Sussan Ley elected Liberals' leader

Australia Broadcast Center

13-05-2025

Samantha Donovan: Hello, welcome to PM. I'm Samantha Donovan, coming to you from the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation in Melbourne. Tonight, the Federal Liberal Party elects Sussan Ley as leader, the first woman to hold the role. Also, the UN's aviation watchdog finds Russia was responsible for the shooting down of Flight MH17. And it's the Welsh football team with a big dose of Hollywood. Wrexham AFC is coming to Australia.
Paula Smith: Oh, it's going to be brilliant. So I'm actually doing two trips. I'm coming over to Melbourne for the game. Everyone's really excited. There is a Melbourne and a Sydney, so people are kind of deciding which one they want to go and visit.
Samantha Donovan: We start this evening with the election of the first woman to lead the Liberal Party in federal parliament. Sussan Ley had a narrow win over rival Angus Taylor, 29 votes to 25. She's describing herself as a leader for the sensible centre and now has the huge job of rebuilding the Liberal opposition after its disastrous showing at the federal election. Nick Grimm prepared this report.
Sussan Ley: Feeling confident, looking forward to a Liberal Party party room meeting.
Nick Grimm: A former punk rocker, one-time public servant turned aerial stock-mustering pilot, Sussan Ley has seen plenty of Liberal party room gatherings in her 24 years in federal parliament, but this might have been the one where she had most at stake. She arrived alone, as did her leadership opponent, though in an ill portent of how things might unfold, a locked door blocking Angus Taylor's access to the party room meeting. He soon found an alternative route, but it wasn't long until the party determined its own future course.
Melissa Price: The Liberal Party has met and we have determined that the new leader of our Liberal Party is Sussan Ley, with 29 votes and Angus Taylor, 25.
Nick Grimm: With just a few votes between them, the result was hardly a ringing endorsement from Sussan Ley's party colleagues, still battered and bruised from their election loss. Angus Taylor later releasing a written statement congratulating his new party leader and urging Liberals to unify and earn back the trust of Australian voters, while Sussan Ley offered this olive branch in return.
Sussan Ley: Can I acknowledge Angus Taylor for putting his hand up to lead the Liberal Party. He would have been a fine leader of the Liberal Party at this time.
Nick Grimm: Sussan Ley also revealing she'd given a hug to another colleague with leadership ambitions, Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa-Price, who defected from the Nationals party room to stand as Angus Taylor's deputy. Ultimately though, she didn't put herself forward for that vote, which in the end saw Ted O'Brien emerge as the successful candidate. Meanwhile, the new Liberal leader says she plans to do things differently and bring a fresh approach to steering the party towards what she vows can be a competitive position at the election in three years' time.
Sussan Ley: We have to have a Liberal Party that respects modern Australia, that reflects modern Australia and that represents modern Australia. And we have to meet the people where they are. And that's what I am committed to doing and what I'm determined to do.
Nick Grimm: Asked whether the party will stick with its controversial plan for nuclear power or whether it will support net zero emissions reductions, she's promised to consult with her colleagues on energy policy, vowing there'll be no captain's picks under her leadership. And she dismisses suggestions she'll be a caretaker leader only for a party that needs to rebuild.
Sussan Ley: I've heard those remarks and I find them interesting and 100% I will be here in three years, but more than that, we will be in a competitive position.
Nick Grimm: And as the first woman chosen to lead her party through one of its most challenging periods in opposition wilderness, she had this when asked if she'll be confronted by the so-called glass cliff phenomenon.
Sussan Ley: It's an interesting question, the glass cliff, and I actually don't accept it in my appointment. But I do say that it does send a signal to the women of Australia that the Liberal Party has elected its first woman leader.
Nick Grimm: One of the key challenges facing the Liberals will lie in winning back a host of metropolitan seats lost at the election. And with that comes an acknowledgement a period of introspection will be necessary. Queensland MP Andrew Wallace.
Andrew Wallace: The party room decided that Sussan was the best person to take us forward. You know, for those seats that, you know, like my own on the Sunshine Coast, that there was a very strong teal challenge. We need to understand better what was attracting people to vote for a teal.
Nick Grimm: And there's been this from Victorian Liberal Aaron Violi.
Aaron Violi: There are a lot of lessons from this result as a party we need to take and we have to do it as a collective. We have to work together to understand where we went wrong, why we were rejected by the Australian people. Be humble, listen, learn and move forward as a collective. It's the only way we can survive.
Samantha Donovan: Victorian Liberal MP Aaron Violi. Nick Grimm with that report. Julia Banks is a former federal Liberal MP who quit the party in 2018 after Malcolm Turnbull was ousted as Prime Minister in a leadership coup. She's been an outspoken critic of the party's treatment of women and told me she doesn't believe the elevation of Sussan Ley to the leadership will change things.
Julia Banks: If the Liberal Party think they're going to fix their issues with Australian women and Australian women voting for them, I think they're kidding themselves, you know, simply by the appointment of a female leader.
Samantha Donovan: Why do you think that won't fix things?
Julia Banks: Well, their problems are deeply endemic and structural in relation to women, both within the party and external to the party. The Liberal Party's problem with women, it's not a women problem, it's the Liberal Party's problem with women, goes back at least 10 years from when I was in that party room. And it stems from when I, at the time I left the party, which was shortly after the leadership coup, when Scott Morrison took over the leadership from Malcolm Turnbull. And since we've had the Morrison-Dutton show, so to speak, the party has increasingly gone to the right wing and their anti-women stance has just become more and more embedded. And Australian voters obviously saw that. I mean, I think if we look at the historical fact that, yes, Sussan Ley is the first Liberal Party leader, but the bigger historical fact is that the Labor Party have got 47 female MPs and the Liberal Party to the Liberal Party, I think it's about six at the moment.
Samantha Donovan: Do you think the Liberal Party needs to introduce quotas as Labor did many years ago?
Julia Banks: It's the only mechanism. But the Liberal Party generally, and it's a more embedded thought now, if they consider quotas to be an anathema to Liberal Party values, quotas are just, I just can't see them doing that. The average Liberal Party member is a 70 year old white male and the average Australian is a 37 year old female. They just can't ignore the statistics anymore.
Samantha Donovan: It was a close vote, 29 votes over 25. Do you think male Liberal MPs are going to get behind Sussan Ley and support her?
Julia Banks: It's only 10 years ago when the Liberal Party, that same Liberal Party room, had the opportunity to elect Julie Bishop as their leader. Most of the women in that party voted for Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton. So I just don't think that party room dynamic and that party room culture is genuinely is supportive of women.
Samantha Donovan: Is it possible, though, that the shocking result, the really bad result for the Liberal Party at this most recent election will send Liberal MPs a firm message that things have to change?
Julia Banks: Well, really, Sam, I think the shocking result also happened in 2022 when they lost those blue ribbon Liberal seats to women that people kept saying, you know, they're the sort of women that should join the Liberal Party. So I think our focus should rather be on how do we enhance the power of the community independence, particularly in those urban seats, those blue ribbon seats by creating a party, community independence party, if you like, particularly so that they can have representation in the Senate.
Samantha Donovan: There's been a tendency in Australian politics, particularly at the state level, for a woman to be installed as leader when a party's fortunes are on the slide and then a man comes in and replaces her. How big a risk do you think that is for Sussan Ley?
Julia Banks: I think it's an enormous risk, Sam. I think not just in political life, but we've seen that in corporate life in terms of the glass cliff. And I think this is possibly one of the most significant glass cliffs in Australian history that we will see.
Samantha Donovan: Julia Banks is a former federal Liberal MP. Fran Bailey is another former Liberal MP. She served as a minister in the Howard government. She believes Sussan Ley has the right qualities to lead the party.
Fran Bailey: I think that was a very good result. And obviously, I think Sussan has won, albeit a close win, because of her experience. She demonstrated compassion about issues and her financial qualifications. So I think it was a good decision.
Samantha Donovan: As you say, a very close vote, though, 29 votes to 25. Is she going to have the support of the party behind her?
Fran Bailey: Well, I certainly hope so, because if ever there was a need for the party to pull together, now is the time. And obviously, I'm sure that the number one priority is going to make sure that the policies of the party are well developed, that they're tested and explained throughout the community. Because the reason I think that the Liberal Party was put into the position of having to elect a leader of the opposition was because it ran a disastrous campaign and nobody really understood what it stood for. And the policies didn't reflect the very changing nature of the Australian community.
Samantha Donovan: As a long serving Liberal MP, how significant is it for you to have a woman in the role now?
Fran Bailey: I think it's very important because she has demonstrated obvious leadership qualities. I think that what the party room has decided is that they believe that she is the best person for that job and hopefully she will be.
Samantha Donovan: Fran Bailey is a former federal Liberal MP, a minister in the Howard government. This is PM. I'm Samantha Donovan. You can hear all our programs live or later on the ABC Listen app. Twenty four hours on from the breakthrough in trade negotiations between the US and China, the initial euphoric response from financial markets has waned. Both countries agreed to roll back tariffs on each other's goods for 90 days. While investors and economists welcomed that news, there's still a great deal of uncertainty about a final trade deal. Our business reporter, David Taylor, has more.
David Taylor: It's been described as a major breakthrough in the US-China trade war. John Kunkel is a senior economics advisor at the United States Study Centre.
John Kunkel: Clearly, both sides felt the need to de-escalate from where they got to.
David Taylor: And de-escalate they did. The US previously imposed a 145% duty on China, while Beijing struck back with a 125% tariff. The new deal brings total tariffs on Chinese goods entering the US down to 30%, which includes the 20% levy imposed as punishment for the illegal trade of fentanyl into the US and a so-called Liberation Day tariff of 10%. John Kunkel says the 90-day pause gives both sides some breathing space before they come back to the negotiating table.
John Kunkel: The most important comment, I think, was the US Treasury Secretary saying that the US has no intention of decoupling from China. There were, I think, elements in the US administration that were looking to do a hard decoupling from China. So that's good news for global growth for both of the economies. But I should say, frankly, setting 90-day tripwires on tariff policy is a hell of a way to run a railroad.
David Taylor: And he says there's still a lot of uncertainty around where both countries will ultimately land with trade negotiations. US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is leading US trade negotiations.
Scott Bessent: One of the most important things that we're doing, we do not want a generalised decoupling from China. But what we do want is a decoupling for strategic necessities, which we were unable to obtain during COVID. And we realised that efficient supply chains were not resilient supply chains.
David Taylor: In response, Chinese President Xi Jinping reiterated there are no winners in a trade or tariff war. Independent economist Saul Leslake.
Saul Eslake: So from an Australian perspective, this is good news, because the impact that you're likely to see on China's exports to the United States will be less than it otherwise was. Although, let's remember that there's still a 30% tariff on US imports from China. And that's considerably higher than the average of about 2 or 3% that had applied previously.
David Taylor: The 10-year US government bond market, which crashed in April, ultimately forcing US President Donald Trump to back down on most of his tariffs, fell again today. When bond prices fall, interest rates rise. And that makes US government borrowing more difficult. It's precisely what Donald Trump wants to avoid. Jamieson Coote Bonds co-founder Angus Coote.
Angus Coote: Time will tell about how much impact these tariffs do have on economies. And that's when you'll get more clear views on those 10-year treasuries. I mean, I think in the context of recent history, the move in 10 years and back end hasn't been as wild as what it has been in, say, 2022 and other parts.
David Taylor: Are you confident that we've seen the worst of the equity market sell off?
Angus Coote: That's a great question. I think it will be volatile for a period of time. I think that, you know, obviously it's a 90 day pause and there's still a lot of detail to be worked through. And we do know that Donald Trump does like to spring surprises.
David Taylor: The Reserve Bank of Australia meets next Tuesday to decide on the direction of interest rates here.
Samantha Donovan: David Taylor reporting. The United Nations top aviation body has ruled that Russia was responsible for the downing of Malaysian flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014. Two hundred and ninety eight people on board were killed, including 38 Australian citizens and residents. The case was brought by Australia and the Netherlands. And in the first ruling of its type, the International Civil Aviation Organization Council found Russia violated international aviation law that requires states not use weapons against civilian aircraft in flight. Twenty five year old Australian Jack O'Brien was among those who died when MH17 was shot down. His mother, Meryn O'Brien, says the ruling is an important step in the ongoing push to hold Russia accountable.
Meryn O'Brien: It's a long game that's already gone on for years. It's going to keep on going on. I don't know what the outcome in terms of Russia's response will be, but it's another finding that's out there to, I guess, tell the world Russia did this again.
Samantha Donovan: Dr. Carrie McaDougall is an associate professor at the University of Melbourne's law school. In her time as a legal adviser at Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, she played a significant role in advising the government on legal issues relating to the downing of MH17. The International Civil Aviation Organization Council will now decide what penalties Russia should face. And I asked Dr. McDougall if there's any chance Russia will comply with any further orders.
Carrie MacDougall: I mean, Russia has, of course, a long history of failing to cooperate in relation to the range of initiatives that have been pursued to try and secure justice for the downing of flight MH17. So it does seem highly unlikely, particularly given the very difficult relations between both Australia and the Netherlands on one hand and Russia on the other. But if it does refuse to engage in negotiations, I don't think that would prevent the council ordering Russia to pay reparations. Of course, it's a separate question about whether any payment would ever be forthcoming.
Samantha Donovan: What sort of reparations could be ordered, do you think?
Carrie MacDougall: As I mentioned, this is the first determination on the merits before the ICAO council. So we don't have a good benchmark by which we might measure this. Reparations would cover something like an apology or an undertaking not to repeat this violation, but it could also involve some sort of compensation.
Samantha Donovan: But are we right in thinking it's very unlikely that Russia would ever comply with those orders?
Carrie MacDougall: I think that's a fair assessment given Russia's overt violations of international law across the board at the moment.
Samantha Donovan: Does the International Civil Aviation Organization have any power to enforce any order of reparations?
Carrie MacDougall: It could issue an order that would be binding, but there'd be very limited measures at its disposal. It has already removed Russia from membership on the council. I'm not aware of other measures that it could take in that regard.
Samantha Donovan: As a lawyer who worked on the case, does it give you satisfaction that this order has been made?
Carrie MacDougall: I will be very frank and say, look, in my personal capacity, you know, it is important, obviously, that we take measures to ensure the safety of civil aviation. I also think it's important that the international community pay very close attention to Russia's meddling and force used against Ukraine, not just from February 2022, but going back to 2014. A small part of me, though, is very conscious that of the, I guess, overwhelming investment of political and financial resources in the pursuit of justice for this case, which stands in very stark contrast to the very modest efforts to pursue justice in relation to the conflict in Ukraine more broadly, not to mention the very many other breaches of international law taking place in other conflicts around the globe.
Samantha Donovan: Tell me more about what you mean by that.
Carrie MacDougall: My main area of expertise is as an international criminal lawyer. So I spend most of my time looking at the crime of aggression, crimes against humanity, war crimes, genocide. And we see in relation to the pursuit of justice for those crimes committed around the globe, a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of action. And I think in contrast, we've seen this just extraordinary effort by the Dutch and Australian governments in particular to pursue justice in relation to MH17. And I think what would be really great is if we saw the same commitment to justice in relation to any number of crimes currently being committed in Gaza. But of course, there's a large range of crimes that we can identify having been committed in Ukraine in the context of the full scale Russian invasion since 2022, as well as what we might describe as many of the forgotten conflicts in Yemen or Sudan, the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Samantha Donovan: Dr. Carrie MacDougall is an associate professor at the University of Melbourne's law school. Soccer fans are thrilled by the news that the Welsh soccer club Wrexham is heading to Australia and New Zealand to play local teams. Five years ago, the club was semi-professional and little known. But after being bought by a couple of Hollywood stars, it's now close to joining the English Premier League, the most watched football competition in the world. Myles Houlbrook-Walk prepared this report.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: Paula Smith was born in Wrexham in North East Wales and grew up cheering her local football club. AFC Wrexham has always been dear to her heart.
Paula Smith: I've gone from people going, where's Wrexham? To, oh my God, that football club. I've seen the series. So it's all a bit nuts, but I'm so proud of everybody. It's just brilliant.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: Currently living in Wellington, Paula Smith will now have the chance to watch her childhood team play in her new home after it announced a tour of Australia and New Zealand.
Paula Smith: My computer has been pinging all day with the details. It has been frenetic. To have them on kind of new home soil is absolutely epic. Everyone's brilliant.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: While Paula Smith is a Wrexham diehard, one could be forgiven for having never heard of the football team from a town of 50,000. But all that changed after it was purchased in 2020 by Hollywood megastars Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhinney. Samantha Lewis is a freelance football journalist.
Samantha Lewis: Wrexham AFC actually have an extremely long history. They're the third oldest professional football club in the world. But the reason why they're famous is because a couple of years ago, two very famous film stars, Ryan Reynolds and Rob Rob McElhinney, bought it. They were two mates who were keen to buy a football club somewhere in the world. And Wrexham was a club that had pretty much gone into disrepair. They'd fallen all the way down into the non-leagues.
Football Commentator: From non-league to the championship in no time at all for Wrexham. The only way is up these days.
Samantha Lewis: What they have done is pretty remarkable. They have managed to get Wrexham promoted three consecutive seasons, the first time that a club has ever done it, to the point where they are now in the second tier championship, one rung below the Premier League. That's a pretty amazing story and a remarkable turnaround. They're a global brand.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: The global brand has been to America and now is heading south. Today, Sydney FC, Melbourne Victory and the Wellington Phoenix confirmed they would all be hosting exhibition matches against Wrexham in July. Professor Tim Harcourt is an economist at the Centre for Sport from the University of Technology, Sydney, and says for Wrexham, the big attraction of Australia and New Zealand is economic.
Tim Harcourt: They've been able to do deals with airlines and whiskeys and coffees and other types of commercial arrangements. And a trip to Australia is really good for their sponsors.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: Are these games at risk of being viewed as just kind of shameless money grabs that aren't actually really about the spectacle of football, particularly given there's nothing on the line for either side playing?
Tim Harcourt: If you think about it, if you follow Aussie rules or rugby league or cricket, you can see the best in the world every week here. But if you follow soccer, the best in the world play in England and Europe and South America. So these tours are a chance for you to see the very best in the world. And I think that's why they're considered great for the fans, even if they do have commercial externalities and spin offs.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: For lifelong fans like Paula Smith, the motivations don't really matter. The chance to watch her team play up close in New Zealand is one she's stoked about.
Paula Smith: We're going to kick back, have a few beers, sing some songs before we head to the game. And then on that 19th, I'm going to have my family with me. So I'm going to have my boys and take them to the game as well. So that's going to be pretty cool.
Myles Houlbrook-Walk: Wrexham will play in Melbourne on the 11th of July, Sydney on the 15th and in Wellington on the 19th.
Samantha Donovan: Myles Houlbrook-Walk reporting. Thanks for joining me for PM. I'm Samantha Donovan. The podcast of the full program is available on the ABC Listen app. And that's where you'll find ABC News Daily with Sam Hawley each weekday morning, too. We'll be back at the same time tomorrow. Good night.