14-02-2025
‘Most good or bad behaviour comes from conformity': Dr Hanno Sauer
Dr Hanno Sauer, a writer and philosopher from Germany, attended the Emirates Airline Festival of Literature on February 1, 2025 for a talk about his book The Invention of Good and Evil. Dr Sauer teaches ethics at the University of Utrecht, Netherlands and is working on bringing 'empirical findings from various disciplines to bear on philosophical questions'. He has another book all set to release soon. Wknd. caught up with the author to explore the inspirations behind his work and his perspective on morality in today's world.
Morality is a subjective concept for most human beings, yet it seems to have certain defined principles across cultures, societies, and nations. What common themes have you found that seem to join humanity regarding morality? Do you believe there is a historical context to it?
In one sense, morality is subjective; in another, it isn't. It is subjective in that it depends on human beings—while diamonds would exist even if humans had never evolved, morality is a construct that arises from human existence. However, morality isn't subjective in the sense of being arbitrary, made up, or entirely different from culture to culture. At its core, morality is about cooperation and how we live together as a society. So helping others, rules against theft or violence, principles of fairness and the desire for freedom are universal in all societies, even if they sometimes get crushed by powerful forces.
Many also argue that people behave morally out of fear, whether of the law or an afterlife. However, human beings also have a tendency to succumb to their darkest desires. What is your take on this?
We need social sanctions to maintain cooperation and prevent societal collapse. These sanctions can range from soft measures, like gossip, to strict penalties, such as imprisonment. However, it's important to shape society in a way that minimises the need for such sanctions. When they are necessary, they should be fair and proportionate—not excessively harsh, but as mild as possible. Mostly, however, people aren't good because they are afraid of the afterlife or bad because of their darkest instincts. Most good or bad behaviour comes from conformity, the desire to fit in.
In the modern era, where social media dominates discourse, do you think morality has shifted towards actions that attract more attention? For instance, some influencers create videos showcasing acts of kindness, while others argue that these gestures are merely performative, done to gain followers and likes. What is your perspective on this?
People have always tried to broadcast their virtues to other people, so this is nothing new. The main difference is that with social media, it is sometimes possible to reach thousands of people at once. This can encourage a kind of moral performance that is driven by engagement, such as likes and clicks. It's a bit too early to tell what the long-term consequences of this will be.
What made you choose the subject of morality as your focus of research?
I've just always been personally interested in these questions: what is justice? How should a good society look like? How should we treat each other? I think the best way to address these questions is by looking at how morality works, and how it has worked over the course of human history.
Is your perspective on morality inherently optimistic? Do you believe criminals can genuinely reform, and that society can progress towards positive evolution if provided with sufficient resources?
I like to say that I am 51 per cent optimistic. I do think that there are forces in humanity that can lead to its long term moral improvement, but there are no guarantees this will happen. Mostly, we should allow human beings to live freely and to continue to experiment with different lfestyles, values, and norms, so that we can figure out new and better ways to improve our lives.
