Latest news with #Akhenaten
Egypt Independent
20-05-2025
- General
- Egypt Independent
Is Queen Nefertiti's mummy about to be revealed?
International newspapers several years ago reported the discovery of Queen Nefertiti's mummy, citing an English researcher more interested in fame than science. Naturally, I opposed the publication of such sensational, unverified news. At the time, I challenged every piece of alleged evidence the English researcher presented. During our debates, I lacked scientific data on the purported Nefertiti mummy. However, after the English researcher examined this mummy using x-rays, I wasn't able to refute its results. The mummy that is claimed to be Queen Nefertiti, the wife of King Akhenaten, was first discovered in 1898 by French Egyptologist Victor Loret within a cache of mummies in Tomb #35 in the Valley of the Kings, which belonged to King Amenhotep II. Years after the cache of mummies in Amenhotep II's tomb was revealed, Howard Carter, renowned for discovering Tutankhamun's tomb, relocated nine identified mummies – including those of Kings Thutmose IV, Amenhotep III, and Merneptah (son of the famous Ramesses II) – to Cairo. The story behind these caches dates back to the 21st Dynasty. At the time, Amon's priests sought to protect the royal mummies from widespread tomb robberies. To do so, they moved the mummies from their original burial sites to nearby tombs, and then to various hidden caches. The most famous of these is undoubtedly the Deir el-Bahari cache, unearthed in 1881. Carter left three mummies inside Amenhotep II's tomb, the first of which he named the 'Elder Lady.' Through the Royal Mummies Study Project, which I've led for years, we later confirmed that the Elder Lady's mummy is indeed the famous Queen Tiye, wife of King Amenhotep III, known as the 'Pasha of Ancient Egypt's Pharaohs,' and the mother of King Akhenaten. Next to Queen Tiye's mummy lay another mummy of a young boy, whom I believe to be a son of King Amenhotep III who died young, leaving the throne to his brother Akhenaten. The third mummy, the subject of this article, was initially believed by the French Egyptologist Loret to be that of a young boy with a bald head, a missing right arm, and a crushed area below the face. This mummy, known as the 'Younger Lady,' is the one that is widely proclaimed to be Queen Nefertiti, the wife of King Akhenaten. She lived alongside her husband during their struggles against the priests of Amun, moved with him to Amarna, and bore him six daughters, one of whom married the famous boy king Tutankhamun. However, upon Queen Tiye's (Nefertiti's mother-in-law) arrival in Amarna, Nefertiti completely withdrew from public life, living separately from Akhenaten in her palace with her daughters. Scientists have never found the tomb or the mummy of the beautiful queen, yet her fame endures through her exquisite bust displayed in the Berlin Museum. The struggle between us and the museum regarding the return of the queen's head to her homeland, Egypt, continues. Under my leadership, we successfully established the first-of-its-kind Egyptian Project for the Study of Royal and Non-Royal Mummies. This ambitious project aims to create a comprehensive database and record of all mummies located in tombs and storage facilities. Furthermore, it involves studying royal mummies using the latest CT-Scan technology and establishing the only DNA laboratory in the world specifically dedicated to mummy studies. This lab was initially located in the basement of the Egyptian Museum before being transferred to the National Museum of Egyptian Civilization in Fustat. We initially used the CT scanner to uncover the secrets of the controversial 'Younger Lady' mummy, which had been popularized as Nefertiti's. However, our studies concluded that she had no connection to Queen Nefertiti. One of the arguments proposed in favor of this being Nefertiti was the mummy's right arm position. When the mummy was discovered, its right arm was missing, though two separate arms were found nearby: one straight and one bent. While scientists initially believed the straight arm belonged to the mummy, a later study, using mummy measurements and x-ray analysis, revealed that the bone density of the straight arm differed from the rest of the body. This led him to conclude that the bent arm was the correct one. If true, the woman would have one straight left arm extending along her body and a bent right arm across her chest. This specific arm positioning, one straight and one bent, was a tradition reserved for queens. However, this doesn't confirm her identity as Nefertiti, as many other ancient Egyptian queen mummies have yet to be identified. The next article will delve deeper into the true identity of the Younger Lady mummy, fully dispelling the long-held belief that she was Queen Nefertiti.
Epoch Times
06-05-2025
- Entertainment
- Epoch Times
The Enigmatic Nefertiti Bust
The ancient Egyptian Queen Nefertiti is a world-famous beauty, a style icon, and a timeless pop culture sensation. Her life fascinates the general public and confounds experienced scholars. Nefertiti's international celebrity in the modern era dates to the first part of the 20th century, with the discovery and display of a piece of artwork—the Nefertiti bust, from circa 1351 to 1334 B.C. The tale of this limestone and stucco statue complements its sitter's epic story. Nefertiti, whose name means 'the Beautiful One Is Here' in the Egyptian language, was the chief wife of Pharaoh Amenhotep IV. She was born into a non-royal family circa 1370 B.C. The lack of clarity about her parentage and birth year set the stage for a life that has remained enigmatic. Very few records about Nefertiti have survived. Some writings and artworks were deliberately destroyed by successors, and the hoped-for discovery of her tomb and mummy have been frustratingly elusive. As a result, almost every detail of her life is subject to speculation and conflicting theories. The Royal Couple and Aten House altar: Akhenaten, Nefertiti and three of their daughters under the rays from the 18th Dynasty of Egypt. Limestone; 13 3/16 inches by 15 1/2 inches by 1 3/8 inches. Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection, State Museums of Berlin. Married as teenagers, Nefertiti and her husband were the Egyptian power couple of the 14th century B.C. They had six daughters together. One went on to marry the infamous Tutankhamun, who may have been the son of Amenhotep and a different wife. Amenhotep was a reforming leader, and Nefertiti was his integral partner. He moved the royal court from Thebes to an area named Akhetaten, meaning 'Horizon of the Aten,' near the present-day city of Amarna, Egypt. Furthermore, he established a new religion that replaced the polytheistic Egyptian deities with worship of Aten, the sun disk. This was perhaps an early form of monotheism, but assigning this definition is challenged by some in the field. The pharaoh changed his name to Akhenaten, which translates as 'pleasing to Aten.' Part of the collection of Berlin's Neues Museum is the limestone house altar featuring Akhenaten, Nefertiti and three of their daughters under the solar Aten. It dates likely to just after the royal court's move to its new city. It illustrates Nefertiti's power. She is depicted equal to her husband in several ways: Her figure's scale is the same as Akhenaten's; her name is of the same standing as his in the royal cartouche; and the sun god's rays extend the ankh symbol of 'life' in front of both of their noses. Related Stories 10/31/2023 4/21/2024 In the new religion, the royal couple and Aten form a divine trinity. There are political symbols in this family altar, too. Nefertiti's chair is decorated with a knot that binds together images of the papyrus and lotus. This symbolizes the historic unification of Upper and Lower Egypt. The children's heads are shown elongated to signify the life-giving power of the solar disk. Indeed, the Amarna art style is quite different from the status quo ancient Egyptian art marked by static and formal representations. Amarna art is characterized by elongated figures, including necks and high cheekbones, and incorporates elements of naturalism and dynamism. In addition, it is known for its portrayal of affectionate familial relationships, ranging from Akhenaten and Nefertiti holding hands to the queen tenderly embracing her children, such as in the intimate fragment 'Nefertiti and Her Daughter' at the Brooklyn Museum. "Nefertiti and Her Daughter," circa 1352–1336 B.C. Limestone, pigment; 8 3/4 inches by 1 5/16 inches by 17 1/2 inches. Charles Edwin Wilbour Fund, Brooklyn Museum. Brooklyn Museum This piece is also representative of how Akhenaten's reforms were unpopular. The pharaoh and his principal wife were 'erased' by subsequent rulers after his death who reinstated the formerly upended traditions and abandoned the city of Akhetaten. This relief reflects deliberate damage done to Nefertiti's face and inscriptions. Akhenaten and Nefertiti from the 18th Dynasty of Egypt. Limestone; 8 3/4 inches by 4 4/5 inches by 3 4/5 inches. Department of Egyptian Antiquities, Louvre Museum. Public Domain The dynamic between the couple have also come under scrutiny. Sometime after the 12th year of Akhenaten's tenure, Nefertiti's name disappeared from the record. Longstanding theories range from her death to her disfavor for only producing daughters or renouncing Atenism. However, in early 2012, a rockface with an inscription dating to the 16th year of Akhenaten's reign was found north of Amarna. It includes Nefertiti's name and refers to her as the Great Royal Wife. Now, many experts believe it likely that she survived her husband, who died the following year. Some Egyptologists wonder whether she served as co-regent at one point, was one of Akhenaten's monarchical successors, or both. Uncovering her burial place and mummy would potentially answer many questions. There are Egyptologists who believe she may lie in the West Valley of the Kings, while others propose that her grave is within a hidden chamber of Tutankhamun's tomb. Borchardt's Team 'Strikes Gold' Early photograph of the Nefertiti bust, taken after its discovery in 1912. ( In 1907, German Egyptologist and architectural historian Ludwig Borchardt made a proposal to the German Oriental Society for extended excavations at the ancient city of Akhetaten, called Tell el-Amarna in Arabic. The long-term project was greenlit and solely funded by the Society's founder, the Berliner James Simon, who was a wealthy Jewish businessman and arts patron. Simon has been The Egyptian Council of Antiquities granted an excavation license to Borchardt and his team, and they began their work in the winter of 1911 to 1912. Initial finds included residential houses, villas, and other complexes. Every area was numbered and every find was documented in sketches and a diary. The greatest treasures were found in 'P 47.2.' On Dec. 5, 1912, it became clear that 'P 47.2' was likely an artist's workshop and was determined to be that of the sculptor Thutmose. The following day, the team 'struck gold.' They uncovered a remarkably lifelike, colorful, and well-preserved bust of Nefertiti. Ludwig Borchardt's famous excavation diary entry states evocatively, 'Colours as if paint was just applied. Work absolutely exceptional. Description is useless, must be seen.' Bust of King Akhenaten, 18th Dynasty of Egypt. Limestone; 22 1/2 inches by 17 3/4 inches by 13 3/4 inches. Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection, State Museums of Berlin. Thutmose's workshop was a font of incredible art. In the same room as Nefertiti's sculpture was a bust of Akhenaten. Unfortunately, this life-size colored sculpture was not in as good condition as its counterpart. The pharaoh's face had been smashed purposefully. Its original state would have been majestic, and traces of paint and gilding are still visible. Busts are found throughout much of the classical world, but are rare in Egyptian art, which preferred the depiction of figures in full. It is possible that both busts would have been used in a temple or palace setting for veneration of the couple. The third major find was 'Stele of Akhenaten and his family.' Toward the end of the expedition, the required division of finds took place between the German team and the Egyptians. Egypt requested the stele, which is now in Cairo's Egyptian Museum. The Germans were allowed to export both busts of the royal couple along with other finds. "Stele of Akhenaten and his family" from the 18th Dynasty of Egypt. Egyptian Museum, Cairo. The ethics and legalities of this decision are debated to this day. The German share became the property of Simon as per the terms of the expedition. In 1920, Simon bequeathed all of the Amarna finds, including Nefertiti bust to Berlin's Egyptian Museum, which is housed today in the Neues Museum. A Pop Culture Phenomenon Bust of Queen Nefertiti from circa 1351–1334 B.C. Limestone, painted; Stucco; Beeswax, black; Rock crystal; 19 3/10 inches by 9 3/5 inches by 13 3/4 inches. Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection, State Museums of Berlin. For the past 16 years, the vivacious bust of Nefertiti has been dramatically displayed in its own gallery, the North Dome Room, at the Neues Museum. At 19 inches tall, it weighs approximately 44 pounds. It first went on public view in 1924 and immediately caused a sensation. Visitors from near and far were awestruck by the bust's aesthetics: symmetrical beauty with swanlike neck and high cheekbones, confident gaze, and realistic details, such as delicate neck muscles. This image of Nefertiti quickly became iconic, comparable to Leonardo's 'Mona Lisa.' It was featured in all manner of media, including beauty columns, fashion designs, advertisements, and even a Mickey Mouse comic. One of the bust's greatest style influences was its kohl rimmed almond-shaped eyes. Women have imitated the cat-eye makeup look since the bust's museum debut. In 'Eyeliner: A Cultural History' by Zahra Hankir, the author writes, 'All features considered, the allure of the queen's eyes—framed with thick black lines—is unparalleled. The lines are perfectly symmetrical, meeting at the edges of the eyes to form her trademark flicks. From a strictly aesthetic perspective, the tracing defines and widens the windows into Nefertiti's soul, lending them a fresh-looking yet sultry appearance.' Limestone piece showing head of Nefertiti from Amarna, Egypt. The Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology, London. Fashions mimicking the bust's wide collar and hats and hairstyles resembling her flat-topped crown have also been popular in the 20th and 21st centuries. Most ancient Egyptian art lacks expressive emotion, making Nefertiti's poised visage with its suggestions of an inner life a rarity. The fact that it was found whole with damage confined only to a missing left eye and some fragmentation to the ears and crown is remarkable. The artist took great care to depict her face with total precision, which can be appreciated when viewing the individual cross-hatched eyebrow hairs. The natural pigments used include carbon black, green frit, red ochre, and yellow orpiment, as well as the synthetic 'Egyptian blue'—the oldest known man-made pigment. The crown is encircled by a gold band and adorned with a uraeus, a sacred symbol of an Egyptian cobra signifying supreme power. The iris and pupil of the extant right eye consist of beeswax dyed black covered with a slender bit of polished rock crystal as the cornea. The left eye is missing a corresponding inlay. Borchardt and his team found no sign of it, though they carried out an in-depth search, and the bust's socket itself does not show any trace of having once had one. That begs the question of why. No answer has produced a consensus among experts. The Berlin State Museums expounds upon the importance of Nefertiti bust, writing: 'The sheer variety of appropriations of the image and the transformation of the bust from an archaeological artefact to a phenomenon of pop culture attest to its universal significance. Independently of all these uses, the bust of Nefertiti speaks for itself. It truly is part of our world heritage.' Miraculously, it has survived the sands of time to stand the test of time. What arts and culture topics would you like us to cover? Please email ideas or feedback to
Euronews
21-04-2025
- Science
- Euronews
3,400-year-old Egyptian town with links to King Tutankhamun unearthed near Alexandria
ADVERTISEMENT A French team of archaeologists have made a remarkable discovery - the ruins of a 3,400-year-old Egyptian town near the modern-day city of Alexandria, that was possibly built by the legendary King Tutankhamun's father, Akhenaten. Detailed in a new study published in Antiquity , the mud-brick ruins are believed to date back to Egypt's 18th Dynasty (circa 1550–1292 BCE), a period known for its wealth, power, and dramatic shifts in religious ideology. The site, known as Kom el-Nugus, lies 27 miles west of Alexandria, perched on a rocky ledge between the Mediterranean Sea and Lake Mariout. Although excavations began in 2013, it was long assumed that the area had only been settled during the Hellenistic period, when the Greeks arrived around 332 BCE. 'The discovery of New Kingdom remains at the site was a great surprise,' lead archaeologist Sylvain Dhennin of the University of Lyon and the French National Centre for Scientific Research told the New Scientist . 'This discovery completely revises the history of Egypt's western frontier in the New Kingdom.' The ancient settlement likely dates back to Egypt's 18th Dynasty (around 1550–1292 BCE). Credit: Cambridge University Press A stone block featuring Ra-Horakhty, the god of the rising sun, from the temple of Ramesses II. Credit: Cambridge Core Among the most noteworthy finds found during the excavation were amphora jar fragments stamped with the name Merytaton, who was believed to the eldest daughter of revolutionary pharaoh Akhenaten and his queen, Nefertiti - and thus making her the sister or half-sister of Tutankhamun. The markings indicate the settlement could have been a wine production facility that may have been dedicated to her, suggesting that royal branding and product endorsements existed in ancient Egypt. "The presence of this stamp probably indicates the production of wine belonging to a royal estate" study author Sylvain Dhennin, an archaeologist with the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), told Live Science . "The vineyards on the margins of Egypt were probably protected by the military and formed part of a pioneering front to occupy this region towards the desert." Other discoveries include fragments of a stele bearing the cartouches of Pharaoh Seti II (r. 1203–1197 BCE), and architectural remnants linked to a temple honouring Ramesses II - a ruler often speculated to be the pharaoh of the biblical Exodus. While the full scale of the settlement remains unknown, the presence of a meticulously designed street, cleverly sloped to drain water and protect buildings from erosion, points to a town of significant size and sophistication. Related Archaeologists unearth 3,200-year-old tomb linked to ancient Egypt's military elite The Bashiri mystery: A 2,300-year-old Egyptian mummy that no archaeologist dares to open Other recent ancient Egyptian discoveries The discovery of the settlement adds to a series of major Egyptian archaeological finds this year. Just last month, archaeologists unearthed the tomb of Pharaoh Thutmose II - the first pharaonic burial site found since Tutankhamun's in 1922. Discovered by a joint British-Egyptian team led by Dr Piers Litherland, the tomb was hidden away in the Western Valleys of the Theban Necropolis, near Luxor. The exterior of Thutmose II's tomb, discovered in the Western Valleys of the Theban Necropolis, near Luxor. Credit: Wikimedia Commons/Amel Eweida/New Kingdom Research Foundation Mohamed Ismail Khaled, the secretary general of Egypt's Supreme Court of Antiquities, said in a statement that the discovery was 'one of the most significant archeological breakthroughs in recent years.' Days later, the same team announced they may have located a second tomb belonging to Thutmose II, buried 23 metres beneath a carefully disguised mound of rubble, limestone, ash, and mud plaster. Litherland believes the tomb could contain the pharaoh's mummified remains and grave goods. 'The best candidate for what is hidden underneath this enormously expensive, in terms of effort, pile is the second tomb of Thutmose II,' he told The Observer. And earlier this year, a French-Swiss archaeological team in Egypt made another remarkable discovery - the tomb of a high-ranking wizard-doctor who served the pharaohs some 4,000 years ago. Inscriptions identify the tomb's owner as Tetinebefou, a celebrated doctor during the reign of King Pepi II (circa 2305–2118 BC).
Yahoo
21-04-2025
- Science
- Yahoo
3,400-year-old Egyptian town with links to King Tutankhamun unearthed near Alexandria
A French team of archaeologists have made a remarkable discovery - the ruins of a 3,400-year-old Egyptian town near the modern-day city of Alexandria, that was possibly built by the legendary King Tutankhamun's father, Akhenaten. Detailed in a new study published in Antiquity, the mud-brick ruins are believed to date back to Egypt's 18th Dynasty (circa 1550–1292 BCE), a period known for its wealth, power, and dramatic shifts in religious ideology. The site, known as Kom el-Nugus, lies 27 miles west of Alexandria, perched on a rocky ledge between the Mediterranean Sea and Lake Mariout. Although excavations began in 2013, it was long assumed that the area had only been settled during the Hellenistic period, when the Greeks arrived around 332 BCE. 'The discovery of New Kingdom remains at the site was a great surprise,' lead archaeologist Sylvain Dhennin of the University of Lyon and the French National Centre for Scientific Research told the New Scientist. 'This discovery completely revises the history of Egypt's western frontier in the New Kingdom.' Among the most noteworthy finds found during the excavation were amphora jar fragments stamped with the name Merytaton, who was believed to the eldest daughter of revolutionary pharaoh Akhenaten and his queen, Nefertiti - and thus making her the sister or half-sister of Tutankhamun. The markings indicate the settlement could have been a wine production facility that may have been dedicated to her, suggesting that royal branding and product endorsements existed in ancient Egypt. "The presence of this stamp probably indicates the production of wine belonging to a royal estate" study author Sylvain Dhennin, an archaeologist with the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), told Live Science. "The vineyards on the margins of Egypt were probably protected by the military and formed part of a pioneering front to occupy this region towards the desert." Other discoveries include fragments of a stele bearing the cartouches of Pharaoh Seti II (r. 1203–1197 BCE), and architectural remnants linked to a temple honouring Ramesses II - a ruler often speculated to be the pharaoh of the biblical Exodus. While the full scale of the settlement remains unknown, the presence of a meticulously designed street, cleverly sloped to drain water and protect buildings from erosion, points to a town of significant size and sophistication. Related Archaeologists unearth 3,200-year-old tomb linked to ancient Egypt's military elite The Bashiri mystery: A 2,300-year-old Egyptian mummy that no archaeologist dares to open The discovery of the settlement adds to a series of major Egyptian archaeological finds this year. Just last month, archaeologists unearthed the tomb of Pharaoh Thutmose II - the first pharaonic burial site found since Tutankhamun's in 1922. Discovered by a joint British-Egyptian team led by Dr Piers Litherland, the tomb was hidden away in the Western Valleys of the Theban Necropolis, near Luxor. Mohamed Ismail Khaled, the secretary general of Egypt's Supreme Court of Antiquities, said in a statement that the discovery was 'one of the most significant archeological breakthroughs in recent years.' Days later, the same team announced they may have located a second tomb belonging to Thutmose II, buried 23 metres beneath a carefully disguised mound of rubble, limestone, ash, and mud plaster. Litherland believes the tomb could contain the pharaoh's mummified remains and grave goods. 'The best candidate for what is hidden underneath this enormously expensive, in terms of effort, pile is the second tomb of Thutmose II,' he told The Observer. And earlier this year, a French-Swiss archaeological team in Egypt made another remarkable discovery - the tomb of a high-ranking wizard-doctor who served the pharaohs some 4,000 years ago. Inscriptions identify the tomb's owner as Tetinebefou, a celebrated doctor during the reign of King Pepi II (circa 2305–2118 BC).
Yahoo
12-04-2025
- Science
- Yahoo
Newfound ancient Egyptian town had links with Queen Nefertiti's daughter
When you buy through links on our articles, Future and its syndication partners may earn a commission. Archaeologists in Egypt have uncovered the remains of a "major" 3,400-year-old town dating to the New Kingdom that was possibly built by King Tutankhamun's father and later added to by Ramesses II, a new study finds. The settlement was found at the site of Kom el-Nugus in northern Egypt, about 27 miles (43 kilometers) west of Alexandria on a rocky ridge between the Mediterranean Sea and Lake Mariout. Previously, Egyptologists thought the site was not inhabited until later times, when the Greeks founded their own settlement and necropolis there around 332 B.C., during Egypt's Hellenistic period. Researchers found the older ancient Egyptian settlement while they were studying the Greek one. An unexpected discovery of mudbrick dating to the New Kingdom (circa 1550 to 1070 B.C.) revealed the earliest known Egyptian settlement north of Lake Mariout, according to the study, which was published Jan. 23 in the journal Antiquity. It's not clear exactly how large the settlement was, "but the quality of the remains, their planned organization around a street, could suggest a fairly large-scale occupation," study author Sylvain Dhennin, an archaeologist with the French National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), told Live Science in an email. The street was designed to drain surface water and protect buildings from water erosion. "There was a temple, built by King Ramses II, as well as private funerary chapels, which mention military personnel," said Dhennin, who is leading excavations at the site. "If the settlement was indeed military in nature, it's possible that there was also a fortified wall and administrative buildings." Related: What did King Tut look like? One particularly interesting find is a stamp on part of an amphora jar that has the name of Merytaton (also spelled Meritaten) on it. Merytaton was the daughter of the pharaoh Akhenaten (reign 1349 to 1336 B.C.) and his wife Nefertiti. Akhenaten unleashed a religious revolution that tried to focus Egypt's religion around the worship of Aten, the sun disk. His son, King Tutankhamun (ruled circa 1336 to 1327 B.C.), later brought back Egypt's traditional polytheistic religion. "The presence of this stamp probably indicates the production of wine belonging to a royal estate" that dates back to the time of Merytaton, Dhennin said. "The vineyards on the margins of Egypt were probably protected by the military and formed part of a pioneering front to occupy this region towards the desert," he said, noting that it's possible that this settlement was founded during the reign of Akhenaten. RELATED STORIES —Mysterious artifacts from King Tut's tomb might have been used in 'awakening Osiris' ritual —Ancient Egyptian pyramids, thought to contain only the elite, may also hold low-class laborers —The first evidence of 'head cones' found in 3,300-year-old Egyptian tomb Roger Forshaw, an honorary lecturer at the KNH Centre for Biomedical Egyptology at the University of Manchester who was not involved with the research, praised the team's work and noted that the "the presence of a temple underscores its strategic and cultural importance." Forshaw also noted the sophisticated design of the street. "This street was ingeniously designed with a water-collecting system to drain surface water and protect the fragile mudbrick walls," Forshaw said. Excavations at the site are ongoing, and Dhennin said they may help reveal how large the settlement was and when exactly it was founded. Another question is what Egyptians called the settlement in ancient times.
