FIFA's Club World Cup architect on the tournament, backlash and its future

New York Times

2 days ago

LOS ANGELES — Inside a quaint courtyard area at the five-star Maybourne Hotel in Beverly HIlls, FIFA secretary general Mattias Grafström sips an espresso, then another, while he proudly discusses the inaugural 32-team Club World Cup.
Grafström, 45, was one of the chief architects behind the expanded format. For the former UEFA employee, who also previously served as chief of staff for FIFA president Gianni Infantino, having his name, and ideas, so closely linked to the Club World Cup is a badge of honor.
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'Having had the opportunity to work on this since it was an idea, to see it become a reality is something that feels very special, as a big football fan,'Grafström told The Athletic. 'I'm really excited for the tournament and to have it in the U.S., as well.'
Grafström joked that he doesn't do media very often, which isn't a surprise considering Infantino's larger-than-life persona when it comes to FIFA's sporting and political objectives. Grafström is mild-mannered but direct, and he was fairly open about the future of the Club World Cup and the immediate concerns for the first edition that kicks off on June 14.
While he is bullish about the expectations for the tournament this summer, Grafström is certainly aware of the criticism the competition has garnered. When FIFA makes a decision about a major tournament, or in this case, creates a new competition with novel qualification parameters, the common response from fans around the world is often angry and confrontational.
The Club World Cup has been deemed a cash grab — another perceived money-making scheme that will benefit FIFA and the richest clubs in the world. Grafström pushed back on that but acknowledged that the blowback has not gone unnoticed.
'We have a responsibility to organize it, to grow the game, but it's not a commercial venture as such,' he said. 'I think that clubs will benefit, their brands will become better known, as well. They can grow their fan bases. For me as a secretary general, it was a sporting competition and then the commercial is part of it, but it's not the driving force.'
The play-in match between LAFC of MLS and Liga MX's Club América ended on a high note. An extra-time thriller at a sold-out BMO Stadium in L.A. delivered precisely what FIFA had in mind. The Mexican side's fervent U.S.-based supporters meshed well with LAFC's own signature fanbase. Aesthetically, the match was a victory for FIFA. It was a successful proof of concept that showcased the growing fandom for the sport in some parts of the country. But LAFC advancing means that millions of stateside Club América fans won't buy tickets this summer.
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The Athletic reported on Wednesday that due to low sales, FIFA has reduced ticket prices for the tournament opener on June 14 between Lionel Messi's Inter Miami and Egypt's Al Ahly.
Grafström addressed a number of topics related to the future of the tournament, including where the 2029 edition may be held. The FootBiz newsletter reported on Wednesday that Australia was being considered, and that Spain, Portugal and Morocco (among the six cohosts for the 2030 men's World Cup), are also under consideration. While The Athletic can confirm the report, Grafström didn't close the door on a return to the U.S.
So what are the true expectations for the 2025 edition? Will U.S. immigration policies hurt attendance? Will the Club World Cup's short transfer window improve the competition? And what about Cristiano Ronaldo? We asked, and Grafström answered.
Questions and answers have been lightly edited for clarity.
TA: Take us through the process of creating a play-in match. How did that come to fruition?
Grafström: We discussed with the important stakeholders. And for me, sporting merit always has to be the driving force for any decision. And this is also how the Club World Cup has been created. You'll see all the teams qualified based on the continental competitions over the last four years, either being champion or via ranking. And so sporting merit should always be what drives us. When you have to make a decision about a team, you can always look at different ways. So we had to make a decision eventually, but to have the one game and involve those two teams made sense, rather than giving it to one or the other or another team. Actually, now it also creates some excitement for the tournament.
Do you see this play-in match as being something that could be part of the Club World Cup moving forward? Perhaps there's a four-team play-in tournament in the future.
I think for the future we are very open-minded to look at formats and so on that we will discuss with the clubs and with the confederations. But it's a good test. Let's see how it goes and then let's see who qualifies. And they will have a short run up for the tournament. I'm sure all the players who are involved in (the play-in game) want to be part of this unique adventure.
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Do you view this as a test to see how the U.S. market really takes in a Club World Cup?
I wouldn't see it as a test as such. FIFA has a responsibility to grow football around the world. I think since the World Cup 94, football has taken great steps with MLS and the U.S. national team and the Concacaf Nations League, as well. And so football is growing. And you can see now also with (Lionel) Messi and the impact he has on the American public that is more and more, I would say, excited about soccer. And you can watch a lot of soccer on TV, as well. So there's a big competition between the different leagues and also with other sports. Soccer is not the biggest sport in the U.S. yet, but we certainly have a big ambition together with this tournament.
And next year's national team World Cup and the Olympics are coming here, and there's a big chance that the Women's World Cup is coming here as well. The stadiums are state of the art. The North American market has evolved a lot in the last few years, so it's kind of creating this last piece of the pyramid from the continental level. The previous (Club World Cup) didn't have such an impact. We want to have an impact, and I think it will help grow the game in the US.
What metrics do you want to take away and apply to the 2026 World Cup?
Operationally it's a good test and attendance for sure. The stadium operations, working with the various stakeholders, be it the government, the police and the stadium officials. And I think it's meant to promote the game of soccer ahead of the World Cup. The World Cup is coming next year now. Together Concacaf and U.S. Soccer can start or continue building the legacy together. So I think having us here and present in the next months is something which will lay the foundation for many more great things in this country.
This transfer window that's going to occur before the Club World Cup has become a bit of a frenzy. What are your thoughts on that? Is that helping promote the competition?
Yes, definitely. When there are no games, what are people talking about every summer? Transfers. We want this tournament to be unique, but we wanted to give all the clubs this opportunity to open this exceptional (transfer) window. It's also a new test. We saw Trent Alexander-Arnold leaving Liverpool. His first official tournament will be in the Club World Cup. How exciting is that? It shows that Real Madrid, one of the biggest clubs in the world, is using it. So let's see how other clubs will use it. So we thought of it as an opportunity to create a buzz, as well. Definitely. But I think it is also a tool for the clubs to strengthen their squads if they want to.
Would you like to see Cristiano Ronaldo in this Club World Cup? Infantino certainly would, it appears.
I think any football fan would like to see Cristiano Ronaldo in this tournament, and what he has meant for the game is something remarkable. His career, both club and national team beating all these records. And he's so fit. So you know his focus is a great example for any youngster either a boy or a girl. I don't know what will happen. Up to him and potential clubs, but for sure it would be a fantastic addition.
I think it shows that we are talking about the excitement of and the uniqueness of this tournament. Giving clubs from around the world the opportunity to play each other in a competitive format for the first time in a month-long tournament is something you know, I think it's the first time, we'll see how it goes. But I believe strongly in the future of this competition.
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There is of course the reality of football's congested calendars. How is FIFA approaching that with the Club World Cup? This is going to be a big test for the sport and a big test for the players after a long season.
I think we have a great responsibility to listen and to all the stakeholders, to the players, first and foremost on this topic. And so we are having discussions with the player unions. We're also talking to players directly and to the clubs who contract players who also have a responsibility to play in this competition, the organized leagues and the confederations.
Arsène Wenger is leading up a specific task force on this topic. He has great experience as a coach and is now leading our global football development. I think it's important to also bring medical data on this, but we'll see how it goes this summer. I think one important element also is that players get necessary rest for a certain period both physically and mentally. The calendar is a jigsaw puzzle which is not easy to solve.
It's also then up to the clubs, the load of training and the matches. And you know some clubs when they finish their season they go overseas for commercial trips. I think it's a collective responsibility which we have to take, we have to listen and then see how we can take into account all the different opinions and find a balanced solution.
How does FIFA view some of the backlash about the Club World Cup by fans and pundits alike?
It's something where we can also do better to explain what we're doing with the revenues. And so in this competition, whatever we generate will cover the cost of the tournament. So, renting the stadiums, the operation, security and the staff costs, etc. And we'll pay prize money to the clubs, as well as solidarity, which will go to club football. So FIFA retains zero for itself.
Then why should football fans care about it?
We're going to have the opportunity to discover new teams from continents. We haven't had this opportunity before. I've had the great privilege to to travel around the world and see football. You see the passion and the emotion that this game gives to people in rural areas and urban areas.
In Argentina we've seen their national team fans, but their club fans from Boca Juniors, River Plate and at that it is something special. And we've seen how popular the tickets have been for Argentinian clubs and Brazilian clubs, as well. But even the uptake in Europe has been positive, as well. So one of the things that we will see is the passion for these teams. This will be something special and then the competitiveness, to actually have for the first time, a true club world champion.
In the end, these are athletes who want to compete for a title. And you know, (Erling) Haaland has never played in a World Cup or in a Euro. He will want to win this title. He would become a world champion. We'll have to see the final squad lists but we'll have players from over 80 countries. That's 80 different nationalities who have the possibility to play in this tournament. This is a true Club World Cup. The other one was more like a super cup and it never took off.
FIFA has been public about working with the Trump administration in making sure that fans can access the country and attend these upcoming tournaments. Where does that stand currently? How can you make sure that U.S. immigration policies are not a deterrent?
Well, I think by communicating about it and (Infantino) said that all fans are welcome here. I think proactively working with the administration and the various agencies is a responsibility that we have. And looking at next year's World Cup, we want fans to feel welcome. And so the discussion we have been having with the clubs also is to smoothen the process as much as we can and work together with the relevant authorities to make sure it's a positive experience. And that's why I'm sure we will see a lot of fans coming from around the world, from all of these clubs and to the U.S. to enjoy the FIFA Club World Cup.
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Are there plans for the Club World Cup to come back to the United States? Or is there a plan to link it with a country that's going to host the next men's World Cup?
I believe strongly in the future of this competition. The future is bright. Now we're focusing on this edition. And the only thing that we have fixed is the ranking system for 2029 and that the next tournament will be in 2029.
How was it fixed?
So the criteria which we use to create the ranking for the 2025 edition, we will use the same one for 2029. And so the number of points you get for every game, for example. The European model, which was different for 2025, is now in line with the other confederations because they've had their own coefficient for this edition. And so this is all aligned. We will continue discussing with the clubs and the confederations for the 2029 edition.
Is there a host country already designated for 2029? Will confederations or countries bid to host the Club World Cup in the future?
No host yet. We want to see how this tournament goes. And we're open-minded about the future where it can be played in 2029. I think the window which exists is the right one in June. After the international window in June. I think we still have to decide on how we will designate it, but I'm sure many countries will be willing to host it. It could be in South America. It could be in Africa. It could be in Asia. It could be in Europe or it could come back here, as well.
The men's World Cup final is at MetLife Stadium in New York/New Jersey. That's the site of the Club World Cup final. Is that a coincidence?
New York is the capital of the world. You have over 200 nationalities in New York. And I would say that it's a good test to have the Club World Cup final in New York/New Jersey in a beautiful stadium, a big stadium. I think it's probably not a coincidence, but also the majority of the Club World Cup is on the East Coast and it's the biggest stadium.
So it's a fitting destination for a final game. And I think we'll see a rocking MetLife Stadium on the 13th of July. It will enable us to test the facilities and make sure that next year's final will be something unique. This is something that the U.S. hasn't experienced yet, having all of these clubs playing and having the opportunity to become the first true FIFA Club World Cup champion. A world champion is something that we love about football.