Maryland Gov. Wes Moore's outreach to young men draws praise
BALTIMORE - Young men drifted away from the Democratic Party in the 2024 election, but some party leaders see Maryland Gov. Wes Moore as a model for how to bring them back.
Moore, 46, an Army veteran and first-term governor, has asked his administration to find ways to better support young men and boys - groups he says are falling behind in education, economic mobility and mental health.
"For him, it's not a show," said Young Democrats of America President Quentin Wathum-Ocama. He's "articulating a vision that shows young men … here's an opportunity for you to be a strong man, to be somebody who cares about their family, but also cares about community."
Moore said Democrats need to stop treating young men as a voting bloc to recapture, and start treating them as people who need help. He cites his administration's focus on reducing incarceration and economic insecurity as part of that focus.
"Once you're losing people in elections, that's not because you just started losing them," Moore said in an interview with The Baltimore Sun. "It's because you lost them a long time ago."
Nationally, Democrats have begun exploring similar outreach. California Gov. Gavin Newsom launched a podcast, Utah Gov. Spencer Cox created a task force focused on the well-being of boys and men, and New York Democrats appear to have nominated 33-year-old Zohran Mamdani for New York City mayor, who ran a heavily social-media-based campaign. Multiple political analysts and Democratic leaders told The Sun that Moore's approach comes across as authentic, with policy ideas to back him up.
But Republicans in Maryland question whether Moore's rhetoric has translated into measurable results.
Democrats losing ground with young men
Support for Democrats among young men fell sharply in 2024. Just 42% of men aged 18 to 29 voted Democratic, down from 56% in 2020, according to a Tufts University CIRCLE analysis.
Political researcher John Della Volpe, who co-founded the "Speaking with American Men Project," says many young men see Democrats as weak and out of touch. He attributes Donald Trump's gains among this group more to personality than policy.
Young men largely feel betrayed by institutions, Della Volpe said. That feeling started during the pandemic and has been coupled with economic anxiety.
"It is deeply frustrating that so many young men still feel the same thing to this day," Moore said.
A new model?
In his February State of the State address, Moore highlighted rising incarceration and suicide rates among young men, along with declining college enrollment and workforce participation. He asked state agencies to propose targeted solutions - such as promoting entrepreneurship, homeownership and job reintegration after prison.
These efforts build on earlier initiatives like mentorship programs, funding for county summer programs, a paid service year for high school graduates and mass pardons for low-level cannabis offenses.
"It's not an election strategy for us," Moore said. "It's something we believe in."
Sen. Cory McCray, a Baltimore Democrat, praised Moore's job training efforts as a way to give young men "exposure and access" to role models and tools for success.
But Republicans remain skeptical.
"A lot of things … with this administration, sounded real good," said Senate Minority Whip Justin Ready. But he said he hasn't seen "a lot of action" or concrete results.
Ready said many of the policies Moore touts don't specifically target young men. Senate Minority Leader Steve Hershey added that Moore's "priorities seem to shift with political headlines," and said Marylanders deserve consistent, comprehensive leadership.
Moore also faced pushback from Democrats who have not been universally supportive of some of the governor's recent actions, including policies they say could impact young men in the state. The governor recently vetoed a bill that would have created a commission to study reparations for descendants of enslaved people. Moore said he wanted policies that deliver results - not "another study."
Is it working?
Moore has positioned himself as a results-oriented leader, often distancing himself from what he calls "needless debate," which has helped people see him as a doer and addresses a common desire among younger people to change the status quo, Washington College associate professor Flavio Hickel said. In a speech in South Carolina this year, Moore called on his party to stop being the party of "no and slow."
About 53% of 18- to 34-year-olds and 53% of men in Maryland approve of the job he's doing, according to a March Gonzales Poll, the most recent one available.
Moore's life story - which he describes as growing up in an over-policed neighborhood, serving in the military, leading an anti-poverty organization and becoming Maryland's first Black governor - has also become part of his messaging pitch to young men.
"We hold him up as an icon of what can be done, showing these young men that there is a place in our coalition for them," said Ilyse Hogue, co-founder of the American Men Project.
A party leader in a traditional early primary state agrees. "He worked very hard for everything that he got," said New Hampshire Democratic Party Chair Raymond Buckley. "I think that connects with a lot of young folks that are going through some pretty anxious times."
2028 and beyond
Although Moore told The Sun he is not running for president in 2028, he's held meetings with former Biden and Obama campaign advisers in South Carolina - a key primary state - and his name has appeared in early polls of potential Democratic contenders.
Nationally, Democrats are testing new approaches to reach young men online. The party recently launched a podcast and has eased its social media tone. But Wathum-Ocama, the Young Democrats of America president, said Democrats need more than a "magic bullet." He described a party that needs authenticity.
Ruben Amaya, president of the Young Democrats of Maryland and the third vice chair of the state party, said including young people in party messaging is critical. At age 21, Moore nominated him for state party leadership. Amaya, who's now 24, took the nomination as a symbol that Moore values young voices.
"Our jobs are not to be pundits," Moore said about fellow politicians. "Your job is to actually care about the work, your job is to actually care about the people that you're hoping to serve."
Copyright (C) 2025, Tribune Content Agency, LLC. Portions copyrighted by the respective providers.
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The Red State Where Republicans Aren't Afraid of Trump
The Atlantic Daily, a newsletter that guides you through the biggest stories of the day, helps you discover new ideas, and recommends the best in culture. Sign up for it here. Donald Trump's least favorite House Republican, Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky, likes to do an exaggerated impression of the president. As he recounted a long-ago phone call from Trump before a crowd of supporters in his district, Massie dropped the register of his voice to an octave resembling Yogi Bear's. 'It started out with: I'm more libertarian than you are,' Massie said. 'And it ended with: Well, you're going to get a primary if you vote for this.' The eruption that followed created a scene that you're unlikely to see anywhere else in America these days: a roomful of Republicans laughing at Trump's expense. The 54-year-old has been frustrating Trump since the beginning of the president's first term. The two are now fighting over the extent of Trump's war powers—Massie called the air strikes on Iran unconstitutional—and the president's 'big, beautiful bill,' which the seventh-term lawmaker opposed, one of just two House Republicans to do so. Massie is frequently a lone critic of the president in the 220-member House GOP caucus. But he's not such a solitary voice in the Kentucky delegation. The Bluegrass State backed Trump by 30.5 percentage points last year—one of his largest margins in the country. Nationwide, Republicans are more united around Trump than they've ever been. Yet Kentucky has become a rare hotbed of GOP resistance to the president's agenda. [Read: Mitch McConnell and the president he calls 'despicable'] Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, an early Trump presidential rival in 2016, is an ideological ally of Massie's; he's criticized the president's tariffs, his expansion of executive authority, and the deficit-busting legislation that contains the bulk of Trump's economic agenda. Then there's the state's senior senator, Mitch McConnell. Liberated from his commitments as Republican leader, the soon-to-retire McConnell has denounced Trump's Ukraine policy and his tariffs. He voted against more of the president's Cabinet nominees—Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary; Robert Kennedy Jr., the health secretary; and Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence—than any other GOP senator. McConnell, Paul, and Massie occasionally oppose Trump from different sides. But together they form a powerful bloc among the seven Republicans in Kentucky's eight-man congressional delegation, and their stands against the president are angering many of Trump's diehard supporters in the state, who feel oddly unrepresented by the lawmakers they've sent to Washington. 'We voted for Trump to straighten some things out,' Devon Cain, a 77-year-old retiree, told me outside a farm-supply store in Winchester, a small town outside of Lexington. 'Why a Republican would want to buck him, I don't know.' Mark Wallingford, a physician in rural Mason County, is even more livid. 'I will not vote for Thomas Massie. And if he is unopposed, I just wouldn't vote,' he told me after a local GOP meeting. The clashes between Trump and the Kentucky trio are a sensitive topic among state GOP officials, many of whom are hesitant to take sides against either the popular president or their influential local leaders. 'I'm MAGA all the way, and I'm Massie all the way,' Ken Moellman Sr., a retiree and one of Massie's constituents in northern Kentucky, told me. He compared the Trump-Massie relationship to a marriage. 'Sometimes you disagree, but when you disagree, that doesn't mean you get divorced.' The twice-divorced president seems to be pining for a breakup, however. He has repeatedly called for Massie's defeat in a primary—'GET THIS 'BUM' OUT OF OFFICE, ASAP!!!' Trump posted on Monday—and two of his top allies have formed a Kentucky political action committee to recruit a GOP challenger in Massie's district. The group began running a 30-second ad last week urging voters to 'fire Thomas Massie.' Although Massie has aggressively raised money off the president's attacks, he professes to not care about the threat to his seat. Trump, Massie likes to boast, earned fewer votes in Kentucky's Fourth Congressional District than he did. 'I'm not worried about losing,' he told me last month in the Capitol. To outsiders, Kentucky's politics can be hard to grasp. In some respects, the state is no different than any other Republican stronghold. Outside of the urban centers of Louisville and Lexington, Kentucky is largely rural and conservative. The state has not backed a Democrat for president or for the U.S. Senate since the 1990s. All but one of Kentucky's six House members are Republican, as are the majorities in both chambers of its legislature. But even as the state has gone decisively for Trump the past three elections, it has twice elected a Democratic governor, Andy Beshear. And the pair of Republicans that voters have sent to the Senate, McConnell and Paul, are as different from one another as any two senators from the same party in the country. McConnell is the institutionalist: a Reaganite and a Kentucky power broker who is now one of the last members of the GOP's old guard still serving in Congress. Paul arrived in Washington as part of the Tea Party wave of 2010, having upset a McConnell-backed front-runner in the primary by campaigning as a spending hawk. Massie won election to the House two years later on the Tea Party banner. 'We've always been a bit all over the place in the candidates that we support,' Rick VanMeter, a strategist from Kentucky who has worked for several Republicans in the state, told me. Although McConnell and Paul vote with Trump more often than they cross him, the president lacks a loyalist in the state's most powerful offices. That will probably change after next year's election to fill McConnell's seat, which Republicans will be heavily favored to win. The two leading candidates, Representative Andy Barr and Kentucky's former attorney general Daniel Cameron, are each stressing their support for Trump's agenda. Another contender, Nate Morris—who has ties to Vice President J. D. Vance and Donald Trump Jr.—joined the race this week. None of them is likely to highlight their connection to McConnell, whose popularity among Kentucky Republicans has plummeted in the years since he steered Trump's tax cuts and the president's three Supreme Court nominees through the Senate. (In fact, McConnell has been America's least popular senator for more than four years, according to one metric.) McConnell blamed Trump for the Capitol riot on January 6 (although he voted to acquit him in the Senate's impeachment trial), and he endorsed Trump only reluctantly last year. Multiple falls and freezing spells have slowed the 83-year-old, contributing to his decision not to seek an eighth Senate term in 2026. As I traveled around Kentucky last week, a few Republicans hailed McConnell's past leadership and the billions in funding that he's secured for the state. But hardly anyone I spoke with was sad to see him go. 'I can't stand him. He's a traitor,' Don Reilly, a Trump backer and former president of the Boone County Business Association in northern Kentucky, told me. [Read: Congressional Republicans vs. reality] The conflict among Republicans has put Kentucky Democrats in the awkward position of rooting for Paul, Massie, and McConnell to hold the line against Trump, with the hope that their opposition could force him to retreat on tariffs or sink the president's megabill. Last week I found a group of Democrats demonstrating outside of McConnell's office, urging him to reject the GOP legislation that would slash Medicaid while extending Trump's first-term tax cuts and boosting spending on immigration enforcement and the Pentagon. They were unimpressed by McConnell's more recent criticism of Trump. 'He gets credit for that, but it's too little, too late,' Leah Netherland, a 69-year-old retiree, told me. 'He is in large part responsible for Trump.' Beshear, whose success in a deep-red state has attracted national notice, seems to be watching the GOP infighting with some bemusement. 'If Senator Paul, Senator McConnell, and I all say that tariffs are a bad idea, it's because they're a really bad idea,' the governor told me after a Juneteenth event in Lexington. Yet Beshear can only cheer them on so much. None of the Republicans battling Trump are centrists; Paul and Massie are opposing the president's bill because it doesn't cut spending deeply enough. 'The bill needs to die, but not for the reasons they're talking about,' Beshear said. The louder voices of discontent in Kentucky, however, are coming from Trump's base, which is heeding the president's call to ramp up pressure on his Republican critics. With McConnell retiring and Paul not up for reelection until 2028, the immediate target is Massie. Trump's backers in Washington and Kentucky are casting about for a serious challenger in Massie's district, and a few state legislators are considering the race, Republicans in the state told me. (One conservative, Niki Lee Ethington, a nurse and former parole officer, has launched a campaign, but she is not well known throughout the district.) Massie's base in northern Kentucky has a large libertarian contingent, and since his first reelection in 2014, he's never won fewer than 75 percent of votes in a primary. But a well-funded, Trump-backed campaign, should one emerge, would be something else entirely. In addition to motivating the president's frustrated base, a challenger could activate local Republicans who believe Massie's refusal to fight for the district's share of federal spending has hurt its bid for needed infrastructure projects. 'They're kind of over Massie's schtick,' VanMeter, the GOP strategist, told me. Gallatin County, which sits along the Ohio River about an hour's drive south of Cincinnati, is the second-smallest of Kentucky's 120 counties. It's one of 21 counties in Massie's congressional district, which stretches nearly 200 miles from the outskirts of Louisville to the state's eastern border. Last week, the quarterly meeting of Gallatin's Republican Party drew just eight attendees, who sat around folding tables at the public library in Warsaw, the county seat. The main order of business was a vote on whether to spend some of the roughly $1,800 that the committee had in its campaign account—a number nearly equivalent to Warsaw's population—on new signage for the party to display at festivals, county fairs, and other events. The bickering between Trump and Kentucky's GOP rebels did not come up, and perhaps that was for the best. Like many party organizations in the district, Gallatin's Republicans are divided over the Trump-Massie feud. The committee's vice chair, Wayne Rassman, told me he had grown frustrated with Massie's opposition to the president. 'He's not listening to the people in his district,' Rassman told me. 'I don't know what made him go off the deep end.' The party treasurer, Donna Terry, said that she used to be for Massie but no longer is. 'I'm a little fed up,' she told me. Both of them said they would probably back a primary challenger next year. The chair of Gallatin's GOP is Jim Kinman, a 51-year-old delivery specialist. He accepted the post reluctantly, explaining to me that the state party had told the county committee that it would be disbanded if it didn't elect a slate of officers. When I caught up with Kinman after the meeting, he lowered his voice before wading into the Trump-Massie fracas. He said that he had never gotten into the 'cultish' dynamic surrounding Trump, whom he did not support in 2016. 'Generally, he's done a good job,' Kinman said of the president. But, he added, 'when the rubber meets the road, I'm going to be with Thomas.' Kinman told me that his loyalty to Massie has caused consternation among his fellow Republicans in the area, but he wasn't budging. 'Thomas legitimately is the only person I trust more than myself,' Kinman said. Whereas many Kentucky Republicans want their representatives to back Trump unconditionally, Kinman said he admired Massie's adherence to his longtime principles. He compared him favorably to Paul, who is often aligned with Massie but has been a bit more open to compromise during the Trump era. (Kinman had nothing nice to say about McConnell, referring to him both as 'a snake' and 'the turtle.') 'We got plenty of people that are for rent,' Kinman said of politicians who too easily trade away their values. 'I'm glad that Thomas is not.' Massie was about to go bowling last weekend when Trump bombed Iran. With the House on recess, he was back in his district for an event with the Northern Kentucky Young Republicans, a group filled with his acolytes. The gathering was a relaxed affair—Massie nursed a Michelob Ultra and wore an untucked turquoise polo shirt—and represented a small show of force for his standing in the area. The organization has hosted other prominent Kentucky Republicans, including each of the major potential GOP contenders to replace McConnell in the Senate. But its president, T. J. Roberts, told me that Massie's event was the best attended. At 27, Roberts is the second-youngest state legislator in Kentucky history and one of several conservatives known as 'Massie's Nasties' for their loyalty to the seven-term representative—and for their occasional hardball campaign tactics. Like many at the bowling alley on Saturday night, Roberts said that he admires Massie and Trump with equal fervor. He told me that he didn't take the president's demand for a primary challenge seriously. 'President Trump is using this as a pressure technique against other members who may sway,' Roberts told me. 'It's a smart move. If I were in his shoes, I'd do the same thing.' As for Massie, Roberts said: 'He's inoculated from primaries.' Yet without impugning Trump, Roberts made sure to remind the crowd of around 80 people of Massie's MAGA credentials. 'There is no one who represents MAGA in Congress better than Thomas Massie,' Roberts said. 'He was MAGA before MAGA was a thing.' Massie began his speech by reminding the crowd of his overall support for Trump, but he tackled their disagreements head on, starting with the impending confrontation with Iran. Touting the resolution that he had introduced to block the president from ordering a unilateral military attack, Massie said, 'I have his respect, and he has mine, but he cannot engage us in a war without a vote of Congress.' The crowd applauded his stance. But unbeknownst to Massie, his argument was all but moot: Soon after he left the stage, Trump announced that U.S. warplanes had already struck Iran's nuclear sites. Like Trump, Massie is a storyteller who revels in sharing behind-the-scenes anecdotes that many politicians prefer either to keep private or to divulge without their names attached. Sass is a core part of his image, both in person and on social media, where he frequently uses the tagline #sassywithmassie. (Earlier this week when Vance wondered whether other vice presidents experienced 'as much excitement' as he has, Massie responded on X: 'Ask Mike Pence about his last month,' referring to January 6.) [Read: Republicans still can't say no to Trump] During his speech, Massie argued that Trump respected him 'because he knows I'm not a yes man' while also slyly mocking the president in ways that few Republicans dare to do in public. Massie described a House Republican conference meeting last month during which Trump droned on about him for so long that he had assumed the president was talking about someone else. At one point, Trump compared Massie with Paul. 'They're both from Kentucky, you can never get them to vote for anything, and they basically have the same hair,' Trump explained, according to Massie. 'Actually,' the president quickly added, 'I like Massie's hair better.' As the crowd at the bowling alley laughed, Massie quipped, 'Take the wins where you can get them!' Despite Massie's outward confidence about the prospect of a Trump-backed primary challenge, he has made some small moves that suggest a desire to declare a truce. He agreed to withdraw his war-powers resolution after Trump announced a cease-fire between Israel and Iran, at least temporarily abandoning the Democrats who planned to push it forward anyway. And although Massie voted against Trump's megabill when it passed the House last month, he insisted that he was open to supporting its final passage if the Senate makes changes to his liking. 'I'm a gettable vote!' he told me after his speech. (He explained his thinking this way to his supporters: 'I'll vote for a crap sandwich. I just want a pickle and two slices of bread.') I posed to Massie the question that had brought me to Kentucky in the first place: Why does a state that voted so strongly for Trump have such a disproportionate share of the president's GOP critics in high office? He replied by invoking Kentucky's divided status in the Civil War. 'We were a border state,' Massie said. 'We are independent in Kentucky, and I don't think you can take our vote for granted, whether it's representatives or constituents.' The coming months will test if that long-ago legacy still applies. Kentucky has clearly picked a side in the modern political wars, and its Republican voters must decide whether to force their remaining elected holdouts to join them. *Lead image credit: Illustration by Allison Zaucha / The Atlantic. Sources: Tom Williams / CQ-Roll Call, Inc / Getty; Kevin Carter / Getty; Chris Kleponis / CNP / Bloomberg / Getty; Sepia Times / Getty Article originally published at The Atlantic


CBS News
an hour ago
- CBS News
Sen. Mark Warner says Trump's tax bill will be a "political albatross" for Republicans
Washington — Sen. Mark Warner, a Virginia Democrat, said Sunday that President Trump's tax bill that's nearing a final vote in the Senate will be a "political albatross" for Republicans, citing the cuts to social safety nets and its projected effect on the national debt. "I think many of my Republican friends know they're walking the plank on this, and we'll see if those who've expressed quiet consternation will actually have the courage of their conviction," Warner said on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan." The Senate is working through the weekend as the GOP makes a push to pass the legislation, known as the "big, beautiful bill," ahead of a July 4 deadline to get the bill to the president's desk. The House narrowly approved the bill last month, but the Senate has been putting its imprint on the massive package that extends Mr. Trump's 2017 tax cuts and would fund border security, defense and energy production priorities, costs which are offset in part by cuts to healthcare and nutrition programs. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the legislation would increase the deficit by nearly $3.3 trillion over the next decade. In addition to the increase to the national debt, Warner criticized the bill for the toll he warned it would take on rural hospitals, access to health insurance, food assistance and clean energy jobs. The Senate is expected to begin a marathon overnight session Sunday as the bill nears final passage. It would then return to the House for signoff on the upper chamber's changes, before it can go to the president's desk for his signature. Senate Republicans are working to pass the legislation under the budget reconciliation process, which allows the party in the majority to move ahead without support from across the aisle. The process means Senate Democrats have few mechanisms to combat the bill, which they largely oppose, apart from delaying a vote. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer forced the bill to be read on the floor in its entirety late Saturday, which has pushed back debate on the bill by more than 12 hours. When asked why Democrats are expected to widely oppose the bill when there are provisions within it that they may see as favorable, such as an expansion of the Child Tax Credit and a provision limiting taxes on tips, Warner said "you can put as much lipstick on this pig as you want." The Virginia Democrat suggested that the bill could even lose support from Republicans, saying "it's not over until it's over." He added that while Mr. Trump "has been able to hold his party in line in an unprecedented manner," the bill "will come back and bite them." All but two Republicans voted to advance the measure Saturday in a key test vote. But the GOP win came after hours of hand-wringing over whether a handful of Republicans would prevent the legislation from moving forward. The vote remained open for more than three hours Saturday night as holdouts met with Senate GOP leaders to seek assurances on the bill. And Vice President JD Vance was on hand to break a possible tie vote, though his vote ultimately wasn't needed. He joined a meeting with GOP holdouts in the majority leader's office Saturday night. Vance's presence at the Capitol came as the White House put pressure on Republicans in Congress to get the legislation to the president's desk. In a Truth Social post Saturday night, Mr. Trump indicated he would work to support primary challenges to one of the bill's opponents, GOP Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who is up for reelection in 2026. GOP Rep. Michael McCaul of Texas, who also appeared Sunday on "Face the Nation," said Republicans in the House "know their jobs are at risk" if they oppose the measure, citing pressure from the president and the American people themselves. He said "our base back home will not reelect us to office if we vote no on this." "Everyone in the House, they know the peril they're in if they vote no on this thing," McCaul said. The Texas Republicans said he plans to support the measure when it returns to the House due to its funding for border security and defense, along with the tax cut extensions. And he predicted that it will see support even among fiscal hawks who have expressed opposition to the legislation. "At the end of the day, I think they're going to vote for it," McCaul said.


CBS News
an hour ago
- CBS News
Transcript: Sen. Mark Warner on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," June 29, 2025
The following is the transcript of an interview with Sen. Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia, that will air on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on June 29, 2025. MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin today with Virginia Democrat Mark Warner. He is the Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Good morning. SEN. MARK WARNER: Good morning. MARGARET BRENNAN: You've been, probably, sleep-deprived with all of what is happening, but I want to ask you about what's going on in Capitol Hill. Republicans are going to pass this along party lines. It's expected, right? But, it includes things in here that Democrats, including you, had supported, right? The no taxes on tips provision, more money for Border Patrol, expansion of the Child Care Tax Credit upwards of $2,000. Why vote against it, when there are popular provisions within it, and doesn't that just allow the President to say, oh, you want to raise taxes? SEN. WARNER: You can put as much lipstick on this pig as you want. This will- this will be a political albatross for the Republicans -- MARGARET BRENNAN: -- Why? -- SEN. WARNER: -- because it takes 16 million Americans off of health care coverage with cuts to Medicaid, and cuts to the Obamacare marketplace. That will move us, as a nation, back to the same percentage of uninsured we had before- before Obamacare. And, it's not like these people are not going to get sick. They're going to show up at the emergency room. Rural hospitals are going to shut down. That has been evidenced across the nation. It also goes after food assistance. So we are really in such a place that we're cutting, in my state, a couple hundred thousand people off of school lunches, school breakfasts. They even cut food banks. It's- it's cruel. They have also ended up, at the end of the day, cutting 20,000-plus clean energy jobs. And for what? This was to make sure that the highest, most wealthy Americans can get an extra tax-break. And, as you just saw on your chyron, there, it adds $4.5 trillion to the debt. I think many of my Republican friends know they're walking the plank on this, and we'll see if those who've expressed quiet consternation will actually have the courage of their convictions. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, some of the Republicans are arguing, well, we have to deal with these entitlements and the work requirements and things that may lead to some of the lack of qualifications you talk about. They're not that burdensome. It's volunteer work or part-time work. So, are you overstating it? SEN. WARNER: No. It's 16 million Americans off of health care. You know, Medicaid cuts- these numbers, they're not my numbers. They're all independent sources. And what- the thing that I don't think people have realized is people say, well, Medicaid, I'm not poor. I, maybe, buy my health insurance through the marketplace. Your rates will go up $800 or $900 a month. And that will trickle through the whole rest of the healthcare market, because if you suddenly take people out of the system, they show up at the emergency room in uncompensated care. The only way those costs get passed on, is higher health insurance to all of us who have traditional coverage. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, if this is so against their own interest, why haven't you been able to peel more Republicans away? SEN. WARNER: Well, I think we'll see. Even as recently as just an hour ago, some of the special Medicaid provisions for certain states, I think, were disallowed because of the so-called Byrd Rule. It's not over until it's over. I will give you- I will grant that President Trump has been able to hold his party in line in an unprecedented manner. At the other end, this bill will come back and bite them. This is going to do so much damage in terms of, not only health care, food assistance, you know, the whole notion that we are moving towards cleaner energy jobs, all on the chopping block, adding $4 trillion to the debt. Tell me, at the end of the day, how that is good for America? I don't think you can make the case. MARGARET BRENNAN: Education is another front in this fight with the President. And I want to ask you about what's happening in Virginia. We saw the University of Virginia's President, James Ryan, resign on Friday. This was extraordinary. This was a pressure campaign from the Trump administration over diversity, or so-called DEI programs. In the letter, and I want to read this, Ryan wrote that if he had tried to fight back, hundreds of employees would lose jobs, researchers would lose funding, and hundreds of students could lose financial aid or have their visas withheld. But, he resigned to avoid this. Is that now the playbook for other university presidents: walk away, don't have the fight? SEN. WARNER: This is the most outrageous action, I think, this crowd has taken on education. We have great public universities in Virginia. We have a very strong governance system, where we have an independent board of visitors appointed by the Governor. Jim Ryan had done a very good job; just completed a major capital campaign. For him to be threatened, and, literally, there was indication that they received the letter that if he didn't resign on a day last week, by five o'clock, all these cuts would take place. -- MARGARET BRENNAN: -- It was that explicit? -- SEN. WARNER: -- It was that explicit. -- MARGARET BRENNAN: This is- but that sounds personal. That doesn't sound specific to policy or changes. Like, how does the next university president get in line and get the money? SEN. WARNER: You're shocked it's coming- personal attacks are coming out of this administration? This is, you know- I thought the Republicans were about states' rights. I thought the Republicans were about, let's transfer more power in the States. This federal D.O.E. and Department of Justice should get their nose out of University of Virginia. They are doing damage to our flagship university. And if they can do it here, they'll do it elsewhere. At the end of the day, I understand that, with so many things at stake, that the idea, and I think Jim Ryan laid it out, that he was going to make his personal- personal job more important than these cuts. But, boy, that shouldn't have been the choice. MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and we know that the universe that the administration is looking at more universities, and the assistant A.G., Harmeet Dhillon, indicated that publicly, and University of California is next to the crosshairs, so we're going to be watching that carefully -- SEN. WARNER: They all want to make them like Harvard. They want to take on public universities, the way they have now taken on the Ivys. End of the day, this is going to hurt our universities, chase away what world-class talent. And, frankly, if we don't have some level of academic freedom, then what kind of country are we? MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about your oversight role on intelligence. You were briefed on what's going on with Iran. You said you fear the American people are being given a false sense of comfort with these declarations of mission accomplished. Do you believe U.S. intelligence knows how much of a capability Iran maintains now? SEN. WARNER: I don't think we have final assessments. Let me- first of all, we don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Secondly, the military performed an extraordinary mission, and I think they affected a great deal of damage to Iran's facilities. But, the idea that the President of the United States, with no data, two hours after the strike, is suddenly hitting the standard of saying total obliteration. That leads us to think that they are out of the game, and we don't know that yet. And, let's just be clear, you can actually set back the major program where they were trying to create, potentially, and there'd been no decision made by the Ayatollah to actually move towards weaponization, but where they could have a weaponized system with a dozen-plus missiles that are nuclear warned. But what they don't know is they didn't, and this was appropriate, I'm not criticizing the administration; they didn't go after the enriched uranium that was Isfahan, at that base, because it's buried so deeply -- MARGARET BRENNAN: -- They just hit it with Tomahawks, not the bunker-busters -- SEN. WARNER: -- So, the fact that they can have, still, enriched uranium, they may have some ability to still cascade that- means they could still move forward on something, that might be not delivered by a missile, but a bomb in a trunk of a car. And all I don't want is the American people, or, for that matter, our allies in the region, to rely on a term that was set by the President before he had any facts. MARGARET BRENNAN: Point taken there on the specifics of the rudimentary bomb. But, coming back to what you just said, there had been no decision by the Supreme Leader to make a weapon. Secretary of State Rubio, on this program, last Sunday, told me it was irrelevant, the answer to that question, because Iran had everything it needed to make and build a weapon. So, based on what you know, was there an emergency? Was there a reason the US had to act in the moment it did? SEN. WARNER: We were on the verge of what could have been a much greater war, in terms of Iran and Israel spreading to the whole region. Was there the imminent emergency that would trigger? Because lots of presidents have looked at taking this action, I think that's- that's very debatable. If, at the end of the day, we end up where this peace holds, and Iran doesn't strike back, Hallelujah. But, what we don't know, for example, is Iran going to try to hit us on cyber with this administration cutting, literally, half of our cyber-security personnel in this country? So, I just want to make sure that we- we do this in a measured way. The military did great. We have set them back. But let's not pretend that they don't have any capabilities. And the only way we can get resolution on that, Margaret, and Secretary Rubio acknowledged this in the brief, is if we have boots on the ground with inspectors. That means we've got to go to diplomacy. If America and Iran start negotiating this week, face-to-face, that would be good. MARGARET BRENNAN: And we were- we will talk to the man who directs those boots on the grounds, potentially, the inspectors later on in the program from the IAEA. Thank you very much, Senator. We're going to have to leave it there. We'll be back in a moment.