Why can't Israel's allies stop Netanyahu?

Australia Broadcast Center

26-05-2025

Sam Hawley: The international condemnation has been strengthening. The UK, France and Canada are demanding Israel stop, bring about a ceasefire and lift all remaining restrictions on foreign aid getting into Gaza, or face concrete actions. But the Israeli leader is pushing ahead. Today, we speak to a surgeon in Gaza about the conditions on the ground, and a peace and conflict expert about what the world can do now. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily.
Dr Victoria Rose: I'm Victoria Rose. I'm a consultant plastic surgeon. I work in the UK for the NHS. I'm out in Gaza in Khan Younis. We've come this time to Nasser Hospital, which is in the south, so in Khan Younis. And we are three plastic surgeons, an orthopaedic surgeon and an anaesthetist. And we're basically trying to help out with the mass casualties that are coming in through the doors.
Sam Hawley: And Nasser Hospital is one of the largest hospitals in Gaza. Yeah. So just give me a sense of what you have been dealing with there.
Dr Victoria Rose: Yeah, Nasser is really taking everything from the south now. I mean, what we're seeing is all explosion and bombing injuries. So lots of burns, lots of flash burns from the explosions. We're seeing a lot of children, a lot of children burns. I've got this morning, I've got a three year old with a 45% burn on the table first. But mainly damage from the explosion itself. So obviously when a bomb goes off, if it doesn't blow bits of your body off, you often get hit by whatever's whipped up in the blast. So any masonry near you or bits of car or whatever is whipped up and ejected at very high speed. And that hits the civilian sort of like a missile. And it's causing penetrating injuries of the head, chest, abdomen and the limbs. Now, if you get hit in the head, chest, abdomen, you likely don't survive. But if you get hit in the limbs, that's normally a survivable injury. And that's what we're getting here. So it's lots of people with traumatic amputations of hands, feet, arms, legs, but then also bones broken and lots of skin missing. And we're trying to sort of get them clean because they're often very dirty wounds and then get them closed.
Sam Hawley: Gosh, and is there a lot of the patients that you are treating children?
Dr Victoria Rose: Yeah, 50% of what we're seeing is children. And we're seeing a really high number of children between the ages of three and sort of about 10. And MSF sort of think that that is mainly because everyone under three, the parents kind of pick them up and run with them. And anyone over sort of 10 is a bit more worldly wise and is understanding what's going on and when to run. But there's a tranche in the middle that just a bit disorientated. And we're definitely seeing a lot of six and seven year olds with really devastating injuries.
Sam Hawley: And what about the supplies, the medicine?
Dr Victoria Rose: We haven't had any medical aid. I mean, they haven't had any food, but we haven't had any medical aid since the 2nd of March either. So we're really running low on all sorts of things. We've got a bit of a problem at Nasser at the moment with scalpel blades. So we're very low and it's making work really hard. But we're running out of all sorts of things. And if we don't get any aid in soon, I'm not sure how long we will be able to go. We're sort of bartering with the other big NGOs. Some have a few bits of surplus of certain things and others have surplus of some stuff. So we're sort of swapping what we can. I mean, it is really dire.
Sam Hawley: And you mentioned food. Of course, one of the biggest concerns at the moment is access to food and water. What are you finding while you're treating patients in terms of nourishment? I mean,
Dr Victoria Rose: the population are in the worst situation I've ever seen in terms of malnutrition. All of the children are underweight and undersized for their age compared to their Western counterparts. But I mean, we really are seeing the beginnings of the images that we saw in the 80s coming out of Ethiopia. But the main issue from the malnutrition is they're just not healing. Without the essential vitamins and minerals, these children don't have the capability of cell turnover or any healing capacity. And because of where they're living in tents, Israel stopped the vaccine program. Infection is absolutely rife at the moment.
Sam Hawley: Gosh, all right. Well, you're speaking, of course, like a doctor, as you should. But this must be so incredibly taxing on everybody involved, including yourself.
Dr Victoria Rose: Yeah, I mean, it is really difficult. We're sort of preoccupied with what we're doing. And I'm trying very hard not to think about the global situation too much because you just get so angry and then despondent. But we're about four streets away from the active fighting zone at the moment. And it's really worrying for us at NASA because if we have to evacuate, we have nowhere to go. And if we evacuate, it would be the death of everybody that we have on ICU and pediatric ICU because nobody could take them.
Sam Hawley: Not to mention your own safety. So look, with more than 60,000 people reported dead by authorities in Gaza since the start of this war, thousands of children are going hungry, of course, and you're treating many of them for terrible injuries. Look, it is just so hard to imagine this unless you see it firsthand. So what would be your message to people listening to this? Well,
Dr Victoria Rose: I think it's really hard to see it because they haven't let any media in and everything that comes out is often disputed. And it's very patchy reporting. But this is a humanitarian crisis. What is going on here has got to stop. We're about to see the loss of an entire population if this doesn't stop. And this is not a way to sort out the politics of a piece of land. We have to stop this mass destruction of the Palestinians. They're being starved. They're being bombed. They're being displaced. It's got to stop. There's got to be another way to sort this out.
Dr Eyal Mayroz: My name is Dr. Eyal Mayroz. I'm a senior lecturer in Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Sydney.
Sam Hawley: Eyal, let's start by discussing a shift that occurred last week. Quite striking scenes we saw in the UK Parliament where the Prime Minister Keir Starmer and his Foreign Secretary David Lammy expressed outrage at what was happening in Gaza.
Keir Starmer, UK Prime Minister: And I want to put on record today that we're horrified by the escalation from Israel.
David Lammy, UK Foreign Secretary: Netanyahu's government is planning to drive Gazans from their homes into a corner of the Strip to the south and permit them a fraction of the aid that they need. We must call this what it is. It is extremism. It is dangerous. It is respellant. It is monstrous. And I condemn it in the strongest possible terms.
Sam Hawley: France and Canada also joined in condemning what was going on and threatened concrete action. So just tell me about that and about what those three countries have done.
Dr Eyal Mayroz: Well, I think it was long overdue. The situation in Gaza is becoming more dire in terms of the mass starvation that is setting in. And so at some point, you know, Israel's allies, including, as you say, France, the UK and Canada, could no longer sustain the domestic public pressure, international public pressure on them in terms of the media coverage also of what is taking place, the atrocities in Gaza, and had to take action. And so they chose something which is certainly a strong escalation to what they've done in the past. But also, I'm a bit concerned about the long term ability of the international community to continue this pressure.
Sam Hawley: Of course, our Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, she was also demanding that Israel allow more aid into Gaza, although Australia didn't go as far as the UK did it in what it was saying.
Dr Eyal Mayroz: Yes, Australia joined, I think, 23 other Western countries in condemning what is taking place, which is obviously not much of a difference to what has been done in the past and is really toothless. There is no real significance to these condemnations because Israel has been flouting the international pressure, including legal and political. I think much will depend on the Americans and to what extent is Australia avoiding joining its traditional allies as in the UK and Canada because the US has not done so is unclear. But I'm kind of suspicious that this may have had something to do with Australia not going all the way.
Sam Hawley: Well, for his part, the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, he has said that Israel's actions are completely unacceptable.
Anthony Albanese, Prime Minister: It is outrageous that there'd be a blockade of food and supplies to people who are in need in Gaza. People are starving. And the idea that a democratic state withholds supply is an outrage.
Sam Hawley: All right, well, the international pressure was, of course, mounting. But then in Washington, we saw two Israeli embassy employees gunned down as they were leaving an event at the Capitol Jewish Museum by a man who was shouting, free, free Palestine. Horrible situation.
News report: Police say the man was observed pacing back and forth outside this museum. Four people exited and that's when the shooting occurred and two people, a young man and a woman, were killed.
Sam Hawley: Well after the shooting in Washington, the Israeli leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused world leaders who criticised his government of fuelling anti-Semitism.
Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli Prime Minister: I say to President Macron, Prime Minister Carney and Prime Minister Starmer, when mass murderers, rapists, baby killers and kidnappers thank you, you're on the wrong side of justice. You're on the wrong side of humanity and you're on the wrong side of history. What do you make of that?
Dr Eyal Mayroz: I think they have always been using the same card. Whenever there is something that escalates violence, that escalates against Jews or Israelis, then they use that and they would and they should, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the mass violence in Gaza continues and so this is, I think, the crux of the matter and the sympathy that Israel may gain whenever it uses either anti-Semitic or anti-Israeli violence is very short-lived because as long as the violence in Gaza continues, that will not change.
Sam Hawley: Well, Israel says it's fighting enemies in Gaza who want to destroy Israel. It says it won't be heeding the demands from foreign leaders. Its foreign minister says Israel is a proud nation fighting for its existence and, you know, Hamas needs to lay down its arms and this could be over.
Dr Eyal Mayroz: Well, it is true that Israel is fighting enemies that are set to destroy Israel, but this is not the vast majority of the Palestinian population in Gaza. It is, you know, the Hamas. So the idea that you can kill countless innocents in order to get to the Hamas is against international law and it's against human decency.
Sam Hawley: All right, so a new offensive we know has begun. How committed to this course of action is Israel and its leader, Benjamin Netanyahu? Is there anyone within his government, for instance, that would push back against this?
Dr Eyal Mayroz: No, I think the key is in Americans' hands. I think Israel is committed to try to, you know, destroy Hamas. The right-wing radical government has no qualms about it and the Israeli opposition, while, you know, the majority of the people in Israel are against it, the rally around the flag is preventing, I think, a stronger backlash against the government and they're quite safe in that sense from any kind of, at least internal, situation that would prevent them from continuing this offensive.
Sam Hawley: From what you're saying, really, Donald Trump has to step in at this point to at least bring about some sort of ceasefire.
Dr Eyal Mayroz: I think so. I think the Americans hold the key, but I think there's also ways of trying to change the cost-benefit calculations of the Americans and, you know, a very strong, wide, broad international pressure on the US, if joined by enough countries, may also change that cost-benefit analysis because Donald Trump does want to be seen as a good doer. This is where Australia, in collaboration with many other countries, can maybe make a difference.
Sam Hawley: Eyal Mayroz is a senior lecturer in peace and conflict studies at the University of Sydney. Victoria Rose is a British plastic surgeon currently working at the Nasser hospital in Gaza. This episode was produced by Sydney Pead. Audio production by Adair Sheppard and Sam Dunn. Our supervising producer is David Coady. I'm Sam Hawley. Thanks for listening.