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Elle
2 days ago
- Entertainment
- Elle
How Munroe Bergdorf Tackles Difficult Conversations – And Doesn't Shy Away From The Hard Work
Speaking up for what you believe in can be terrifying. Even more so when you're up against a towering wall of anger, culture wars and rising hostility. It's easy to retreat into silent despair. But people don't make history by keeping their heads down. Few know this better than Munroe Bergdorf and Bethann Hardison: two trailblazers who have redefined representation in fashion. Hardison has spent decades fighting for diversity, from starting her own agency and co-founding the Black Girls Coalition, which advocated for greater inclusion of models of colour, in the 1980s to charting her journey in the award-winning 2023 documentary Invisible Beauty. Now, at 82, her impact can still be seen on runways, in fashion campaigns and across magazine covers. FIND OUT MORE ON THE ELLE COLLECTIVE Bergdorf, meanwhile, is still in the thick of it. She's already paved the way for trans people, fearlessly calling out inequality. But as trans rights come under increasing threat, the fight is far from over. In her new book Talk To Me, she urges all of us to get involved – to speak up even when paralysed by fear and to build bridges with family, friends and strangers alike. Because that's where understanding begins. Talking – to anyone, about anything – sparks something powerful. That's exactly what happened when Bergdorf and Hardison met and compared notes on activism, generational change and finding your voice. MUNROE BERGDORF: Hi Bethann, how are you doing? BETHANN HARDISON: I'm in the US, so I'm just waking up. I've got to travel today and I haven't even packed. MB: Where are you going? BH: Florence. I haven't been in many years – maybe decades. MB: Florence is so beautiful, though. BH: It is! Can I ask, how old are you? MB: I'm 38. BH: Going into your forties is the greatest thing ever. 40 is the new 28. MB: I think so, right? I'm 39 in September and there's a sense of panic that 40 is around the corner, but also a sense of calm that I've never had in my life before. I know myself. How was your 38? BH: I don't remember. I just bounced right along in life. But look at you – 38 and you've written two books! Here I am struggling to finish one. But I've really learnt more about myself while writing my memoir. MB: I mean, Talk To Me came out of that. My first book Transitional was a memoir, but I wanted this to be about lessons I've learnt. My career has been filled with difficult conversations – whether it's about racism in the UK or how it interacts with being trans. I wanted to write about not turning away from them and trying to find a way out of what you're unhappy with – exactly what you did [in your career]. BH: Well, by the late 2000s, the fashion industry had gotten to the point where models of colour were slowly disappearing. I had to speak out. I sent letters to the fashion councils of each city – New York, London, Milan and Paris – naming every designer who had erased models of colour. I had to believe in my heart that the industry wasn't racist – just ignorant. I started the conversation in 2007; by 2013, the letters were sent out. Immediately, there was a shift towards change. MB: Yeah. I became the first trans woman to model for L'Oreal [in 2017], but then I spoke about racism as a system that benefits all white people and was sacked. In the UK, we don't speak about racism in the same way that America does. BH: So, you became a model, felt the need to speak out, then spoke out so loud that they said, 'Goodbye!' MB: Yeah. There's a difference between active, violent racists and people who are ignorant. Both are wrong, but ignorance can be cured by education and discussion. When I'm faced with someone transphobic, I want to know why. Do they just hate trans people or do they have concerns that could be addressed by actually speaking to them? BH: Life is shifting, huh? MB: Yeah, in a concerning way. We've got to a point where people on either side of the political spectrum have demonised each other so belligerently that we no longer see each other as humans. But also, a lot of people feel like they have to know everything about a subject in order to speak about it, which stops us from having any discussions at all. BH: We used to have an expression: 'We go two steps forward, four steps back.' MB: It does feel like that. But it also feels like we're going forwards into fascism in a way we haven't seen before. We've never had such surveillance and a lack of privacy. BH: In your generation, you mean? MB: I think the surveillance is different. We've got CCTV, a tracking device on our person at every moment and we don't own our own data. Sometimes, when people say we're 'going back', we run the risk of saying we're going back to a time we recognise. But this is something we have no former experience of. BH: That's what I've been saying. We're going towards something we've never seen before. And we've never had these kinds of leaders before – people who are not politicians and want to run the country like it's a business. They don't consider others as equals and it becomes [an authoritarian regime]. MB: We're in a similar situation to America – like Donald Trump, Reform UK claim to fight for the working class when really all of the money is going to be kept within the 1%. BH: That's true. I said that a long time ago, too, when Donnie first ran and I started seeing that he could actually win. Once he won, you started seeing others [gain momentum around the world]. It's become a trend. Marine Le Pen in France, [Jair] Bolsonaro in Brazil. MB: For me, I see it in a simple sense: people will gravitate towards what they know and feel they are able to do. Racism is not natural for humans – tribalism is, maybe, out of survival, but to make it about race has been a conscious decision. Transphobia wasn't natural until the political establishment started pushing that agenda. Ten years ago, the public didn't care about trans people – in 2014, Laverne Cox was on the cover of Time. There was a lot more visibility, but that caused a backlash in the same way that Barack Obama being president gave way to Donald Trump. BH: Like I said, it's really interesting to see how you can find yourself sliding back… MB: I guess it's about trying to envision a world that hasn't existed yet. That's the advantage of the far right – these tech bros have envisioned a world that doesn't exist yet, but using similar patterns and processes of exploitation. The left needs to have a different version of how we can live in the world together because, right now, they're not offering an alternative. They're constantly reacting to what the right are doing. Those people aren't playing by the rule book, but we still are. BH: Good people always try to do the right thing, while the guy who's frightened to lose will do anything to survive. I'm [into] guerilla warfare; I like to sneak underneath the ground. I've been like that most of my life. I can make an impact on the fashion industry because I know who they are. But I'm at the stage of life where you think, 'I don't have the energy to create a new revolution.' It's like, 'Come on, guys! Do we really have to make you get up and get involved?' MB: Yeah. But I think everyone can get their hope from different places. For me, I draw a lot of inspiration from the 1980s HIV and Aids response, especially from trans and queer elders. The way that the trans community is talked about right now really reflects how gay men were spoken about in the 1980s, with such a sense of fear. I have to look back at how people managed to get through that time – not only from an organisation perspective, but also in terms of personal resilience and what people were doing to keep their minds and hope alive. There's a lot to learn from that. BH: It's interesting. The subjects might make you think things have changed, but the activity, the action of being an activist, hasn't. I don't consider myself an activist any more – I'm an advocate. But I can't take my foot off the clutch completely because I know it can shift back. In modelling, we've started hearing things about scouts going to refugee camps, giving people opportunities, then not taking care of them and they have to go back or become homeless. You have to pay attention to what's being embraced and how it can become abused. Things change, but you have to keep your eye on it. MB: Yeah. From the trans perspective, I think it's become so politicised that it's forced every trans person to become active, whether that's as a big cog in the machine or a smaller one within a community or workplace. We all understand that if we don't speak up at this moment, there's a real chance that not only our human rights could be diminished, but also our legal recognition could be erased. There's a sense of urgency I've never felt before. When I was younger, I thought of activism in the sense of people who were figureheads of the community – Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Marsha P Johnson, Harvey Milk. I think a lot of people are waiting for that person at this moment, but it doesn't just work like that. No one is going to come and save us. We need to be that voice. BH: I always say that the people who are really unique, who rise up out of the ashes, only come along every so often. They have to be greater than great – someone who has no fear of dying. They're rare. So the community needs to be strong to be able to support when that person comes. We have to be really tough and stick together. Don't let them break the line. MB: Exactly. I want people to know that it doesn't need to be that big. They can start conversations within their university, their workplace or even their home. It's about learning how to open difficult B: Exactly. I want people to know that it doesn't need to be that big. They can start conversations within their university, their workplace or even their home. It's about learning how to open difficult conversations and meet each other with respect, dignity and understanding. Not demean each other or view it as a competition, where someone has to win. We need to find compromise so we can progress in a meaningful way. 'Talk To Me' by Munroe Bergdorf (£16.99, Penguin) is out now. ELLE Collective is a new community of fashion, beauty and culture lovers. For access to exclusive content, events, inspiring advice from our Editors and industry experts, as well the opportunity to meet designers, thought-leaders and stylists, become a member today HERE.
NBC News
20-03-2025
- Politics
- NBC News
Georgetown University graduate student detained by immigration authorities
Federal immigration authorities have detained a Georgetown University graduate student from India who was teaching at the Washington, D.C., institution on a student visa, his attorney said Wednesday. The graduate student, Badar Khan Suri, was arrested by masked agents outside his Arlington, Virginia, home on Monday night, attorney Hassan Ahmad said. The agents identified themselves as being with the Department of Homeland Security and told him the government had revoked his visa, Ahmad said. The news was first reported by Politico. Ahmad called Suri's detention "beyond contemptible" and said that Suri has done nothing wrong. Georgetown University said it was not aware of any misconduct by Suri. The Department of Homeland Security and State Department did not respond to a request for comment, including about why Suri has been detained. Suri's detainment comes as the Trump administration is seeking to deport Columbia University graduate student Mahmoud Khalil, who took part in protests against Israel and the war in Gaza, by using a section of immigration law concerning "foreign policy consequences." "Seeing our government abduct and jail another innocent person is beyond contemptible,' Ahmad, Suri's lawyer, said. 'And if an accomplished scholar who focuses on conflict resolution is whom the government decides is bad for foreign policy, then perhaps the problem is with the government, not the scholar.' Suri is a postdoctoral fellow at the Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service, according to his profile on Georgetown University's website. His biography says he completed his Ph.D. in peace and conflict studies from the Nelson Mandela Center for Peace and Conflict Resolution at Jamia Millia Islamia in New Delhi in 2020. He wrote his thesis on 'Transitional Democracy, Divided Societies and Prospects for Peace: A Study of State Building in Afghanistan and Iraq.' Georgetown University said it has not been told why Suri was detained. 'We are not aware of him engaging in any illegal activity, and we have not received a reason for his detention. We support our community members' rights to free and open inquiry, deliberation and debate, even if the underlying ideas may be difficult, controversial or objectionable," the university said. "We expect the legal system to adjudicate this case fairly.' Suri has travelled extensively in the conflict zones in India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Palestinian areas, his university profile says. His Georgetown profile says he is an 'interdisciplinary scholar' whose areas of interest are religion, violence and peace, ethnic conflicts and peace processes in the Middle East and South Asia. The university says he is working on a project that looks into potential causes that hinder cooperation among religiously diverse societies and possibilities to overcome those hindrances. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has defended attempts to deport Khalil by saying that "no one has a right to a student visa." Khalil's deportation has been temporarily blocked by a judge. Last week, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested Leqaa Kordia, a Palestinian woman who took part in protests at Columbia and who overstayed her student visa, officials said.
