30-04-2025
Federal election 2025 live: China, the US and AUKUS: Expert forum tackles Australia's future
The final ABC Your Say panel of the election campaign is underway.
It will explore how Australia represents itself on the world stage, including how we navigate our friendship with an unstable United States.
Host Hamish Mcdonald is joined by former home affairs secretary Mike Pezzulo, former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, US Studies Centre director of economic security Hayley Channer, and Lavina Lee from Macquarie University.
Follow the day's events on our live blog below.
Or you can try out the ABC's
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1m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:58am
Can Australia bridge the gap between China and the US?
J
By Joshua Boscaini
Jonathan
from
Melbourne
has asked the panel whether Australia can bridge the gap between
China
and the
United States
.
Malcolm Turnbull
says he thinks Australia has played that role at times, and affirms that Australia is not disconnected or alienated from our region.
He says
Donald Trump
and Chinese President
Xi Jinping
both believe "might is right".
Dr
Lavina Lee
has been asked whether Australia should just sit back and watch the relationship between the two superpowers deteriorate.
She says Xi has clear intentions and objectives, and has territorial ambitions for the
South China Sea
and wants to break through what is called the "first island chain", which is a string of islands in the Pacific, and "dominate this region".
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3m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:56am
Calls to be 'clear-eyed' about China threat
H
By Holly Tregenza
Tim from Adelaide has called in and my goodness, does he have a question.
He asks the panel:
"Can you explain Australia's oscillation between opportunism and paranoia in regard to Asia generally, and China specifically?
He continues:
"Could our ignorance of the 5,000 years of Asian history... mean that we are incapable of crafting a truly informed, independent relationship with China?"
Dr Lavina Lee
takes a crack at answering.
"There's plenty of opportunism in our relationship. We get an enormous amount from China," she says.
"But we have to be really clear eyed on this. Peter Dutton said it explicitly in the debate, Albanese refused to say it - but China is a major security threat.
"It is the most disruptive and threatening country in our region."
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10m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:48am
Panel discusses differences of foreign policy between major parties
J
By Joshua Boscaini
Hayley Channer
says there are distinct differences between the two parties on
foreign policy
this election, including on
China
.
She says it's not unique for adversaries to have strong trading relationships. Channer points out that Australia was trading with Japan right up until the start of World War II.
Channer says the relationship with
China
needs to be carefully managed because trade with them is enormous.
"They're a friend and a foe, I would say, because the trade with them is enormous, like I can't explain how enormous it is. It's a third of our our two way trade, a quarter of our expert exports," she says.
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12m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:46am
Deb callls in with a question about her son in the navy
H
By Holly Tregenza
Deb from Canberra has called in and has a son who is a mechanical engineer in the Navy.
"He's currently in the US at the nuclear power training facility, learning the very skills that are meant to come back in a couple of years time and maintain these submarines over in Perth," she says.
"What will happen to the Australians who are currently over there if this deal doesn't go ahead?"
Malcolm Turnbull
tells Deb not to worry.
"The one part of the AUKUS deal which will definitely go ahead is Australia providing the United States navy with a nuclear submarine base in Perth, and maintenance facilities," he says.
"Those maintenance roles will be here, whether we get nuclear submarines or not."
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17m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:41am
Should we have more substantial defence relationships beyond the US?
J
By Joshua Boscaini
The next question is from
Ron
in
Victoria
.
He's asked whether Australia should have more substantial defence relationships with
Europe
,
New Zealand
,
Indonesia
and
Japan
instead.
Mike Pezzullo says Australia provides the US with "critical" coverage in the southern hemisphere.
"There are some critical functions we provide from our geography that literally keeps America safe. This is things like Pine Gap, for example," he says.
Dr
Lavina Lee
says Australia is fostering its relationships with other countries, including India.
He says Australia doesn't have the industrial capability in the military space to completely replace the alliance with the US.
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20m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:39am
Australia should leverage it's soft power with US, Channer says
J
By Joshua Boscaini
On the topic of dealing with
Donald Trump
,
Hayley Channer
says Australia has the skill set to extract what it wants from the United States.
She says Trump is a
transactional president
, and that Australia should use it's "soft power" — like sending celebrities to the US — to its advantage.
Malcolm Turnbull take a different view and says Australia should stand up to Trump.
"Informed by my own experience as a Australian prime minister dealing with him [Trump] is that the way to to succeed with the United States is to stand up for our position, and rather than going there with trinkets and gifts," he says.
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21m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:38am
'Get off your knees': Turnbull
H
By Holly Tregenza
The panel is shown a photo of US
President Donald Trump
and
Ukranian President
Volodymyr Zelenskyy
meeting inside the
Vatican
as they both attend the Pope's funeral over the weekend.
Macdonald
asks the panel what they think about either
Anthony Albanese
or
Peter Dutton
going to the White House after the election to front up to Trump.
'We've sent Greg Norman in the past," Macdonald quips, referencing a former professional golfer.
Malcolm Turnbull stops him there.
"Get off your knees, Hamish," he says.
"It makes me want to vomit."
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30m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:28am
Trump believes 'might is right', Turnbull says
J
By Joshua Boscaini
Malcolm Turnbull
says China is developing the capability to challenge Australia's independence and sovereignty
.
But Turnbull has turned the focus to US President
Donald Trump
and says his values are aligned with Vladimir Putin and believes "might is right".
"Donald Trump has threatened, used economic coercion against Canada, and repeatedly said he believes it should be the 51st state, right? He has said that he will get Greenland the territory of Denmark … Can you imagine what we would all be saying if Xi Jinping said Vietnam should be a province of China," he says.
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31m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:28am
Should Australia just build our own subs?
H
By Holly Tregenza
Alan in Adelaide has dialled. Here's his question:
Should we fast track the development and manufacture of or own drone submarines in Australia?
We're going to expert
Hayley Channer
from the
US Studies Centr
e first.
"The second pillar of AUKUS is advanced capabilities... which we will be sharing and co-developing with the US and the UK," she says.
"I think it's really important not to forget the middle part of AUKUS, which is the UK part."
But she says drone technology is simply not up to scratch at this point to compete.
"But also, very developed country in the Indo-Pacific is investing in submarines, and the best counter to a submarine... is a submarine."
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37m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:22am
Has there been some panic over AUKUS?
J
By Joshua Boscaini
Hamish Macdonald
has asked
Malcolm Turnbull
whether there's been some panic over
AUKUS
.
Turnbull says he's not saying Australia should pull out of AUKUS, but instead there's real prospect we won't get any Virginia class submarines.
"This possibility is being widely canvassed in Washington, and it is canvassed in congressional documents and reports, and what they suggest is, in those circumstances, maybe it'd be smarter for Australia to let the Americans do the submarine and instead spend money on other long range strike capabilities," he says.
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38m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:21am
Will Australia get what it pays for with AUKUS?
H
By Holly Tregenza
Host
Hamish Mcd
onald
throws the question back to
Former Home Affairs department secretary
Mike Pezzulo.
He asks about the US administration "making noise" about Australia increasing defence spending up to three per cent of GDP, and asks if Australia is at risk of not getting what we've paid for with AUKUS.
"I think there is a timing imperative to start putting in place some lateral, I don't mean substitute, but lateral policies in place which can go forward simultaneously," Mr Pezzulo says.
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Key Event
43m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:16am
Should Australia reconsider the AUKUS partnership?
J
By Joshua Boscaini
The first question is from
Susan
in
Melbourne
.
She asks if with all the mixed messaging on AUKUS and defence policy whether it would be prudent for Australia to revisit the French naval group submarines option.
Mike Pezzullo
says he diagrees and thinks we should stay the course.
"We have to be realistic about the chances of getting a Virginia class submarine off the American production line. So we need to deal with that. We need to be very hard nosed with our British partners about the design of the AUKUS submarine as well," he says.
Hayley Channer
says AUKUS should be seen through the lens of a
nation building project
rather than a defence project.
She says she thinks it needs more time to see how it can actually be success.
Malcolm Turnbull
has chimed into the discussion. He says he didn't drink the "kool aid" on AUKUS and says we should be asking difficult questions about the project.
"I think it's important that Australians do ask difficult questions, and that is to say to both the government and the opposition, who wants to be the government, what is your plan if ... we end up with no submarines at all...?" he says
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53m ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 5:05am
ABC Your Say panel answers your questions on national security
J
By Joshua Boscaini
For weeks we've been asking what you're concerned about this election, and Australia's place in an uncertain world was one of your top responses.
The ABC's
Hamish Mcd
onald
is putting your questions on everything from
AUKUS
to our relationship with
China
to our panel of experts.
Follow us live.
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Key Event
1h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 4:53am
Join us for the final ABC Your Say panel
J
By Joshua Boscaini
We're standing by for the final
ABC Your Say
panel of the election campaign which is due to start at
3pm (AEST
).
It will explore how Australia represents itself on the world stage, including how we navigate our friendship with an unstable United States.
Host
Hamish Mcdonald
will be joined by
former home affairs secretary
Mike Pezzulo
, former prime minister
Malcolm Turnbull
, US Studies Centre director of economic security
Hayley Channer,
and
Dr
Lavina Lee
from Macquarie University.
You can follow what the panelists say here on our live blog or in the YouTube link at the top of the page.
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1h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 4:25am
🎥 ICYMI: Chalmers on core inflation falling
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By Georgie Hewson
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Key Event
1h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 4:12am
Courting the Chinese-Australian vote over some Yum Cha
P
By Pablo Vinales, on the trail with Dutton
(ABC News: Matt Roberts )
A significant factor in the Morrison government's 2022 election loss was the backlash from
Chinese-Australians
, arising from its hawkish stance on China.
Dutton is trying to repair the damage that caused with a large cohort of voters, especially in parts of
Melbourne
and
Sydney
.
Today he made a lunch stop at a Yum Cha restaurant in the seat of
Chisholm
held by
Labor
on a margin of
3.3 per cent
.
Former MP
Katie Allen
is contesting the seat against
Carina Garland
.
Dutton has faced questions over his previous comments like
Over the past couple of years Dutton has softened is language on China, though at the last leaders' debate he named the
Chinese Communist Party
as the biggest threat to Australia's national
security.
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1h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 4:00am
That's a wrap
H
By Holly Tregenza
Anthony Albanese
has exited the stage, his
National Press Club
address complete.
Here's what was covered:
The
PM
used his speech to talk about
Medicare
and take aim at
Peter Dutton
for not attending the
National Press Club
in the final week of the campaign.
He says he's confident in the bulk billing incentives modelling from
Labor.
He's also stuck to his guns on Labor's critical minerals reserve plan, saying it is in Australia's best interests.
He responded to
Penny Wong's
suggestions The Voice, although voted down by the majority of Australians, may not be gone forever.
The
PM
wouldn't say if he has any regrets he has about his first term in office.
He rule out putting
AUKUS
up for discussion in the case of a hung parliament.
He's also asked about a bizarre endorsement from Joe Exotic - from Tiger King fame. Albanese says he only has the support of one animal, and it's his dog, Toto.
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2h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 3:55am
More on the Tiger King's endorsement of the PM
O
By Olivia Caisley
If you're wondering why the prime minister was asked about a convicted American murderer at the press club, let's get you up to speed.
Remember the collective fever dream that was the early pandemic — and the chaotic
Netflix series Tiger King?
Back in March 2020, as the world ground to a halt, millions of us were glued to the saga of
Joe Exotic
— the flamboyant former zookeeper turned convicted felon whose wild world of big cats, rivalries, and criminal plots became a lockdown obsession.
Well, in the update no one saw coming, Joe Exotic has clawed his way back into the headlines.
Speaking to 2DayFM from his prison cell, the self-declared "Tiger King" gave a wide-ranging interview that somehow veered into #auspol.
And yes — he gave a full-throated endorsement of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.
"Re-elect him," Joe said.
In an accompanying Instagram post, which appears to show an AI-generated image of Mr Exotic posing with the PM, he writes: "Keep Australia safe and awesome. All of my friends in Australia vote for @albomp."
A spokesperson for Labor's campaign told ABC News:
"The Labor Party had no role in an endorsement from Joe Exotic, nor has anyone from the Labor campaign ever had any contact with him."
An endorsement from the Tiger King in prison wasn't on our bingo card — but at this point in the campaign, what even is?
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Key Event
2h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 3:52am
AUKUS, foreign policy not up for discussion in potential hung parliament, PM says
J
By Joshua Boscaini
Peter Hobson
from
Reuters
has asked the final question of today's
National Press Club
.
He's asked the PM whether
AUKUS
and
foreign policy
would be up for discussion with
minor parties
and
independents
in order to achieve minority government.
Anthony Albanese's
answer is "no". He doesn't elaborate further.
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Key Event
2h ago
Wed 30 Apr 2025 at 3:49am
In the event of a hung parliament, will Labor negotiate deals?
H
By Holly Tregenza
After that brief Tiger King interlude, we're back to the serious stuff.
Dan Jervis-Bardy
from the
Guardian
asks about
Albanese's
refusal to answer questions about the possibility of forming a minority government, particularly with the prospect of further global insecurity.
"In the event of a hung parliament, would it not be preferable to negotiate deals rather than negotiate in a legislation by legislation basis?" he asks.
"No," the PM says.
"You don't want to elaborate on that?" says Jervis-Bardy.
"We've got 78 seats," the PM says.
"We're aiming to hold every single one of them and we're out there campaigning hard in Coalition-held seats and in Greens part-held seats as well.
"It's as simple as that."
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