logo
Are we allowed an 8ft fence for privacy? Our neighbour says we've broken planning rules

Are we allowed an 8ft fence for privacy? Our neighbour says we've broken planning rules

Daily Mail​2 days ago

Last month, my wife and I decided to replace the fences on either side of our garden. We've wanted to do it for ages to make the garden more private.
Given the original fences were only 4ft, we always felt very overlooked when either of our neighbours were in their garden. Plus the children of one family are always bouncing on a trampoline, which feels even more intrusive.
We asked both our neighbours if they were interested in contributing towards a bigger fence but both said they were not bothered. We mentioned that we might go ahead with it anyway and they seemed relaxed about it.
We decided to buy 8ft fence panels that we found advertised online to give us maximum privacy and had our local handyman install them, which saved money.
Now one of our neighbours is complaining that not only have we removed their fence, which we apparently had no right to do, but that our new fence is so high we should have got planning permission.
They said that if we don't reinstall the old fence they are going to report us to the council.
What should we do? And is there any legal protection under our right to privacy? Also, is there a way to find out if the fence boundary belongs to us and would that give us any protection?
Let's double it: Our reader felt a four foot fence was an insufficient privacy screen, so they replaced it with an eight foot fence without getting planning permission
Ed Magnus, of This is Money, replies: When it comes to neighbours winding each other up, garden fences are a common cause.
In the past, we have had questions about a neighbour stealing someone's garden and a dog jumping up at a fence so relentlessly that it was in danger of knocking it down.
The height of a fence may seem an issue that wouldn't cause dispute, but I fear you may have acted a little too hastily in opting for these eight foot fence panels.
A quick search online would have revealed that anything above two metres (6.5 feet) typically requires planning permission, so your neighbour is probably right.
Trying to find a fair and reasonable solution with your neighbour should always be the first course of action.
But not everyone likes being fair and reasonable – particularly when it is a matter concerning their home.
For expert advice we spoke to Olivia Egdell-Page, a partner and head of the property department at Joseph A Jones & Co solicitors, Mike Hansom, a consultant for property litigation at BLB Solicitors, and Chun Wong, head of dispute resolution at Hodge Jones & Allen.
Will you need to replace the fence?
Olivia Egdell-Page replies: It is clear that you did attempt to seek agreement here, however, it may be that the neighbours' objections are now based on the height of the new boundary fence, rather than the act of replacement.
In terms of the boundary structures, planning permission is not required if you erect a new fence or replace an existing fence where the height does not exceed two metres.
If you are replacing a fence which exceeds two metres in height, you can replace this on a like for like basis, provided the height would not be increase.
On that basis, it does seem that planning permission should be obtained, as the height of the fence has been increased from four to eight feet.
Alternatively, you may consider reducing the height of the fence to the maximum height of two metres, however consideration must be given to the planning regime in the area and if there are any additional controls imposed on the property, for example if the property is listed or located within a conservation area.
Mike Hansom adds: The general rule - unless you live in a conservation area or a listed building - is that a fence can be a maximum height of one metre if it faces a road or two metres otherwise.
Therefore, an eight foot (2.44 metre) fence requires planning permission.
To comply with the law you should probably install panels no taller than two metres. If you did not do this, the local authority - but probably not your neighbour - has the power to enforce planning law.
What if the neighbour proves it was their fence?
Mike Hansom replies: If your neighbours can prove that the original fence belonged to them, then whether you need to restore it to its original condition depends on precisely what was agreed.
If your neighbours expressly consented to your removal of the fence on the condition that you would cover the cost of its replacement, they cannot renege on that agreement, although they can still take issue with its height via the council.
If they were merely silent, you may need to replace the fence, as silence cannot, in law, be construed as consent.
In that case you could erect a new six foot fence on your side of the existing fence. If you explain this to your neighbour, they may have a change of heart, as their view over your garden would be reduced in any event.
Do they have any rights of privacy?
Chun Wong replies: There is no absolute law which provides for a right to privacy in a garden especially against private individuals.
However, if something your neighbours are doing causing a nuisance this could give rise to a claim for statutory nuisance.
A starting point to remember though is that a fence is not necessary indicative or definitive of actual legal boundaries between properties.
A fence is just a physical boundary on the ground. A legal boundary is an imaginary or invisible line which divides one's land from another's.
What's the best thing to do about a fence dispute?
Chun Wong replies: Where possible it is always best to try and resolve any issues you have with your neighbour amicably.
You have to see them day in and day out so it is best to keep relations civil. In addition, if a dispute is escalated you may have to disclose this to any potential buyer if you are considering a sale in the near future.
You could also consider a more structured and formal alternative dispute resolution such as mediation.
The Property Litigation Association and Rics have launched a new mediation service to help neighbours resolve disputes over their property boundaries without resorting to court action - the Boundary Disputes Mediation Service
In the event that you really cannot resolve the matter, then proper legal advice should be sought at an early stage before you embark on any self-help which could make matters worse or prejudice your position.
You should check whether you have the benefit of Legal Expense Insurance as part of your home, contents, or motor insurance which may provide some indemnity for legal costs in these types of cases.
You could consider a hedge...
Mike Hansom replies: It is common for deeds to be unclear about who owns the fence.
If it cannot be demonstrated one way or the other, the legal position is the new fence panels belong to you.
You are entitled to inform the neighbour they are not to remove or damage your panels, as to do so could amount to criminal damage.
Although not an instant solution, another option is to plant a hedge next to the fence, if space permits.
Again you must check for the existence of planning conditions or restrictive covenants in your deeds, but in general there is no planning restriction on the maximum height of a hedge.
The exception is the Antisocial Behaviour Act 2003, sometimes known as the 'High Hedges Act' which legislates against hedges comprising two or more evergreen or semi-evergreen trees or shrubs over 2 metres in height.
A hedge of native deciduous planting would not fall foul of the legislation, can grow quickly and would soon provide added privacy, as well as a habitat for wildlife.
What punishment could they face if they refuse to lower the fence?
Mike Hansom adds: The amount of the fine depends what part of the enforcement process has been breached, and how severe is the breach.
However many breaches, including non-compliance with a planning enforcement notice, give rise to criminal liability and an unlimited fine.
Best mortgage rates and how to find them
Mortgage rates have risen substantially over recent years, meaning that those remortgaging or buying a home face higher costs.
That makes it even more important to search out the best possible rate for you and get good mortgage advice, whether you are a first-time buyer, home owner or buy-to-let landlord.
Quick mortgage finder links with This is Money's partner L&C
> Mortgage rates calculator
> Find the right mortgage for you
To help our readers find the best mortgage, This is Money has partnered with the UK's leading fee-free broker L&C.
This is Money and L&C's mortgage calculator can let you compare deals to see which ones suit your home's value and level of deposit.
You can compare fixed rate lengths, from two-year fixes, to five-year fixes and ten-year fixes.
If you're ready to find your next mortgage, why not use This is Money and L&C's online Mortgage Finder. It will search 1,000's of deals from more than 90 different lenders to discover the best deal for you.

Orange background

Try Our AI Features

Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:

Comments

No comments yet...

Related Articles

Did Welsh Rarebit start out as a joke by the English?
Did Welsh Rarebit start out as a joke by the English?

BBC News

timean hour ago

  • BBC News

Did Welsh Rarebit start out as a joke by the English?

It's a beloved national dish of Wales and is found on restaurant menus across the country, but did Welsh rarebit actually start life as a joke played by the English?Toasted bread smothered in a rich, cheesy sauce - what's not to love? But the origin stories of this nostalgic comfort food are as varied as the recipes you can use to make credit poor farmers using a clever substitute for meat while others think English pubs coined the name as a joke, mocking the Welsh for not affording real which of these cheesy tales cuts the mustard? Welsh food historian and author Carwyn Graves said rarebit was "clearly associated with cultural and ethnic Welshness", with cheese being a vital part of European diets for a long time, especially in regions like Wales, where the dairy industry the Middle Ages, before refrigeration, cheese and butter were essential for preserving milk from the spring and summer for use during the colder was also a vital source of protein for poorer communities, particularly in areas like Wales and the Alps, where meat was scarce. In Wales, melted or roasted cheese became popular across all social classes, eventually evolving into Welsh 1536 Act of Union, incorporating Wales into England, saw Welsh migrants bringing melted cheese dishes to English Graves said the English saw it as an ethnic curiosity, even joking about 16th Century tale sees Saint Peter trick Welshmen with the call caws bobi - Welsh for roasted cheese - which he said reflected the dish's cultural ties to name Welsh rarebit appeared much later, with early English cookbooks, such as Hannah Glasse's in 1747, using terms including Welsh rabbit and Scotch rabbit for similar cheese on toast Mr Graves said there was no historical evidence linking the name to actual rabbits and he said the theory that poor people couldn't afford rabbit meat and used cheese instead was unproven. Kacie, from The Rare Welsh Bit food blog said Welsh rarebit, also known as Welsh rabbit, originated in the 1500s as a popular dish among Welsh working-class families who couldn't afford meat like rabbit, using cheese on toast as a substitute. According to her, the dish was first recorded in 1725 and over time, the name shifted from Welsh rabbit to Welsh rarebit, possibly to move away "from patronising connotations associated with the nature of the dish as a poor man's supper". Katrina from Real Girls Travel explained "nobody's quite sure how the name came about", but it's generally believed "Welsh rarebit" likely began as a joke about the poor people of south Wales, who were thought to live on rabbit and ale. She added that many mistakenly think Welsh rarebit contains rabbit because the dish was originally called "Welsh rabbit" in 1725. According to Katrina, the name probably changed because, in the late 17th and early 18th centuries, the English often gave humorous or fanciful names to regional foods, making the change "an attempt to make it a more fitting dish"."I personally think it was a language barrier or a strong Welsh accent that gave the dish its name," she added. In Sarah Fritsche's blog the Cheese Professor, she explained the word "Welsh" was used as an insult in 1700s Britain, similar to how "welch" functioned as a pejorative. According to Ms Fritsche, "rabbit" was used humorously because only the wealthy could afford real rabbit, making the cheesy toast a "poor person's substitute".She added "rarebit" was a corruption of "rabbit" and is unique to this dish, first appearing as "rare bit". Rose Geraedts, originally from the Netherlands, has lived in Brecon, Powys, for 20 years and runs the International Welsh Rarebit opened the business eight years ago after noticing cafes and pubs in the area were not serving it, despite high demand from tourists. "I thought it was crazy that a national dish wasn't on the menu. I think many saw it as old-fashioned," she took over a disused Victorian school building, renovated it and made Welsh rarebit the star of the show."It seemed mad not to do it - but a lot of people think I'm nuts," she cafe now offers six varieties and Ms Geraedts said customers loved the dish's rich, comforting flavour, seasoned with cayenne pepper, nutmeg, paprika and Worcestershire sauce. Ms Geraedts said she had welcomed visitors from around the world, from Australia to America, and even served celebrities including Jonathan Ross and rugby legend Gareth added: "People love it because it's nostalgic. They remember their mother or grandmother making it."It's much more than just dry cheese on toast."Ms Geraedts believes rarebit became popular due to Wales' connection to cheese-making, despite its name being a sarcastic "patronising" English joke. University lecturer, dietician, cook and food writer Beca Lyne-Pirkis said she first learned to make Welsh rarebit with her grandparents so it brings back "nostalgic memories".The 43-year-old, from Cardiff, said it was a great first dish to learn as it's "more complicated than cheese on toast" but not too Lyne-Pirkis said she has two versions - a rich, roux-based recipe with cheddar, beer, mustard and Worcestershire sauce and a quicker one mixing egg, cheese, and seasoning to spread on toast. The dish stayed with her through her university years and is now a favourite with her children."I fell in love with the flavour," she said."When I eat it I get the nostalgic childhood feeling as I have so many fond memories of eating it. That's where my love of food came from."Whatever the roots, Ms Lyne-Pirkis said rarebit was now a timeless, adaptable national dish rooted in family stories and experimentation."Every recipe has its own story, which helps keep the recipe alive."

DOWNLOAD THE APP

Get Started Now: Download the App

Ready to dive into the world of global news and events? Download our app today from your preferred app store and start exploring.
app-storeplay-store