21-03-2025
Mitch Ryder On New Album With Love, Detroit, Approach To Business Side
Mitch Ryder poses prior to a performance at the Aracada Theatre. Sunday, November 10, 2024 in St. ... More Charles, IL
In the mid 60s, Mitch Ryder tallied classic top 10 hits like 'Jenny Take a Ride' and 'Devil With a Blue Dress On/Good Golly Miss Molly,' recording alongside famed backing band the Detroit Wheels while releasing both singles via producer Bob Crewe's New Line Records.
At that point, Detroit, Michigan was a hotbed for an array of diverse music, with the Motown sound set against that of rockers Bob Seger, Alice Cooper and Ted Nugent as well as punk acts like Iggy Pop and The Stooges or the MC5.
The hybrid of his urban upbringing in conjunction with that musical diversity would come to inform the music Ryder would make, with the Motor City itself continually seeping in.
Despite the early hit parade, Ryder would go nearly three decades without releasing new music in America, building a rabid fanbase in Europe while releasing his music abroad.
Last year, Ryder, 80, teamed with German blues label Ruf Records for the release of the double live album The Roof is on Fire, taking part in a series of incendiary performances across the U.S. alongside blues guitarist Samantha Fish, 36, as part of a throwback caravan tour celebrating the label at 30.
Samantha Fish (left) and Mitch Ryder (right) perform on stage during a 30th anniversary celebration ... More of Ruf Records. Sunday, November 10, 2024 at the Arcada Theatre in St. Charles, IL
Building on that success, Ryder delivers the new studio album With Love, working with legendary Detroit-born producer Don Was on a collection of 10 new songs recorded just outside Detroit at Rustbelt Studios in Royal Oak, MI.
'We had a history of working together. And so we kind of knew what to expect from each other and what to bring to the table. And it was kind of magical at moments to be honest with you,' said Ryder during a recent phone conversation, looking back on two months worth of recording with Was. 'We did all of the bed tracks in almost five days - four and a half days. Which is, I think, a milestone when you're making a world class record. We really were up riding a cloud for the entire time. It was something that I'll never forget in my life,' he said. 'And it brought out some of the best musicians in the area. Everybody included in the recording of the album all are sort of regional heroes in their own right and in their own genres. It was really an all-star cast of Detroit musicians. And that really, really helps.'
While Ryder was allegedly dissuaded by Crewe from writing his own songs in the 60s, With Love features 10 Ryder originals. 'One Monkey' addresses addiction while 'Oh What a Night' and 'Wrong Hands' drill down on turbulent times. 'Fly,' in its examination of both career and body of work, responds in optimistic fashion, while 'The Artist,' a stunning co-write with his wife, Margaret Levise, a poet, delivers a moving rumination on the relationship between art and artist.
I spoke with Mitch Ryder about working with Was on With Love, now available on CD and vinyl or for online streaming via Ruf Records, the impact of Detroit, penetrating the U.S. market, his approach to the business side six decades in and what's next. A transcript of our phone conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity, follows below.
CIRCA 1965: Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels (L-R Jim McCarty, Joe Kubert, Mitch Ryder, John ... More Badanjek and Jim McCallister pose for a portrait circa 1965. (Photo by Michael)
Jim Ryan: What's it been like working with Ruf Records now on these two albums?
Mitch Ryder: Well, clearly it's a new experience. It's not that I haven't had experience working with foreign, European record labels, but they're not huge programs. But they've found themselves a place in the marketplace, so it's very helpful to have that support.
I admire Mr. Ruf for what he's done over the decades for the blues scene - and found myself befuddled to come back to the American charts via the Billboard Blues chart. My past experience - that and the [1983] album [Never Kick a Sleeping Dog] with Mellencamp producing and one other one - were the only ones to reenter [the charts]. And that takes a lot of muscle and a lot of power - and top line record companies - to achieve that.
I just know that I was blessed and given an opportunity that I did not waste.
Ryan: Recording this record just outside Detroit proper the way you did - how has Detroit kind of historically seeped into the music you make?
Ryder: I couldn't do it without my cultural upbringing in the city itself. It's unique.
I think what really makes it important historically is that we managed to do a hybrid between my urban experience growing up and mixed that with the all-American rock and roll of what was soon to become the Detroit Wheels. So, that particular musical combination - the dynamics of it, the sound that it created - was quite different. At least in Detroit, from my experience, it was different and unique - and apparently the public thought as much.
And it brought out some of the best musicians in the area. Everybody included in the recording of the album all are sort of regional heroes in their own right and in their own genres. It was really an all-star cast of Detroit musicians. And that really, really helps. And then you have Don Was producing.
So, I'm very happy with the outcome. Very happy.
Mitch Ryder poses prior to a performance at the Arcada Theatre. Sunday, November 10, 2024 in St. ... More Charles, IL
Ryan: Obviously you and Don share Detroit as a significant part of your identity. And I've heard you say he kind of speaks the same language in that way. What was it like working with him on the With Love album?
Ryder: Well, it wasn't new. Because we had a history of working together. And so we kind of knew what to expect from each other and what to bring to the table. And it was kind of magical at moments to be honest with you. Because I never walked into a studio filled with that much talent with that good of a producer.
We did all of the bed tracks in almost five days - four and a half days. Which is, I think, a milestone when you're making a world class record. Wow. We really were up riding a cloud for the entire time. It was something that I'll never forget in my life. Because it's been so rare that I was given that opportunity to work with top line people.
Ryan: There's such an honesty in the songwriting on With Love. What kind of allowed you to go there in that depth the way that you did with this album?
Ryder: It's just my declared evaluation of my talent - which, of course, is going to be ego driven.
And I've been trying to establish myself as a singer songwriter. Because Bob Crewe, the original producer, he had his own little publishing deal going. And, unlike many of the U.K. groups that were coming to America at the time, he dissuaded us from trying to write our own music. He wanted complete control of everything that came out on his label - that means control of the publishing.
You have to understand - he was one man. He was our accountant, he was our manager, our record producer, our PR guy - he was doing all of that and making all of those decisions. And so that was a wild horse unleashed.
Mitch Ryder performs on stage at the Arcada Theatre. Sunday, November 10, 2024 in St. Charles, IL
Ryan: I really enjoyed 'The Artist.' It starts with such a sparse track. And yet, in juxtaposition to that, you also seem to be crying out with a desire for more. How did that song come together?
Ryder: 'The Artist' is a song about what art does to an artist.
This is the only song on the album that I'm sharing a writing credit on. My wife is a poet. So, when I was compiling the list - and I had a few moments to sort of look around and take a breath - I started thumbing through her poems. And I came to this one that she had buried somewhere called 'The Artist.' And I asked her permission to put music to it. And she said I could. And so that's how that was born. And that was the meaning of the song.
Art is a complicated deal. It's a hit or miss thing. It doesn't stay forever. Nobody is guaranteed. Once you have a successful venture as an artist, that doesn't mean your next one is going to do the same.
We don't do formulaic music where I live. We just go with our heart, go with our feelings and, above all, be honest with your fans. They're just as old as I am, many of them. And they can smell a rat when there's a rat somewhere.
Ryan: 'Oh What a Night' and 'Wrong Hands' in particular really seem to address turbulent times in America. How important was it to do that?
Ryder: Because of my age, I feel I've earned the right to say the things that I do say. And the issues that were brought up for the album were pretty much autobiographical. But there are important messages in there - like 'Wrong Hands.' There's nowhere to run.
I realized that my writing has to be 100% a reflection of my life experience. And, so, anything I do in the future is gonna come from the same breadbasket. And we're already writing for and creating the new album. I started while I was in Germany on tour. That's when the wheels went into motion. I began writing notes and putting into my recorder little melodies - in some cases whole verses. I think for my style of writing, you begin with words - they're the most important and most impactful.
A very wise man told me that less is better. If you can say in one word what some people take a verse or two to say, say it in one word. Just basic writing skills. There's no formula for it. It is whatever I feel.
Ryan: 'Fly' on the other hand takes such an optimistic tone. How important was it to strike that balance?
Ryder: When you're trying to chronicle a whole career- in three verses really is what it came down to - it's very important that you get the words right. Not that I thought this was going to be my last album… but you never know, right? So, I just wrote it keeping that in mind - that it may be my last visit with my fans. And that was a great impetus. It was a great driver. And I took full advantage of it.
And, from what I can tell, from the direction that I'm going with my current writing for the next album, I think we can expect better and more - and new and different. I don't like being stuck in the past. I don't care what my age is. That does not mean my brain isn't thinking of new things, things that have never been heard before - new sounds, new meanings, new interpretations.
It's fresh. And what this industry needs is freshness - new men and new women. Knowing that these people aren't going to succeed until they have the weight of the machine. Because if you look at the music industry today, it's like a barroom brawl. And, so, having to deal with that - and being on a record label that doesn't have as much push as we wish it would - everybody is putting 100% into the effort. And the disappointing part is that we're not yet getting recognized in America.
I would love very much to be thought of as a competent singer songwriter in my own country before my days are over.
Mitch Ryder poses backstage prior to a performance at the Arcada Theatre. Sunday, November 10, 2024 ... More in St. Charles, IL
Ryan: I read that you've hired a new manager and a European booking agent. You've watched the rise and fall of the major label system - and then the rise of the internet. Armed with that knowledge, how do you handle the business side now?
Ryder: Yeah, I never had that. I think twice, in my entire career, I had a fully signed, executed contract with a manager. And getting burned the first time by Mr. Crewe - for millions of dollars - kind of made me wary.
[I recently had a manager] telling me, 'Oh, we don't need a contract. A handshake is good.' And I'm going to myself, 'Talk about red alarms...' I thought I was being buried in my own blood. That was the first tip: 'We don't need a contract…' Yes, we do!
That machine I had assembled, I had to tear it down. And we're now starting over again. I looked at my entire catalog. I hired a copyright attorney. And we decided that this effort - the music on it - had to be fully protected under the copyright laws. What it did was it protected those things that were valuable. It protected the unprotected. And that's what I was looking for as the main thrust: First do the copyrights - and not worry about getting instant stream revenue from songs that weren't copyrighted. My view was, 'I want to know that I'm covered. I want to know that everything I've labored over is protected.'
Ryan: I noticed you don't currently have any American dates scheduled. When we talk about wanting to penetrate the U.S. market further, are you considering a U.S. tour?
Ryder: Well, we're hoping to.
You need to look at my history of live appearances. Basically, I was assigned to that group that goes beyond legendary. It's a group of people my age that were famous for one reason or another on the charts. And they're at an age where people with money that could make it happen? They look at the age of the artist unfortunately. It twists their mind and gives them a certain view of how talented that person is - which is really perverse.
When I listened to the radio - like they used to have back in the old days - you could listen to something. And if you liked it, you liked it. You weren't thinking to yourself as you listened to that music, 'I wonder how old he is? I wonder what color he is?' All of these questions that come afterwards. I accepted the music at face value. It didn't matter to me any of those other qualifications.
So, work has been sparse. People are not willing to take a chance on an 80 year old man drawing crowds - because the demographic is shrinking as we speak. I don't know how many of my fans may have died today or yesterday or will die in the future - but we're up there!
So, we're searching and searching for some kind of an entry point. But we can't do that alone. We can't do that without the help of many facets of the business. My domestic booking scene at the moment - because we are talking to people - is not looking very good. I'm still having to rely on the European tour for probably a third of my income for a year. And that's a shame. But it's also great because I'm very close to, and very much in touch with, my European audience. If you can imagine, almost 48 years of being on the continent every year, except for COVID.
That says something. You can't sustain a career that long with continued support unless people really do love you. And that's what we've discovered over all of these decades: [Europeans] really do treat me differently as an artist.
And they do love me in a very curious fashion - one that I'm not familiar with in America. Because we're pretty much a McDonald's over here. 'Eat it, throw it away. What's next? What's on the menu?' Over there, they seem to have some kind of an ability to, if you like something, say, 'I really like that. I wonder how that happened? I wonder why that happened? I want to know how long this is gonna continue. I love this artist very much. And I will continue to love this artist until he does something crazy to make me not love him anymore.'
It's just a different ballgame. And it's sad for me. Because I did want to come home so to speak. And it's not happened yet.
But, having said that, I created a really good piece of music. And I'm very, very proud of it.
