Rubio tries to reassure wary allies of US commitment to NATO as Trump sends mixed signals - War in Ukraine
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio and the Trump administration's new envoy to NATO are seeking to reassure wary NATO allies of the U.S. commitment to the alliance.
Rubio on Thursday decried 'hysteria and hyperbole' in the media about President Donald Trump's intentions despite persistent signals from Washington that NATO as it has existed for 75 years may no longer be relevant.
Rubio and newly confirmed U.S. ambassador to NATO Matt Whitaker are in Brussels for a meeting of alliance foreign ministers at which many are hoping Rubio will shed light on U.S. security plans in Europe.
'The United States is as active in NATO as it has ever been,' Rubio told reporters as he greeted NATO chief Mark Rutte before the meeting began. 'And some of this hysteria and hyperbole that I see in the global media and some domestic media in the United States about NATO is unwarranted.'
'President Trump's made clear he supports NATO,' Rubio said. 'We're going to remain in NATO.'
'We want NATO to be stronger, we want NATO to be more visible and the only way NATO can get stronger, more visible is if our partners, the nation states that comprise this important alliance, have more capability,' he said.
In a statement, Whitaker said that 'under President Trump's leadership, NATO will be stronger and more effective than ever before, and I believe that a robust NATO can continue to serve as a bedrock of peace and prosperity.' But he added: 'NATO's vitality rests on every ally doing their fair share.'
Concerns about US commitment to allies
Despite those words, European allies and Canada are deeply concerned by Trump's readiness to draw closer to Russian leader Vladimir Putin, who sees NATO as a threat as the U.S. tries to broker a ceasefire in Ukraine, his rhetorical attacks and insults against on allies like Canada and Denmark.
And Trump's Wednesday imposition of new global tariffs, which will affect allies, have added to the uncertainty and unease.
Asked about concerns among European allies about a possible U.S. troop drawdown and the importance of getting clear messages from the Trump administration, Rutte said: 'These issues are not new. There are no plans for them to all of a sudden draw down their presence here in Europe.'
Indeed, the Trump administration has not made its NATO allies aware any plans it might have. But several European countries are convinced that U.S. troops and equipment will be withdrawn, and they want to find out from Rubio how many and when so they can fill any security gaps.
'We need to preempt a rapid retreat, but we've had nothing precise from the U.S. yet,' a senior NATO diplomat said ahead of the meeting, briefing reporters on his country's expectations on condition that he not be named.
Rutte's dilemma
Rutte is in a bind. European allies and Canada have tasked him with keeping the United States firmly in NATO. Around 100,000 U.S. troops are stationed in Europe along with the Navy's 6th Fleet and nuclear warheads. U.S. firepower ensures that NATO's ability to deter Russia is credible.
This means he cannot openly criticize Trump, who is commander in chief of NATO's biggest and best-equipped armed forces.
What is clear, is that U.S. allies must ramp up defense spending even more than they already have since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine 3 years ago, so that they can defend Europe with less American help and keep Ukraine's armed forces in the fight.
'The U.S expects European allies to take more responsibility for their own security,' Dutch Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp said, which means that 'European NATO countries rapidly have to strengthen the European pillar of NATO and have to increase their defense spending.'
Since Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth warned last month that U.S. security priorities lie elsewhere — in Asia and on the U.S.'s own borders — the Europeans have waited to learn how big a military drawdown in Europe could be and how fast it may happen.
In Europe and Canada, governments are working on 'burden shifting' plans to take over more of the load, while trying to ensure that no security vacuum is created if U.S. troops and equipment are withdrawn from the continent.
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And we are just receiving word from our L.A. bureau correspondent Nidia Cavazos that activists are calling for a – quote – 'mass mobilization' there later today. So we will continue to monitor the developing story. We go now to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, who joins us from her home state of South Dakota. Good morning to you, Madam Secretary. KRISTI NOEM (U.S. Homeland Security Secretary): Good morning. Thank you for inviting me, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we are seeing from the president's proclamation that he can federalize, he says, 2,000 California National Guard forces for 60 days under Title 10 authorities. Which units are being deployed? Are they military police, and exactly what are their orders? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Yes, President Trump is putting the safety of the communities that are being impacted by these riots and by these protests that have turned violent, and he's putting the safety of our law enforcement officers first. So these 2,000 National Guard soldiers that are being engaged today are ones that are specifically trained for this type of crowd situation, where they will be with the public and be able to provide safety around buildings and to those that are engaged in peaceful protests, and also to our law enforcement officers, so they can continue their daily work. MARGARET BRENNAN: So our CBS team is reporting that the California National Guard officers are at that Edward Roybal Center in L.A. This is a plaza with a federal building. Courtrooms are there, a processing center, a detention center, a veterans clinic. Are the soldiers going to remain around the federal building? Are you planning to have them go throughout the city of Los Angeles? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: I won't speak specifically to all the locations where the National – National Guard soldiers will be deployed to or where they will be conducting different operations as far as security concerns. They're there at the direction of the president in order to keep peace and allow people to be able to protest, but also to keep law and order. That is incredibly important to the president. He recognizes he was elected to make sure that every single person in this country was treated exactly the same, and that we would enforce the laws. And that is what ICE is doing every day as they're out on our streets and working to go after bad criminals and people that have perpetuated violence on these communities. The gang members we have picked up in L.A. because of their hard work are horrible people, assault, drug trafficking, human trafficking. They are now off of those streets, and they are safer because these ICE operations are ongoing. Unfortunately, we've seen some violent protests happen, and that's why these National Guard soldiers are being utilized to help with some security in some areas. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, California's governor doesn't want the federalized system here. He says he's got it under control. There's no shortage of law enforcement, Gavin Newsom said. He's called in California Highway Patrol. He says the Trump administration is seeking a spectacle here. He's saying to protesters, don't get violent, don't engage. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, if he was doing his job, then people wouldn't have gotten hurt the last couple of days. We wouldn't have officers with a shattered wrist from bricks being thrown through their vehicles, their vehicles being burned, flags being burned in the street and Molotov cocktails being thrown. Governor Newsom has proven that he makes bad decisions. The president knows that he makes bad decisions, and that's why the president chose the safety of this community over waiting for Governor Newsom to get some sanity. And that's one of the reasons why these National Guard soldiers are being federalized, so they can use their special skill set to keep peace. We're not going to let a repeat of 2020 happen. And, if you remember, it all happened in Tim Walz's state, in Minneapolis (AUDIO GAP) neighboring state and a governor at the time. And Governor Tim Walz made very bad decisions… MARGARET BRENNAN: Well… SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … and then tried to get the (AUDIO GAP) governors to send our National Guard in to bail him out when he let his city burn for days on end. We weren't going to… MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he called the National Guard two days after the protests. But that was a point of contention, I know, in hindsight. President Trump – I'm sorry. (CROSSTALK) SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … in California (AUDIO GAP) happen again. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. President Trump said, masks will not be allowed to be worn at protests. Who's going to enforce? That and how? And how can you justify it when law enforcement officials have their faces covered? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: You know, what I would say is that the law is going to be enforced, and that I – what the laws are in this country is what we are doing. And our ICE officers and our law enforcement officers out there that are in these situations where people have questioned why they have their faces covered, it's for the safety of those individuals or the work that they're doing as far as protecting their identity so they can continue to do investigative work, so… MARGARET BRENNAN: But are you tasking the National Guard soldiers with removing masks from protesters? I mean, are you trying to use them in that way? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: National Guard soldiers are there to provide security for operations and to make sure that we have peaceful protests. So that's what their work is. And I won't get more specific on that, just because we never do when it comes to law enforcement operations. We're doing the same standard procedures we always do and have for years in this country with our National Guard and with our, you know, law enforcement folks that are on the ground working with these communities. MARGARET BRENNAN: So the defense secretary also tweeted last night that he put active-duty Marines at Camp Pendleton on high alert. We know, since you mentioned 2020 that President Trump, during those Black Lives Matter protests at the time had wanted to use active-duty U.S. troops on the streets of a major city. The 82nd Airborne at the time was called up. They were not sent into the streets. What exactly do you set, as homeland security secretary, as your benchmark for when you would counsel the president of the United States to send active-duty troops in to police a domestic disturbance? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, my hope is always that we work with local leaders that would do their jobs. And that is what has failed in L.A., is that the mayor has refused to recognize the dangerous situation that she's perpetuating, as well as the governor. When we ask for backup in a situation, LAPD has waited hours to respond, and they've waited until we have an officer in a dangerous situation until they come in and help us bring peace. Oftentimes, in these cities, you have good leaders that help give backup to other law enforcement officers, but you have politicians who won't give that kind of resource when it's needed. Unfortunately, waiting several hours for LAPD to show up or telling them – them telling us that they're not going to back us up until they have an officer in a dangerous situation… MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … is something that just isn't workable when you have violent protests going on, so I wish… MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.S… SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: (AUDIO GAP) work better with us, but that's one of the reasons that you've seen the National Guard come in and help us with those security operations. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the U.S. Attorney in L.A. told CBS that LAPD did help. LAPD does not… (CROSSTALK) SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: That what has (AUDIO GAP) Margaret, is hours later. They – they waited until we had officers in dangerous situations. Then they responded. Now, if that was my city and I was the mayor… MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … I would be sending (AUDIO GAP) law enforcement in there to back up other law enforcement officers. That's what America's about is, is that we have rules and we have laws. If you don't like the laws, go to Congress and change them. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well… SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Someone should go to Congress and say, change the laws if we don't like what's happening in this country. Do that, instead of throwing rocks and throwing Molotov cocktails and instead of attacking law enforcement officers. MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We're just not going to (AUDIO GAP) anymore. This president cares deeply about family members that want to live in their communities and be safe. MARGARET BRENNAN: Back to the question, though, of active-duty troops, different from the National Guard, what is your personal counsel here to the president? Because it's you, the attorney general and the secretary of defense who are going to have a lot of responsibility here in implementing some of this call to do this. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, let me be clear about something. ICE and Homeland Security are running these operations right now. And the advice and counsel of the attorney general, the Department of Defense are extremely important to the president of the United States, and we never discuss our personal conversations and advice to the president of the United States. He makes the decisions. He is the president that sits in that seat, and we are all very proud to work for him. So I'm grateful for the leadership – leadership of Pete Hegseth and Pam Bondi. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: And I get the chance to work with them. And as (AUDIO GAP) does their job today, we're thankful to have the partnership and the leadership of President Trump. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, some Republican senators, like Senator Lankford, has – have said active-duty Marines are not going to be put into local law enforcement. So there are Republican lawmakers questioning this. To the question about where we are seeing the National Guard troops centered around this Roybal Center, CBS is reporting undocumented immigrants attending their ICE check-ins were being detained and held overnight in the basement of that building. And there were lawyers for some of those detainees claiming it was illegal because the migrants were held in makeshift facilities with limited access to food and water. That was one of the sources of the protest. Can you vouch for these facilities? And do you understand what some of these protesters are concerned about? SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, these protests started long before we ended up in the situations that we saw when we were trying to secure these individuals and the law enforcement officers involved. What I would say is, is getting into individuals in and out of those facilities was extremely challenging when the violence broke out and when things were being thrown at vehicles, and people were rocking vehicles and shaking them, trying to break into them. In fact, we had to send a swift response team in to get a female officer out of her vehicle safely in those situations. So, we are following all the laws and procedures, as we always do. But when you have violence like that, the safety of everybody involved is incredibly important, and we'll make sure that we get people through them without injury as best to our ability. MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Noem, we're going to have to leave that there. Thank you for your time this morning. And we apologize to our viewers about any audio drops you may have heard there. I heard a few myself. Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: We are now joined by Texas Republican Representative Tony Gonzales. Good morning, and good to have you here. REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES (R-Texas): Yeah, thank you for having me. MARGARET BRENNAN: You are always focused on immigration because of your district, but when you're watching what happens out there in L.A., and using federal authorities as they are being used here, are you comfortable with what the president is doing? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Yes, first, happy birthday to my mama, who's back in San Antonio. To your question, yes, I am comfortable with it. It's tragic to see what's happening in L.A. I spent 20 years in the military. I fought in two wars. I fought to give people the freedom to protest whatever the hell they want to, but what we're seeing in L.A. are not advocates. We're seeing anarchists. And the president of the United States should absolutely put down the mob as soon as possible. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. 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The LAPD, as I was reading there, the top federal prosecutor in that city said, LAPD did respond. The sheriff in Paramount said they aren't there to do federal law enforcement, but they did respond when federal authorities were in peril and asked for help. But bringing it to your district, you have a major city. You have San Antonio. You also have rural areas. Is the administration targeting blue cities with blue governors they don't like, or are you seeing similar actions in Texas? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: I think what they're targeting is, they're trying to deport people as fast as they possibly can. What's going to happen is, they're going to – it's going to be across the country. And, once again, this is the tip of the iceberg. Joe Biden took a hatchet. MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean by that? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Joe Biden took a hatchet to the – to the – to an already broken immigration system. Right now, there's over 400,000 asylum seekers that under the last administration had their cases closed without adjudication. They weren't given a yes. They weren't given a no. They just had their cases closed. So, one could argue that these 400,000 people are in this country illegally and should be deported immediately. One could also argue that these 400,000 people did not get proper – you know, an opportunity to state their case, and they didn't – and they didn't have that ability. What I'm worried about is, this thing's going to escalate. It's not going to be just L.A. It'll be cities all over the country, as we continue to deport people. MARGARET BRENNAN: You said back in November the administration would fail if it began going after nonviolent migrants. You said: 'If the message is, we're here to deport your abuelita, this is not going to work well.' You heard our reporting. People are getting arrested going to court appearances, trying to abide by the law. We have these cases of, for example, a 19-year-old high schooler on his way to volleyball team practice in Massachusetts arrested because the student visa had expired, an Afghan soldier in Houston who used to guard American soldiers at bases with eight kids to his name arrested, even though he entered this country with legal status. Are these people the worst of the worst? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: They're not. But – and this is what's going to happen, is, as – as these 400,000 asylum seekers that are in limbo, if you will, start to get deported – Maria, who's 23 years old, that was from Honduras, that was – was told to come to the United States for a better life, and has gotten married and has had children, as she gets ripped from that life and gets sent back to Honduras, it's going to be very painful for us. What I would like for us to do is focus on the – the convicted criminal illegal aliens. Last year, I asked the administration… MARGARET BRENNAN: But is that happening? Because, right now, it looks like they're trying to run up the numbers, frankly. REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Last year, the – I asked the administration what that number was. It was 662,000. Last month, I asked – as of July of last year. Last month, I asked Secretary Noem, under – under oath, I asked her, has that number increased or has that number decreased? She – she responded that the number of convicted criminal illegal aliens has increased. So that means we have over 600,000. We should absolutely focus on that population, the worst of the worst, and make sure that those are the areas that get removed. Otherwise, it's going to take us down this route of constant civil conflict. MARGARET BRENNAN: The vice president used what's happening as an opportunity to say that this massive bill the president wants Congress to pass should get passed quickly. It's got about $46 billion for the border wall, other money for Border Patrol. The Homeland Security chair in the Senate, Rand Paul, was on this program last Sunday. He said, this is too much money. It inflates the cost of the wall eightfold. Should the Senate claw back some of the money that members of the House just passed? (CROSSTALK) REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Well, I don't know if – I don't know if Rand Paul has ever found a bill he's ever liked. And he's probably not wrong, because every bill, it has flaws to it. But there's $168 billion in this bill for border security. That's important, but it's also important that we have oversight to this funds. You can't just write a blank check to the administration and expect them to go out and accomplish these – these are very complicated, difficult tasks. This is where Congress has to come alongside and make sure that those funds are going to the right places, that once again that we're going after these convicted – over 600,000 convicted criminal illegal aliens that everyone you know agrees that, you know, you take those people out of your out of your community, everyone gets safe. That's the area we should focus on. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you voted for this bill… REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Sure. Yes. MARGARET BRENNAN: … the last version of it that the Senate is now tweaking. You're also a fan of Elon Musk. You were on this program like – I think it was back in March, and you said he's like the prime minister of the United States. Sorry, December, I think. Musk said about this bill: 'This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. You know it was wrong.' Are you going to reconsider your vote after – vote after the Senate finishes its review? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Well, one, Elon has done more for humanity and is going to continue to do more. That's why I'm a fan of his. Two is, he speaks without a filter. He's not wrong. You know, that bill had a lot of issues to it. But I don't get it. You know, as a member, I get to say yes or no. I get to make it as best as possible. We got to see what the Senate does. What I'm really concerned is, what is – you know, are they going to touch Medicaid, right? The president has said, don't touch Medicaid. We've come out very early on, a lot of members on the House, to make sure you don't gut programs that work, and how do you give money to the resources where you need it, like border security. So, the Senate's going to do its part. I have got to wait to see the final product before I'm a yes or no, but I think we have a lot of work to do. MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you comfortable with what it does to Medicaid? REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Right now, I mean, from where it was, yes. (CROSSTALK) REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: I'm OK with people having to work in order to – to get benefits. I don't want to see – what I don't want to see is, I don't want to see seniors have – you know, and the most vulnerable of our population have their – have their health care ripped away from them, and I think a lot of that has been clawed back. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will watch the developing news on this front. Thank you, Congressman. REPRESENTATIVE TONY GONZALES: Thanks, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Minnesota Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar, who joins us from Minneapolis. Good morning, Senator. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-Minnesota): Thanks, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: You heard Secretary Noem say, what's happening in L.A. and the decisions being made about it at the federal level have to do with what happened in 2020 in Minneapolis and what she called the missteps of your governor, Tim Walz, at the time. You lived through all that. What would you advise Governor Newsom to do out in California now? SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: Every governor is going to make their own decisions based on the situation. In this case, Governor Newsom has made clear that he wants local law enforcement protecting the citizens, and he has asked the president not to inflame the situation. In Governor Walz's case, as you pointed out in the earlier segment, he did bring in the National Guard. I would also point out that, on January 6, I was there as well, and what I saw there was, the president didn't bring in the National Guard when over 100 police officers were injured or hurt or worse. And so I think it is quite, let's say, ironic probably doesn't fit this situation, when you have got administration officials talking about protecting police officers after what happened on January 6. And when I look at what's going on in California or across the country, of course, as the congressman said, you want to get dangerous criminals out of our midst, out of our communities. But when you look at where the American people are, they want to make sure you follow the law and that there's due process, and you don't want to inflame things by threatening to bring in the Marines or deporting people based on a mistake. MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, we're going to take a quick break and continue this conversation. You have such a key role in oversight of law enforcement on the Judiciary. We'll be right back. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We return now to our conversation with Senator Klobuchar. Senator, it seems that the president's use of the National Guard, as he's federalizing them, is somewhat novel. It's the first time since 1965 a president has activated a state's National Guard without a request from the governor. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Correct. MARGARET BRENNAN: That's according to the Brennan Center for Justice. What concerns do you have about going in this direction? It's about 60 days that have been authorized in the proclamation he signed last night. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: My concern, of course, is that this inflames the situation and that he is hellbent on inflaming the situations. Individual governors look at their states. They make decisions. But in this case, the president, time and time again, has shown this willingness to, one, violate the law, as we've seen across the country in many different situations outside of the immigration context. And two, inflame situations. So, what do I think he should be doing right now? Who do I think he should be bringing in? I think he should be bringing in economists to talk to him right now about what's happening with the debt and with his big, beautiful betrayal of the middle class, to be talking to him about what's going on with the tariffs and how they are hurting small businesses. I think he should be bringing in the people that I talk to every day, regular people, farmers whose markets are drying up, people who are worried about their moms or their grandmas getting kicked out of their assisted living because of his Medicaid cuts. When Josh Hawley calls this morally bereft, that it's immoral to make these Medicaid cuts, and when Elon Musk comes in and says that this is a disgusting abomination, this bill, and when it is now triggering, get this, Medicare cuts, something that hasn't been discussed yet, because it adds so much to the deficit that rural hospitals are going to get cut, I think that's who he should be listening to right now, instead of his constant effort for shock and awe and trying to distract people what they care about most, which is the economy and their family situation. MARGARET BRENNAN: We will – we're going to talk about some of those very issues with Kevin Hassett, one of the president's top economic advisers, shortly, including that idea of Medicare being touched, which is – is being floated, but we – we haven't heard from the administration on in detail. But – but the president's putting immigration front and center here. We've seen in our polling that at least before what happened in L.A. that this was broadly supported, 54 percent of Americans like his deportation policies. I'm – I'm worry – I'm wondering how much you worry that this puts Democrats on the back foot. That you are put in the position of defending someone like Abrego Garcia, who was just brought back to the United States from El Salvador and is now being charged by the Justice Department on these claims that he was involved somehow in human trafficking. This is that Maryland man who was, according to the Justice Department, wrongly sent to a prison in El Salvador on suspicion of being a member of a gang, which his family denied. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: So, Democrats believe in public safety. As a former prosecutor, I spent a lot of my life work working with law enforcement. And that means you don't inflame things and make it worse. And that is that you make sure that violent criminals aren't in our midst. But even when you look at your own poll that just came out this morning, a – a strong majority of people believe that people should at least have – follow the rule of law and have due process so people aren't mistakenly deported. When I look at the Abrego Garcia case, I see two things. The first is that – that you have to follow the law. The second is, the charges will be dealt with in the justice system. That's how this works. And, of course, they should have done that at the get go and not wrongfully deported him and handled the charges in our country. But in the end, to me, this is about the rule of law and enforcing the laws. And again, when I look at your polling, 70 percent of the people said that while they – a number of them will support deporting violent criminals, I support that, OK. MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: But 70 percent of them said that these policies either don't help with the economy or they weaken the economy. They are not there. They want this president – they voted for him, a bunch of them in the middle, who in my state also voted for me, they want him to see bring down costs. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: They don't want him to be kicking old people out of assisted living or cut the food assistance for veterans. They want him to be working on things that help them in their daily lives. That's what also comes out in your polling numbers. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. As you know, Republicans say they're not cutting Medicaid, they're making it more efficient. But – but we will talk to Kevin Hassett about some of the specifics of – of what you just raised there. In our poll, though, our – it also shows, among – among those polled, that congressional Democrats are overwhelmingly seen as ineffective in challenging Trump. Seventy-one percent of Democrats say their leaders are ineffective. You are in Democratic leadership. Why are they wrong? SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: So, when you look at what's happening here, Trump is doing some really bad things to people, right? Small businesses are closing down, the economy has retracted in the first quarter. And when I get out there talking to independents, Republicans or Democrats, they're basically saying the same thing, they're really scared of what's happening right now to their families and they want to see leadership. So, we cannot be the party of the status quo, that is for certain. And I'm actually really excited about our new candidates that are going to be running in the midterms. The recruiting is going on. And when you look at the actual facts, the actual numbers, look over at my neighbors over in Wisconsin for the Supreme Court race where ten Trump counties were flipped from red to blue because people have had it with this. Or look at some of the legislative races around the country, Margaret. Our constituents are standing up and we are by their side, whether they're Democrats, moderate Republicans or independents. They are showing up at rallies. They are voting. That's the number one most important thing. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: Democratic attorney generals are bringing cases in court that the public supports. They don't want to see veterinarians eliminated – eliminated from the USDA or they don't want to see funding frozen for cancer trials. And then you look at Congress. We are holding them accountable with votes. All we need is four Republicans to stand up against what Josh Hawley calls immoral Medicaid cuts. Just four of them. All we need is four Republicans to stand up against these food assistance that throws millions of people, veterans, seniors, kids – 40 percent of the people that get food assistance are kids – to stand up against shifting money over to the states so Pennsylvania would suddenly get – MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: Would suddenly get a huge amount, millions of dollars, shifted over to them, or over in North Carolina. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: Where you've seen 500 – over 500 million shifted. People need to stand up. The Republicans need to stand up. To me, that's leadership. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: Not defending the status quo for our party, but moving forward with a forward-thinking agenda and – MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR: And new energy. MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Understand. Senator Klobuchar, thank you your time today. We'll be right back. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by the director of the National Economic Council, Kevin Hassett. He joins us from the White House. Good morning to you. KEVIN HASSETT (Director, National Economic Council): Hey, Margaret. Good morning. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I do want to allow you to respond to some of the very specific criticisms that Senator Klobuchar made. One of the things she brought up was something that, frankly, the Senate majority leader seemed to acknowledge was under discussion, and that was touching Medicare. Making some kind of adjustment. He said, anything we can do that's waste, fraud and abuse is open to discussion. Is the White House open to any discussion around Medicare? KEVIN HASSETT: Well, first of all, what's happening is that the senators, respecting the legislative process, are discussing what they think that they can put on the table. And the president has made it clear that ending waste, fraud and abuse and giving benefits to illegals and giving benefits to people who are able-bodied workers, those are his high priorities. If the Senate comes up with other things they'd like us to look at, I guess – I guess we would have a look at them. But there have been a lot of false stories about Medicare being on the table. And it's totally not on the table. The way that that was covered in the news a couple of weeks ago was that in the end, when the budget process ends, if they don't waive the budget caps, then there's going to be reductions across the board in spending. And that's what no one would intend and no Democrat would vote for that. But that was covered as our intent to go after Medicare, and that was a big, fake news story last week. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, so Leader Thune and – and Leader Johnson have – and Speaker Johnson have said anything with waste, fraud and abuse. But you, right now, are taking – KEVIN HASSETT: Waste, fraud and abuse. Waste, fraud and abuse is – is the same (ph). MARGARET BRENNAN: But to be – understood. But you are taking Medicare off the table. The – the White House says, don't do it? KEVIN HASSETT: No, we – no. But – but – but – but I've not – I've seen a massive amount of waste, fraud and abuse in Medicaid and I've not been briefed on Medicare waste, fraud and abuse. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. KEVIN HASSETT: The – but if they find something, then, of course, we would look at it. MARGARET BRENNAN: You would look at it. KEVIN HASSETT: Of course. MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Hawley was also brought up by Senator Klobuchar. And Missouri Senator has made it clear he wants to see changes to the increased co-payment requirements for Medicaid. That was in the House version that was sent over to the Senate. Are you comfortable with this House bill as it is written? What do you want to see done to Medicaid? KEVIN HASSETT: Right. Again, what we want to see done now is we want the Senate to pass the bill, and then we want the House and the Senate to work out their differences while negotiating with us. Right now, the Senate has to get the votes they need to pass the bill. And we're supporting them in that process. But you also need to be mindful when you're thinking about this that one of the things that we put out a report for the Council of Economic Advisers, that if the bill doesn't pass, then they estimate that this would cause a reduction of GDP by 4 percent. We'd be in a deep recession. We'd lose six or seven million jobs. And those people – almost all those people would lose their insurance. And so this idea that the only person who ever is going to get insurance is someone who's getting it from the government is just incorrect. And if we create the jobs that we have in the bill, then we're going to create a heck of a lot more insurance than what we're talking about in waste, fraud and abuse. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you're open to what Senator Hawley is looking to change, though? That – that's what I understand. KEVIN HASSETT: I – I'd have to go see what he has and I'd want to look at the fine details before I say I'm open to it. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. KEVIN HASSETT: And I also would want to talk to the president about this specific matter, which I've not done. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So, one of the other massive influences on the economy right now is the – the trade war, particularly with China. Tomorrow in London the Treasury secretary, the trade representative and the Commerce secretary are going to meet with Chinese officials. Treasury Secretary Bessent told us last Sunday that the recent tension was around exports of critical minerals. When will those exports resume, and what do you expect to come from tomorrow's meeting? KEVIN HASSETT: Right. Those exports of critical minerals have been getting released at a rate that is, you know, higher than it was, but not as high as we believe we agreed to in Geneva. And President Trump, being a dealmaker, talked with President Xi and he said, let's take, you know, our senior guys and the people who are the same level as you, let's have them meet somewhere and let's get these things cleared up and then we'll clear up what you don't like that we've agreed to release on our side, and we're going to shake hands about it. He literally said, I want to meet in London and I want to shake hands on it so we know we've got a deal. And then after that I think there was a very affable exchange about President Trump visiting China and President Xi coming here. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. KEVIN HASSETT: And so – and so I'm very comfortable that this deal is about to be closed. And it's going to be closed, not with a bunch of staffers and bureaucratic language, but with handshakes. So, that's the way President Trump operates. MARGARET BRENNAN: But – but – but same terms? Nothing new? KEVIN HASSETT: Well, I think that there – we can't talk about the terms that they're coming out with tomorrow because they're still working on it. But the point is we want the rare earth, the magnets that are crucial for cell phones and everything else to flow just as they did before the beginning of April. And we don't want any technical details slowing that down. And that's clear to them. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, our CBS News polling shows that most Americans don't like the tariffs and most Americans don't think the Trump administration has a plan. We're – we're also hearing from top economists, including the head of the Philadelphia Federal Reserve, who said the rules are really unclear and business leaders need certainty. When will they get that certainty from the administration? KEVIN HASSETT: Right. Well, you can be certain that there's going to be some tariffs. And the stuff that folks have been saying that's going to happen to tariffs is inconsistent with what you and I have talked about before, Margaret. So – so, what's going on, right, is that we've had a trade deficit with China forever and ever because they just want to sell stuff here so that they can create jobs in China and help, you know, control their government so that the people who are unemployed, then it's harder for a dictatorship to run. And so the point is just that – that if we put a tariff on them, then they're going to bear the tariff. So, what just happened? What just happened is that we had about $60 billion in tariff revenue in the U.S. MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. KEVIN HASSETT: And inflation – inflation – every measure of inflation is the lowest that it's been for more than four years. And so, all of our policies together are reducing inflation and helping reduce the deficit by getting revenue from other countries. And how much revenue, I think that you might have covered it, the Congressional Budget Office put out a ten-year estimate that says that the tariff revenue that's already in place right now is going to raise $2.8 trillion over the next ten years. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. KEVIN HASSETT: That's more than their own estimate, their own static estimate for the cost of this entire bill. MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure. KEVIN HASSETT: So, that – that's deficit reduction right there. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I'm glad you brought up that stat because it – it made me wonder, you just said that one certainty is there will be tariffs. KEVIN HASSETT: Sure. MARGARET BRENNAN: You are saying tariffs are staying put. That this is a constant source of – of – of – KEVIN HASSETT: We're – we're – we're negotiating reciprocal – you've seen deals. MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but – but – but I hear you on the – KEVIN HASSETT: You've seen deals. Yes, and exactly where they are, we're working it out and we're opening up markets so that U.S. – MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Yes, but deals – this is – this is where I'm stuck because deals is about negotiating down the tariffs so that's a diminishing source of revenue over time. But are you saying that there will be blanket tariffs of what percent? KEVIN HASSETT: Last year – last year, before we got here, we were raising $80 billion a year in tariffs. Right now the CBO projects that we're going to get $2.8 trillion over the next ten years. Exactly where the number ends up is going to depend on how much foreign countries open up their markets to our products and how much – how well they treat our farmers. And – and we'll see. But – but – but revenue – MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you don't know how much revenue you're going to have? KEVIN HASSETT: Revenue was $80 billion last year. Revenue – tariff revenue is not going away, that's what I'm saying. MARGARET BRENNAN: But we – but we don't know what the tariffs are going to be? So – KEVIN HASSETT: We're negotiating them on a country by country basis. MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly. KEVIN HASSETT: We've got a whole bunch of trade deals and we've got a trade deal with the U.K. that's already – you can see what the trade deal in the U.K. is now. MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. So, it's a fluctuating number. It's not – it's not a constant. But before I let you go, the Senate Finance chair, I know you were in this meeting at the White House this week. KEVIN HASSETT: Sure. MARGARET BRENNAN: He indicated quadrupling the state and local tax deduction, or SALT tax, is – is not something he's interested in doing. They don't have the politics in the Senate like they do in the House that would require it, right? So, is the White House committed to keeping this – – this quadrupling of the SALT tax deduction as it is? KEVIN HASSETT: The – the president has said that he supports changing the law, the state and local tax deduction. And this is a very – you know, it's a horse trading issue with the Senate and the House. And again, the president has listed his priorities on the tax bill and he – you know, it's no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. You know them all. And the Senate and the House, they're – they know that those priorities for the president are red lines. And then, on the other side, they're negotiating what they're going to negotiate because there's a differing level of support in the Senate than there was in the House. And in the end – MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. KEVIN HASSETT: The one thing we need and the president wants is a bill that passes, and passes on the Fourth of July. MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so, Senator Crapo needs to prepare himself that that is staying as the House wrote it? KEVIN HASSETT: He's got to work it out with the House. MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Kevin Hassett, thank you for your time this morning. KEVIN HASSETT: Thank you, guys. MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be back in a moment. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the international efforts to alleviate the extraordinary humanitarian crisis in Gaza. And we're joined by the CEO of Save the Children, Janti Soeripto. Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. JANTI SOERIPTO (CEO and President, Save the Children U.S.): Thank you, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, there are a million children in Gaza in desperate need. The U.N. says the 11-week Israeli blockade has caused the rate of young children suffering from acute malnutrition to triple. What are you able to get in to help? JANTI SOERIPTO: So, since March 2nd, Save the Children has been able to get nothing in whatsoever. MARGARET BRENNAN: Even though the blockade's over? JANTI SOERIPTO: Even though the blockade is formerly over, we haven't been able to get any of our – the 50 trucks that we have around Gaza, on the border, ready to go in, we haven't been able to get anything in. MARGARET BRENNAN: Why? JANTI SOERIPTO: So our staff are operating currently still with what we have. We have dwindling stocks, medical supplies, therapeutic malnutrition treatment for children, very young children. We're still working where we can and delivering goods while we can. But these talks are dwindling fast. MARGARET BRENNAN: What's the choke point? Why can't your trucks get in? JANTI SOERIPTO: We haven't gotten any authorization to get them in. MARGARET BRENNAN: From the Israeli authorities? JANTI SOERIPTO: Yes. MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the U.S. government helping at all? JANTI SOERIPTO: I think there is – there's an effort. I think there's a recognition that the humanitarian situation as it is is completely untenable, that we're looking at mass starvation of innocent civilians and above all very young children, as you said. So, there's attempts being made, we think, that those attempts currently are completely ineffective and – and inadequate. MARGARET BRENNAN: The director of al Shifa Hospital in Gaza told 'CBS THIS MORNING' that only a few hours remain before the generators in the hospital shut down because they don't have enough fuel to keep them going. JANTI SOERIPTO: Yes. MARGARET BRENNAN: What are your medical workers seeing on the ground? What happens if a hospital like that can't function? JANTI SOERIPTO: Yes, it's – I'm not surprised by that. It's completely abhorrent. We are hearing stories from colleagues in Gaza that are talking about children who have to undergo surgery and then they wake up during the surgery because there is not enough anesthetics. So, that is what's happening. That is what it looks like. MARGARET BRENNAN: That is horrific. JANTI SOERIPTO: It is. MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.N. office that oversees these efforts have warned as well that kids are – are leading households because their parents are gone. JANTI SOERIPTO: That's right. There's thousands and thousands of children who have lost one or more parents, lost their immediate family. So, yes, we'll have kids, young kids, taking care of their younger siblings, trying to survive. MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that do to a society? JANTI SOERIPTO: It – it – it's unbelievable what's happening to this generation of 2 million people in Gaza. You know, the trauma is hard to overestimate. We are hearing mothers tell us that now their children a essentially waiting their turn to die. MARGARET BRENNAN: How does your staff continue to function when they're told things like that? JANTI SOERIPTO: It's horrific, as you can imagine. So we have almost 200 staff there, almost all of them Palestinians, and can you imagine, they still go out every day – they have their own children to take care of. They can't feed their own kids adequately. They still go out every day trying to deliver, give medical assistance to – to kids and mothers where they can, hand out food when – whilst we still have it, trying to give people trauma counseling whilst we can – if we can reach them. But it is incredibly difficult. They're just trying to survive, almost, I think, pushing away, thinking about the trauma too much because otherwise it's very difficult, I think, to – to get up and – and go to work. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, your organization does help like this, emergency help like this around the world. The Trump administration has called on the U.N. to – to work with this new organization called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. It's got the Israeli government's support to deliver aid. We've seen a number of deadly shootings documented in proximity to their posts. A lot of criticism. They told the public yesterday that they'd received threats from Hamas, but then they didn't share details of that with CBS when we asked. Do you know what's happening? Because this is a U.S.-backed organization. JANTI SOERIPTO: It seems so. We have given a lot of input and – and – and shared our concerns. We and – and all the other operational agencies – operational in Gaza, shared our concerns with this new mechanism. We thought the existing mechanism worked just fine when we had the pause in fighting from January until March. If you recall, we got trucks and trucks of supplies in at scale. We were able to deliver. We treated children with malnutrition. We did vaccinations. We did medical care, et cetera. The hospitals were operating. There was fuel to operate the generator in al Shifa Hospital, and that worked. So, this current new mechanism doesn't seem to work. It – it – the failings seem to play out exactly in the way that we warned against. It is also a militarization of aid if you put men with guns near to a distribution point and then you ask a – a desperate, desperate, starving population to come and walk for miles to get boxes of food, you're going to create crowd control issues and – and increase risk of harm to an already incredibly desperate population. MARGARET BRENNAN: And boxes of food are not what you can give to a child who's in the midst of starvation. JANTI SOERIPTO: Exactly right. It's completely inadequate support as well. JANTI SOERIPTO: Thank you for having me. MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back. (ANNOUNCEMENTS) MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan. (ANNOUNCEMENTS)
