue to be an advisor to President Trump? KELLY O'DONNELL: Well, Musk was like a house flipper on demo day. But now, now – he will be one phone call away. And we know the last voice in the president's ear is often influential. KRISTEN WELKER: Really great -- JONATHAN MARTIN: His money is crucial for the midterms, too, by the way. The party needs his money. KRISTEN WELKER: He'll be ready for that. All right. Guys, thank you for a great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. Make sure to tune in to NBC News tomorrow evening. My friend and colleague Tom Llamas debuts as the new anchor of Nightly News. Tom, we'll be cheering you on. And of course we'll be back next week because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.
NBC News
25-05-2025
- Health
- NBC News
Meet the Press – May 25, 2025 Fmr. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, fmr. Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy (D-R.I.), Arthur Brooks, Lori Gottlieb, Nedra Glover Tawwab and Jean Twenge
KRISTEN WELKER: This Sunday: lost and lonely. More young Americans are struggling with feelings of isolation and anxiety than ever before. FMR. SURGEON GENERAL VIVEK MURTHY: I want us to begin a conversation as a country about what I see as a profound public health threat. KRISTEN WELKER: I'll speak with the former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy who says loneliness is one of the most urgent crises of our time. FMR. SURGEON GENERAL VIVEK MURTHY: Loneliness has serious effects on our mental health and our physical health. KRISTEN WELKER: Plus: seeking solutions. As experts link social media use with increases in loneliness, anxiety and depression, is keeping kids offline the right approach? SEN. KATIE BRITT: Our kids' worsening mental health is an emergency, and it's an emergency clearly and undeniably linked to social media. KRISTEN WELKER: Former Congressman Patrick Kennedy talks with us about the current debate in Congress on how to safeguard the next generation. And: the happiness formula. ARTHUR BROOKS: If you want to be a happier person that's where to look. KRISTEN WELKER: Harvard professor and happiness expert Arthur Brooks will share some solutions to the mental health crisis. Joining me for insight and analysis are: psychotherapist and author Lori Gottlieb; psychologist and author Jean Twenge; and therapist and author Nedra Glover Tawwab. Welcome to Sunday and a special edition of Meet the Press. ANNOUNCER: From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is a special edition of Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. KRISTEN WELKER: Good Sunday morning. The mental health crisis in America is impacting young people in profound ways, and public health officials say it is an emergency. Two-thirds of Gen Z report feelings of loneliness, and half of young adults report symptoms of anxiety and depression. Youth suicide rates are climbing; it is now one of the leading causes of death in adolescents and young adults. Almost one in five young adults report rarely or never receiving the social support they need. In our super connected times, over 55 million U.S. adults report frequent loneliness. The smartphones and social media apps that connect us to the world are also accelerating the crisis. Even before the Covid-19 pandemic hit, teenage depression doubled between 2011 and 2019. Unregulated social media platforms and the rise of artificial intelligence present unique challenges for the future, and there is bipartisan concern on Capitol Hill. [START TAPE] REP. KATHY CASTOR: Almost half of U.S. teens have experienced bullying or harassment online. Between 2010 and 2019, teen depression rates doubled with teenage girls seeing the sharpest increase. In -- in 2021 almost a third of girls said they are seriously considering attempting suicide. SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN: In the physical world, there are laws against this. It is only in the virtual space that it remains the wild west, and our children can be attacked every single day, nonstop, 24/7, 365. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: This morning we will devote the full broadcast to this important and critical topic. And joining me now is former surgeon general Vivek Murthy. He is the author of the book "Together: The Healing Power Of Human Connection In a Sometimes Lonely World" which addresses what he's declared is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in America. Dr. Murthy, welcome back to Meet the Press. DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Thanks so much, Kristen. I'm so glad to be with you. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you so much for being here for this important conversation. So as surgeon general, one of your top priorities was to tackle what you called an epidemic of loneliness and isolation, especially in young people, Dr. Murthy. Why is this such an important topic to focus on? And why did you make this such an important focus when you were surgeon general? DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Well, Kristen, this issue came as a real surprise to me. I didn't start my tenure as surgeon general thinking that I was going to focus on loneliness back in 2014. But what I had found as I traveled around the country is that people were telling me stories about loneliness everywhere I went. College students on campuses, surrounded by thousands of other kids, but saying, "I don't feel like anybody knows me. I don't feel like I can be myself. I feel alone." Parents were saying this. CEOs were saying this. Members of Congress were telling me they were struggling with loneliness. Everywhere I went, this is a challenge. And as I dug into the data, two things emerged. One is that loneliness is extraordinarily common. We've got over half of kids who are saying, for example, that they struggle with loneliness. And, by the way, kids across the population struggle the most. But it's also consequential. When you struggle with loneliness and isolation, it raises your risks of depression, anxiety, and suicide. But it also increases your risk of heart disease by 29%, stroke by 31%, dementia by 50% among older adults. And the overall mortality increase that can be related to social disconnection, is comparable to the mortality impact as smoking and obesity. That's how powerful and how important loneliness is. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. And just to delve into it, you say smoking. It actually, as you say in your book, 'Together,' it's the equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day, Dr. Murthy. That's a staggering figure. Explain the science behind those numbers, those figures that you just talked about. DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Well, it turns out that our connection with one another, this is not just a nice thing to have, it's biologically an imperative for us. It's something we need for survival, just like we need food and water. And when we're deprived of social connection, it actually puts our body into a stress state. We feel like we're under threat. Now, in the short term, stress can sometimes help you, right, when you're preparing for an exam or for a presentation. But imagine chronic stress that comes from chronic loneliness. That's when it starts to increase inflammation in our body, increase our risk for heart disease, and other conditions that ultimately shorten our life. KRISTEN WELKER: And when you were surgeon general, you actually went on a listening tour all across the country, to talk to families about what they were experiencing. Why is loneliness hitting young people so hard? What did you find? DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Well, there are a few things that have been happening. One is just, over time, we had just moved around more. We changed communities, changed jobs. We tend to leave the people we know behind. We also find that, over the last half century, in our country, participation in the kind of organizations that used to bring people together, faith organizations, recreational leagues, service organizations, has all declined. But what I worry about, for young people in particular, is the impact that technology is having on their social connection. We tend to think, "Oh. Kids are on social media. That's great because they're connected to one another." But, no, we have to recognize there's a difference between the connections you have online and the connections you have in person. And as more relationships are shifted online, we're realizing that, number one, more kids are struggling with this intense culture of self-comparison online which is shredding their self-esteem. A lot of them are trying to be somebody that they're not online. And they actually don't have as many friendships in person as we all need. So you put this all together and what you see is escalating loneliness and isolation. And I'll tell you this. The people who know about this most are young people themselves because they would tell me, all the time, how lonely they were. And one student that I talked to at a college, as I was traveling the country, he said to me, he said "How are we supposed to connect with one another, when it's no longer the culture for people to talk to each other?" And I had him repeat the question because I wasn't sure I heard him right, the first time. He's saying it's no longer the culture for people to talk to each other. And I saw that on college campuses. The first college I went to, I walked into the dining hall and it was quiet. KRISTEN WELKER: Wow. DR. VIVEK MURTHY: And I remember the dining hall being really loud in college. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. DR. VIVEK MURTHY: But everyone is on their devices, their ears are plugged, you know, with their earbuds. And they're not talking to one another. KRISTEN WELKER: Wow. It's just staggering. That is a powerful anecdote. And you tell of meeting a mother, also, from Colorado whose – it's such a tragic story. Her daughter committed suicide after she was bullied online. And this is a mom who was deeply engaged in her daughter's activities online. Dr. Murthy, talk to the parents out there who hear stories like that and they are terrified but also concerned their children may be falling through the cracks. What's the message? And what are the warning signs? DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Well, listen, parents do have good reason to be worried right now. And many parents already are. The most common question I got from parents around the country was about social media. They asked, "Is this really safe for my kids?" And that was the reason I issued a surgeon general advisory on social media and youth mental health. Lori, the young mother that you mentioned in Colorado, who I met, was one of the most tragic stories that I encountered. But she did everything that you think a parent should want to do. She told her – talked to her kids about social media. She checked her daughter's phone every night, you know, before she went to bed, to understand what she was using and what she wasn't. But what she didn't know was that there were ways that her daughter could hide apps under other apps. Her daughter had multiple accounts that she didn't even know about. And she only realized after her daughter took her own life that she'd been mercilessly bullied and harassed online. And she saw just how her self-esteem had been shredded. Here's what I would tell parents. Number one, this is a journey that is difficult for any of us to make alone. And it's important for us to talk to each other, as parents, to come together and to support each other because right now a lot of parents think that everyone else has figured out and they're the only ones struggling. That is not the case. The second thing you should know, as parents, about technology and social media is delaying the use of social media for your kid as long as possible is important. And that's because the adolescent brain is not the same as an adult brain. If you look, biologically, young people's brains are in a different phase of development. They are more susceptible to social comparison, to social suggestion, their impulse control is not as well developed. And that puts them more at risk of the negative effects of social media. I would wait until, at least, after middle school. And in high school-- and this is what we're planning to do for my kids-- we're going to reassess, based on whether real safety standards have been put in place, what the data is telling us, and the maturity of our kids. But finally this, if your kids are already on social media, what do you do? I think it's important for us to create tech-free zones in their life, to protect the dimensions of a kid's life that are critical for their development, like sleep, like in-person interaction, learning, and physical activity. So that means no phones an hour before bedtime. You can get them back in the morning. To mealtimes, dedicate those to in-person, face-to-face conversation without devices. If we lead by example on this, as parents, we can do a lot to help our kids. KRISTEN WELKER: You actually, you just referenced this as surgeon general, called for warning labels to be placed on social media. And, look, social psychologist, Jonathan Haidt, he puts a number on what you were just saying. He says, "Kids should not be on social media until they're, at least, 16 years old.' It's a part of rewiring children's brains. Can you take us through the science of that? And at 16, I know you said after middle school, would you say 16 is the appropriate age? DR. VIVEK MURTHY: I think 16 is a very reasonable age for parents to consider as a threshold. And look, some kids might be very mature. Perhaps, some of them may be ready a bit earlier. Some kids actually may need more time past 16. But, I mean, 16 is a good benchmark. We know that our brain is evolving a lot during adolescence. And what we've also seen in studies is that kids who are, you know, using social media a lot, who have problematic social media use, we do see changes, both in the structure and the function of the brain. So the bottom line is these devices, these platforms, in particular, social media platforms, are having an effect on our children. And it's why what I have called on Congress to do is not only put warning labels on social media platforms so that parents and kids are aware of the risks that we see, but I've also called on Congress, even more importantly, to establish safety standards for social media platforms, so that, number one, data transparency is required. Researchers routinely say they can't get the full data about the impact of these platforms on our kids' health from the companies. But just like we did for cars a few decades ago, we'll be putting safety standards that got us seat belts, airbags, crash testing. And those have reduced the number of deaths. We've got to do the same for social media because what we're doing now, Kristen, is we're basically – it's the equivalent of putting our kids in cars with no seat belts, with no airbags, and having them drive on roads with no speed limits and no traffic lights. And that is just morally unacceptable. I think Congress has so far failed in its responsibility to protect our kids. But it's not too late. They need to step up and act now. KRISTEN WELKER: Absolutely terrifying comparison. And, Dr. Murthy, you say the way to actually keep kids off social media is to get a group of parents, a community. And I do want to talk to you about that idea, community. When you left office in January, you wrote what you call 'A Parting Prescription for America.' Not to eat less sugar, not to exercise more; it was two words. I want to put the two words up on the screen because they're powerful: Choose community. What is it, Dr. Murthy, about community, that is so powerful and important? DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Well, Kristen, over thousands of years, we evolved to be with each other. The people who went off on their own in our hunter-gatherer days and said, "You know what? I don't need anyone. I can be strong, independent, just do everything by myself," that person got eaten by a predator or they starved from an insufficient food supply. There is real strength in numbers. But I worry that in recent decades, what has happened is we've lost sight of how vital and important our communities are, as we've been pulled more into our devices. And as we can get everything delivered to our doorstep, we have less interactions with each other. But what I have found is that community really is what we all crave. It's what we need. And I know this because in the conversations that I have with people across the country, in big towns, and in small areas of the country, in rural and urban spaces, people talk about the fact that they just wish that people knew their neighbors again. They wished that we looked out for each other, that we gave each other the benefit of the doubt. Here's what community is. Community is where we know each other, where we help each other, and where we find purpose in lifting each other up. That's why relationships, purpose, and service, that is the core ingredients of community. It's also the triad of fulfillment. That's how I think of it. And I think part of the reason we are seeing so much unhappiness in our world right now is because these three elements of relationships, purpose, and service have eroded in many of our lives. And that's why I believe it's so important for us to build that back. It's why it was this focus in my parting prescription to America. And it's why going forward, long after I'm out of office, my goal is to do everything I can to help rebuild community in our country and beyond. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Really critical information, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Thank you so much for being here. DR. VIVEK MURTHY: Thanks so much, Kristen. KRISTEN WELKER: Really appreciate it. And when we come back: seeking solutions. What can policy makers do to protect the mental health of the next generation? Former Congressman Patrick Kennedy joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Joining me now is former Congressman Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island, a longtime advocate for better mental health policy. As a congressman, he co-authored the Mental Health Parity Act which forces insurance companies to treat mental health issues just like any other medical condition. His book 'Profiles in Mental Health Courage' offers inspiring accounts of Americans living with mental illness and addiction. Congressman Kennedy, welcome back to Meet the Press. PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Thank you, Kristen. It's great to be with you. KRISTEN WELKER: It is so wonderful to have you here for this really important conversation. PATRICK J. KENNEDY: We really appreciate Meet the Press taking this role of highlighting this issue and how important it is to the country. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you. I appreciate that, congressman. Well, you've been a big part of the conversation, and you've been very outspoken about your own struggles with bipolar disorder, with addiction. You just heard my conversation with the surgeon general, talking about the fact that the country has a crisis, an epidemic of loneliness. How did we get here? PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Well, obviously, I think social media is the big culprit. The key here, is how are we going to get out of it? And we need to educate our kids about the coping mechanisms and problem solving skills, and how they can emotionally regulate. We've got to make that an essential skill in our schools because, let's face it, technology's here to stay. Stress and trauma's here to stay. What we need is to give kids the ability to mediate their emotions and understand that there are actually skills that they can deploy that will help them manage their feelings. And I -- you know, my wife's a public school teacher. Ten years ago, they had STEM education: science, technology, engineering, math. The business community said, "We need this for competitiveness." I would say today for competitiveness, employers need to insist that our public education system adopt skill-building in brain health, ability for kids to learn how to manage stress because you can't have all these Gen-Zs and beyond go to work and not be able to, one, focus on their job, or to be worried because they can't manage their intrusive thoughts, right? In recovery, in my own case, I get this education from my mental health therapist, from my 12-step recovery peers. And I -- my life has been transformed as a result. But I think about all those that don't get that. And I think to myself, "What a shame that we don't make this essential in the development of our children." KRISTEN WELKER: So it should just be in the schools just like any other class or -- PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Well, you know, Kristen, I got to rededicate the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center in Fort Bragg for the Green Berets. Do you know the Green Berets have more mental health for the Green Berets than any other branch of the service? You might say, "Why do the Green Berets need it? They're the strongest fighters that we have." Because the military's figured out that they can't have our special forces go into the field and have any distracting thoughts, have any intrusive thoughts. They literally need to be able to manage those intrusive thoughts so that they don't lose focus on the mission. And that's what we need for all Americans. KRISTEN WELKER: Let's talk a little bit about your book, 'Profiles in Mental Health Courage.' Congressman, was there a common theme that you found throughout these conversations about why people were struggling with mental health issues? PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Well, the delivery system, whether it's the regulations that create 50 different state licensures for clinicians, or the telehealth, which is a patchwork quilt of what's available, or it's the million different measurements for what constitutes outcomes, we are just not organized in this country. If we're really serious about making a difference, we need to simplify the system. We need to change the reimbursement model. And, by the way, if we want good results, we have to invest in a -- what I call a prevention fund of sorts. And we know about this reinsurance and this high risk fund. So what I would like is all the payers, the state, the Feds, to put in dollars based upon the actuarial impact of these illnesses. Foster care dollars, huge because parents are addicted and they have to be taken into state custody. Criminal justice dollars, over half of that is mental health and addiction. Why aren't we putting some of those dollars in a prevention fund where we can identify those people at highest risk and invest now? Because the current insurance model only reimburses within a year. If you can't show an ROI within a year, you've lost it. We need a prevention fund that can have an ROI over five, 10 years. KRISTEN WELKER: So you're saying structural change both in the -- the medical and insurance space, but also in terms of social media, which you mentioned and, of course, the surgeon general mentioned as well, especially for young people. I want to play something, part of testimony from Ava Smithing. She shared her story in Congress about struggling with an eating disorder. And she says she was encouraged on social media. Take a look. [START TAPE] AVA SMITHING: They stored my insecurity as data and linked it to all of my accounts across the internet. They used my data to infer what other types of ads and content I might like, leading me down a pipeline from bikini advertisements, to exercise videos, to dieting tips and finally to eating disorder content. I have a very specific memory of one post titled "Ballerina Diet," suggesting that the daily intake of only a black coffee, an orange and 16 almonds would keep me thin. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: It's hard to listen to that, congressman. And there's actually a bill being reintroduced in the Senate. It's called the Kids Online Safety Act. It would require platforms to take steps to mitigate exactly what we just heard from Ava. Do you think that type of legislation would make a difference? Is that what the country needs? PATRICK J. KENNEDY: So, here's the problem. Our country is falling down on its own responsibility as stewards to our children's future. We are commercializing marijuana across the country. How in the world, with kids' anxiety rates and depression rates, does it make sense to add to the addiction crisis by having more access -- you know, access to addiction products? Then you've got sports betting. Our states are becoming addicted to the revenue of sports betting. And I can guarantee you, just like you're playing that story about that young woman who's getting targeted, we already know the algorithms for these betting companies are targeting people who are high risk. And we are gonna see a high correlation between people with gambling addiction and suicide. And so what I'm saying, Kristen, is we can't just pass these bills. We've got to stop all of these intrusive addiction-for-profit companies from taking our kids hostage. That's what they're doing. This is a fight. And we are losing the fight because we're not out there fighting for our kids to protect them from these businesses that their whole profit motive is, "How am I going to capture that consumer and lock them in as a consumer?" KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you take me to my next question because the last time Congress passed legislation that was aimed at helping kids in this space was 1998. Congressman, why has it been so hard for Congress to act, as a former member of Congress? PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Well, the power of the social media giants and their money, there's going to be a bigger settlement by Meta and all the big social media companies than even was tobacco or Purdue combined. You know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. We, as a country, have seen these companies and industries take advantage of the addiction-for-profit. Purdue, tobacco. Social media's the next big one. And unfortunately, it's going to have to be litigated. We have to go after the devastating impact that these companies are having on our kids. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, Congressman, you have overcome so much. What is your message to families who are struggling right now? What can give them hope in this moment? PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Well, first, it's community. It's what Dr. Murthy was talking about. I wouldn't be here today if it weren't for just my family, but I go to 12-step recovery every single day. I love the Zoom meetings. But frankly, it's the in-person meetings that have saved my life because I go there and I'm one with all of my friends. No matter where and what walk of life they -- whatever their political party, we all share one thing in common, and that is the need to hold onto one another for our own survival. And that supersedes everything. I often go on Fox, one of your competitors, on the marijuana thing. And my phone lights up afterwards. I can't believe how many of my colleagues who I go to meetings with are watching Fox. And you know what? It just shows. It doesn't matter our political backgrounds. When we're in recovery, helping one another is our number one priority. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. The power of community. Congressman Kennedy, thank you so much -- PATRICK J. KENNEDY: Thank you, Kristen -- KRISTEN WELKER: -- for being here. Wonderful to see you, as always. When we come back, the happiness formula. Harvard professor and happiness expert Arthur Brooks shares solutions to the mental health crisis. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Joining me now is Harvard professor Arthur Brooks who studies and teaches the science of happiness and is the author of the upcoming book The Happiness Files. Professor Brooks, welcome back to Meet the Press. ARTHUR BROOKS: Thank you, Kristen. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you so much for being here to be a part of this conversation. You just heard my past two conversations in which we talked about the epidemic of loneliness and anxiety. And with you, I want to talk about the other side of this, which is the happiness formula. You are the 'professor of happiness'. And you have developed a happiness formula. Can you lay it out for us Professor Brooks? ARTHUR BROOKS: Of course. You know, one of the biggest mistakes that people make is thinking that happiness is a feeling. And they're chasing a feeling which is not the way emotions work. Emotions don't-- they're not there to give you a good day, they're there to give you alerts to things that are opportunities and threats around thing to understand about happiness is that it's more tangible. The feelings are evidence of happiness. Actual happiness or the happiest people have a combination of three very concrete things in their lives. It's enjoyment of their life. It's satisfaction with their activities and accomplishments. And most importantly it's a sense of the meaning of their existence, the meaning of life. And that last pillar, that last macro-nutrient of happiness meaning actually lies behind the problems that we see today. When I'm looking at a large group of people, and I see a big unhappiness problem, I'm going to look for a barrier to one of those three things: enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. When I'm working with an executive or just anybody for that matter, I'm going to find a blockage. And that's what we find with people especially under 30 years old today, is a lack of a sense of the meaning of their lives. While they're looking for the meaning of their lives, they're doing all sorts of counterproductive things like scrolling on their phones, et cetera. But technology is not the root. Technology is part of the doom loop of meaning which is actually leading to the mental health crisis that we see today. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, let's talk about a book that you actually co-wrote with Oprah. It's called Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier. And you say happiness is actually something that you need to work at. What is the first step toward that happiness journey? ARTHUR BROOKS: Well, to begin with, happiness, pure happiness, is not a goal that we can reliably actually try to hit in our lives. On the contrary, we have negative emotions for a reason. We have negative experiences as part of an ordinary life. And so the first thing that I teach my students is: You can't be perfectly happy. Don't say, "I want to be happy." Say, "I want to be happier." And the way to do that is by looking, for example, at the formula that we just laid out and getting strategies and habits in your life to get more enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. KRISTEN WELKER: Is there anything that you learned from Oprah about being happy in that experience of writing the book with her? ARTHUR BROOKS: Oh, my goodness. Yes, what a wonderful friend she has become over the last few years. And what I've learned from Oprah, it's funny, because in my work I have the opportunity to work with a lot of people in public life, people with huge media personas, for example. And they're generally different in public than they are in private, necessarily. I mean, you have a private life and you have a public life. Oprah is the same person. And this is part of her formula for happiness that we can actually all learn something from. The reason that, as she sees it, she enjoys a lot of the world's earthly rewards of, you know, money and power and the admiration of millions and billions of people around the world. She sees that that has been granted to her as an opportunity to lift other people up. And as such, she has a peace about her. So on the days when I'm a little bit stressed out and anxious, sometimes I'll text Oprah. So, and it helps me, because she's the kind of person that I would like to be more like her. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it's incredible the two of you have this book that you co-wrote together. I want to ask you about something that you raise, Professor Brooks, which is this issue of technology, of social media. You heard me talking to Congressman Kennedy about it, to Dr. Murthy about it, as well. The average internet user in the United States-- I can't believe this-- will end up spending about 20 years online across the course of their adult life. It's hard to process that. Is there a way to be online and to be happy? ARTHUR BROOKS: There is. But, here is the basic formula. In any technology, not just the internet, not just-- any sort of computing or non face-to-face technology, all the stuff that we have around us, if it's a complement to your in-person relationships, it's beneficial. If it's a substitute for your in-person relationships, it's a problem. That's a lot of what Dr. Murthy was talking about. But that's the formula to think about for your kids and your own life. Is Zoom actually substituting for my ability to be with people in person? Is social media substituting for my real friends? If the answer is yes, you have a problem. On the other hand, if it's making actually your relationships richer, which means it has to be within certain bounds. You can't be doing it all day long. Then it can actually be part of a more rewarding life. And it won't turn into this doom loop where I'm bored and I'm lonely, so I turn to the internet. I turn to the apps. And that makes me more bored and lonely. I have a harder time finding the meaning of my life. And down and down it goes. That's like what Congressman Kennedy was talking about with alcohol and drugs. Alcohol and drugs are part of the doom loop in life. But you got to know why you're using, first of all. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, a profound way to think about it. In one of your columns in The Atlantic you cite a survey that suggests that more than half of young people actually say they want to be influencers. And you write that that can actually make you unhappier because to be so focused on oneself is not necessarily a healthy thing. What is your advice to young people in that space? How do you navigate that desire if you want to be an influencer versus the reality that it might not be the best thing? ARTHUR BROOKS: Well, understanding the truth is very important about this. The truth of the matter is that we have to understand ourselves as other people see us. But we have to be looking at and observing and experiencing our own lives as well. And the more that we're on our phones, the more effectively we are looking in a mirror. And there's a ton of evidence that shows that when you're looking in the mirror, you are not happy. You're less happy because precisely you're focusing on yourself. And so the mirror of it all is the biggest problem that people actually face. Being an influencer is like standing at a mirror, you know, all day long. And that's just sort of the secret, the fast path to depression and anxiety. Understanding that is the key to it. When young people actually understand what's going on in their brains, which is a lot of what I teach. I talk an awful lot about the neuroscience of these problems. And when they understand that psychology is biology, they have a lot more power. And that's one of the things we need to bring to the education for young people today. KRISTEN WELKER: You know, Professor Brooks, you also talk about faith and the fact that more and more Americans say they actually don't follow any organized religion. But you say it's not necessarily about that. That you can have faith. You can be faithful and that can be an important component to finding happiness as well. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's true. And the falling away of faith and all things like faith is a major contributor to this lack of life's meaning, as you can imagine. Now, when I talk about this with my students, I acknowledge. I'm a Catholic. It's the most important thing in my life, as a matter of fact. But really what we're talking about is transcendence away from looking in the mirror, being bigger than just you, standing in awe of the universe. And there are many things that people can actually do to get this transcendence, to get away from the tedium of the psychodrama of your own life. You know, for some people that means walking in nature or studying great music or starting a meditation practice or going back to church if that's actually what is part of your own life. But you need something. You need to transcend your ordinary life. Because if you won't, you'll be too much with yourself. And that's just not healthy. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, Professor Brooks, it's such important information, such an important part of this broader conversation. Thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate it. ARTHUR BROOKS: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for your attention to this. And we can solve this problem. We just have to do it together. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, I appreciate it very much. When we come back, our panel of experts is here with some advice about how to take on all of these mental health challenges. ANNOUNCER: To learn more about the books featured on Meet the Press, go to You'll also find new releases on history, biography and more. NBC News receives a commission for sales made through our website. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Our panel is here. Psychotherapist Lori Gottlieb, author of 'Maybe You Should Talk to Someone;' therapist Nedra Glover Tawwab, author of 'Consider This: Reflections for Finding Peace;' and Jean Twenge, psychology professor at San Diego State University and author of '10 Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World.' Thanks to all of you for being here. We really appreciate it. Jean, let me start with you because your research shows a really sharp rise in teen loneliness actually around 2012, just as smartphones, social media are taking off. Talk a little bit about why that has happened and why we are at the point where we are today. JEAN TWENGE: Yeah. I mean, that's the really stunning thing. It's not just that teens today are lonely. It's that they didn't used to be. Teen loneliness was actually trending down until about 2012, and then it just suddenly spiked upward, right at the time that people started to own smartphones, that Facebook bought Instagram, and that social media moved from optional to mandatory among teens. More and more teens started to say they felt left out, that they felt lonely. And it's not just social media. It's what social media replaced, because it's also around the same time they started to spend a lot less time with their friends in person. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it's the loneliness epidemic that we just heard Dr. Murthy talking about. Nedra, what do you see as the biggest issues posed by social media and what can parents do about it? NEDRA GLOVER TAWWAB: People are seeking connection, and they're trying to get it on social media, and they're not getting it in real life because people are dissociating in person by being on their devices. So it's not helping with loneliness, but we think it is. It's giving us a false sense of connection, so we need to disconnect there and connect in real life. And really it should be a tool to facilitate in-person connection. KRISTEN WELKER: To build on in-person connections, not to replace it. And that's what's happening in so many instances. Lori, you talk about the fact that people are doom scrolling or binge watching and that that is such a big part of the problem. How do you see this issue playing out? How deeply ingrained is it? And what can parents do? A lot of families all across the country feel pretty helpless. LORI GOTTLIEB: Yeah, they do. You know, I think part of it is that we say one thing and we do another. The phones can be so addicting not just for our kids, but for us too. And so if we're sitting at dinner, and we hear a Tweet come in, or a text come in, or something, and we get up from the table, we're saying to our kids, "Don't do that, but we're going to do that." And so I think we need to be aware that we are just as addicted to our devices as they are and that we need to pay attention and put our phones down. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, so what is – let's talk about some potential solutions. Let's put our phones down. Jean, how do you foster that? How do you encourage your kids to do that? Once they pick them up, it's pretty hard. You heard Dr. Murthy saying, "Yeah, probably 16 is the right age to go on social media." The push and pull there is that some parents say, "I also don't want my kids to be outside of conversations that are happening at school." So how do you navigate that? JEAN TWENGE: Well, I agree. Sixteen really should be the minimum age for social media. And it's very tough for parents, because right now the minimum age is set at 13. It was a compromise in the early days of the internet. Even that is not enforced. Age isn't verified -- KRISTEN WELKER: Right. JEAN TWENGE: Parental permission isn't required. So we have ten-year-olds on TikTok and Instagram. I think pretty much everybody would agree that that's not a good situation. So parents have to try to take steps to keep their kids off social media. So if you want to do that, no social media until 16 is a great rule. It's one I suggest in the book. How are you going to do that? One way, delay giving them any phone, and especially delay giving them an internet-enabled smartphone that allows social media and internet. If you feel like they need a phone, give them one that texts and calls, maybe has a few other apps but does not have social media on it. It can be a flip phone. It can be a phone designed for kids. KRISTEN WELKER: Those old-fashioned flip phones, Nedra, are looking better and better by the minute as a mom of two. I think I'm going to go out and get some of those. You know, part of this challenge that we are facing as parents, as a community right now is AI, these AI chatbots that people are going online, they're having conversations basically with computers as if they are real people. What do you make of the AI surge, and what can parents and families do about that? Do you see that as a potential harm as well? NEDRA GLOVER TAWWAB: I think AI is good for some things, like checking your grammar. But for building relationships and connection, I don't think it's good for that. We have to learn those skills in real situations. And if we have this perfect companion in AI, if they're giving us the answer that we want to hear, that's not the friction that we need to really sustain our relationships. KRISTEN WELKER: Lori, get in on this conversation about AI, because I think a lot of people are wondering how it fits into this broader space. Here we are, so concerned about social media, and this is really another aspect of it. LORI GOTTLIEB: Yeah. I like what Nedra was saying about not having friction, because we need friction. That's part of relationships. And so I think that when people are using AI to kind of validate their position and they never get another perspective, I see in therapy people come in, and they'll say, "Oh, I had this entire conversation with AI about my issue with my partner." And of course AI is going to support what that person is saying. So I think that people need to understand what it is and what it isn't. And especially with our kids, like, you're saying you don't want them to have phones until 16. We need to talk to them about, "What are you doing on your phone? What is the difference between what you do on your phone and what you do in person?" Because there's space for both. People-- someone who might not find a community out in the world, they might find it online. But then can you use that to find ways to meet people in real life? So it's not that technology is bad. It's: can we be more intentional about how we use it? KRISTEN WELKER: Jean, how do you see AI? Is it about being intentional and helping kids to navigate it, particularly if they are going online and having conversations almost to supplant friendships? JEAN TWENGE: I think that's going to be a big problem going forward. So my youngest kid is 13, so she has one of those phones designed for kids. But on the games, ads will come up, and some of the ads, a good amount of the ads that she gets are for AI boyfriends and girlfriends. And really young kids are being exposed to this. Now she can't click out and actually go sign up for one of these on her phone. But a lot of kids can. And what does that mean for their relationships going forward, that it's not a real relationship? It's going to, you know, be frictionless. It's going to say what you want it to say. And then that becomes that standard where-- how are they going to have a relationship with a real human being? KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah, to that point about, "How do you start to foster relationships," Lori, your book actually talks about loneliness and what to do about it. And just having one conversation with one person can make you feel that much less alone. What can someone do who feels so lonely they don't even know how to take that first step? LORI GOTTLIEB: Yeah. I think people think that you need a lot of people in your life to not be lonely, and that's not true. What you need is you need quality relationships, even with one or two people. And you also need these small social interactions during the day. So there's a whole body of research in the last few years that have shown that if you talk to people on the subway, you know, while waiting in line, instead of pulling out your phone, so if you look at people waiting in line somewhere or, you know, getting food, wherever you are, everyone's on their phone. No one's talking to each other. Any small interaction that you can incorporate into your life actually has shown it improves people's sense of well-being. Even doing it for a week improves your sense of well-being and decreases your sense of alienation and loneliness. KRISTEN WELKER: Nedra, what do you think works in terms of creating those connections? Again, sometimes just taking that first step. NEDRA GLOVER TAWWAB: I would say making something consistent. If you go to a coffee shop, going to the same one around the same time so you're seeing the same people. That familiarity can help you become less guarded and open to saying hello and open to building community and connection. I know that there are some people who are shy about speaking up, but I certainly think we have to do it when we're not engaged in our devices. If we think we have this connection in this community that we've built online, ask someone to come and help you with something. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. NEDRA GLOVER TAWWAB: Like a real thing. And we don't find that in these communities that we have, but we can find that in real life. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. Jean, you've obviously studied this generation. What do you think we will see moving forward? How does this conversation evolve? How does this issue evolve? JEAN TWENGE: Well, I think the danger is that we know from a lot of research the younger someone experiences depression, the more likely it is it's going to recur later in life. So I think Gen Z's going to be living with this for a long time. What encourages me is the conversations among teens, among young adults about more regulation around social media. A lot of those groups are advocating for that. Teens are having these conversations. So I talk at schools, often to high school and middle school students. And they will have these conversations with their friends of, "Hey, if I don't text you back right away, I'm not mad at you. I'm taking a break from my phone." And, "Hey, maybe let's not set up our plans on Instagram or Snapchat. Let's use texting to do that," to try to find other ways to communicate that might be healthier. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. Nedra, quick final thought from you. What gives you hope in this moment? NEDRA GLOVER TAWWAB: I think we've done this with other technologies, where we have figured out how to live with the technology in front of us. And we can do that with devices. We can do it with social media. We just have to practice some new skills. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. Lori, finally to you-- What gives you hope as you look to the future? LORI GOTTLIEB: What gives me hope is that teens are really talking about this. When there was this, you know, question of the TikTok ban, a lot of teens were saying, "That might be good. That might be good. We love our TikTok. We don't want to lose it. But at the same time, let's think about maybe whatever happens with TikTok, can we be more aware of how we're using it?" And I think the fact that they're aware that it's a problem means that they're willing to make some changes. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, thank you all so much for being here today for this really important conversation. We really appreciate it. Well, as we do every Memorial Day weekend, we pause to remember the U.S. service members who gave their lives in the past year in service to our country. Please take a moment to reflect on their sacrifice. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Forty percent of US high school students reported feeling sad or hopeless in 2023 and 20 percent had seriously considered attempting suicide. In 1999, Second Lady Tipper Gore joined Meet the Press to discuss the importance of addressing health concerns for the youngest generations. [BEGIN TAPE] TIPPER GORE: Suicide is the second leading cause of death among adolescents. When I talk to kids, what I hear from them is their concern for other kids that they know who might be headed for trouble or who are in pain, who need help but are afraid to reach out and get it. They're ashamed. Well, if I go to a mental health professional or if I go to the counselor, everyone's going to make fun of me. So that's preventing them from getting the help they need. Children that become withdrawn and isolated, they may be suffering from depression. They may attempt suicide. This can be prevented if we, as adults and children, listen to the early warning signs and take action when we know that we have an early warning sign. I think that that's the key, that we need to say to kids, "You need access to mental health help just like you need access to textbooks.' [END TAPE]
NBC News
18-05-2025
- Business
- NBC News
Meet the Press – May 18, 2025
KRISTEN WELKER: This Sunday: out of office. My exclusive interview with former Vice President Mike Pence. FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: I've never been a fan of American presidents criticizing America on foreign soil. KRISTEN WELKER: His thoughts on the second Trump administration and the direction of the Republican Party. FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: There's no question in this administration that he is surrounded, it appears to me, with people that -- that nurtured his more protectionist instincts. KRISTEN WELKER: Plus: trade tensions. President Trump returns from his trip to the Middle East amid new concerns about his trade war, as the world's largest retailer warns higher prices are on the way. JOHN DAVID RAINEY: But the level of tariffs that have been proposed is pretty challenging for all retailers, for suppliers, and -- and certainly our concern is consumers are going to feel some of that. KRISTEN WELKER: I'll talk to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. And: listening in. Audio of former President Joe Biden's interview with the special counsel investigating his handling of classified documents renews the debate over his fitness for office. FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN: Trump gets elected in November of 2017. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: 2016. FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN: '16. 2016. KRISTEN WELKER: I'll talk to Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief Washington Correspondent Andrea Mitchell; Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS Newshour; Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris; and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press. ANNOUNCER: From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. KRISTEN WELKER: Good Sunday morning. President Trump returns to Washington after his trip to the Middle East, and he is touting what he says are new critical investments in the U.S. economy. It comes as his agenda back home is facing new challenges, and as he's planning for direct phone calls with the leaders of Russia and Ukraine on Monday. Against that backdrop, I sat down with his former Vice President Mike Pence on Friday at his home in Indiana. [START TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about President Trump's first official overseas trip to the Middle East -- FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: -- this week, where he met with the newly installed president of Syria. He dropped all of the sanctions against that country despite Israel's opposition. The trip included stops in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE, but he did not stop in Israel. Sir, what message do you think President Trump's trip sent to Israel overall? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, first off, I think it was a very successful trip for the American economy. The president secured financial commitments in all three countries, including a historic contract for purchasing Boeing aircraft that'll really support American jobs. And I don't gainsay that. But, Kristen, I've never been a fan of American presidents criticizing America on foreign soil. And to have the president in Saudi Arabia questioning America's global war on terror, and describing it as nation-building and interventionist, I thought was a disservice to generations of Americans who wore the uniform and who took the fight to our enemy, you know, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. And particularly giving that speech in Saudi Arabia, where 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers hailed from, not including Osama bin Laden, I thought was unfortunate. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about another aspect of President Trump's trip. He said that he was going to accept a $400 million luxury jet from Qatar to use as a temporary Air Force One. He said he'll eventually donate that to his presidential library. Do you think President Trump should accept a military aircraft from Qatar? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, I think first we've got to remember who Qatar is. We've got a military base there. I have members of our immediate family that have deployed to the region. But Qatar has a long history of playing both sides. They support Hamas. They supported Al Qaeda. Qatar has actually financed pro-Hamas protests on American campuses across the United States. So, the very idea that we would accept an Air Force One from Qatar I think is inconsistent with our security, with our intelligence needs. And my hope is the president reconsiders it. I think if Qatar wants to make a gift to the United States, they ought to take that $400 million and plow it into infrastructure on our military base. KRISTEN WELKER: So you're saying President Trump should turn down this plane? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: I think he should. I think -- look, others have observed or there are profound issues, the potential for intelligence gathering, the need to ensure the president of the United States is safe and secure as he travels around the world and of course also there are very real constitutional issues. The Constitution prohibits public officials from accepting a present, in the words of the Constitution, a present from a foreign state. Now they may have some basis through chain of title for avoiding that, but I think it's just a bad idea, and my hope is the president will think better of it. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about an issue that you raised. President Trump's tariffs obviously have been a big theme of this second administration. President Trump says foreign countries pay for the tariffs. He says they're going to make the country rich. And yet you have said, you've called them the 'Trump Tariff Tax'. Why? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, first off, the initial reciprocal tariffs that he unveiled would be the largest peacetime tax hike on the American people in the history of this country. As I said, I'm glad he's paused that. And as we're seated here, I understand the president is going to make an offer to 150 countries. But, look, he and I have talked many times about trade. Here in Indiana, we're one of the leading exporting states in the country. What we make here, what we grow and raise here we sell around the world. I've always believed that trade means jobs. But I came to respect President Trump's willingness to use the threat of tariffs to negotiate, as we did with the new trade deal with Canada and Mexico. We renegotiated South Korea. We were well down the road of a trade agreement with Japan, with the U.K., with the EU during our time. But there's no question in this administration that he is surrounded, it appears to me, with people that nurtured his more protectionist instincts. And as the president has said to me many times, he has a sense that other countries pay tariffs when the reality is when Americans buy goods overseas, the company that imports those goods in this country pays the tariff and more often than not passes that along in higher prices to consumers. And I worry about inflation. We just heard Walmart made the announcement that they'll be raising prices in the wake of these tariffs. My view of tariffs overall is this: We ought to be aggressively negotiating for free trade with free nations. We ought to use the threat of leverage to bring down trade barriers and subsidies. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, to that point, let me ask you about the tariffs from the first term. They added some $80 billion in higher prices for Americans, increased prices on things like tires and washing machines. Why didn't you say they're a tax during the first administration? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, I – I probably did in the hallways, but the president gets to make the decision. KRISTEN WELKER: You told President Trump that directly? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, sure. But look – KRISTEN WELKER: So how did he respond? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: –when you're vice president of the United States, my view is always this: I'd favor the president with the full range of my opinion in private. And then when he made the decision, my job was to support his decision absent some higher calling or higher obligation that one has. And I – I fully supported his approach on tariffs, but I was never confused about who pays tariffs. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about the war in Ukraine. There were talks in Turkey this week between Russia and Ukraine, but none of the principals were there. President Zelenskyy wasn't there. President Putin was there. President Trump wasn't there. President Trump said the only way to get a deal is for him to meet with Putin face to face. Knowing what you know about Vladimir Putin, Mr. Vice President, do you think he will be - ever be serious about making a deal? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: It's been roughly three years since Russia launched its unprovoked, brutal invasion into Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost. At the outset of the war, I actually traveled with my wife across the border to a refugee center. Saw hundreds and hundreds of women and children of every age fleeing from the Russian invasion. I would return there a year or so back, and meet with President Zelenskyy, and hear again about the horrors and depredations of the Russian military. Look, I've – I've met Vladimir Putin. My judgment is Vladimir Putin only understands strength. And President Zelenskyy has agreed to a ceasefire, 30-day ceasefire that our European allies called for. Vladimir Putin calls a meeting that he doesn't show up for. So, I honestly think the time has come for President Trump to impose harsh sanctions on Russia and also to increase military support for Ukraine. I think those two messages, making it clear, in combination with the president's good recent dialogue with President Zelenskyy that took place at the Vatican. And in addition to the new mineral deal, which I think sent a deafening message to Moscow that America and Ukraine are here to stay, I think the time is now for sanctions against Russia, additional sanctions against Russia, Kristen, and also renewed military support for Ukraine. I think that and only that has the potential to bring Vladimir Putin to the table and achieve a just and lasting peace. KRISTEN WELKER: Last month President Trump directed the attorney general to review two people he considers to be political foes, including Chris Krebs, who's the election official who called the 2020 election the most secure in American history. Do you ever worry that President Trump will order an investigation into you for your actions on January 6? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: I – I don't worry about it. I regret some of the rearview thinking this administration's been doing for people that did their job. Some of the cancellation of security details around people like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and John Bolton I think have been regrettable. But, you know, elections are about the future. And I think the American people elected President Trump to return to the White House to focus on the future. And if I had a word with him, I'd – I'd encourage him to keep eyes forward and – and embrace the better angels of his nature in all these issues. KRISTEN WELKER: You were recently awarded the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award for your actions on January 6. President Trump pardoned nearly 1,600 people who were criminally charged in connection with their actions on January 6. You said that pardoning people who assaulted law enforcement, quote, "sent the wrong message." What message did those pardons send, sir? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Well, first let me say I was deeply humbled by the recognition that we received from the John F. Kennedy Library. President Kennedy was a hero from my youth. Still is. And to be in any way associated with his – his legacy and Americans that he wrote about in his famous book was one of the greatest honors of my life, and I'm truly grateful. But look I – I will always believe by God's grace I did my duty that day to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and see to the peaceful transfer of power. But individuals who broke into the Capitol, who assaulted police officers, I said that day and I believe to this moment should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Now I will say, Kristen, I know there were people that came into the Capitol that day that just walked through an open door, meant no harm, did no harm. Those people, every single one of them, if they were caught up in the legal system, they should have been pardoned. But the people that engaged in violence - you know, we're at the end here of Police Week in Washington, D.C. That's where the families of fallen officers come to our nation's capital every year to remember those who died in the line of duty. And the heroes on January 6 were all wearing uniforms. I mean, they held the line. They made it possible for us to secure the Capitol, reconvene the Congress, and complete our work under the Constitution the very same day. And for my part, I – I – I will always believe to have pardoned the people that assaulted police officers that day was wrong. KRISTEN WELKER: Would you ever consider running for president again? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: I – I – You know, I don't – I don't see that in my future. You know, our family's been blessed in so many ways. I mean, I'm a guy that grew up in a small town here in Indiana. I just dreamed of being the congressman from my hometown. And I got to live that dream. But the opportunity to be governor here in Indiana, to go on to be vice president of the United States was beyond anything I imagined. And I had the chance to run for president. We did that last time. But I – I will tell you from my heart, Kristen, what I feel is my calling is exactly what called me to the Republican Party in the days of Ronald Reagan. And that is that I – I want to be a voice for conservative values. I want to be a voice for the policies and liberties enshrined in the Constitution of the United States. That's what – that's what defines us as Americans. I want to be a champion of the conservative cause. And that's where I'll stay focused, and we'll let the future take care of itself. KRISTEN WELKER: So just to be very clear, do you rule out running for president ever again based on what you're saying? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: Yeah, I – I – I have no plans. I don't see it. But, as I said, we'll – we'll keep standing for everything we've always stood for, and we'll let the future take care of itself. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: We will have more of my conversation with former Vice President Pence coming up later in the broadcast. But first, when we come back, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. There are new economic warnings after the credit ratings agency, Moody's, downgraded the United States' credit rating one notch from its AAA rating. Moody's citing concerns over the nation's rising debt. It comes as President Trump's tax bill suffered a setback in Congress this past week. Joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Secretary Bessent, welcome back to Meet the Press. SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Kristen, good to see you. Thanks for having me on. KRISTEN WELKER: It's wonderful to have you on after a long foreign trip. Thank you for being here. Let's start right there with Moody's downgrading the nation's credit rating. And they do cite the debt. I want to read you a little bit of what Moody's says. It says, quote, "If the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is extended, which is our base case, it will add around $4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade." Several Republicans, Mr. Secretary, are citing similar concerns. Does the president's tax bill need to do more to address the nation's debt and deficit? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Well, Kristen, first – first of all, I – I think that Moody's is a lagging indicator. I think that's what everyone thinks of credit agencies. Larry Summers and I don't agree on everything, but he said that's when they – they downgraded the U.S. in 2011. So it's – it's a lagging indicator. And just like Sean Duffy said with our air traffic control system, we didn't get here in the – in the past 100 days. It's the Biden administration and the spending that we have – have seen over the past four years. We inherited 6.7% deficit to GDP, the highest when we weren't in a recession, not in a war. And we are determined to bring the spending down and grow the economy. KRISTEN WELKER: Fair enough. But under President Trump's first administration he added $8 trillion to the nation's debt in his first term. So there's plenty of blame to go around. Let me – SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: No, no, no, no, no. But let's review. We were in the rescue portion of Covid. The Biden – the Biden administration was in the recovery portion. And Kristen, it would've been if not for Senators Manchin and Sinema, who are no longer the – in the Democratic caucus, that it would've been $4 trillion or $5 trillion more. KRISTEN WELKER: It did include the – the tax cuts as well. But let me ask you about Walmart, this big news from Walmart. It says it will start raising prices on its consumers, Mr. Secretary, as early as this month due to the tariffs. Now, President Trump out with a very stern warning on social media saying Walmart, quote, "should eat the tariffs," adding the company made far more than expected last year. Is the president asking American companies to be less profitable? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: I – I was on the phone with Doug McMillon, the CEO of Walmart, yesterday. And Walmart is in fact, going to, as you describe it, eat some of the tariffs, that – just as they did in '18, '19, and '20. The other thing, though, that we are seeing that Doug passed along to me, that with their consumers, the single most important thing is the gasoline price. Gasoline prices have collapsed under President Trump. So we – we are seeing that. The other thing that will happen, that is a direct tax cut for consumers. Then the transportation costs are also a big input. So let's see what happens. What you're describing was Walmart's earnings call. The other thing the companies have to do, they have to give the worst case scenario so that they're not sued. So you know, I – I think overall we are seeing a decline in services, inflation, and I – and we saw inflation come down for the first time in four years. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you know, in my conversation with former Vice President Mike Pence, he says he sees tariffs as a tax. How far, Mr. Secretary, is the president, is the administration willing to go to prevent CEOs from increasing prices? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Well, I – I think what we are hearing here is tax – people are saying tax increases are inflationary that – when I was testifying before Congress last week, one of the congressmen said that. And I said, "Well, Congressman, if taxes are inflationary, let's cut taxes." So let's get this tax bill done, bring down taxes, which according to this line of thinking, should be disinflationary. KRISTEN WELKER: But the Federal Reserve has said that tariffs are inflationary. Just to be very clear, you said you called Walmart. Is that what CEOs can expect, that you, that the president, that other members of the administration will apply pressure to try to prevent them from passing on these prices to CEOs? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: I – I didn't apply any pressure. The – the – Doug and I have a very good relationship, so I just wanted to hear it from him rather than – than second, third-hand from the press. And again, as I said, this is all from their earnings call. And on an earnings call, you have to give the – the worst case scenario. Kristen, to go back to what you said, the Federal Reserve is not saying that tariffs will cause inflation. They're saying they're not sure, and that they're in wait and see mode. KRISTEN WELKER: Let's talk about the other big news that you were a part of a week ago in Switzerland, negotiating with China's officials. You and the administration lowered tariffs from the high rate of 145% to 30% for 90 days, to allow talks to continue. But President Trump had said previously, and I'm quoting from him, "China needs to make a deal with the U.S. We don't have to make a deal with them." So why did the United States back down? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Neither side backed down. Both sides realized that this, as I had said, the – was unsustainable. So we had the equivalent of an embargo, which is not what either side wanted. You know, it was this constant tit-for-tat escalation. So both sides brought the tariffs down by 115%. So for 2025, we have increased tariffs on China by 30%, they have increased them by 10% on us. We now have a mechanism in place to continue talks. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. On Friday, as a piece of this, President Trump, while he was on the foreign trip, said that countries should expect letters from you, from Secretary Lutnick, saying this is what the tariff rate is going to be. Mr. Secretary, does that effectively mean that these negotiations with other countries are over? And how high should they expect tariffs to go? Above 10%? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: This means that they're not negotiating in good faith. They are going to get a letter the – saying, "Here – here is the rate." So I would expect that everyone would come and negotiate in good faith. KRISTEN WELKER: You expect that rate, though, that you would slap on any country that you think is not negotiating in good faith to be above 10%? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Well, I think that it would be the April 2nd level. Some countries were at 10%, some were substantially higher. And the negotiating leverage that President Trump is talking about here is if you don't want to negotiate then it will spring back to the April 2nd level. KRISTEN WELKER: I have to ask you about the war in Ukraine. President Trump saying he is going to speak with President Zelensky and Putin on Monday. Former Vice President Pence told me, "It is time to impose harsh sanctions now." What say you, Mr. Secretary: is it time to impose sanctions against Russia? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Well, I think we will see the – what happens when both sides get to the table. President Trump has made it very clear that if President Putin does not negotiate in good faith that the United States will not hesitate to up the Russia sanctions along with our European partners. What I can tell you is the sanctions were very ineffective during the Biden administration because they kept them low because they were afraid of pushing up domestic oil prices. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, how long for the timeline until you move to sanctions? Obviously there's a call. But if the president doesn't feel like there's progress how much time is he going to give them? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: I – I – look, I – I'm not going to tie the president's hands in his negotiations. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you, former Vice President Mike Pence echoed several of President Trump's, quite frankly, own allies in expressing concerns about this plane that Qatar has offered to President Trump. They are saying it sends the wrong message. It sends the wrong message and raises concerns ethically, raises concerns constitutionally and about security. Why is it appropriate for the president to accept a $400 million jet from Qatar? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Well, it's not the president accepting it, it would be the United States government. And Senator Mullin said this weekend that the talks had actually begun under the Biden administration. So – but Kristen, what I can tell you is I think this is an off-ramp for many in the media not to acknowledge what an incredible trip this was. You know, President Trump has brought back trillions of investments in the United States. Every stop we made, the – the enthusiasm in – in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar, in the United Arab – Arab Emirates to invest in the United States that they want to push more and more, they have funds here. And if we go back to your initial question on the Moody's downgrade, who cares? Qatar doesn't. Saudi doesn't. UAE doesn't. They're all pushing money in. They've made ten-year investment plans. So this administration, we're doing peace deals, trade deals and tax deals. KRISTEN WELKER: And just very, very quickly, President Trump has said he plans to keep that plane in his presidential library after. But what do you say to some Republicans who argue it sends a message that the United States can be bought, or that other countries can curry favor if they offer gifts? SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: I say that the gifts are to the American people. These trillions of dollars of investments that are going to create jobs in the U.S., whether it's the UAE building this gigantic aluminum plant in Oklahoma, whether it's these data centers that Qatar is going to do, is $600 billion on its way to $1 trillion from Saudi, it all accrues to the American people. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, Secretary Bessent, I know you've had a long week traveling with the president. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. SEC. SCOTT BESSENT: Good to see you. KRISTEN WELKER: Great to see you. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Senator Murphy, welcome back to Meet the Press. SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Yeah. Thanks for having me back. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you so much for being here. SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Of course. KRISTEN WELKER: You just heard my conversation with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. We were talking about the president's tax bill. Secretary Bessent argues it will create hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth. You obviously are one of the Democrats who opposes this bill. Are Democrats standing in the way of the economic growth that Secretary Bessent was just arguing? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Well, what we're standing in the way of is the most massive transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class to the rich in the history of the country. This budget bill is an absolute disaster. It is going to kick over ten million people off of their healthcare -- Medicaid covers about a quarter of all Americans -- in order to pass along a new trillion dollar tax cut for the richest 1 percent. Nobody in this country is asking for that. And in addition, it's going to dramatically drive up the deficit. I heard the Treasury Secretary say that 'who cares about the downgrading of our credit rating from Moody's'. That is a big deal. That means that we are likely headed for a recession. That probably means higher interest rates for anybody out there who is trying to start a business or to buy a home. These guys are running the economy recklessly because all they care about is the health of the Mar-a-Lago billionaire class. They only care about their corporate friends. They are going to destroy this economy. They are going to throw millions of people off of healthcare just so that they can pass along a benefit to a small handful of very rich Americans. That is deeply unpopular. And my hope is that it won't pass-- that enough Republicans see that nobody is asking for that massive investment in only a small handful of Americans-- that they'll vote against it. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you, you raise the issue of Moody's downgrading the nation's credit rating, and of course, they do cite the debt that the nation has accrued, of course, over decades in Democratic and Republican administrations. Why didn't Democrats do more to address the debt when you all were in power? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Well, I think it's important to remember that some of the most important legislative achievements during Joe Biden's presidency were done in a way that reduced the deficit. In fact, the Inflation Reduction Act, which made massive investments in renewable energy, reduced prescription drug costs, was done in a way that drove down the deficit, not driving the deficit up. Most of the deficit that was added under Joe Biden's presidency was in those early days, when we were still recovering from the pandemic. But there's just no doubt that it was Donald Trump who added more to the deficit than any president in the history of the country. And he is on pace to do it for a second time. It's going to crater the economy. And listen, it won't have an impact on his billionaire friends. His Mar-a-Lago crowd will come out all right. But it will impact the regular people I represent in New Britain, Bristol, and Bridgeport, Connecticut. KRISTEN WELKER: Former President Biden did see $4 trillion added under his administration. I would like to talk about former President Biden. Newly released tapes from Mr. Biden's 2023 interview with Special Counsel Robert Hur show him really struggling to recall key moments, including the dates, the death of his son Beau, as well as when former President Trump, at the time, former President Trump, was elected. Take a look. [START TAPE] FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: What month did Beau die? Oh, God. May 30th. RACHEL COTTON: 2015. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 2015. FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: Was it 2015 he had died? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It was May of 2015. FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: It was 2015. BOB BAUER: Or I'm not sure the month, sir, but I think that was the year. MARC KRICKBAUM: That's right, Mr. President. FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: And what's happened in the meantime, is that -- as -- and Trump gets elected in November of 2017? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: 2016. FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: 16. 2016. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, is this audio proof that President Biden shouldn't have run for reelection? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Well, I - I don't know that that's a particular fair excerpt. That's a very emotional topic for the president. But obviously, in retrospect, the president should have gotten out of the race earlier. There's no doubt that the Democratic Party would have been better served by having the ability to have an open primary. Kamala Harris probably would have done very well in that process. But in retrospect, we lost. And so you can defend the way in which our politics played out. I mean, listen, what I -- I've said is that, you know, like anybody who reaches that stage in their life, you know, there is some level of diminishment. But I got to work with the president pretty closely in 2022, in 2023. And I saw a president who was passing legislation and helping the American people at a pretty unprecedented rate. That being said, by 2024, the American people had decided that they wanted somebody new. They wanted somebody younger. And it was a mistake. It was a mistake for Democrats to not listen to the voters earlier and set up a process that would have gotten us in a position when we could've been more competitive that fall. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you this. The new book, Original Sin, by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson, goes even further and actually details what they call a cover-up from the White House, from top aides around the president. Here's a little bit of what they have written, quote, "One senior White House aide, who left because they didn't think Biden should run again, confessed to us that 'we attempted to shield him from his own staff so many people didn't realize the extent of the decline beginning in 2023.'" Do you think some top officials in the Biden White House covered up the state of his mental health at the time? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Well, I -- I haven't read the book, and so I don't know what to say about the allegations they make. But I know that I worked with him throughout 2022 on the gun bill, which has saved, by the way, thousands of lives. He was intimately involved in those negotiations. I was in the White House in the fall of 2023 doing an hour-and-a-half long meeting on some really complicated developments in the Middle East. And I saw a president who was in control. So I -- that's my experience. But I admit that by 2024, the American public had made up their minds, right, that they wanted the Democratic Party to nominate somebody new. And it was absolutely a mistake for the party to not listen to those voters. KRISTEN WELKER: Just to be very clear, do you bear some responsibility as well? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Oh, I think we all bear responsibility. Listen, and I think, you know, we maybe didn't listen as early as we should have in part because we have immense loyalty to this man who had led this country out of a pandemic, who had been maybe the most prodigious legislator as a president-- the Inflation Reduction Act, the Infrastructure Act, the bipartisan gun bill-- in a generation. But ultimately, in retrospect, you can't defend what the Democratic Party did because we are stuck with a madman, with a corrupt president in the Oval Office. And we should have given ourselves a better chance to win. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, let me ask you about part of my conversation with Treasury Secretary Bessent in which I asked him about that $400 million jet that Qatar is offering to the president, to the United States. President Trump said it would be, quote, "stupid not to take it." What is your response to that argument, that the U.S. deserves the biggest plane and President Trump says it's actually going to ultimately save the U.S. money? SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: So why did he choose these three countries to go to for his first major foreign trip? It's not because these are our most important allies or the most important countries in the world. It's because these are the three countries willing to pay him off. Every single one of these countries is giving Trump money: the plane from Qatar, and investment in his cryptocurrency scam from the UAE, and they are asking for national security concessions in return. This is the definition of corruption: foreign governments putting money in the president's pocket and then the United States giving them national security concessions that hurt our own security. By the way, the plane is not a gift to the American people, as the secretary said. It is going directly to Donald Trump. That library will take a decade to build. And so once he leaves the White House, until the library is built, he gets to use that plane to fly around all of his billionaire friends while his policies result in millions of Americans losing their healthcare and having to pay higher costs. That is the definition of corruption. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, well, we'll watch how it all unfolds. I know Democrats are discussing various ways to potentially try to block it. Senator Murphy, thank you so much for being here. SEN. CHRIS MURPHY: Thank you. KRISTEN WELKER: I hope you'll come back soon. Appreciate it very much. When we come back, former Vice President Pence shares what his relationship is like with President Trump now. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Former Vice President Mike Pence left Washington in 2021 and ran for president against his former boss in 2024. In my conversation, I asked Mr. Pence what his relationship is like now with President Trump. [START TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: You, of course, recently saw President Trump at the funeral for former President Jimmy Carter. Do you ever talk to him? Does he ever reach out to you for any counsel at this point? FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE: You know, there were difficult days at the end of the administration. But what's not widely known is that the president and I parted very amicably, that he thanked me from the tarmac of Andrews Air Force Base and my family by name for the service we'd render to the country and to him, and we'd speak several times a month in the days after we left office. The day I went to the inauguration, the president called me. We talked for an hour about conversations I'd had with people on the platform. But what saddened me was, several months after we left office, he returned to much of the same rhetoric that he had used in the run up to that fateful day of January 6. Again, talking again about the election being stolen, suggesting that I could have had the ability to overturn the election. And that was where I just came to the conclusion that we best part ways. And I did see him at the Carter funeral and we had a warm exchange. I stood up, I shook his hand, and I said, 'Congratulations, Mr. President.' And I could tell you, he softened and said, 'Thanks, Mike.' And I congratulated the first lady as well. It was, it was a good moment. And I I pray for the president often, and I want him to be successful. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: And when we – Oh, you can see my full interview with Vice President Pence at And when we come back, President Trump's agenda meets resistance from the courts and Congress. The panel is next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Chief Washington Correspondent Andrea Mitchell; co-anchor of PBS NewsHour Amna Nawaz; Stephen Hayes, editor and CEO of The Dispatch; and Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris. Andrea, let me start with you, a lot to unpack. President Trump coming off of his first foreign trip. I discussed that to some extent with Secretary Bessent. And it comes as he's preparing for these key talks on Monday with President Putin -- ANDREA MITCHELL: Exactly. KRISTEN WELKER: – with President Zelenskyy. What are you hearing about the talks and the fallout from the trip? ANDREA MITCHELL: Well, right now the secretary of state today is meeting, along with JD Vance, the vice president, with Zelenskyy at the Vatican. In his homily, Pope Leo at his inaugural mass, called for peace in Ukraine and of course Gaza as well. But with President Trump talking to Vladimir Putin, he has never pressured Putin in any conversation that we know of. He has pressured Zelenskyy. And so we don't know what's going to come out of that. There is growing support for sanctions. You heard, of course, Secretary Bessent said that they wouldn't hesitate. And there's now Lindsey Graham says, more than 77 votes, pushing 80 votes, in the Senate, bipartisan support for that. But there were other big outcomes of this trip. He did – the opening to Syria is a big deal. The overtures to Iran possibly could be, you know, a landmark deal. But what others are talking about, I've talked to top diplomats in – among our closest allies, they're concerned that, first of all, the deals that Secretary Bessent talked about, a lot of those were negotiated under Joe Biden. Those take years to negotiate. He's taking credit, President Trump is, for them. And secondly, there was a lot of dealmaking by his sons and a lot that was being done for his own advantage. They've been very open about this. And it's frankly disturbing what they are talking – what diplomats, among our closest allies, are talking about, the normalizing about what they criticize as personal corruption that is taking place this term, not to the extent that it certainly was maybe was behind the scenes last term. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. Amna, let's talk about the deals. Because that is sort of a big overarching theme of this administration. Here you have President Trump trying to get a deal with Congress for his agenda as he's trying to get this deal to end the Russia-Ukraine war. How do you see all of this unfolding at what is really a critical juncture here? AMNA NAWAZ: Well, obviously the Russia-Ukraine deal is going to ride on whether or not Putin is acting in good faith. And we see no indications that he is so far. It's worth noting Russia launched the largest drone attack in the history of the war overnight on Ukraine. And that probably tells you everything you need to know about how Putin sees this moment. So big questions on that. On the budget deal back here, look, this is a key part of President Trump's second term agenda when it comes to cutting taxes and border funding and spending. The fact that that did not pass with Republican support in the budget committee, it's a setback for the president, obviously the concerns there are people calling for more cuts. They're concerned about exactly the things that you cited with Secretary Bessent, that this could add $4 trillion to the deficit over ten years. But the history here matters here as well, right? This has not yet reached the full chamber. President Trump was away. What I'm hearing from White House officials and others is when he gets back, he's going to get more personally involved. He's already used his social media megaphone to apply some pressure, saying Republicans need to unite around this. We've seen him call individual lawmakers, twist arms, get things across the finish lines. And Republican lawmakers haven't stood up to him yet on any of the major issues, whether it's rescinding congressionally-appropriated funds or pushing through his nominees for the Cabinet. It's hard to see if they're going to stand up to him on the one thing that matters most for his agenda. KRISTEN WELKER: Stephen, so much is riding on this bill as Amna points out. And it does come against the backdrop of Moody's downgrading the nation's credit rating, the tariff wars that continue, and you heard Secretary Bessent in response to Walmart saying they're going to have to pass some of these prices on, saying Walmart said to him they will eat some of the costs – not all of them, but some of them. I mean, talk about this moment from a political perspective for the president because there is a lot on the line here. STEPHEN HAYES: Yeah, there sure is. Look, we witnessed the death of a talking point on your show this morning and with President Trump's post yesterday on social media. The president has made the case for years, including repeatedly throughout his campaign, that foreign countries pay tariffs. That's not true. As Scott Bessent told you today, Walmart is going to eat some of the tariffs. This is something the president encouraged Walmart to do yesterday. Well, Walmart doesn't need to eat the tariffs if foreign countries are paying them. So we know that that's not true. I mean, I don't think anybody who's paid even casual attention to tariff policy in the past understood that what the president was saying wasn't true. But we've seen the death of a talking point. It'd be better if we have that conversation based on economic facts and history rather than rhetoric. KRISTEN WELKER: It's a fascinating point that he really did put a fine point on that idea that tariffs are paid ultimately here in the U.S. Ashley, I have to turn to you and turn the conversation to former President Biden, all of the revelations this week. I do want to read something that a Biden spokesperson said about that audio that we heard from his conversation with Special Counsel Hur. He said 'the audio does nothing but confirm what is already public.' Take us inside your conversations. How much does this moment hurt Democrats? ASHLEY ETIENNE: I mean, I agree with the spokesperson. I don't think it really has any impact. But this is how I see it. The real question is: Why release this tape now? And it's clear to me that President Trump released the tape because he's trying to distract from his disastrous – unprecedented – disastrous first 100 days. I mean, we've all been talking about that at the table today. So to me that's what's at play. Imagine a situation where you're so desperate, so under water on every issue that you play your best card in the first six months of an administration. So the way I see this is: This is good for Joe Biden. It's good for the Democratic Party, because we can dispense with this now and not closer to the midterm election -- KRISTEN WELKER: You think it's good for Joe Biden? ASHLEY ETIENNE: Meaning – KRISTEN WELKER: – it does raise new questions about his decision not to get out sooner as you just heard Chris Murphy say. ASHLEY ETIENNE: Well, I do believe that I think the problem with the Democratic Party right now is that we've not produced an autopsy, we've not produced an assessment of what actually happened in the election and to address this issue head on. If we were to, we can reconcile, coalesce, speak with one voice, and move past it. KRISTEN WELKER: Andrea, what are you hearing? Tough moment for potential 2028 contenders. ANDREA MITCHELL: I mean, there's – there was a lot of affection for Joe Biden, but it really has evaporated to a great extent because of how terrible the Trump presidency, in your description, Ashley, has been in the first hundred days but mostly because people remember what they saw. You know, what are you going to believe: me or your lying eyes? People saw the debate. And immediately after the debate they realized, Democrats as well as Republicans gleefully on their part, that this was a terrible mistake, that he should not have run. Whether or not he and his family and his closest advisors thought he was up to it then, they had to look forward four years, five years by the time the campaign was over and that his health would have continued to diminish. He was not aging well. He didn't look well. And people wanted a change, and they wanted a primary. And President Obama – former President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, were right about that, but nobody was willing to really push hard enough and certainly the caucuses did not move quickly. KRISTEN WELKER: Amna, I keep hearing this word "trust," that Democrats feel like they've got to rebuild trust at this point. AMNA NAWAZ: And I think that is the challenge. To Ashley's point, Democrats are going to be asked about this now on the back of the book, on the audio being released. If you had a concern that Biden was too old before, some of these things confirm that now. What I will say, the consistency that I'm hearing from some Democrats when they're asked about this, as I know you asked Senator Murphy – I've been asking senior Democrats when I speak with them too — people who were close to him who saw him regularly even in the final months of office maintain to this day they never saw anything like what they saw at the debate in private, and they also say it's not going to be an issue for them in 2028. STEPHEN HAYES: But, I mean, I'm sorry. That is crazy. That's crazy for them to say. And one of the things that this book does is it provides chapter and verse, detail after overwhelming detail that they did know and that everybody – ASHLEY ETIENNE: And here's the real question – STEPHEN HAYES: And, look, the public knew. We knew. We knew. We watched it-- KRISTEN WELKER: Andrea's saying they don't have a leader. That's part of the problem. ASHLEY ETIENNE: That is a part of the problem. But, you know, the question is: How does Joe Biden respond in the next few days as this book sort of unfolds? I really think the issue is that this runs some risk for perceptions of his legacy. There's two issues. We could either look backwards, litigate the past, or move forward. But Joe Biden's going to have to determine that. He's going to have to weigh in. If his team continues to be defensive on this issue, it's going to compound the problem for the party internally and externally. And it's also going to have implications for perceptions of his legacy -- STEPHEN HAYES: This is his legacy. This is his legacy. KRISTEN WELKER: It absolutely is. Great conversation. Thank you all for being here. We covered a lot of ground. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.
NBC News
11-05-2025
- Business
- NBC News
Meet the Press – May 11, 2025
This Sunday: up in the air. Air traffic controllers lose contact with pilots at one of the nation's busiest airports, raising new fears about aviation safety ahead of the busy summer travel season. SEC. SEAN DUFFY: And if we don't actually accomplish the mission that we're announcing today, you will see Newark's - not just in Newark, you'll see Newarks in other parts of the country. KRISTEN WELKER: How safe is it to fly right now? I'll talk to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Plus: tariff uncertainty. The president announces the framework of a trade deal with the UK and U.S. talks begin with the Chinese. The Fed warns the global trade war could trigger a higher risk of inflation and job losses. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We don't have to sign deals. They have to sign deals with us. CHAIR JEROME POWELL: Uncertainty about the path of the economy is extremely elevated. KRISTEN WELKER: But is President Trump already walking back his tough tariffs on China? I'll speak to Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. And: no regrets. Former President Biden says he believes the outcome of the 2024 race wouldn't have changed had he dropped out earlier. FORMER PRES. JOE BIDEN: I don't think it would have mattered. KRISTEN WELKER: What lessons have Democrats learned? I'll speak to Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Plus: an American pope. The world reacts to the new leader of the Catholic Church with Chicago roots. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Washington Managing Editor Carol Lee; Republican Strategist Matt Gorman; Neera Tanden, president for the Center for American Progress; and NBC Senior National Political Reporter Sahil Kapur. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press. ANNOUNCER: From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. KRISTEN WELKER: Good Sunday morning. President Trump heads to the Middle East this week on his first official foreign trip of his second term. It comes as the U.S. announced Saturday it had brokered a ceasefire between India and Pakistan. And pressure now building for a 30 day unconditional ceasefire in Ukraine, where the leaders of France, Germany, Poland, and the UK arrived in Kyiv, threatening sanctions against Moscow. [START TAPE] PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER: All of us here, together with the U.S., are calling Putin out. If he's serious about this, then he has a chance to show it. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: President Putin says Russia is ready for direct talks with Ukraine, proposing those talks begin later this week. NBC's Keir Simmons pressed President Putin's spokesperson. [START TAPE] KEIR SIMMONS: This is a rejection, isn't it, of President Trump's request for a 30-day ceasefire? DMITRY PESKOV: This is proposal by President Putin. KEIR SIMMONS: But it's a proposal to have talks before there's a ceasefire. DMITRY PESKOV: Hm? KEIR SIMMONS: There's a - it's a proposal to have talks before - DMITRY PESKOV: Of course. KEIR SIMMONS: - a lasting ceasefire. DMITRY PESKOV: Of course. In order - in order to find a way for the ceasefire. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: The world is also watching the growing uncertainty over President Trump's trade war. It comes as top U.S. and Chinese officials met for the first time this weekend in Switzerland, in what President Trump said he hopes is a 'total reset' for tariff talks. After imposing 145% tariffs on China, the president posted ahead of the meeting, '80% tariff on China seems right! Up to Scott B.' That's of course a reference to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Yet in the Oval Office this week, President Trump showed no willingness to negotiate lower tariffs with China. [START TAPE] REPORTER: China says in order to have substantive negotiations, you have to bring down your 145% tariffs. Are you open to pulling back your tariffs in order to bring China to the negotiating table? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: President Trump announced this week the U.S. and the UK had reached the first framework for a trade deal of his administration. [START TAPE] PRES. DONALD TRUMP: The deal includes billions of dollars of increased market access for American exports, especially in agriculture, dramatically increasing access for American beef, ethanol, and virtually all the products produced by our great farmers. PRIME MINISTER KEIR STARMER: This is going to boost trade between and across our countries. It's going to not only protect jobs, but create jobs, opening market access. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: But trade deals with other nations are still far from certain as the Federal Reserve Chair Jermome Powell is warning that President Trump's tariffs could lead to higher inflation and job losses. [START TAPE] JEROME POWELL: If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced are sustained, they are likely to - to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Meanwhile, as the White House faces growing challenges in the courts over its mass deportation plans, Stephen Miller, a top Trump advisor said on Friday that the administration is actively looking to suspend Habeas Corpus for undocumented immigrants - that's due process protections that allow them to challenge their detentions in court. [START TAPE] STEPHEN MILLER: Well the Constitution is clear, and that of course is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So to say that is an option we're looking at. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: And joining me now is the Senate Majority Whip, Republican Senator John Barrasso of Wyoming. Senator Barrasso, welcome back to Meet the Press. SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Oh, good morning, and Happy Mother's Day to you, and to all the mothers who are watching today. KRISTEN WELKER: Ah, thank you so much, Senator Barrasso, I really appreciate it, and thank you so much for being here. I do want to start on Ukraine. President Putin saying that he is interested in having direct talks with Ukraine later this week. Of course, that comes after President Trump and European leaders said that they want to see an unconditional 30-day ceasefire, and if not, threaten to impose sanctions. Do you believe that President Putin's offer is a rejection of President Trump's proposal, Senator? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Well, what we're seeing here is America's strength and leadership under President Trump, and it's so wonderful to see the European nations step up to join President Trump in this show of strength to Putin. The killing needs to stop. And I think the 30-day ceasefire is something that Putin needs to accept. Look, a longstanding peace in that part of the world between Ukraine and Russia, that's verifiable, is going to be good for Ukraine, Russia, Europe, and the United States. And we wouldn't be in this position if we'd had a strong leader previously. Joe Biden did nothing to deter Putin from invading, and didn't give Ukraine the weapons that they needed when they needed them most. And the Senate is ready to stand behind President Trump, with him. We have 70 Senators who have committed in a bipartisan piece of legislation to really go after Russia in a punishing way with devastating sanctions on anybody who buys oil, gas, or uranium from Russia, 500% tariffs. And their number one and number two customers are China and India. But there are also countries in Europe who are buying energy from Russia. Putin understands strength, not statements. It's time to end the war. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, we'll see how that unfolds. It's obviously an incredibly dynamic situation. I do want to move onto another incredibly dynamic situation. Of course, these talks about tariffs. President Trump seemed optimistic about the ongoing trade talks with China. He called the tariff talks a, quote, "total reset." Of course, his Treasury Secretary leading those talks with his Chinese counterpart. You've been incredibly supportive of President Trump's high tariffs against China. You said that they're a way to stand up to China. Senator, how confident are you that the U.S. can get a fair deal with China? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Well, first there was the British announcement this week. And in Wyoming where beef is such a big part of our economy, this was a big deal. We're all for it. And I think many other discussions with other countries are going to go into that. I'm happy to see President Trump standing up to China. And look, here we are a week after his interview with you, and we are actively engaged in negotiations with China. President Trump learned in his first term that you can't trust China. China's economy is weak. They need us, they need our markets. But it's been a one-way street. We need to make sure that their markets are open to us. What we have seen during COVID is that we were dangerously dependent on China for critical minerals, critical medicines. We said never again can we allow that to happen. We know that China has taken advantage of the United States, probably taken more jobs and money from us by stealing our trade secrets than all other countries combined. They use it to get stronger as a nation, to spy on us. I think President Trump is doing the right thing, standing up for American workers and American jobs. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about some of the messaging, though. Because as you know, tariffs have already started to increase prices on some goods, including car seats, strollers, work tools. I want you to listen to a part of my interview with President Trump when he talked about what this could mean for supplies. Take a listen. [START TAPE] PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm just saying they don't need to have 30 dolls, they can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils, they can have five. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, what do you say to people who hear those words and feel like the President is telling them to ration their goods? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Well, the President, I think, is very effective at using the bully pulpit. And he is using it, I think, to show strength and leadership of America. A week ago you would've never foreseen the discussions going on in Switzerland this week between our trade representative, our Secretary of Treasury, and China. We wouldn't have foreseen the deal with Great Britain. We wouldn't have seen the call for the ceasefire, and Putin agreeing to have peace talks. The President is very effective at using the bully pulpit. And I've been traveling around Wyoming, been in four communities this weekend. What people are concerned about here at home is the fact- and they're happy about is that the price of gasoline is $0.50 cheaper a gallon now that it was at graduation time last year, $10 cheaper to fill up their truck. That's what the American people are concerned about: their own pocketbooks. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, I know you were talking about lower prices during the Biden administration. You expressed real concerns that prices had increased at stores like the Dollar Tree, for example, which you talked about how important a store like that is to Wyoming, to rural communities in particular. And now the Dollar Tree says that the tariffs could actually push them to raise prices again, and that they may not be able to stock some of their goods. What do you say, Senator, to the people of Wyoming who hear that, who rely on stores like the Dollar Store, and they're worried? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Well, I travel around Wyoming. People in Wyoming are very happy with the President and what he's doing to help our economy. Tariffs are just one tool as part of our comprehensive economic plan. We're trying to get that passed in the very near future in Congress, focused on both the safety and the prosperity of the American people. We are focused on lowering prices, raising wages, and bringing jobs back to America. And that's our focus right now in Congress. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you took me exactly to my next question, because I want to talk about the President's tax bill. In order to get some of the savings needed to pass it, President Trump floated the idea of increasing taxes on the highest income earners, those making more than $2.5 million. He also acknowledged the politics are quite thorny. But Senator, would you support that, increasing taxes on the highest income earners? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: Well, I'm a conservative and I don't want to increase taxes on anybody. What you do know is that the Democrats, if we don't get this bill passed, they're going to raise taxes by $4 trillion on the American people. It will hit every working family in America with higher taxes. And you know, 84% of Americans don't like what the Democrats are proposing. Our goal is to keep more money in people's pockets. So you go to the store, pay the rent, save for retirement. That's what our focus is - KRISTEN WELKER: Senator - SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: - lower costs and higher wages. KRISTEN WELKER: Just to be very clear, yes or no, you are not ruling out the possibility of increasing taxes on the highest income earners? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: I oppose raising taxes on anyone - KRISTEN WELKER: Do you rule it out? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO - and the Democrats want to raise $4 trillion in taxes on everyone. KRISTEN WELKER: But do you rule it out, Senator? Do you rule it out? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: We're in the - I am against raising taxes on anyone. We're working through the bill through the process. It's going through the House. We're ironing out the details right now. We're going to get a bill passed and signed by the president that's going to put more money in people's pockets, and give them the certainty that taxes aren't going to go up. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Finally, Senator, I want to talk about something that one of President Trump's top aides, Stephen Miller, said this week. He said the administration is 'actively looking' at suspending habeas corpus. Just for our audience, that's the right to challenge a person's detention by the government. This would be a part of the broader efforts to speed up their deportation policies. The Constitution says that habeas corpus may not be suspended, quote, "Unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion." Would you vote to suspend habeas corpus, since the power does ultimately lie with Congress? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: The President has said he will follow the law. The President says if he disagrees with the law that he will appeal those things. The President was elected and he won every one of the battleground states on promising to secure the border and bring safety back to our communities. That's exactly what he is doing. People do not want to live with MS-13 gang members in their communities. The Democrats lost the election because they opened the borders to ten million illegal immigrants, including members of criminal cartels, drug dealers, gang members. That's what the election was about. And the President is now seeing radical district judges using their courts to set national standards, making it harder for the President to deport individuals, criminals, and I stand with the President. KRISTEN WELKER: And yet, Senator, just to put a fine point on it, so I want to know what you would do. Would you vote to suspend habeas corpus if this were brought before Congress? Ultimately, this power lies with Congress. SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: The President said he is going to follow the law. He was on with you last week. He said he has great respect for the Supreme Court. He said he expects the Attorney General to do the right thing. And I expect that the President will. KRISTEN WELKER: Can you just give me a yes or no, what you would do, though? Would you support suspending habeas corpus? SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: I don't believe this is going to come to Congress. What I believe is the President is going to follow the law. He has said it repeatedly. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator Barrasso, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it, and appreciate your Mother's Day wishes as well. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and thank you. And when we come back - SEN. JOHN BARRASSO: You, too. Thank you. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you, Senator. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Kristen, and Happy Mother's Day. KRISTEN WELKER: Happy Mother's Day to you. Thank you for spending part of your Mother's Day with us, we really appreciate it. I do want to start on the big news of the day. Of course, there are these trade talks underway in Geneva, Switzerland. And – the US, of course, has argued that part of the goal here is to stem the flow of fentanyl. You, in the past, have supported targeted tariffs, and I wonder if in fact, at the end of the day, these tariffs do accomplish stemming the flow of fentanyl and leveling the playing field with China, will you think that the Trump tariffs are a success? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Obviously, I'd like to see less fentanyl come into our country and that should be on the table for discussion. But the way this has been handled from the very beginning, Kristen – and the American people know it – chaos is up, corruption is up and costs are up. Just ask any mom today, on Mother's Day, when they're out trying to get a stroller. They're up like 25%. This is real. I listen to my colleague from Wyoming, who I respect very much, but I'm thinking, 'Let's get real here.' Supply chain problems for small businesses. They've lost 300,000 jobs in small businesses in just the first few months of this president's presidency. Only 37% of Americans think he's handling the economy right, and he has the lowest poll numbers of any president since polling started in the first 100 days. That's because Americans don't want to hear all this talking points. They know what's really happening in their lives, like a woman named Beth Benike, who owns a store called Busy Baby. She sells online, and her business has been decimated despite being entrepreneur of the year in my state because of how they have handled China, how they have been handling countries all over the world. Sure, I'm glad they're talking, but they have assessed 10% to 25% tariffs on our allies, the very people that we would need, our friends and allies, in order to deal with China. So to me, they've been approaching this all upside-down. Targeted tariffs, yes, but they should be working within trade agreements like the Canada, Mexico trade agreement with the U.S. to strengthen that instead of these across the board tariff taxes on all Americans and now a baby tax. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, let me ask you about another part of my conversation, as you say, with your colleague, John Barrasso. I asked him about Stephen Miller coming out saying the administration is looking into the possibility of suspending habeas corpus. As I noted, the Constitution says that is a right that lies with Congress. What, if anything, will you do if the Trump administration does move forward to try to suspend habeas corpus? Do you believe you have any recourse? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: I listened to the interview – that – the good interview you did with the president last week and I think we start with that. When you ask him, "Do you respect the Constitution? Will you follow the Constitution?" He says, "I don't know. I'll have to ask a lawyer." He takes an oath to preserve and protect and defend the Constitution before the American people. And in that Constitution there is the right of habeas corpus. And as you point out, only the Congress can reverse it. Even conservative commentators have said that. But to me, you know what? That isn't really the issue. The issue is that Stephen Miller brings that up on a Friday, just to throw it out there. You heard the reaction of John Barrasso. This is not what they're talking about in Congress. Why is he doing that? So you ask me about it on a Sunday show. I'm telling you right now, he's doing it because they don't want to focus on what's really in front of them and that they have created havoc in our economy, economy that was improving, and now we have people out there scared to death that they're not going to be able to get their social security because people aren't working there to answer their calls. They're not going to be able to get their Medicaid and – or be able to have their mom in assisted living. And yeah, their small businesses are folding. That's what's happening right now, and they don't want to deal with it so they keep throwing out these things just so we all talk about them for four days. And I am, frankly, tired of it. Because no, they're not going to reverse habeas corpus in the Congress. That's not going to happen. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, Senator, you talk about the Constitution. Some of your colleagues, Senator Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, for example, says the United States is in a constitutional crisis right now. You have stopped short of saying that in recent interviews. Let me ask you now, do you think the United States is in a constitutional crisis? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: I've made very clear that we are heading closer to one. But the reason we're not in a constitutional crisis like we have been at any moment, other moments in our country, like, say, the Civil War, when the states were actually dividing and seceding – we are not in a constitutional crisis because of the courts of this country. Over 100 of them, including multiple Trump-appointed judges, have stood up and said, 'Hey, this is unconstitutional. You can't steal people's private data in Social Security, Elon Musk. You cannot freeze funds for medical research that a Democratic and Republican Congress have already allocated for life saving cancer trials.' That's what's been going on right now. It is a stress test on our Constitution, that's for sure. And the second thing that I'd like to see happen more, since we have three co-equal branches of government, is that the rubber stamp Republicans in Congress would actually stand up and say, 'You know what? These – this tariff tax of $4,000 per family is not good for my constituents.' They could actually take back their power and say no to this president instead of rubber stamping every single thing he does. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, let me get your reaction to what we heard from former President Biden who spoke out this week for the first time since leaving office. Here he is talking about his exit from the 2024 race. Take a look. [BEGIN TAPE] NICK ROBINSON: Should you have withdrawn earlier, given someone else a bigger chance? FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN: I – I don't – I don't think it would have mattered. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, would the party have had a better chance of winning in 2024 had President Biden dropped out sooner? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: You know, everything we look at in a rear-view mirror after you lose an election. Yes, we would have been served better by a primary. But we are where we are. We're not on the History Channel right now. And I believe that President Biden can come out and speak and do interviews whenever he wants, but I will say this: we're not on the History Channel. And our Republican colleagues, instead of dealing with where we are now, think they're in some kind of a – of a way back zone, that they can go in some kind of time – go bring time backwards and blame everything on Joe Biden. Donald Trump is the president right now, and we have to deal with helping the American people. My party, we want to focus on lowering costs, on finding new ways to build more housing and get more affordable energy, on really working with our entrepreneurs all over the country to seize on this moment that we have with everything from mapping the human genome to AI to actually expanding more small businesses, not retracting them, like this president is doing. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator – SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: So I'm not interested in going backwards in time. I'm interested in going forward. KRISTEN WELKER: One more because former President Biden did do a series of interviews this week. He was asked whether he was surprised that Vice President Harris lost. Here's his response there. [BEGIN TAPE] FMR. PRES. JOE BIDEN: I wasn't surprised, not because I didn't think the Vice President's a qualified person to be president. She is. She's qualified to be president of the United States of America. But I was surprised – I – I wasn't surprised because they went the route of the sexist – the sexist route of the whole 'This is a woman, she's this, she's that.' [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, do you worry when you hear that, that the lesson that Democrats will take from the 2024 election is that they shouldn't put a woman at the top of the ticket? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: I hope not. You have seen women run other countries quite well. Angela Merkel comes to mind in Germany. And you've also seen women in the U.S., incredible mayors, incredible governors. I look in the Senate for Democrats in the last election. Three of the four races where we beat the presidential ticket were women running in Michigan, women running in Nevada, women running in Wisconsin. I mean, this happened, so I just – I don't think that's a lesson to learn. I know it's not easy running as a woman. If it was, we could play the game 'Pick your favorite woman president.' You can't. But I think the president understands there's been sexism, President Biden does. But to me, I just want to move forward, and we've got incredible candidates across the board – KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: – are running at all levels of government. So let's work on helping the American people, instead of looking backwards. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator – SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Instead of looking at what happened years ago, I want to look at the now, and people need our help. KRISTEN WELKER: Let's look forward. I know you know how tough it is to run for president, because you've done it before. Would you rule out running again, Senator? Yes or no? We're out of time. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: I am focused on my job right now. I'm third in leadership in the Senate, and we have a lot to do, and that means making sure people have got their Medicaid, their Social Security and taking on these Trump tariffs that are hurting the American people and our economy and not helping small businesses. I want a better America, and I just don't think that's how we're going to get there with this president. KRISTEN WELKER: Alright. I don't hear you ruling it out. Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much for joining and Happy Mother's Day again – SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Kristen. It's great to be on. Happy Mother's Day. KRISTEN WELKER: Happy Mother's Day. Enjoy the rest of your day. We really appreciate you joining us on Mother's Day. When we come back, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy joins me as concerns grow over safety in the skies. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. At one of the nation's busiest airports, planes have lost contact with air traffic control multiple times since August. Early Friday morning, the air traffic controllers for Newark lost radar displays for 90-seconds. [BEGIN TAPE] "Our scopes just went black again. If you care about this, contact the airline and try to get some pressure for them to fix this stuff.' [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: The outages are raising concerns about airline safety across the country ahead of the busy summer travel season. I sat down with transportation secretary Sean Duffy on Friday. KRISTEN WELKER: Joining me now is the Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy. Secretary Duffy, welcome back to Meet the Press. SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Thank you so much. Good to be with you. Thanks for having me. KRISTEN WELKER: It is wonderful to have you here in person. I have to start with the latest out of Newark Airport, where air traffic controllers had another brief radio and radar outage. This happened early Friday morning. This is, of course, on top of losing contact with pilots multiple times since August. Mr. Secretary, what can you tell us about this latest incident, and why does this keep happening? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So, I'll tell you – listen, the system is old, right? This is a system that's what — 25 at best, sometimes 50 years old. The – the Congress and the country haven't paid attention to it, right? They expect it to work. And so now I think the – the lights are blinking, the sirens are turning, and they're saying, 'Listen, we have to fix this,' because what you see in Newark is going to happen in other – in other places across the country. It has to be fixed, and so what we're having is some telecom issues, but we're also having some glitches in our software. As the information comes in, it's overloading some of our lines, and the system goes down. So I'll just tell you specifically in Newark, we believe we're going to have it up and running in short order. We're going to be able to fix that glitch. And we feel a little more comfortable about our primary line that gets the data in, on – on – on radar, and our redundant line is up and working as well. KRISTEN WELKER: Big picture, Mr. Secretary, is it safe to fly in and out of Newark airport right now? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: It is. So that's — I fly out of Newark all the time. My family flies out of Newark. And just when – when – when we saw these two incidents, when – when we have issues, there are policies and procedures in place for controllers and for pilots. They know what to do. It is not ideal, by any stretch, but they – they do implement those procedures, and they stay away from each other, and they – and we vacate the airspace. And, again, we have to fix it, though. This is – this is an American issue, and – and it's going to be an American congressional priority, I think, in this coming year, to get us the money to – to do the three or four-year build that it's going to take to get this completed. KRISTEN WELKER: And I want to talk about the overhaul that you – SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: – have announced this week. But before we get there, do you need to scale back flights coming in and out of Newark while you are addressing these glitches, these problems that are so potentially dangerous? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: One hundred percent. So we actually have brought down the number of airplanes that come in and leave Newark because, listen, our mission is safety. And so – yeah, I hate delays. I hate cancellations. And I hate families who come with little kids that are sitting there for four hours. I've done that myself on occasion. It's hard. But I want you to get to where you're traveling. And if that means slowing down flights into Newark, we slow them down to make sure we can do it safely. We lost a few controllers who were stressed out by the first connectivity that we lost last week. And so we have less controllers working the Newark airspace right now. And, you know, we're having these – these glitches in the system. So we slow it down and keep people safe. That's what we do. KRISTEN WELKER: How long will these delays and these cancellations last? As you say, this is incredibly challenging for families, particularly as we are approaching the summer travel season. SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So what we want is we – we want to have a number of flights that if you – if you book your flight, you know it's going to fly, right? That's – that is the priority. So you don't get to the airport, wait four hours, and then – and then get delayed. So I think, you know, we're going to have – you know, in the next several weeks we're going to have this reduced capacity at Newark. I'm convening a meeting of all the airlines that serve Newark, get them to agree on how they're going to reduce the capacity, so you book, you fly. We are building a new line that goes directly from Newark to the Philly TRACON, which controls the New York airspace. What happens now is it goes from Newark to N90, which is where it used to be controlled, and then down to Philly. That doesn't make sense. We're going to have a direct line there. KRISTEN WELKER: When will that be completed? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So, listen, it's – it's a long distance, so we think by the end of the summer it should be completed. KRISTEN WELKER: And when you say you are going to decrease the number of flights, do you have a percentage? 10%? 20%? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So for the percent, I don't – I don't know. It's going to fluctuate too, so in the – in the morning, in early afternoon, we're going to have more capacity. As those international flights come in in the afternoon, we slow it down a little bit more. KRISTEN WELKER: And you talked about the fact that this might not be confined to Newark. Are there other airports that you are concerned about right now, Mr. Secretary? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: No, I'm controlled about the – I'm concerned about the whole airspace, right? The equipment that we use, much of it we can't buy parts for new. We have to go on eBay and buy parts if one part goes down. You're dealing with really old equipment. We're dealing with copper wires, not fiber, not high-speed fiber. And so this is – this is concerning. Is it safe? Yes, we have redundancies, multiple redundancies in place to keep you safe when you fly. But we should also recognize we're seeing – we're seeing stress on an old network, and it's time to fix it. KRISTEN WELKER: Bottom line, is it safe to fly in the United States right now? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: We are – listen, we are the safest airspace, for sure, and traveling by air is way safer than any other mode of transportation, which is why I take it, my family takes it. But again, that doesn't mean you don't look over the horizon and say, "Hey, if there — if there is a major outage, could that be a risk to life?" Of course it could be, which is why we fix it, which is why – you know, listen. This is what I think, is someone should have seen that there were 80 near misses at the DCA airspace, right? Someone should have seen it and stopped that cross traffic. I need to look and say, "Well, what is the other risks that exist in the airspace?" And I should see it, and I should fix it. And that's what I'm doing here. Before you lose life, I want to fix it so we preserve life and – and underscore safety. KRISTEN WELKER: Since you bring up DCA, Reagan National Airport, I do have to ask you. There was another close call – SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: – at Reagan National Airport with an army Black Hawk helicopter. Of course this comes after that deadly crash in January. Mr. Secretary, should all military helicopter traffic be permanently halted from Reagan? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So I wouldn't say all, I – listen, I think there are some training missions that have to fly. But should they fly, you know, when there's maximum traffic coming into – into DCA? No. The president, the vice president will fly through the space. But what I want to make sure is if someone's flying out of the Pentagon, if they're VIPs, they truly are VIPs. And I think we should know: Who are the VIPs that fly? What training missions happen? Because it's a really busy airspace, and we want to limit those helicopters in the air, especially when we're flying during the day in D.C., in one of the busiest airspaces in the country. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah, absolutely. So you did announce this overhaul of outdated air traffic control systems. Will anything in your plan address these immediate issues? Because your plan costs billions of dollars, needs congressional approval, and could take years to implement, right? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So the problem we have is you can't snap your fingers and fix it, right? It takes time to build the infrastructure. And it's – I say it's going to be three to four years to build it all, but we're going to focus on Newark first, so we're going to start to see Newark be far – far more resilient in the near term. But air traffic controllers, we're 3,000 short on air traffic control. I can't snap my fingers and bring in these highly-skilled air traffic controllers. All of this is going to take time. So the key here is we have to start. We have to begin the process of fixing the system. I can't say in two weeks I can have it fixed. That's not the space that we deal with. But I'm going to tell you, we are going to begin, and, you know, in the – in the months and years ahead, we're going to see real results. KRISTEN WELKER: You get – take me to my next question because the mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers is actually 56 years old. But as you're indicating, it can take years to train an air traffic controller. Will you ask Congress to raise the mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So Congress has given me the authority to extend the retirement age for air traffic controllers from – from 56 to 61. But that's not the problem. KRISTEN WELKER: Will you do it, though, Mr. Secretary? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Oh, a hundred percent. KRISTEN WELKER: You're going to do it? Okay. SEC. SEAN DUFFY: I've already told the union I'll do that. But here's the issue. So air traffic controllers, after 25 years of service, can retire. So many of them retire at 50 years old, well before that 56-year mandatory retirement. What I've done, I said, "Hey, listen. These are the best controllers we have in the airspace. Let's give them a bonus. I'm going to give them a 20% upfront bonus to stay on the job. Don't retire. Keep serving your country.' And these are the best guys. And so if we can keep more of those experienced air traffic controllers from retiring, and we're supercharging more young people into our academy – and, by the way, that's – these are not overnight fixes. It's going to take them one to three years to get trained up. But as we go up, you know, one, two years, older guys on the job, younger guys coming in, men and women, and we can make up that 3,000-person difference. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you because as you are dealing with this crisis, Elon Musk and DOGE, as you know, have been making cuts at the FAA. And I think a lot of people are wondering, "Have these cuts made this situation worse? Have they increased the challenges and the potential safety concerns?" SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Yeah, that's – that's a great question. So in the safety mission of the FAA, like the air traffic controllers, no one was cut. We actually have staffed up. We've hired more air traffic controllers during this time. There were – there were probationary workers that were let go. Those are employees who were there less than a year and less – and, again, we excluded the safety positions. Most of them have come back. So, again, to say a department – the FAA has 46,000 employees. And if you lost 350, is this affecting our safety mission? There's a lot of things the FAA does. But for us, safety is key. So, no, we've retained all those safety positions. KRISTEN WELKER: You're saying some were fired, some were brought back. People will hear that and think it sounds a little bit chaotic. I guess the bottom line is – SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Okay, listen – KRISTEN WELKER: – did Elon Musk ask you to cut air traffic controllers directly? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So, listen, we – we were having a conversation about, "Who do we preserve?" And, again, I wanted in those probationary employees to preserve air traffic controllers. We went back and forth, and Elon agreed, the president agreed. Of course you want to keep air traffic controllers. We're trying to hire more of them. But – but I think the key is, "Can your government be more efficient?" We've had a massive expansion of government. You can actually be more efficient and still accomplish the mission of safety, which is what I think we can do. And are – actually, we are doing that. KRISTEN WELKER: Did – did Elon Musk, though, initially ask you to cut air traffic controllers – SEC. SEAN DUFFY: No. KRISTEN WELKER: – and did you dispute that? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: No. KRISTEN WELKER: Did you have a disagreement with him about that? SEC. SEAN DUFFY: So, Elon and I get along really well. He never called me and said, "Cut air traffic control." He would never do that. This was a broader conversation about what positions are going to be preserved, right? So if we're going to let probationary employees go, again, they've – they're new employees. They just were hired on. Some might have been there for a month, some of them ten months. It was the new employees that we were going to let go. Many of them have come back. But this is not the institutional knowledge of the FAA that's being let go. Elon Musk understands the importance of the airspace and the need to have good controllers. Actually, SpaceX launches through the airspace and the FAA. We want good controllers that know the airspace to navigate all the issues that come up. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Secretary Duffy, I know it's been a very busy week for you. Thank you so much for joining us. SEC. SEAN DUFFY: Thank you for having me on again. KRISTEN WELKER: When we come back, an American pope making history. [BEGIN TAPE] POPE LEO XIV: You have called me to carry that cross and to be blessed with that mission, and I know I can rely on each and every one of you to walk with me as we continue as a church, as a community of friends of Jesus, as believers, to announce the good news, to announce the gospel. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. That was Pope Leo XIV delivering his first mass as the newly elected head of the Catholic Church. He is the first American to hold that title. The Chicago native is apparently a White Sox fan. 40 years ago our own Tim Russert met another Pope, Saint John Paul II. After his death in 2005, Tim shared this personal memory. [BEGIN TAPE] TIM RUSSERT: This morning permit me a personal memory as a Catholic layman and a father. Easter week 1985, NBC news and the TODAY show spent an historic week at the Vatican. The next year my family returned. The Pope blessed the mom, then the dad, then his undivided attention on our baby Luke. He hugged him, then kissed his forehead, saying all the while, "Very nice, very nice, very nice." Then that smile. Luke was truly mesmerized by this most holy man. That moment, that blessing will be with us forever. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: And when we come back, former President Biden goes on defense over his 2024 campaign. The panel is next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Washington Managing Editor Carol Lee;NBC Senior National Political Reporter Sahil Kapur; Neera Tanden, president for the Center for American Progress; and Republican strategist, Matt Gorman. Happy Mother's Day, all. Carol, thank you for being here. Let's talk about the fact that President Trump's about to set off for his first official foreign trip. Comes as he's grappling with all of these issues on the world stage and as you have new reporting about potential strains with his relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu. CAROL LEE: Yeah, that's right. The president's going to go to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. And this is a trip that's going to focus on the economy. You'll see announcements about investments in the U.S., trade, arms deals, those sorts of things. But when it comes - when you step back and look at the broader world stage, the president's bigger priorities in terms of ending the–the war in Ukraine, what's happening in Israel, they're kind of stuck. And what we've learned, and the president is not going to Israel on this trip, is that the president and Prime Minister Netanyahu have had some tensions over the way forward on Gaza, on Iran. So while the president will be in the Middle East touting all of these economic–that he's delivering economically for the American people, he's really struggling more to deliver on these bigger challenges. KRISTEN WELKER: It's going to create such a fascinating backdrop to that trip, Carol Lee. The other backdrop to the trip, Sahil, is what the administration floated at the end of the week. Stephen Miller saying that they are looking into the possibility of suspending Habeas Corpus as a part of their deportation policy. You heard Senator Barrasso say, "I don't think that's ever going to come to Congress." What do you make of it? SAHIL KAPUR: Yeah, that's right. It's been a mostly muted reaction from Republicans to this float. Obviously, there's a lot of Republican support for the broad idea of Trump's immigration crackdown. But Senator Barrasso side-stepping multiple times as to where he stands, I thought that was notable. Also notable that he told you he doesn't think it's coming to Congress. I find it particularly striking that this White House is almost treating Congress like it doesn't matter here because there's a century and a half of case law, going all the way back to Lincoln and the Civil War, that the president does not have unilateral authority to suspend habeas corpus. Lincoln ended up asking Congress to do it, and since then it's been a–very much a settled issue. I think Trump not asking for permission here is notable. It's part and parcel of the way he operates. He doesn't ask for approval and new authorities. He takes those authorities and waits for someone to stop him. He will always take a mile until someone, Congress or the courts, tell him he can't. KRISTEN WELKER: Matt, it's such a great point. And this is what we're seeing in this second administration, with President Trump taking all of these unilateral moves and here, again, floating the idea of suspending habeas corpus. MATT GORMAN: I took it as not just a trial balloon but a warning shot against the courts, and you even heard that a little bit in Senator Barrasso's answer. And in many ways those first 100 days, as you said in your interview, were about Trump and what he could do on his own. This next 100 days will be about the courts and Congress and what happens there. I think a lot of Republicans are going to pivot back to what they can do on immigration, the more successful policies they can get behind. But more than anything, I took that as more of a warning shot against the courts and those district court judges Barrasso talked about in his answer. KRISTEN WELKER: Neera, the Democrats are watching this very closely, Senator Klobuchar saying, "We're not quite at a constitutional crisis yet." NEERA TANDEN: I mean, I guess the substance of this is, habeas corpus is really the most baseline protection of individual liberty against the overreaching powers of the state. I'm old enough to remember when conservatives used to lecture us about those things. And, just the idea that the president is floating violating habeas corpus, I'm frankly shocked there aren't Republicans lining up to just say, "that is completely wrong.' It's just another demonstration of putting politics above the Constitution. And I think the courts will hold up the president. I think he will be stopped. But I think we should all be outraged that he's even talking about a constitutional violation like this. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, Carol, all of this is happening as Democrats are trying to figure out their path forward and as we're hearing from former President Biden. And I did think it was notable to hear Senator Klobuchar's reaction to what we heard from him. CAROL LEE: It was notable that she said that the party would've been better served if there was a primary in 2024. Look, a lot of Democrats are not happy that he's reemerging as the party's trying to find its way. There's still lingering frustration with how he handled 2024. But from the former president's perspective, he's being attacked regularly, almost daily, by President Trump. There are new accusations about him having a mental decline while in office. So he's decided that he's going to go out there and defend himself and defend his record. At the same time, this is the first time he's been out of politics in more than 50 years and he just wants back in – KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah– CAROL LEE: –the conversation – KRISTEN WELKER: –it's a great point. Go ahead, Sahil. SAHIL KAPUR: Can I add to this? I think, Kristen, there's a good argument and a bad argument that President Biden can make in terms of his reemergence on the national stage. The good argument is about inflation and costs. Trump did oversell when he blamed Biden entirely for costs. Trump said he would bring it down on day one. It didn't quite happen. It's not really that simple. It's a structural, global problem. I think President Biden can make that point. The bad argument is if he argues he made the right decision to run for reelection and that he very, very much could have won, which he's suggesting. There's no data, there's no polling to suggest that he would've won. All the polling suggests that he would have gotten clobbered much worse than Vice President Kamala Harris did. And if he pursues this argument, I think we're going to hear more and more from Democrats who are quietly angry about the fact that they think he misled them in saying that he had another four years of him in this and that he could do another campaign. KRISTEN WELKER: That takes me to Neera. You served in the Biden administration. How do you see this and does Sahil have a point there? NEERA TANDEN: I mean, I guess I would say I do see this bifurcation. I mean, I do think a lot of Democrats look at Donald Trump, who seems to every day attack the president. It's almost like a noun, a verb, Donald–"But Joe Biden," for Donald Trump. And so, I think if it's talking about the record and how we had a stable economy in January and there seems to be a lot of chaos since, I think that's a good place for President Biden to be. I do think these comments in the last week, it–it really does feel to a lot of Democrats like re-litigating the November election and then, "Who could have won? Who wouldn't have won," is like our parents are fighting. And the truth is that Donald Trump today is–from Democrats' and actually a majority of Americans' perspectives–hurting a lot of people with tariffs, with - right now Congress is debating taking away health care for millions of people through Medicaid cuts. The fights in front of us are the most important. The future of the Democratic Party is actually in the future. And I think that's how most Democrats see it. KRISTEN WELKER: Matt, I spoke to one Republican who said, "Let him keep talking." MATT GORMAN: Let's go. No, I don't think Democrats are fully prepared for what's about to hit them. It's going to be a drumbeat of news over weeks. The first book, the first one, starts - drops in nine days, excerpts I'm told as soon as early this week. It reminds me a lot of what our party went through with the Iraq War. If you want to move past it and maintain your credibility, you have to first acknowledge it. Remember, voters were well ahead of the media, Democrats, elites on whether Joe Biden's age was an issue before the June debate. And I don't think they take kindly to being deceived for kind of craven political experiences. So I think they're going to have to reckon with that before we get to 2028. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, guys, great conversation on this Mother's Day. Thank you so much– MATT GORMAN: Happy Mother's Day. KRISTEN WELKER: I appreciate it. Thank you. CAROL LEE: Happy Mother's Day. KRISTEN WELKER: –and that is all for today. Happy Mother's Day to all of you. Thank you for watching. Happy Mother's Day to all of you out there. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
Yahoo
04-05-2025
- Politics
- Yahoo
Read the full transcript: President Donald Trump interviewed by 'Meet the Press' moderator Kristen Welker
KRISTEN WELKER: President Trump, welcome back to Meet the Press. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Thank you very much. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you so much for being here to mark your first 100 days in office. It has been an incredibly busy 100 days. You've signed more than 140 executive orders. You've been focused on the border, the economy, foreign policy. What is your biggest goal in the next 100 days? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think we're going to see a lot of results. We've already seen them. On the border, we have the best border in the history of our country. It was 99.999, and nobody ever thought that was possible. In fact, Biden, if you remember, said he has to get legislation. And I said, 'No, you just need a new president.' And I guess I was right. We have the best border we've ever had. We're doing great on illegal immigration. We are being hit hard by judges that I think they're trying to take away the power of the presidency. I was elected in a massive landslide and a big, you know, big vote. We won the swing states. We won the popular vote. We won the district votes by tremendous numbers. We won everything. And one of the reasons — one of the primary reasons I was elected was to get people out of our country that were allowed. We have prisoners. We have murderers. We have terrorists in our country. We have people from mental institutions that are seriously insane. They all came in through Biden's open border policy. And I was elected to get them out and to seal the border, but to get them out. And we'll have judges, they're activist judges. They're saying, 'Well, you know, you don't have the right to take out murderers and — and people that you don't even want to talk about.' These are really some really bad criminal people. And they're here illegally. So, you know they talk about — your next question will be due process. But they talk about due process, but do you get due process when you're here illegally? KRISTEN WELKER: We're going to talk about all of that. We are going to talk about deportation. But I want to start on the economy, sir, which obviously — obviously the biggest issue for voters. We got new numbers today, better than expected job numbers. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Much better. KRISTEN WELKER: At the same time, the economy shrank in the first quarter. You've been arguing all week that this is President Biden's economy. Is this now your economy, sir? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think certain aspects of it are. Costs are. I was able to get down the costs. But even that, it takes a while to get them down, but we got them down good. We lost 5 to 6 billion dollars a day with Biden. Five to 6 billion. And I've got that down to a great number right now in a very — in a record time. You know, we're talking about 100 days. But just think of what that is. Five billion dollars a day we're losing on trade. And we were very tough with China, as you know. We put 145% tariff on. Nobody's ever heard of such a thing. And we've essentially cut off trade relationships by putting that much of a tariff on. And that's okay. We've gone cold turkey. That means that we're not losing. You know, we lost a trillion dollars to China. A trillion dollars. That means we're not losing a trillion dollars when we go cold turkey because we're not doing business with them right now. And they want to make a deal. They want to make a deal very badly. We'll see how that all turns out, but it's got to be a fair deal. But think of it. We were losing a trillion dollars. And that was a big part of the 5 million dollars a day. KRISTEN WELKER: And I want to talk about China, but just staying on this idea of the economy. On the eve of your inauguration, the stock market spiked. You called it the 'Trump Effect.' Are you — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It spiked because I was elected president. It didn't spike because of anybody else. It spiked because they see what I'm going to do. They know what I'm going to do with the tariffs and everything else. And I think it's actually working out better than we anticipated. Did you see oil prices? Did you see gasoline is now below, in many cases, in many states, below 2 dollars a gallon? $1.98, $1.99, $1.97? KRISTEN WELKER: Well, my question, sir, is you — when the stock market spiked, you said this is the 'Trump effect.' When the numbers weren't so good earlier this week, you said it's the Biden effect. Are you only taking ownership of the good numbers and not the bad numbers? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think he did a lot of very bad things. And despite some of the bad things, we're overcoming them. But he was bad on the border. He was bad on the economy. We had the worst inflation in the history of our country. Look, Biden gave us the worst inflation in the history of our country. People — it didn't matter what they made because they were losing their shirt because of costs. Now take a look at what happened. Oil is down. Gasoline is down. Groceries are down. Eggs. You were the one that asked me. You asked me about eggs. It was the first week. I didn't even know anything about what you — we were talking about. Egg prices were so high, you couldn't buy eggs. They didn't have any eggs. And they said, 'Easter is going to be a disaster.' Well, we had Easter at the White House, and we had thousands of eggs. And they were down 87%. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. A lot of that, of course, spike was because of bird flu. But when does it become — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I don't know — KRISTEN WELKER: – the Trump economy? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – what it was. Why do you say that? KRISTEN WELKER: Well, tell me. When — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We had the same bird flu as he had. KRISTEN WELKER: When does it become the Trump economy? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It partially is right now. And I really mean this. I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy because he's done a terrible job. He did a terrible job on everything, from his autopen — which I'm sure he knew nothing about, some of the things he was supposedly signing — to immigration. You look at what happened with immigration, how bad it was. Think of it. We have murderers, 11,888 murderers, many of them murdered more than one person. Think of that. And they're in our country. Now, we've gotten a lot of them out, and we know who many of them are. And we're on the hunt. But why would anybody do that? Why would anybody — who could do such a thing where they'd allow hundreds of thousands, and even millions of people into our country — or criminals and murderers at the highest level. Who would do this? KRISTEN WELKER: But, sir, you acknowledge when you announced your tariffs, for example, the stock market dropped. It's been volatile. It has — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well — KRISTEN WELKER: – since gone up. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – it is, but now it's — KRISTEN WELKER: Do you take responsibility — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Look at today. I take responsibility. KRISTEN WELKER: – for that? Yeah. Do you take responsibility when it drops? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Ultimately, I take responsibility for everything. But I've only just been here for a little more than three months. But the stock market, look at what's happened in the last short period of time. Didn't it have nine or ten days in a row, or 11 days, where it's gone up? And the tariffs have just started kicking in. And we're doing really well. Psychologically, I mean, the fake news was giving me such press on the tariffs. The tariffs are going to make us rich. We're going to be a very rich country. KRISTEN WELKER: So let's talk about the tariffs. And I want to ask you about something you said this week. Got a lot of attention. You were at your Cabinet meeting. You said, quote — I'm going to quote what you said — 'Maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls. And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.' Are you saying that your tariffs will cause some prices to go up? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. I think tariffs are going to be great for us because it's going to make us rich. KRISTEN WELKER: But you said some dolls are going to cost more. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. KRISTEN WELKER: Isn't that an acknowledgment — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't think — KRISTEN WELKER: – that some prices — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – children — KRISTEN WELKER: – will go up? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't think that a beautiful baby girl needs — that's 11 years old — needs to have 30 dolls. I think they can have three dolls or four dolls because what we were doing with China was just unbelievable. We had a trade deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars with China. KRISTEN WELKER: When you say, 'They could have three dolls instead of 30 dolls,' are you saying you're — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm saying they don't need to have 30 dolls — KRISTEN WELKER: – that Americans could see empty store shelves? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying they don't need to have 30 dolls. They can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils. They can have five. KRISTEN WELKER: But you're basically saying there could be some supply shortages — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm basically saying — KRISTEN WELKER: – because of the tariffs. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – we don't have to waste money on a trade deficit with China for things we don't need, for junk that we don't need. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, prices are already going up on some popular items — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. KRISTEN WELKER: – from tires to strollers — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Whoa, whoa. This is such a dishonest interview already. KRISTEN WELKER: No, no. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Prices are down on groceries. Prices are down for oil. Prices are down for all energy. Prices are down at tremendous numbers for gasoline. And let me tell you, when you have — the big thing, what he did, he spent like a stupid person, which he was. But he spent like a very stupid person. And that was bad for inflation. But what really killed us with inflation was the price of energy. It went up to $3.90, even $4. And in California, $5 and $6. Right? Okay. I have it down to $1.98 in many states right now. When you go that much lower on energy — which is ahead of my prediction because I really thought I could get it down into the $2.50s — we have it down at $1.98 in numerous places. But when you say costs are going up, even mortgage rates are going down. You know, we have mortgage rates — KRISTEN WELKER: But let me give you some examples. These are — I mean, these are actual examples. So you're saying the prices that are going down. Some prices are going up. Tires, strollers, some clothing in the wake of your tariffs — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me. That's peanuts compared to — KRISTEN WELKER: Well — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – energy. Energy is 60% of the cost. KRISTEN WELKER: But, sir, you campaigned — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Energy is a big — KRISTEN WELKER: – on a promise to bring prices down on day one. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I don't know, when you say strollers are going up, what kind of a thing? I'm saying that gasoline is going down. Gasoline is thousands of times more important than a stroller or some place? KRISTEN WELKER: But what do you say to Americans who say they voted for you because they want and they need relief right now? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And they're getting it. KRISTEN WELKER: Right now? What about those — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Even mortgage rates. It was just announced — KRISTEN WELKER: – different items I just mentioned? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – mortgage rates are going down, despite the fact that we have a stubborn Fed. KRISTEN WELKER: But you said dolls — even dolls could cost a couple bucks more. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Maybe they might. But you don't need to have, as I said, 35 dolls. You can have two, three, four, and save a lot of money. We don't need to feed the beast. KRISTEN WELKER: I guess — you're talking about this transition cost. How long should people expect that transition to last, Mr. President? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I can't tell you that. I can tell you that we're making a lot of money. We're doing great. Again, we were losing more than $5 billion a day. $5 billion a day. You don't talk about that. And right now, we're going to be at a point very soon where we're making money every day. Look — KRISTEN WELKER: How soon? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – we were losing hundreds of billions of dollars with China. Now we're essentially not doing business with China. Therefore, we're saving hundreds of billions of dollars. Very simple. KRISTEN WELKER: You take me to my next question, which is about China. They've been making a number of public statements. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Very positive statements in the last 24 hours. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, and most recently, they said before talks could happen, the U.S. would need to remove unilateral tariffs. Would you consider dropping the tariffs to get China to the negotiating table? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. They — first of all, you're giving me a statement that was said a week ago. You're not giving the statement that was said today. KRISTEN WELKER: I have May 2nd, Chinese Commerce Ministry. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Do you know what they say today? KRISTEN WELKER: 'If the U.S. wants to negotiate, it should show sincerity –' PRES. DONALD TRUMP: 'We're looking forward — ' KRISTEN WELKER: ' — by preparing to take actions in correcting its mistakes and canceling the unilateral tariffs.' PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, no, no. They made — first of all, they made numerous statements. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. They've made numerous statements. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know how many people speak for China? KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It's like, you have 15 different — KRISTEN WELKER: They've made numerous statements — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I can give you a statement for any occasion. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. Yes, yes. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But they said today they want to talk. Look, China — and I don't like this. I'm not happy about this. China's getting killed right now. They're getting absolutely destroyed. Their factories are closing. Their unemployment is going through the roof. I'm not looking to do that to China. Now, at the same time, I'm not looking to have China make hundreds of billions of dollars and build more ships and more army tanks and more airplanes. KRISTEN WELKER: So you're not prepared — just to be very clear, you're not dropping the tariffs against China to get them to the negotiating table? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Why would I — KRISTEN WELKER: Those tariffs are staying on? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Why would I do that? KRISTEN WELKER: Would you lower them? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: At some point, I'm going to lower them because otherwise, you could never do business with them. And they want to do business very much. Look, their economy is really doing badly. Their economy is collapsing. KRISTEN WELKER: So small businesses say they are being hurt by the Chinese tariffs. And some could be forced to shut down. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And many businesses are being helped. KRISTEN WELKER: Are you considering — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Look at the automobile — KRISTEN WELKER: – tariff relief for small businesses? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Why do you always mention that. You know, you pick up a couple of little businesses. What about the car business? They're going to make a fortune because of the tariffs. Do you know that the union, the head of the union, who was no fan of mine, Fain, Shawn Fain I guess his name is, right? He didn't endorse me. The Teamsters did. A lot of people did. A lot of unions did. But he didn't. He couldn't stand me. Now he's saying, 'Wow. What Trump's done for the automobile, I can't believe it.' I assume he's going to probably now say — the next thing he can say is, 'I endorse this guy. He's the greatest I've ever seen.' He can't believe it's happened. He said, 'We've been waiting 40 years for somebody to do what Trump is doing.' So why don't you mention the big car industry instead of mentioning somebody that's doing strollers? KRISTEN WELKER: Well, I'm just asking you about small businesses. Are there any discussions about giving any relief to small businesses? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: They're not going to need it. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Are these — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: They're going to make so much money — KRISTEN WELKER: Are these tariffs — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – if you build your product here. Remember, there are no tariffs if you build your product here. It's very easy. It's very simple. KRISTEN WELKER: Are these tariffs permanent, Mr. President? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Depends on what you're talking about. One of the things that is going to bring, and has brought — so I think we probably have close to $9 trillion of investments coming into this country. If you look at other presidents, there's never been anything like that. This is over a period of two months. You've got to give me a little break on the one month because we're three months. But, you know, let's say we had to get started. We had a lot of fake news at the beginning, so we had to beat that down. But so let's say in two months. So in just a short period of time — a matter of a couple of months — we have the largest number ever in history invested in the United States and committed. We have between, guaranteed, spoken for and people that are going to make a decision and announce it pretty soon, close to $9 trillion. We've never had anything close. Now, that's Apple building $500 billion worth of plants. They always built their plants in China. Now they're building their plants over here. That's the biggest computer company, the biggest chip company in the world. You know, the chip company from Taiwan, which is the biggest in the world, is committed for $500 billion. Another one's committed for $300 billion. We have companies, nobody's ever seen anything like it. Let me tell you the other thing, very importantly — automobile companies. Plant, after plant, after plant: Toyota, Honda, Ford, General Motors, Stellantis, I mean, nobody's ever seen anything like it. And I don't like this, but it happens to be. They're stopping work in Mexico, and they're stopping work in Canada, and they're all moving here. KRISTEN WELKER: This is important though. You're not taking the possibility that these tariffs could be permanent off the table — some of them? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, I wouldn't do that because if somebody thought they were going to come off the table, why would they build in the United States? KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You understand that, right? KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. No, I mean, that's why I'm asking because there's a lot of, I think, uncertainty for CEOs, for business owners. They want to know are these tariffs — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: See, I don't think there is uncertainty. KRISTEN WELKER: – permanent? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think there's only uncertainty in the fake news. I don't think there's uncertainty. I mean, I've been very rigid, very strong on it. But I will say I have — I'm flexible. Like, with respect to parts made outside of the country, I gave the automobile companies a little extra time. You know, you're talking about 15%, and then 10% of the parts made — put in a car. I gave them a little extra time without penalizing them. And I did that only to help, you know, companies. We're looking to help companies. We want them to thrive and to hire a lot of people and that's what's happening. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about some of what Wall Street has said. Some people on Wall Street have expressed concerns that the possibility of a recession is increasing. And I want to know what you think about that. Are you comfortable with the country potentially dipping into a recession for a period of time if you are able to achieve your long term goals? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, you know, you say some people on Wall Street say, well, I'll tell you something else. Some people on Wall Street say that we're going to have the greatest economy in history. Why don't you talk about them? Because some people on Wall Street say this is the greatest — KRISTEN WELKER: Well, that's what I'm getting at — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – thing that ever happened. KRISTEN WELKER: That's what I'm getting at though. It's — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: There are many people — KRISTEN WELKER: – the same question. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. There are many people on Wall Street that say, 'This is going to be the greatest windfall ever happen.' KRISTEN WELKER: And that's my question — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Remember this — KRISTEN WELKER: – the long term. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: Is it okay in the short term to have a recession? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Remember this. Look, yeah. Everything's okay. What we are — I said, this is a transition period. I think we're going to do fantastically. One of your colleagues on another fake news station, ABC, said, 'Do you guarantee 100% that a certain person is going to do a fantastic job as, let's say, Secretary of Defense?' Okay? Because that was the question. I said, 'What kind of a question is that? Do I guarantee 100%? Nobody guarantees 100%.' But I will say this. I think we're going to have an economy the likes of which we've never had before. You know, my four years were phenomenal, as you know. The stock market. In fact, even though we had to go through the Covid thing, that horrible situation with Covid, we did numbers — and when I gave it over, when I handed it over, the election was rigged, and I handed it — and because of that, we have a lot of problems, by the way. But when I handed it over, what happened? The market was higher than it was previous to just previous to Covid coming in. Nobody could believe it. The stock market, I'm talking about. KRISTEN WELKER: I don't want to look back, but you did take your case to court about that. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, you got to look back. KRISTEN WELKER: You took your case to court about your allegations against the election. Let me ask you, sir — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Ah, no no no. There's no question about it. The election was rigged. The facts are in. And it's still being litigated. Let's go. KRISTEN WELKER: You did take your case to court more than 60 times — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, no, sure. KRISTEN WELKER: – and didn't win those cases. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. And I won a lot of court cases — KRISTEN WELKER: Just to button that up though, sir, just to button that up — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: What are you talking about? The election of — KRISTEN WELKER: How worried are you — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Are we talking about the election of 2020? KRISTEN WELKER: No, let's talk about the here and now. Let's talk about here and now — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: The election of 2020? KRISTEN WELKER: Let's not talk about — let's talk about here and now. Are you worried about a recession? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. No. I think we're going to have the greatest economic — KRISTEN WELKER: I mean, are you worried it could happen? Do you think it could happen? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Anything can happen. But I think we're going to have the greatest economy in the history of our country. I think we're going to have the greatest economic boom in history. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about this call to Amazon founder Jeff Bezos this week in response to a report that Amazon was going to display tariff costs next to product prices. Are you going to punish CEOs who increase their prices because of tariffs? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think what's — what is a great misnomer is the word 'tariff' in many cases, it's not — to me, I don't view it as a tax. I view it as an incentive for people to come into the United States and build plants, factories, offices, a lot of things. I think it's an incentive. But the thing that's not known is, if you look back and see, oftentimes, like China or Vietnam or other countries, not just China, because China's an abuser, but there are other abusers. Many of them are friends, the so-called — I say friend and foe, and friend is oftentimes worse than foe. But what people don't understand is, and this is a lot, the country eats the tariff. The company eats the tariff. And it's not passed along at all. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, some CEOs — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't view it as a tax. KRISTEN WELKER: – are saying they're going to have to pass it on. So how do you deal with those CEOs? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It may. It may. But the company — KRISTEN WELKER: How do you deal with those CEOs? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: China is eating the tariffs right now. KRISTEN WELKER: What do you say to those CEOs who are saying, 'We might have to pass this on to the consumer?' PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, they say that because maybe it's to their advantage to say it. Maybe they don't — KRISTEN WELKER: Will you punish them? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, because you know what? I want them to build plants in the United States. That way, they don't have any tariffs. See, tariffs will — and not only will, look at what's happened. In two months, we're close to $9 trillion of investment. We've never been anywhere near that. KRISTEN WELKER: What did you say to Jeff Bezos? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: He's just a very nice guy. We have a relationship. I asked him about it. He said, 'Well, I don't want to do that,' and he took it off immediately. KRISTEN WELKER: So he changed course. And will you take that same tactic with other CEOs if you feel like — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. I'll always call people if I disagree with them. KRISTEN WELKER: You'll — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: If I think that somebody's doing something that's incorrect, wrong, or maybe hurtful to the country, I'll call. Absolu — wouldn't you want me to call? Biden wouldn't call because he didn't know what was happening, but I do. KRISTEN WELKER: Takes me to my next question. Today's strong jobs report likely means — not clear, but likely means — the Fed is less likely to lower interest rates soon. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, he should lower them. And at some point, he will. He'd rather not because he's not a fan of mine. You know, he just doesn't like me because I think he's a total stiff. And, you know, it's just one of those things. He should lower them. And I wish the people that are on that board would get him to lower because we are at a perfect time. It's already late. But he should lower interest rates. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you rule out removing Fed Chair Jerome Powell? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm not — you know, I get to change him very quickly anyway. You know, it's in a very short period of time. KRISTEN WELKER: In 2026. You're not going to remove — you don't have plans to remove him before 2026 when his time's up? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, no, no. That was a total — why would I do that? I get to replace the person in another short period of time. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. This week, you reshuffled your national security team. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: You moved National Security Advisor Mike Waltz to U.N. ambassador. Just to remind our viewers, Waltz, of course, started that unsecure text chain where sensitive information was shared. Mr. President, was that move a punishment? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. I just think he'll do a nice job in the new position. Marco's doing an outstanding job. Now, Marco won't keep — Marco's very busy doing other things, so he's not going to keep it long term. We're going to put somebody else in. But I think Mike was a — as you know, he's a fine guy. And I think he'll do a very good job — knows the countries, knows leadership. And I think he'll do a very good at the United Nations. And in the meantime, Marco's really doing something special. And it's going to work out very well. KRISTEN WELKER: We're hearing some potential names. Stephen Miller's name, one of your long-time, most loyal aides. His name has been talked about as a potential national security advisor. Is he someone you're looking at? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I'd love to have Stephen there, but that would be a downgrade. Stephen is very — Stephen is much higher on the totem pole than that, in my opinion. KRISTEN WELKER: Can you tell us who the frontrunner is right now? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I have a lot of people that want it. I will tell you, I have everybody calling. Everybody wants to be a part of this administration. So at some point we'll — you know, probably do that. You know, there's a theory. Henry Kissinger did both. There's a theory that you don't need two people. But I think I have some really great people that could do a good job. KRISTEN WELKER: So Secretary Rubio could continue to have both jobs indefinitely? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: He could, yeah. He could. But I think he even would like to probably see — because it is a little bit different. But in the meantime, he'll handle it. And I think Mike, if that goes forward, you know, he still has to get approved. But I think Mike will do a very good job at the United Nations. KRISTEN WELKER: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth obviously also on that unsecure text chain. He was sharing sensitive information. Are you looking for a new secretary of defense, Mr. President? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. Not even a little bit. No. Pete's going to be great. We're — KRISTEN WELKER: His job is safe right now? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We're doing a fantastic job against the Houthis, who like blowing ships up and watching them sink in the ocean. We're hitting them very hard. No, he's doing a very good job. KRISTEN WELKER: His job is safe right now? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Totally safe. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Let's talk about the border.. Let's talk about deportations. Border crossings are at their lowest level ever recorded. Is the border — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Is that good? KRISTEN WELKER: Is the border now secure? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, it's really secure. KRISTEN WELKER: It's absolutely secure? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Isn't that good, though? When you say that, doesn't that just sound good? After being abused for years by an incompetent president that allowed people to pour through an open border, criminals from all over the world, murderers and insane people from mental institutions and insane asylums, isn't it — isn't it a beautiful thing when you say, 'It's the most secure it's ever been in the history of our country.' Isn't that a nice statement? KRISTEN WELKER: Well, I'm curious to know what it means. You declared a national emergency on the southern border. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: The order is still in place. Even though — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: By the way, it means exactly what you said, you know — KRISTEN WELKER: – you're saying the border is secure. Yes. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Means we have the most secure border we've ever had. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, and I guess the question becomes — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It's not complicated. KRISTEN WELKER: – when will you know that the emergency is over? Are you planning to lift it at some point? Is it necessary? Because obviously, the military's involved. Will you lift that — that emergency order, sir? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, the biggest emergency is the courts aren't allowing us to take really — KRISTEN WELKER: We're going to talk about that, but talk to me first about this — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, that's to me the emergency because — KRISTEN WELKER: Talk to me first about this, the emergency — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: The border now is not the emergency. The border is — it's all part of the same thing though. The big emergency right now is that we have thousands of people that we want to take out, and we have some judges that want everybody to go to court — KRISTEN WELKER: Some of them you appointed, sir, including three on the Supreme Court. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: That's all right. I mean, they change. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable how that happens, but they do change. KRISTEN WELKER: Just to button this up, though, are you planning to lift that emergency order any time soon now that the border's secure? You say the border's secure. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, no, no. We have an emergency. We have a massive emergency overall. It's an overall emergency on immigration. And the — if the courts don't allow us to take people out, if we had to have a court case every single — think of it. Every single person, we have millions of people. If you have millions of court cases, figure two weeks a court case, it would be 300 years. KRISTEN WELKER: So let's talk about this, because obviously, you've had a back and forth with the Supreme Court. In a 9-0 decision, the Supreme Court directed your administration to facilitate the return, you've talked about this in the past, of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, from a prison in El Salvador, whose deportation your administration called an 'administrative error.' You said in a recent interview you could bring him back but you won't. Are you defying the Supreme Court, sir? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. I'm relying on the attorney general of the United States, Pam Bondi, who's very capable, doing a great job. Because I'm not involved in the legality or the illegality. I have lawyers to do that and that's why I have a great DOJ. We have a great one. We had a very corrupt one before. Now we have a great one. And they're not viewing the decision the way you said it. They don't view it that way at all. They think it's a totally different decision. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you say you have the power to bring him back, though. Your attorney general says, quote, 'That's up to El Salvador.' Just to put a fine point on this, do you have the power to bring Abrego Garcia back as the Supreme Court has ordered? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I have the power to ask for him to come back if I'm instructed by the attorney general that it's legal to do so. But the decision as to whether or not he should come back will be the head of El Salvador. He's a very capable man. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you know, and your attorney general has said the issue is with that word 'facilitate.' Will you seek clarification from the Supreme Court? Do you need to go back to the Supreme Court? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We may do that. I was asking about that. We may do that. There are some people that say, 'Bring him back, put him in trial, and you get him out right away.' Because you take — you see what happened just this morning, tapes came out, horrible tapes from his wife. You don't get much worse than that. You don't get, I mean, he seems certainly like a very dangerous, very bad person. But even the wife who was so afraid, she was afraid to talk, and all of a sudden tapes got released this morning that were devastating to him. KRISTEN WELKER: And this is the point, sir, about due process. The Constitution says every person, citizens and non-citizens, deserve due process. Why not push to have him come back, present all of that evidence in court, let a judge decide? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I'll leave that to the lawyers, and I'll leave that to the attorney general of the United States, because — KRISTEN WELKER: But do you agree — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – they're in it. You have to understand. I'm dealing with Russia and Ukraine. I'm dealing with China — KRISTEN WELKER: And we're going to talk about that. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm dealing with Iran. I'm dealing with Rwanda and the Congo who are fighting and we're trying to get that one straightened out. And I think we have done that, did a great job. Nobody even talks about it, but I think we're close to doing that. They're looking like they're going to maybe make a peace deal, which was — would be good. But I'm dealing with a lot of different things. I don't know much about this gentleman other than I hear he's an absolute not good person. And I have very capable legal people, John Sauer, as you know, and all top people. And I have to rely on that to interpret whatever is said by the Supreme Court. Now with that being said, I have tremendous respect for the Supreme Court. Look, three of the people are people I appointed. KRISTEN WELKER: Right. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And I have great respect for the Supreme Court. And I would expect that the attorney general will be doing the right thing. KRISTEN WELKER: Your secretary of state says everyone who's here, citizens and non-citizens, deserve due process. Do you agree, Mr. President? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, the Fifth Amendment says as much. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't know. It seems — it might say that, but if you're talking about that, then we'd have to have a million or 2 million or 3 million trials. We have thousands of people that are some murderers and some drug dealers and some of the worst people on Earth. KRISTEN WELKER: But is — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Some of the worst, most dangerous people on Earth. And I was elected to get them the hell out of here and the courts are holding me from doing it. KRISTEN WELKER: But even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said. What you said is not what I heard the Supreme Court said. They have a different interpretation. KRISTEN WELKER: Is anyone in your administration right now in contact with El Salvador about returning Abrego Garcia to the United States? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't know. You'd have to ask the attorney general that question. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. At least two Americans have been mistakenly detained and released by your administration, immigration authorities. Mr. President, should lawful residents of this country start carrying paperwork with them when they leave their homes to be able to prove that they're — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't think that'll be necessary, but what you're not saying is that many people have been killed, maimed, badly hurt by illegal immigrants that came over that are from prisons and from jails and from mental institutions. And they're hurting our people. And if we don't get them out, we're not going to have a country for long. KRISTEN WELKER: There — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We need honest media, and we need walls. We need to have borders. And, by the way, I built a lot of walls, and if we didn't do that, we wouldn't be able to have those — you know, we would not be able to have the kind of numbers if I wasn't successful in building hundreds of miles of wall. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, sir. The last time you and I spoke in December, you said that you would consider working on getting Dreamers legal status. Dreamers, of course, those who are brought here illegally as children. Where do those efforts stand — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Many, many years ago — KRISTEN WELKER: Is that a priority for you? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, it's not a priority for the Democrats because every time we talk about it, they don't want to talk about it because I guess they like it as a political issue. But they're not good at political issues because they still want to have men play in women's sports. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, Republicans do control Congress right now, Mr. President. Are you going to make — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, but the Democrats don't — KRISTEN WELKER: – Dreamers a priority? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, for that, you would need to have support from Democrats, and we have no support from the Democrats. KRISTEN WELKER: Have you had any discussions about Dreamers? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, we've had discussions. We would do something. I'd love to put a beautiful immigration for everybody. But the Democrats don't want to approve anything. All they want to do is knock out a tax bill. We're trying to get approved right now the biggest tax cut in the history of our country, and if it doesn't get approved, it's a 68% tax increase, and that's what the Democrats want. They want a 68% tax increase. It's rather incredible. KRISTEN WELKER: And I do want to talk to you about your legislation, but let's talk about DOGE very quickly. DOGE has fired and then rehired thousands of federal workers, including FAA employees in charge of aviation safety, specialists working on nuclear weapon safety. What do you say to those who believe Elon Musk's chainsaw approach has jeopardized the safety and security of Americans? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, he found $160 billion worth of fraud, waste and abuse. I mean, I think he's done an amazing job. I think his people have done an incredible job. They're brilliant people. They know the computer. I actually asked him, 'What's their big trait?' He said, 'They're unbelievable at computers.' In other words, you can't fake them out. Because these people were in many cases crooks, but it was fraud, waste and abuse. They found — your question should be asked a different way. 'Were certain things found?' Yes. 'How much?' $160 billion. Think of what $160 billion is. If you found 160 — KRISTEN WELKER: He said he'd find $2 trillion. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, we're not finished yet. We're not finished yet. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you think the work continues even though he's leaving? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Oh yes, of course, sure. He's leaving behind some very brilliant people. They were on television last night. They're super high IQ people. I like high IQ people. The Democrats don't have many of them. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about some news that broke. You are threatening to rescind Harvard's tax-exempt status. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: And yet, directing the IRS to investigate and rescind a university's tax-exempt status is contrary to what's in the federal law. The law says you can't do this. Do you think you're following the law? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I tell you, I'm going to just follow what the lawyers say. They say that we're allowed to do that, and I'm all for it. But everything I say is subject to the laws being 100% adhered to. KRISTEN WELKER: Are you willing to take this to court if it becomes a court fight? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure, why not? KRISTEN WELKER: You're going to take it that far? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We've won a lot of cases. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, let's talk about some of the other actions you've taken over the past 100 days. Last month, you directed your attorney general, Pam Bondi, to review two people who you perceive to be your political adversaries. And yet, you told me in December that you would not direct the Justice Department to investigate your political foes. What changed? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, no. I just look at people — and I'm not directing anybody. They looked at these two people. They might have known it or they might have heard it from two years ago. One person said, 'He knew me so well,' he was I think on CNN or MSDNC, but they're both failing networks, you're happy to know. Even though one of them I guess is related to you in one form or another, although, they're trying to cut them loose as fast as possible. But the — it was well-known that this one person, it was almost like he was my brother. I don't even know who he is. Maybe he was there. Maybe he was in the Oval Office a few times as a surrogate for somebody in some form of government, along with 25 other people that sat in the back of the room or stood in the back of the room. I have no idea who this guy is. And he's out there and then he did a book called 'Anonymous.' Did a book called 'Anonymous.' I think that's really subversion. I think it's spying, it's something. It's something really bad. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, you passed an executive order calling for your attorney general to investigate that. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And I think he's been looked at for a long time. And the other one said that the election was so wonderful. Well, it turned out it wasn't a wonderful election. It was a corrupt election. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask it this way, sir, because when we talked in December, I asked you, what is your message to people who didn't vote for you? Let me remind you of what you said. You said, 'I love you, and we're going to all work together.' How does pursuing your political foes help to unify the country? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Did I really say, 'I love you?' KRISTEN WELKER: You really did. That's a direct quote. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm sure you're right, but I'd like to see that. KRISTEN WELKER: I promise I'll show it to you. I'll show you the tape. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Look — KRISTEN WELKER: How does that help to unify the country? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I want to treat people fairly, whether they voted for me or not. I want to have a unified country. It's very hard because the media's so fake, including, like, even the way you ask questions. Every question is asked in a negative vein. 'There's a toy company that took a toddler's you know whatever.' But you don't talk about the fact that gasoline is down at numbers that nobody believes possible. You know why they're down, by the way? Drill baby, drill. We're drilling like crazy right now. KRISTEN WELKER: We try to make sure every question is fair, Mr. President. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, look. Every question you ask says a very negative slant. KRISTEN WELKER: No, no, no. But I'm just curious, are you — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And I'm fine for responding to you. I don't think you're very difficult at all to respond to, to be honest with you. But you know what? You should ask some positive things, like, 'Sir, it's amazing what you've done with gasoline.' Because you know what? Gasoline's big business. A stroller is not big business. KRISTEN WELKER: But to this question, Mr. President, you said you wanted to unify the country. Does going after political foes undercut that goal? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, not at all. No, we want honest people. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think you have to do that. And we want honest people in this country. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you big picture. People who have lived in countries like the Philippines, Hungary, Russia, they look at some of your actions — going after civil service, going after universities, law firms, the media — they say it's out of an authoritarian playbook. What do you say to those who believe you are taking the country down an authoritarian path? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, there you go again. Why don't you ask it a different way? Many people want to come into our country. Many people love Trump. I won the election. They didn't win the election. I got a lot more votes than they did. I won the popular vote. I won all seven swing states by a lot. A lot of people were surprised. They said, 'I think he could win four, maybe five.' No, I won all seven, and I won by a lot. And I won. Actually, I think there was a lot of hanky panky going on but it was too big to rig. That's the good news. It's too big to rig. But let me just say, so when you make these statements about, 'People say this –,' well, they had their chance at the election and they lost big. So you should ask the question differently — KRISTEN WELKER: What do you say to — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You should say, 'What about the people that want to be in this country? What about the people that love this country?' KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. But what do you say to — I'm asking it on behalf of those people to give you a chance to respond to them. What do you say to those people, sir? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Those people are going to be very happy. They're going to have to see some results. And I think we had a great 100 days. There are a lot of people that say it was unprecedented. It was an absolutely unprecedented 100 days. And I hope that they're going to be right. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you see dissent as an essential part of democracy? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It's a part of democracy. It is. You're always going to have dissent — KRISTEN WELKER: Is it an important part of democracy? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You're always going to have — Kristen, you're always going to have dissent. There's nothing you're going to do about that. Am I going to get 100% unified? It would be a strange place. I can't even imagine it where 100%. Look. You have people that are good people. They're very smart people. And they honestly believe we should have open borders and the entire world should be allowed to pour into our country. I think it's a 95/5 issue, but they believe it. They're not even bad people. Some of them are bad. You have people that honestly believe that men should be allowed to play in women's sports. Some of these people I really, actually I don't know any. I haven't been able to find any, but they exist. They say it's an 80/20 issue. I don't believe that. I think it's a 97 to three issue. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you think people should have the right to criticize you without fear of reprisal? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Absolutely. Yeah, I do. That I do. KRISTEN WELKER: And how do you square that — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And I think that happens. KRISTEN WELKER: How do you square that with the fact that you have passed these executive orders asking the attorney general to look into some of the people who've criticized you, who've been harshest against you? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I have been investigated more than any person in the history of the United States of America. I've been investigated more than the late great, as they say at my rallies, Alphonse Capone. Alphonse Capone was a nasty man. He was a — the highest level gangster. And I have been investigated more than Al Capone, more than anybody. These people are evil people. And I won. And I'll tell you what. All I want to happen is for the Department of Justice and the FBI. Pam is great and Kash is great. I think they're two great people. But they're their own people. They want to do a fantastic job. And all I want to do and all I want to ask for is that they be allowed to do their job. I'm not telling them to do anything. And I believe I have the right to do it. I'm, in theory, the top law enforcement officer as the president. We went over this once before, and it turned out I was right. But I'm not looking to use that. We have two great people, and we have many, many incredible people under them. And I just want them to do their job and do it well. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about something I don't think you've been asked much about, which is you've branded your own cryptocurrency. The coin's value actually surged recently after you announced that top holders would be invited to have dinner — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't even know that. What did it surge to — KRISTEN WELKER: — that people wanted to — what did it surge to? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. What's it worth? You might as well tell me, because I have no idea. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it surged, I will find it, hold on one second, 5.2 or 58%, so 58%. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: To what number? KRISTEN WELKER: That's not bad, 14.32. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: What, billion? KRISTEN WELKER: For — no, dollars per cryptocurrency. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Billion dollars? KRISTEN WELKER: No. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: What's the number? I mean, what is the amount? KRISTEN WELKER: The meme coin's value hit a peak of 75.35 on January 19. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, that doesn't mean anything. KRISTEN WELKER: And that's before your inauguration, and then it surged. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Look. I'm in favor of crypto. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. But let me just ask you — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know what I'm in favor of it — KRISTEN WELKER: – what do you say to those who argue that when they hear that, they worry you're profiting from the presidency? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm not profiting from anything. All I'm doing is, I started this long before the election. I want crypto. I think crypto's important because if we don't do it, China's going to. And it's new, it's very popular, it's very hot. If you look at the market, when the market went down, that stayed much stronger than other aspects of the market. But I want crypto because a lot of people, you know millions of people want it. I don't know if you know that Biden went after it violently, and then before the election, he changed his tune entirely. His head of the SEC, everybody changed their tune. You know why? Because there were hundreds of millions of people that are participating in crypto, and they wanted to get their votes. But it didn't work– KRISTEN WELKER: So you're not profiting off of the cryptocurrency at all? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I haven't even looked. KRISTEN WELKER: Has your family? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But I'll tell you what. Look, if I own stock in something and I do a good job, and the stock market goes up, I guess I'm profiting. But who really profits is somebody like Nancy Pelosi, who uses inside information. She worked for $175,000 a year, and that's at the high end. And she's worth $150, $200 million? Okay? You ought to look at Nancy Pelosi and you ought to look at some of these politicians that are stone cold crooks. I was very wealthy when I came in. Being president probably cost me money if you really look. In fact, I do something that no other president has done, they think maybe George Washington has done. I contribute my entire salary to the government, back to the government. And I'm doing it again. KRISTEN WELKER: So will you contribute anything you earn from crypto back to the government if that happens? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I never thought of that. I mean, should I contribute all of my real estate that I've owned for many years if it goes up a little bit because I'm president and doing a good job? I don't think so. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But I've done something that surprisingly they say nobody else has done, no other president has done. I give, and it's a substantial salary. It's a half a million dollars a year or $550,000 a year, four years, couple of million dollars. I gave it to the government last time. I never got a story saying I gave it. Nobody cared if I gave it. I guarantee if I didn't give it, there'd be a big story. But no other president, they say with the possible exception of George Washington, and they haven't been able to find those records. And we've had wealthy presidents before, but no other president has contributed his salary. And they told me before this that you will probably be asking me whether or not I'm going to contribute my salary again. But you haven't asked that. KRISTEN WELKER: Are you going to? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yes. KRISTEN WELKER: You are? Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yes. I am. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Well, I appreciate — we just made news there. Let's talk about foreign policy, sir. You just signed a minerals deal with Ukraine. It's a sign, it seems, that the United States is invested in Ukraine's future. The secretary of state told me this is a very critical week. Are you any closer to reaching a peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I hope so. KRISTEN WELKER: How would you characterize it? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I do believe we're closer with one party, and maybe not as close with the other. But we'll have to see. I'd like to not say which one we're closer to. But we did do a deal for the American people that was good. We were able to get rare earth, you know? The Europeans are getting paid back. They have a loan. We didn't — Biden just gave them $350 billion. He has no idea where the money is, what happened. And at least we'll, in one form or another, get our — yeah, I don't feel so foolish. And remember this, this is Biden's war. This was a war that was never going to happen if I were president. This is a horrible, horrible war. And I get to see shots of soldiers through, you know, satellite that are so, just so, terrible. 5,000 soldiers are being, look 5,000 soldiers a week on average are dying. They're not American soldiers. But I want to solve the problem. They're Russian soldiers, and they're Ukrainian soldiers. And if I can save 5,000 souls, I just love doing it. KRISTEN WELKER: How long do you give both countries before you're going to walk away? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, there will be a time when I will say, 'Okay, keep going. Keep being stupid and keep fighting.' KRISTEN WELKER: When does that come? Are you close to it? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sometimes I get close to it, and then positive things happen, okay? So I hope it gets done. KRISTEN WELKER: Your close ally, Senator Lindsey Graham, has a sanctions bill against Russia. If you get to that point, Mr. President, where you're prepared to walk away, will you support — will you sign that sanctions bill? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, it depends on whether or not Russia is behaving toward coming to a peace. We want a peace deal. We want Russia and Ukraine to agree to a deal. We think we're fairly close, and we're going to save a lot of people from being killed. Going to save a lot of money, too. Because we're spending money like — you know, Europe is spending a third of the money that we're spending. And it's more important for Europe than it is for us. Biden had no control. He just sent money over there willy-nilly, nobody had any idea what was happening, why they were doing it, why they were sending it. And it was massive amounts of money. KRISTEN WELKER: So you think you're close to a deal? What will Russia have to give up? Because Ukraine, there's been discussions they will have to give up some of the land that Russia's illegally claimed. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Russia will have to give up all of Ukraine. Because that's what they want. KRISTEN WELKER: All of Ukraine? Meaning they wouldn't keep any of the land that they have claimed? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, no. Russia would have to give up all of Ukraine. Because what Russia wants is all of Ukraine. And if I didn't get involved, they would be fighting right now for all of Ukraine. Russia doesn't want the strip that they have now; Russia wants all of Ukraine. And if it weren't me, they would keep going. Do you know that the European Union leaders have asked me to call Putin so many times? Because he doesn't return their phone call. KRISTEN WELKER: You, you, posted on social media he might be 'tapping' you along. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Might be. KRISTEN WELKER: Did you misread him– PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But you might be tapping me along, too, when you tell me how nice an interview this is going to be. So you know, I'm used to being tapped along. KRISTEN WELKER: Did you in any way misread Vladimir Putin? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Did I what? KRISTEN WELKER: Misread him? Now that you're saying that. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No, I'll tell you about in a month from now, or two weeks from now. I have no idea. I can tell you this, he's — his ambition was stopped to a large extent when he saw that it was me that was now leading the charge. Because he wasn't dealing with anybody in Europe, he wasn't calling them back. Do you know that I asked him, I said, 'Did Biden ever call you in three years? Did Biden ever call?' He said, 'He never called.' You know, Biden didn't call him one time? And all these thousands of soldiers, hundreds, millions of soldiers are dying, and people, not only soldiers. People dying in the cities, and the towns, and the whole heritage of that country is being blown apart. I mean, the country's heritage is being blown apart. You know the steeples, those beautiful spires that you see, you know the most beautiful in the world? Almost 95% of them are laying in smithereens, all broken up and, so sad, laying all over the ground because they were shot. It's really a bad situation. And he didn't get one phone call from Biden. The war would've never started. And by the way, for four years it didn't start. I was there for four years, it was the apple of his eye. This was the apple of Putin's eye. There was no chance he would have gone in. KRISTEN WELKER: What's the red line for you? At what point do you say, 'That's it, we're walking away?' PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, you'll know. I mean, there will be a time when I may say that. And if I do — KRISTEN WELKER: But you're not there? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – there may be something. I can't — maybe it's not possible to do. There's tremendous hatred, just so you understand. Kristen, we're talking tremendous hatred between these two men and between, you know, some of the soldiers, frankly. Between the generals. They've been fighting hard for three years. I think we have a very good chance of doing it. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, if you do walk away, would that mean that you would pull military and intelligence sharing? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't want to say that now. It's too early to say that. I don't want to get into that argument. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay, let's move onto Canada. You have long talked about making Canada the 51st state. There's obviously a new prime minister of Canada, Mark Carney, who you spoke to — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Correct. KRISTEN WELKER: – after his victory. He says that you didn't talk to him in that call about making Canada a 51st state. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. He called me, he was very nice, and I congratulated him. He had a victory. It's a very close victory. You know, there's no majority or anything, so that's going to make things a little bit difficult, I think, for him to run. But he'd nevertheless had a victory. And he's a very nice man, I think. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you plan to talk to him about making Canada a 51st state? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: He wants to come and see me. He's going to come this week or next week. KRISTEN WELKER: So will you talk to him about making Canada a 51st state, annexing Canada? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'll always talk about that. You know why? We subsidize Canada to the tune of $200 billion a year. We don't need their cars. In fact, we don't want their cars. We don't need their energy. We don't even want their energy. We have more than they do. We don't want their lumber. We have great lumber. All I have to do is free it up from the environmental lunatics. We don't need anything that they have. We're giving them — I asked, I asked Mr. Trudeau — who I call Governor Trudeau, not Prime Minister, Governor — I said, 'Governor Trudeau, could I ask you one question? Why are we giving you $200 billion? Why are we subsidizing Canada?' If Canada was a state it wouldn't cost us. It would be great. It would be such a great — it would be a cherished state. And, if you look at our map, if you look at the geography — I'm a real estate guy at heart. When I look down at that without that artificial line that was drawn with a ruler many years ago — was just an artificial line, goes straight across. You don't even realize. What a beautiful country it would be. It would be great. But, I don't think the American public wants me to pay $200 billion a year to subsidize Canada. Again, remember this, we don't need their cars, we don't need their lumber, we don't need their energy. We don't need anything. We do very little business with Canada. They do all of their business practically with us. They need us. We don't need them. KRISTEN WELKER: You and I talked, and I asked you if you would rule out military force to take Greenland. And you said, no, you don't rule out anything. Would you rule out military force to take Canada? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think we're not going to ever get to that point. It could happen. Something could happen with Greenland. I'll be honest, we need that for national and international security. But I think — KRISTEN WELKER: But not with Canada? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – it's highly unlikely. I don't see it with Canada. I just don't see it, I have to be honest with you. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay, but you don't rule it out for Greenland? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And by the way, Canada, they spend less money on military than practically any nation in the world. They pay NATO less than any nation. They think we are subsidizing, they think we are going to protect them, and really, we are. But the truth is, they don't carry their full share, and it's unfair to the United States and our taxpayers. KRISTEN WELKER: But you are not ruling out military force to take Greenland one day? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't rule it out. I don't say I'm going to do it, but I don't rule out anything. No, not there. We need Greenland very badly. Greenland is a very small amount of people, which we'll take care of, and we'll cherish them, and all of that. But we need that for international security. Do you know, we have Russian boats and we have Chinese boats, gun ships all over the place — aircraft carriers, gun ships — going up and down the coast of Greenland. We need that to be protected. Internationally we need it. KRISTEN WELKER: So you are willing to send U.S. troops to claim a sovereign territory? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I didn't say that. You asked me a question, 'Would you, is there a circumstance?' It could happen. I doubt it will, but it certainly could happen with respect to Greenland. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Let me ask you about Iran. Your administration has had conversations with Iran. Is the goal of these talks limiting Iran's nuclear program or total dismantlement? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Total dismantlement. KRISTEN WELKER: That's all you'll accept? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, that's all I'd accept. Now, there's a new theory going out there that Iran would be allowed to have civilian — meaning to make electricity and to — but I say, you know, they have so much oil, what do they need it for? But you know, I've seen it with other states, where they're looking to do something and they have a lot of oil. Iran has tremendous energy. You know I put sanctions, if you know that, I put pretty strong sanctions on two days ago, on the oil. The sad part is that if Biden didn't get involved, if we had a competent president, you would've never had the attack on Israel. October 7th would've never taken place. Hamas would've had no money. Because Iran was broke. And now in a period of four years, during the Biden administration, they became very rich. They have over $300 million cash in the bank. And they had no money. They were ready to make a deal with me, and it's very sad. Because of this rigged election they didn't do it. Just another thing you can mark down to a bad election. KRISTEN WELKER: It's interesting what you're saying, though. Because Secretary Rubio has said that he would accept, or the idea is that there is an openness to accepting a peaceful, civil nuclear program. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well that's what people — I didn't say anything contradictory. I said that people are talking about that. And this is something that's really pretty new in the dialogue. And I'd have to be, you know, my inclination is to say, 'What do you need that for? You have a lot of oil.' KRISTEN WELKER: So you want total dismantlement, bottom line? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think that I would be open to hearing it, you know? Civilian energy, it's called. But you know, civilian energy often leads to military wars. And we don't wanna have them have a nuclear weapon. It's a very simple deal. I want Iran to be really successful, really great, really fantastic. The only thing they can't have is a nuclear weapon. If they want to be successful, that's okay. I want them to be so successful. And you know, the Iranian people are incredible. I just don't want them to have a nuclear weapon because the world will be destroyed. KRISTEN WELKER: Just to recap, we're talking about your desire to claim Canada, Greenland. What do you say to people — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You forgot the Panama Canal. KRISTEN WELKER: Panama Canal. What do you say to people who say they voted for you because they wanted you to end foreign conflicts, not start new ones? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't see that as conflict. I think that's good for our country, those things. Look, the Panama Canal was taken over by China, effectively. Now China seems to have left. But the Panama Canal — think of this deal. We built the most expensive object we've ever built in the history of our country. That was Mount McKinley, they just took away, I just gave it back the name. But, McKinley made the money, Teddy Roosevelt spent the money. McKinley takes gets very little credit, you know but you know how he made the money? Through tariffs. He was the big tariff president. Okay, but forget that. We built the Panama Canal. It was the most expensive thing. It would be the equivalent, like, almost $2 trillion today. We've never spent there — and it was very successful. And Jimmy Carter gave it away for $1. KRISTEN WELKER: Panama insists they — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: This is the kind of leadership — KRISTEN WELKER: Panama says they do control the canal. But we have a couple more questions left, and I'm getting a little wrap. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Panama said what? Panama said what? KRISTEN WELKER: Panama says they still control it. I know you're saying China. Panama says they still control it. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know, if you would have gone there about 5.2 months ago, every single sign on the Panama Canal, with the exception of about 15% of them, was in Chinese. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. Let me ask you, because we're nearing the end, just a couple more questions here. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm not complaining. You keep saying to me like I'm rushing — KRISTEN WELKER: No, you're not. And I really appreciate it. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't want to rush you. I don't want to make you nervous. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you. The Trump organization is selling hats that say, 'Trump 2028.' PRES. DONALD TRUMP Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: Are you seriously considering a third term, Mr. President, even though it's prohibited by the Constitution? Or is this about staying politically viable? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I will say this. So many people want me to do it. I have never had requests so strong as that. But it's something that, to the best of my knowledge, you're not allowed to do. I don't know if that's constitutional that they're not allowing you to do it or anything else. But, there are many people selling the 2028 hat. But this is not something I'm looking to do. I'm looking to have four great years and turn it over to somebody, ideally a great Republican, a great Republican to carry it forward. But I think we're going to have four years, and I think four years is plenty of time to do something really spectacular. KRISTEN WELKER: The Constitution does prohibit it. Have you — some of your allies are pretty serious about this, though, Mr. President. And I've spoken to them. They say they are coming up with potential ways, obviously the biggest one would be a constitutional amendment. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: That's because they like the job I'm doing, and it's a compliment. It's really a great compliment. KRISTEN WELKER: Has anyone approached you, though, with an actual plan, a way to actually start the process of a constitutional amendment? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, there are ways of doing it. There are ways of doing it. And you know the same thing. And if you look at the vice presidential thing, and you hear different concepts and different other people say, 'You can have a write-in vote.' There's lots of different things. With all of that being said, I want to be a great president. I will have served — hopefully everything will go well. I feel very good. I just did a physical. I took — unlike all other presidents, I took cognitive tests and I aced it. I got 100% correct. And the doctor, one doctor said — there were numerous doctors watching. And he said, 'I've never seen that before.' Biden didn't take a cognitive — he couldn't have gotten the first question right. But I came out great with the physical, both physically and mentally. And I just want to serve, do a great job. I'll be an eight-year president, I'll be a two-term president. I always thought that was very important, to be honest with you. You know, if you look at President Polk, he was a one-termer and he did some great things, actually. Pretty good president. And I'm not saying you can't do that. But, there's something about being a two-term president that was very important to me. KRISTEN WELKER: And just to put a button on it, has anyone in an official capacity presented you with, 'Sir, here are some ideas by which you could actually get a constitutional amendment?' PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, in a capacity of being a big supporter, many people have said different things — KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But, I'm not looking at that. KRISTEN WELKER: You haven't had official meetings about it? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. And — and just so you understand, four years is a long time. I have almost four years. You know, all of these things that we've done, we've done more than any president — and even you might admit that. Nobody's done the extent of — of the things that we've done. Nobody's done this, in essentially a little bit more than three months. As they say, 100 days. I'm looking to do a great job as president, and set the country on the right track. Because if I didn't win, this country would've failed. We would've been a failed nation. KRISTEN WELKER: You have built a political movement that has transformed the Republican Party — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Greatest in history. KRISTEN WELKER: It's transformed the country — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: The greatest — KRISTEN WELKER: – quite frankly. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – political movement in history, MAGA. KRISTEN WELKER: When you — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Make America Great Again. KRISTEN WELKER: When you look to the future, Mr. President, do you think the MAGA movement can survive without you as its leader? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yes, I do. KRISTEN WELKER: What gives you confidence? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think it's so strong. And I think we have tremendous people. I think we have a tremendous group of people. We talked about a number of them. You look at Marco, you look at JD Vance, who's fantastic. You look at — I could name 10, 15, 20 people right now just sitting here. No, I think we have a tremendous party. And you know what I can't name? I can't name one Democrat. I mean, I look at the Democrats, they're in total disarray. They have a new person named Crockett. I watched her speak the other day. She's definitely a low IQ person. And they said she's the future of the party. I said, 'You have to be kidding.' I don't know what they're going to do. And I really believe in a two-party system. I really — because it's good to be challenged. It's really good to have a two-party — you know, it's good. Being challenged is okay. It keeps you sharp. I don't know what they're going to do. They have nobody. Bernie's 87 years old or something. And you know, Biden is the worst thing that ever happened to old people because he was grossly incompetent. And I think maybe for artificial reasons. You know, he had operations and things. So maybe that's an artificial — but I know people that are unbelievably sharp and they're older than 87. But I watch Bernie Sanders. He's a nut job, but he's still sharp. He's sharp as — he's the same guy he was. He hasn't gone down. But Biden is really — he's the worst thing to happen to old people. KRISTEN WELKER: I know that you are only 100 days in, but as we sit here today, who do you see as your successor, Mr. President? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I — it's far too early to say that. But you know, I do have a vice president, and typically — and JD's doing a fantastic job. It — KRISTEN WELKER: He would be at the top of the list? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It — it could very well be — I — I don't want to get involved in that. I think he's a fantastic, brilliant guy. Marco is great. There's a lot of them that are great. I — I also see tremendous unity. But certainly you would say that somebody's the VP, if that person is outstanding, I guess that person would have an advantage. But I think the other people would all stay in unbelievably high positions. But you know, it could be that he'd be challenged by somebody. We have a lot of good people in this party. KRISTEN WELKER: Mr. President, thank you for having us here at Mar-a- PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, thank you. KRISTEN WELKER: – Lago. What does Mar-a-Lago mean to you? It's a special place. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It is a special — there's no place like it. You look no matter where — it's just — there's nothing like it. And it's become really the heart of Florida in a way but certainly the heart of Palm Beach, which is an important place. And I just don't think there's anything more beautiful in this country than Mar-a-Lago as, you know, as a physical object. It's been amazing, and it's been very successful and very special. KRISTEN WELKER: It's the winter White House. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It is. It was built, you know by — KRISTEN WELKER: Or it was built, essentially, for that reason. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – E.F. Hutton and Marjorie Merriweather Post. They were married. He was the biggest man on Wall Street, and she was the richest woman in the world actually. And they built it together. And it just — they picked the best site. They picked the best architects. They had unlimited money, and they built it. Now it's a — it's a very special place. And Palm Beach likes me because I saved it. Most of these places were ripped down and 10 or 15 or 20 houses, mansions — beautiful mansions also but much smaller — they were built on those sites. And I was able to save this, which is very important. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, and I know that you were just in Michigan. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Right. KRISTEN WELKER: You were just talking to folks in Michigan to mark 100 days. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Right. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you anticipate doing more travel across the country? And what do you do to stay in touch with the workers who elected you, sir? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, I just went to a great place, University of Alabama, last night. This was some unbelievable evening. And I gave the commencement address, and it's, like, different. Everybody was so awake, so lively, so — so attractive. And I'm not talking just physically attractive, just there was such an energy in the room. And it was really nice. You know, I won Alabama by many, many, many points. And they asked me to do it. And they put all of their — they had nine different, you know, business and law and this and that, all those different things. They put them all — journalism by the way — they put them all together, and we were in the big — that big arena. And it was tremendous energy. And — and that's a little bit, you know, to your question, yeah, I think I get out quite a bit. I went to Michigan. I went — KRISTEN WELKER: You think you'll do more in these second 100 days? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think I will. But we're talking about the great, big, beautiful bill, you know, that we're trying to get passed. It'll be the biggest tax cuts in the history of our country, and hopefully it'll get done. And the Democrats are fighting us. And if it doesn't get done, it's going to be a 68% tax increase. So that's going to be the Democrats. But I think we're going to have it done. I think the Republicans are going to vote for it. And it'll be the most consequential bill I think in the history of our country. KRISTEN WELKER: Leader Thune says he wants to get it done by July 4th. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: Do you think that's possible? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I think it is, and I think he's doing a fantastic job. And Mike Johnson, Speaker, is doing a fantastic job, and they're both getting together well. There's great unity in the Republican Party. The Republican Party's a much different party than it was. KRISTEN WELKER: What happens if it comes to your desk, has the tax cuts, but also cuts to Medicaid? Would you veto that? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, we're not doing that. No, we're not — KRISTEN WELKER: Would you veto that? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I would if they were cutting it, but they're not cutting it. They're looking at fraud, waste and abuse. And nobody minds that. If illegal immigrants are in the mix, if people that aren't supposed to be there, people that are non-citizens are in the mix, nobody minds that. Waste, fraud and abuse. But we're not cutting Medicaid, we're not cutting Medicare, and we're not cutting Social Security. KRISTEN WELKER: You also unveiled a budget. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: Deep cuts in some social services. What do you say to folks who may look at these cuts and say, 'It's going to impact education. It could impact people who rely on services for the poor?' PRES DONALD TRUMP: Well, from what I understand — and first of all, the budget is a very preliminary instrument — KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. PRES DONALD TRUMP: – and I think that when it's all said and done you're going to see a wonderful budget for everybody, really everybody. I would actually say the middle class probably goes to the fore, and it's about time. But we took care of the middle class during my — during the original Trump tax cuts we really took care of the middle class. The people with the least amount of money actually were the biggest — and this isn't just the middle class. The least amount of money, the poorest people, proportionately gained the most. And that's what we're looking to do here. KRISTEN WELKER: So you're not concerned about it impacting education and other services? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: No. It depends what education. If you're talking about Harvard, which has a — KRISTEN WELKER: No, no, I'm talking about education — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – $53 billion in the bank because of a lot of things that they've been able to do and that the government help them with. That's different. But, no, not education. We're bringing education back to the states. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me talk to you about TikTok — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know, that's a big thing because education coming back to the states is a very big thing. We're going to bring it back. The United States does not do well with education. We're number 37, 38, 39 and 40 out of 40. And we're going to bring it back to the states and we're going to go to among the top ten I believe. KRISTEN WELKER: Let me ask you about TikTok, sir. Would you extend that deadline if there's still no deal? You already — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I would. KRISTEN WELKER: – put one extension — you would? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, I would. KRISTEN WELKER: So, you're going to — you want to see a deal? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'd like to see it done. I have a little sweet spot in my heart because, as you know, I won young people by 36 points. That's a lot. No Republican ever won young people, and I won it by 36 points, and I focused on TikTok. So perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I have a little warm spot in my heart for TikTok. TikTok is — it's very interesting, but it'll be protected. It'll be very strongly protected. But if it needs an extension, I would be willing to give it an extension, might not need it. KRISTEN WELKER: But where are discussions? Is it close to a deal? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well we're not — KRISTEN WELKER: Is someone close to — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. Yeah, we — KRISTEN WELKER: – purchasing it? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – actually have a deal. We have a group of purchasers, very substantial people. They're going to pay a lot of money. It's a good thing for us. It's a good thing for China. It's going to be, I think, very good. But because of the fact that I've essentially cut off China right now with the tariffs that are so high that they're not going to be able to do much business with the United States. But if we make a deal with China I'm sure that'll be a subject, and it'll be a very easy subject to solve. KRISTEN WELKER: We're talking about your agenda, your budget bill, your tax bill, and you think about the next big test, which is the midterms. How do you see your role in the midterms? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I'm going to be very active. I've raised a lot of money for congressmen and senators that I think are good — really good people. We have some great Republican congressmen and women and senators that love this country, and they're not lunatics like some of these Democrats. What they're doing to the country is incredible. It's insane. There's something wrong with them. They suffer a major case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I mean, it doesn't — nothing matters to them other than that. Yeah, I'm going to be much involved. The interesting thing is — and nobody can explain why — but when somebody wins the presidency they seem to lose Congress. They seem to lose the House and the Senate or — KRISTEN WELKER: How concerned are you about that? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I don't know why it would be. I think we should do better. But if you look it's pretty consistent that whoever wins the presidency ends up losing the House, losing the Senate. I think we're going to turn that around. I think we're going to turn it around easy. It should be the opposite. If we do a good job, let's say as president if I do a good job, it should be the opposite. So hopefully we'll dispel that. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, it looks like you're also looking at the history books. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: How concerned are you about losing one or both chambers? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It's a long way away. It's a long way. You know, we're in here for a little more than three months. We have a long way to go. I've raised a lot of money. We're having a fundraiser at Mar-a-Lago tonight for exactly that purpose. We want to win the House in bigger numbers. But, you know, we had a one majority three months ago. Now we have seven because we won a few races. I guess you know that. But we won a few races. But we're up seven now, and we're up — we have 53 senators. And I think we're going to be in very good position. I expect to win by a bigger margin than we have now. KRISTEN WELKER: If you do lose one chamber, are there areas where you think you could find common ground with Democrats? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, there should be, but they seem to be stone cold. Look — KRISTEN WELKER: Is there anything — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – the one — KRISTEN WELKER: – in your mind though? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – thing I will say about the Democrats, they stick together. They have horrible policy. Men in women's sports, transgender for everyone, open borders. The craziest policies I've ever seen. But regardless of how crazy they are, they stick together. And I respect that. I think it's a great thing. And I think the Republicans are starting to do that also. KRISTEN WELKER: So looking forward, sir, one of the big features of your first administration was the first lady. She had her 'Be Best' campaign. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Right. KRISTEN WELKER: Will people start to see more of her? Will she come back — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah — KRISTEN WELKER: – with her 'Be Best' campaign, for example? Can you give us a little — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. KRISTEN WELKER: – bit of a preview of what we can see? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, as an example, she did a book and she was number one bestseller for a long time, for many, many weeks. The people love her. She's a very private person, which I respect a lot. She doesn't have to be out. I know people where they have wives in politics and the wife wants to be in front of the husband all day long, waving to everybody. She's got great confidence in herself and she doesn't need that. But when she goes out. We were out, as you know, last weekend. It was an amazing, amazing day. The people love her. They really respect her, and they love her. Yeah, she'll be very much involved. KRISTEN WELKER: And that's part of why I'm asking you. I mean, can people expect to see her revive her 'Be Best' campaign? Can you give — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, she is — KRISTEN WELKER: – us a little preview? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, it's still a campaign that's very important to her, and it's sort of a cute name, 'Be Best.' I said, 'That's a strange name,' but it's really beautiful and it sort of, you know, means something now that I didn't understand, lot of people didn't understand. And she's done a great job. She's raised a lot of money. She cares a lot about people, really cares a lot about people — KRISTEN WELKER: When you and I talked in December we talked about the fact that in this second administration your family is not there. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, that was — KRISTEN WELKER: And they were really some of your closest advisors — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. Sure. KRISTEN WELKER: What is it like to be there and are they still, I would imagine, your closest advisors? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: They're with me all the way. But I think they were treated very unfairly. Ivanka worked so hard on getting jobs for people. You know, I wanted to make her the head of — the ambassador to the United Nations. There would be nobody that would be better than her. She said, 'Dad, I don't want to do that. I just want to get' — you know, she worked on getting people jobs. It sounds good in one way, but it doesn't sound as exciting as other jobs. And she just wanted to do that. And she got hundreds of thousands of jobs for people. It made her so happy. She's a good person. The way they went after Don and Eric, I said, 'Just relax,' because I thought it was unfair. They went after these kids, and they're really good. And they're no longer kids, but they're always going to be my kids. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: They were treated so unfairly. KRISTEN WELKER: Barron's in college now. How is he liking college? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Right. KRISTEN WELKER: How's he doing? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: He's a great student. He's doing very well, goes to a great school. But he's doing really well. KRISTEN WELKER: And is there any challenge being in college, having your dad as president of the United States? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, you'll have to ask him someday that, but we try and make it as normal as possible. There's nothing normal about it. But he's a very great guy and wonderful kid. KRISTEN WELKER: Your birthday's coming up. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: And there are reports that you're looking into the possibility of a military — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah — KRISTEN WELKER: — parade. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Not for my birthday. KRISTEN WELKER: When can you tell — when would it be? What can you tell me? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, my birthday happens to be on Flag Day. So — KRISTEN WELKER: Well, there you go — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – I think they're talking about Flag Day. But I view it for Flag Day, not necessarily my birthday. Somebody put it together. But no, I think we're going to do something on June 14th maybe or somewhere around there. But I think June 14th, it's a very important day. It's Flag Day, plus we're going to have different days. You know, if you look at Russia, they celebrate Victory Day. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: If you look at France, I was talking to Prime Minister Macron and he says, 'Yes, there's Victory Day, Victory Day.' And I say, 'Victory Day for what?' 'World War II.' I said, 'Well, we had more to do with winning World War II than any other nation. Why don't we have a Victory Day?' So we're going to have a Victory Day for World War I and for World War II. KRISTEN WELKER: And will it be a military parade? What can people expect? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: And you have breaking news because nobody knows this. We're going to have Victory Day for World War I and for World War II. Well, it's going to start off by saying, 'It's Victory Day,' because, you know, when other nations, some of which weren't even very successful in the war, they have Victory Days and the United States doesn't. And we're the one that won those wars with the help of others, with the help of others. But we're going to have a Victory Day for I and II. KRISTEN WELKER: But one day, right? Both on one day? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Maybe not because — KRISTEN WELKER: Oh, really? More than one day? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, they took place on very different days, you know. They're about six months apart. So I think you can have two days. This doesn't mean we're going to go and not work and have a national holiday and all of that because we don't have many of those days left. You know, eventually our country will become all national holidays. But we're going to acknowledge by having days for World War I victory and World War II victory — KRISTEN WELKER: And just paint a picture for me. What will those parades look like? Will it be military parades? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You mean, like, on Flag Day? KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We're going to have a big, beautiful parade. KRISTEN WELKER: A military parade? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, sure. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: We're going to celebrate our military. We have the greatest military in the world — KRISTEN WELKER: What's the price tag? Do you know? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Peanuts compared to the value of doing it. We have the greatest missiles in the world. We have the greatest submarines in the world. We have the greatest army tanks in the world. We have the greatest weapons in the world. And we're going to celebrate it. KRISTEN WELKER: And, sir, finally, you've talked about the fact that you're putting some of your own touches on the White House — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: Anything that you can share about what you may be planning for the White House? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Sure. KRISTEN WELKER: What's going to look different? I know you are thinking about making the Rose Garden look a little bit different. Anything you can share? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Well, the problem with the Rose Garden is the grass is always soaking wet and you can't use it for news conferences. You're supposed to have news conferences, meetings, all this in the Rose Garden. So we're going to put a beautiful stone surface down so that people — for instance, we had something the other day and it actually didn't rain for three or four days and the women were still getting stuck in the grass. And we want to put it to work. So we're going to do something in terms of a hard surface. It'll look beautiful, you know — KRISTEN WELKER: And where will it be specifically? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Where the grass is, where there's — KRISTEN WELKER: Where the grass is — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – grass is. There's grass in the middle. The roses stay. Everything stays just the way it was, including the limestone paths and everything else. But we had the prime minister of India here and they had a lot of press, and the women were walking out with their shoes full of mud. So we can't have that. The other thing — and you see what I've done to the Oval Office and that continues, 24-carat gold. It's beautiful. And we have really gotten — because I know that people can be fresh and nasty, you know, but we've been getting rave reviews. It was not taken care of the way it should. Now, I have an advantage. I was a really good real estate developer so I know how to get things done. I know how to build it. You'll see it in a minute when you look at the ballroom, which I built at Mar-a-Lago. KRISTEN WELKER: Could anything — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But the other thing, and the big thing, is going to be for 50 years they've wanted to build a ballroom at the White House. And they've tried, but the presidents were not real estate people. They had no clue. All you have to do is look at President Obama and look at his museum or library, whatever they call it, in Chicago. It's a catastrophe. It's way over-budget. Maybe it comes to an end. I don't know what's going on. But it's a disaster because — and it's not his fault. He's not a real estate person. He doesn't know how to build. I do really well. And what we're going to do, you're going to see the most beautiful ballroom in the world right now when you take a look. KRISTEN WELKER: Is — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: But we are going to make and build a ballroom, which they've wanted for probably a hundred years at the White House. And it'll be a world-class, beautiful ballroom, and they'll use the meeting rooms already existing. And we're going to get that started over the next few months, and it's going to be beautiful. And it'll be done properly, and I will fund it. KRISTEN WELKER: Will you bring — you will fund it? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. Yeah, I'm not going to ask the government for money. I'll fund it, and I'm sure we'll have some donations to it. But it's not an inexpensive thing. It'll cost a lot of money. KRISTEN WELKER: Where will it be? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: It'll be near the — I guess you would say the East Wing, near the East Wing, a little complicated to explain without a drawing. But we have three or four different concepts, and we're working with great architects, with great planners. And it will be something really beautiful, top of the line. KRISTEN WELKER: Finally, sir — PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know, when they have a party for, like, when the head of China comes in — KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: – or the head of anybody, you know, head of anything, they have a party where they have a tent 200 yards away, where people have to walk in the rain to get to a tent. And that's not for us. That's not for the United States of America. KRISTEN WELKER: I know you — you're only 100 days into this second term, but have you thought about what you want your legacy to be? PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I want my legacy to be very much as the name of MAGA and what it represents. It's called 'Make America Great Again.' We were a great country for a period of time, and the last four years have been a disaster for the reputation of this country and for the fact of the country. It's been a disaster. We're going to make America great again. That's all I want to do. I want to make it greater than ever before. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you, Mr. President. PRES. DONALD TRUMP: Thank you very much. KRISTEN WELKER: Appreciate it. This article was originally published on
