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Wales Online
2 days ago
- General
- Wales Online
Students split on Welsh Bacc as some brand it 'waste of time' but others back it
Students split on Welsh Bacc as some brand it 'waste of time' but others back it The post-16 Advanced Skills Welsh Baccalaureate is compulsory in most maintained schools and colleges even though the Welsh Government doesn't demand it Coleg Sir Gar A-level students Sam Bartlett and Ioan Armstrong (Image: Ioan Armstrong ) Students, parents, former pupils, and teachers have been airing their views on the Advanced Skills Welsh Baccalaureate. Some said the Wales-only qualification is a "waste of time" while others, including a qualified pharmacist, insist it's what got them into university. The post-16 100% coursework subject is compulsory in most maintained schools and colleges in Wales. Two students have launched a campaign to make it optional, which has got people talking. After WalesOnline wrote about the campaign by Coleg Sir Gar AS students Ioan Armstrong and Sam Bartlett lots of readers had something to say. Sam and Ioan say the qualification has some value for some students but not all and argued they shouldn't have to do it. Although the Welsh Bacc is not a compulsory subject legally the pair say that colleges and schools are effectively forced to make it compulsory because they get extra funding if all students take it. The friends put in freedom of information requests showing colleges get £1,000-plus per Welsh Bacc student. They have launched a petition to change the funding rules which has had 315 signatures in two days. The teenagers have also written to education minister Lynne Neagle asking her to change the funding, raised the matter with their college, and organised a separate 137-signature petition with classmates. Sign up for our free daily briefing on the biggest issues facing the nation sign up to the Wales Matters newsletter here. Article continues below Sam, 16, and Ioan, 17, say the 100%-coursework qualification piles on workload and stress at already pressured exam time. This means they don't have as much time for their other three A-levels, which could affect their grades. After reading their comments teenagers, parents, former students, and others responded to our story on Instagram with differing views. Some said the Welsh Bacc, as it's colloquially known, was valuable while others agreed with Sam and Ioan that it wasn't useful for them and shouldn't be compulsory.. The qualification holds Ucas points and is officially considered equal to an A-level. It is accepted by most universities but not for all courses such as some medical and other degrees. Lots of other teenagers agreed in the comments that the Welsh Bacc might be useful for some students but said it's unfair to make all pupils study for it. said: "It's a complete waste of time which could be better spent on subjects we actually chose to do." But jakob,j05 said the qualification helped his university application: "I think the Welsh bacc is a great backup A/A* grade for if your option choices don't go as well as you need. From personal experience, it was the reason I got into the uni I wanted so I fully support the course. As for the mandatory nature, I agree that it can be taxing on those taking other demanding A-levels, so making this an optional subject may very well improve the A-level experience for students." One commenter, morganm.2105, said they are now a qualified pharmacist thanks to the Wales-only qualification. "Welsh bac actually saved my uni application. Had a decent grade in it and it was taken into account when I went through clearing. Just finished my second year as a qualified pharmacist!" Another supporter, wrote: "Honestly Welsh bac was the subject that saved me when it came to going to a below average uni. A in that and cce in everything else. Needed 3cs and that's what got me in." But -sweetietooth_ had a less positive experience writing: "none of my university accepts welsh bacc as an A level. Such a waste of time" and wrote: "if the subject was optional no one would do it." Second-year A-level student betahnlh_ said she'd changed her views: "Personally, at first didn't like Welsh Bacc but now in year 2 of a levels it is amazing, the actual work isn't the best but a level exams are made to really just test how much you can remember at once not your skills and you have ti revise and remember so much, yet welsh bacc you get to do the whole course as coursework no exams and when you compare it to all of the other subjects you sit it is so much easier and you still get a strong grade and it gives you the skills ready to use in uni/ future education." This wasn't the case for who wrote: "God I hated Bacc. I don't know a single person who didn't tbh even the very top students that I knew who went on to Russel group unis thought it was a waste of time and tried to get out of it. Just stressful and unnecessary when the only thing you do is thing you would have done in other subjects anyway. Yes for some it was an easy A if you were good at coursework but it's hard to be passionate about such a tedious thing." And parent jockark reckoned it was too much work at already high-pressure exam time. "Welsh Bacc on top of 3 very demanding A levels has nearly tipped my child over the edge!! There's absolutely nothing Welsh or Wales across the course!!" Anther former student said it had been no help. "Did Welsh BACC and it had no benefit to my main subject I was studying in college, a complete waste of my time that could have been spent on studying for my main qualification that was actually gonna get me into uni," wrote brog_gram. Umamifooddesign said they chose to send their child across the border to avoid the Welsh Bacc: "Living on the border we had choices - our son went to school in England from senior school onwards. It was a family choice, primarily to avoid learning welsh at gcse level." Another commenter, a teacher, said: "Welsh Bacc can be used to your advantage when applying to uni, e.g. do your individual project on a related topic - gives you something extra to talk about on your form or at interview. Aspects of it could be improved, but it's not all bad. Welsh BACC is a fantastic course which gives our students a wealth of skills and the freedom to research a topic of their choice. We are extremely fortunate in Wales to have this programme." Ioan and Sam stressed they were not criticising their college or other schools and colleges. They were told in reply to information they asked for under FOI that Coleg Sir Gar received more than £360,000 annually for running the Welsh Bacc. They calculated that this was the equivalent to the pay for around seven lecturers and not money the college could afford to lose so said they understood why it made the course a requirement. Sam is studying A-level law, sociology, and politics and wants to do a civil service apprenticeship, not university, after A-levels and he said the Welsh Bacc could be useful for some but not all students and they should be able to decide. Ioan, 17, who is studying politics, psychology, and sociology A-levels plus the Welsh Bacc, wants to go to university to study politics. The pair also argue that the stress the Welsh Bacc caused already under-pressure students went against the Welsh Government's own wellbeing guidance which, ironically, is part of the course. "We are campaigning for a policy change where colleges still get the funding if Welsh Bacc is optional," said Ioan, 17, adding: "The Welsh Government claims it is optional when in practice it is compulsory. The Welsh Bacc will not be useful to me but this isn't just about me." He claimed "the Welsh Bacc is not in the slightest bit as valuable as an A-level". He also claimed some teachers did not agree with the qualification being "forced" on students and that it was all coursework and "parroting from online". He said he had found parts of the course "pointless" including having to take personality tests and reading information about wellbeing targets in Wales and for the UN. He claimed much of the course was repeated across other more important subjects anyway. A Welsh Government spokesman responding to our first story on the campaign said: 'The Advanced Skills Baccalaureate Wales provides learners opportunities to develop and apply key skills in practical situations. "We are clear that it is not compulsory for learners to take the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate; school sixth forms and colleges are able to set their own curriculum offer and admissions policies. They should ensure that they are providing opportunities that are in the best interests of their learners.' The Welsh Bacc post-16 explained In September 2023 the new Advanced Skills Baccalaureate Wales (level three) replaced the existing Advanced Welsh Baccalaureate qualification. The Welsh Government says on its website that the qualification aims to equip students with practical skills, personal development, and social awareness, making them "better prepared for higher education, vocational training, and the workforce". It's designed to be integrated with traditional academic studies and is often studied alongside A-levels or other vocational qualifications. "Welsh Bacc is a valuable qualification for post-16 students in Wales, designed to enhance skills and prepare them for future pathways. It's a composite qualification that includes a Skills Challenge Certificate and supporting academic achievements. The Advanced level is particularly relevant for those pursuing higher education with its Ucas points equivalent to an A-level." The Skills Challenge Certificate is a key part of the course and is assessed through four areas: an individual project, enterprise and employability challenge, global citizenship challenge, and community challenge. To achieve the Welsh Bacc learners must also meet specific requirements related to GCSEs in English or Welsh language, and mathematics or mathematics-numeracy. Article continues below
Wales Online
28-05-2025
- Politics
- Wales Online
Wales' post-16 Welsh Bacc is partly 'pointless' and hurting other subjects, claim students
Wales' post-16 Welsh Bacc is partly 'pointless' and hurting other subjects, claim students They want it made fully optional for students without schools and colleges losing funding as a result Coleg Sir Gar students Sam Bartlett (left) and Ioan Armstrong (right) (Image: Ioan Armstrong ) A group of A level students have slated the Advanced Skills Welsh Baccalaureate, a compulsory post-16 subject in most maintained schools and colleges, as "a waste of time". They say it is affecting study and grades for more important subjects as well as causing unnecessary added stress at exam time. Coleg Sir Gar AS students Ioan Armstrong and Sam Bartlett said the Wales-only qualification had some value, for some students, but was not A level equivalent as claimed. They want it it to be made optional without schools and colleges losing funding as a result. The teenagers have written to Education Minister Lynne Neagle asking her to change the funding, raised the matter with their college, and organised a 137-signature petition with classmates. They have also made Freedom of Information requests about the cash received for institutions for running the "Welsh Bacc", as it's colloquially known. The qualification is not a compulsory requirement from the Welsh Government, but the pair claim that it is compulsory in effect because of the valuable and vital funding Cardiff Bay gives to schools and colleges to run it. This meant schools and colleges demanded that students take the Welsh Bacc, although it was not a legal requirement, they said. Sign up for our free daily briefing on the biggest issues facing the nation sign up to the Wales Matters newsletter here. Ioan and Sam were told in reply to information they asked for under FOI that Coleg Sir Gar received more than £360,000 annually for running the Welsh Bacc. They calculated that this was the equivalent to the pay for around seven lecturers and not money the college could afford to lose, so said they understood why it made the course a requirement. The students stressed they were not criticising Coleg Sir Gar, or other schools and colleges, or calling for the qualification to be shelved. They just wanted the system which meant it was effectively compulsory, changed. The pair argued the stress the qualification caused already under-pressure students went against the Welsh Government's own wellbeing guidance, which, ironically, is part of the course. Ioan, 17, who is studying politics, psychology and sociology A levels plus (reluctantly) the Welsh Bacc, and wants to go to university to study politics, pointed out that some university courses, such as medicine in some institutions, did not accept the qualification as A level equivalent in their offers, although the qualification holds the same UCAS points as an A level. "We are campaigning for a policy change where colleges still get the funding if Welsh Bacc is optional," said Ioan, 17, adding: "The Welsh Government claims it is optional when in practice it is compulsory. The Welsh Bacc will not be useful to me, but this isn't just about me." He claimed "the Welsh Bacc is not in the slightest bit as valuable as an A level". He also claimed some teachers did not agree with the qualification being "forced" on students and that it was all coursework and "parroting from online". He said he had found parts of the course "pointless", including having to take personality tests and reading information about wellbeing targets in Wales and for the UN. He claimed much of the course was repeated across other more important subjects anyway. "I am concerned I might get lower grades because of the time I have to spend on the Welsh Bacc. I take it seriously in the sense I don't want to fail, but it takes so much time. I am stressing about it when I could be revising for my AS exams." Sam, 16, is studying A level law, sociology and politics and wants to do a civil service apprenticeship, not university, after A levels, and he said the Welsh Bacc could be useful for some, but not all students, and they should be able to decide. "This is not just about our personal experience," he insisted, adding: "The Welsh Bacc course takes time away from other subjects and grades. This is not about getting rid of the Welsh Bacc, it's about making it optional. "As a course the Welsh Bacc encompasses useful skills like how to plan but that doesn't mean it should not be optional. I can guarantee that doing Welsh bacc half the class is on their phones - it has quite high pass rates though." Sam claimed the Welsh Bacc course was time consuming rather than intellectually challenging: "The practicalitity of it is I get my Welsh Bacc work done the night before it's due because it's that easy. You could use AI to do it all. It's pointless." When they wrote to Education Minister Lynne Neagle, Ioan and Sam received a reply from her officials explaining that colleges (and schools) received funding to run the Welsh Bacc, as they did for other courses. The reply said guidance was being reviewed. The Welsh Government officials told them: "Although the expectation is that all young people aged 14-19 have the opportunity to study the Welsh Baccalaureate and associated Skills Challenge Certificate (the predecessor to the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate), they have the right not to. It is not statutory, and schools and colleges should be using some flexibility to ensure that they are providing opportunities that are in the best interests of their learners. "Medr's (the funding body) expectation is that all colleges in Wales undertake a thorough Initial Advice and Guidance (IAG) process with all their learners before enrolment ensues. "Although Welsh Government is clear that it is not compulsory for learners to take the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate, school sixth forms and colleges are able to set their own curriculum offer and admissions policies. The guidance for schools and colleges on what they should offer more widely is available as part of "Local Curriculum for students aged 16 to 18 Guidace". You will note that this guidance predates the introduction of the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate. "Following the creation of Medr, Welsh Government is currently reviewing the guidance and will be considering, as part of this work, if any further information is needed on the role of the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate Wales qualification within 16-19 learning. This work is likely to be subject to public consultation, and I would be happy to share the details of this with you at the appropriate time, should you wish to contribute your views and that of your peers?" Coleg Sir Gar said no-one was available for comment. In a Written Statement in April, Lynne Neagle hinted at a review saying: "We will work with partners to refresh the guidance on local curricula for 16 to 19-year-old students." A Welsh Government spokesperson said: 'The Advanced Skills Baccalaureate Wales provides learners opportunities to develop and apply key skills in practical situations. "We are clear that it is not compulsory for learners to take the Advanced Skills Baccalaureate; school sixth forms and colleges are able to set their own curriculum offer and admissions policies. They should ensure that they are providing opportunities that are in the best interests of their learners.'. The welsh Bacc post-16 explained In September, 2023, the new Advanced Skills Baccalaureate Wales (level 3) replaced the existing Advanced Welsh Baccalaureate qualification The Welsh Government says on its website that the qualification aims to equip students with practical skills, personal development, and social awareness, making them "better prepared for higher education, vocational training, and the workforce". It's designed to be integrated with traditional academic studies and is often studied alongside A levels or other vocational qualifications. "Welsh Bacc is a valuable qualification for post-16 students in Wales, designed to enhance skills and prepare them for future pathways. It's a composite qualification that includes a Skills Challenge Certificate and supporting academic achievements. The Advanced level is particularly relevant for those pursuing higher education, with its UCAS points equivalent to an A-level." The Skills Challenge Certificate is a key part of the course and is assessed through four areas: an individual project, enterprise and employability challenge, global citizenship challenge, and community challenge. To achieve the Welsh Bacc, learners must also meet specific requirements related to GCSEs in English or Welsh language, and mathematics or mathematics-numeracy. The Advanced level Skills Challenge Certificate (SCC) carries UCAS tariff points and is equivalent to an A level, according to the Senedd. Article continues below
