John Cena vs. Randy Orton: The brutal, iconic history of WWE Backlash's decades-long rivalry
The word "generational" gets used so often in wrestling commentary that it sometimes feels more like an annoying catchphrase than a genuine accolade. But is there any better way to describe the contribution these two have made to the modern WWE product? At the very least they're amongst the top three stars of the early Millennium era.
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But what about when they come together? Is Orton the ultimate opponent for Cena? When I debated the question with the other Uncrowned regulars ahead of Saturday's weekend, we all agreed that Cena vs. Orton was somewhere in our top five Cena feuds. What's clear, though, is that this is perhaps the best placed of Cena's legendary feuds (if not neck-and-neck with CM Punk) for a modern-day revival.
By this point, most people know the backstory: How Orton and Cena emerged in tandem from the golden days of Ohio Valley Wrestling — then serving as WWE's developmental partner — around the late 1990s, before bursting onto the main scene to help finally turn the page on the Attitude era.
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Once both men had established themselves as main-carders, the scene was set for their feud to begin. At the time, Cena was firmly in place as the WWE's golden boy, defending his title with a predictability that had begun to grate on some of the more cynical fans. A string of triumphs over The Great Khali in 2007 had practically confirmed Cena's invincibility.
After hitting the champ with a surprise RKO on "WWE Raw," Randy Orton threw down his glove as Cena's next competitor. And while he might not have quite punctured that invincibility, he did succeed in getting under the champion's skin — not least of which with a brutal punt kick to John Cena Sr. (Cena's real-life father) that left the all-American hero desperate for revenge.
Looking back, surely even Cena himself (Junior, that is) would concede that it was exactly what was needed. All of a sudden, the all-American babyface had a rawness and rage to his character — a development that led to Orton getting the better of him (at least psychologically) at 2007's Unforgiven event.
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When a legitimate injury forced Cena to vacate the title, the feud fell dormant, only to spring back into action with the former champ's shock return at the 2008 Royal Rumble. Given that his rival had won the WWE championship just an hour earlier, the stars were perfectly aligned for the old hostilities to resume.
If the smart fans had resented Cena's protected status as babyface champion, the next chapter went to great lengths to subvert their expectations — as the conniving Orton used every trick in the book to hang onto his gold and deprive the good guy of his prize. The legendary finish to their match at 2008's No Way Out — in which Orton assaulted the referee to force a DQ — remains one of the most famous heel moves in history.
Within months, Cena and Orton were being booked as blood rivals, in a similar vein to Austin and The Rock a decade earlier. The marquee treatment led to their best matches yet: A grueling "I Quit" showdown in 2009 that tested Cena's signature tenacity to its limits, and a similarly brutal 60-minute Iron Man match at Bragging Rights. Both remain modern classics to this day.
With Cena's destiny soon intertwined with that of the returning Rock, the Orton feud had to take a back seat for a few years. But that all changed in 2013, when a rug pull ending to SummerSlam saw Randy Orton returned to the top of WWE hierarchy — at the expense of the fans' beloved Daniel Bryan.
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Having screwed over the biggest babyface in all of pro-wrestling, "The Viper" was once again perfectly placed for another collision with his old nemesis. The fact that the two men were each holding the two biggest prizes in WWE pointed to an obvious landing point: A unification match to crown the one true champion.
It may have seemed the most predictable path. But who would have guessed back then in the blazing heat of a Los Angeles summer that the vendetta would culminate in a hardcore spectacle — a Tables, Ladders and Chairs match — just 10 days before Christmas? A very different prospect, to put it lightly, than the usual one-on-one stadium match at WrestleMania.
The match itself was an instant classic, with a series of inventive spots that drew as much on the deep psychological history of the Cena-Orton rivalry as they did on the TLC gimmick. There's a reason that WWE have been running so many video packages of it ahead of Saturday's reunion match. If you haven't seen them, go back and drink them in.
Given that the highlights have been shown on the weekly shows in the build to Saturday, should we expect some callbacks at Backlash? Some handcuffs perhaps? After the shallow and contrived end to Cena's last match at WrestleMania, it would certainly restore some authenticity to the main card.
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Acknowledging history is one thing, but it still leaves the obvious question: Can Saturday's match ever do justice to such a great rivalry? In all honesty, I wouldn't want to guess — but the fact that the 45-year-old Orton has lost none of the pace and appetite of his 'Legend Killer' days surely bodes well for what happens in the ring.
Throughout their interlocking careers, the two rivals have consistently shown their ability to exceed expectations and bring the best out of each other. Given the growing questions over the wisdom of the whole Cena heel turn, their pairing couldn't come at a better time — especially given Orton's well-earned status as a fan favorite.
Whatever else happens, there's a fitting symmetry to the whole thing. Just as the devious Orton helped round out Cena's babyface persona into something three-dimensional all those years ago, he now faces a parallel task some two decades later: To bring some much-needed authenticity to Cena's uneven run as the bad guy.
And if he can rise to that challenge, 'The Viper' might just go down in history as Cena's greatest rival after all.
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USA Today
18 minutes ago
- USA Today
EXCLUSIVE: Venus Williams gets own Barbie honoring her push for equal pay
When Mattel approached Venus Williams to make her own Barbie for the Inspiring Women Series, the American tennis legend was given free rein to select any outfit to be immortalized in. Williams, whose resume is long as her 6-foot-1 frame, had many moments to choose from throughout her trailblazing career. She could've selected the first of her seven Grand Slam singles titles at Wimbledon in 2000 or opted to memorialize her first of four Olympic gold medals at the Sydney Games that same year. Williams could've even took it back to the 1999 French Open, where she won the first of her 14 Grand Slam doubles titles with her little sister Serena Williams in their iconic braids and colorful beads. But Williams ultimately selected her win at the 2007 Wimbledon tournament and not for the reason you may think. It was the first year the women's and men's singles champions earned equal prize money at Wimbledon, a cause that Williams championed long before her win. "Wimbledon 2007 was a huge moment in my career — not just because I won, but because of what was happening off the court," Williams told USA TODAY Sports ahead of her Barbie's release on Aug. 15. "Championing for equal prize money wasn't just about me, it was about pushing for change for all women in sports. To see that moment honored with a Barbie doll is incredibly special. I hope it inspires young girls to speak up, believe in themselves, and know they have the power to change the game too." MORE: How to buy new Venus Williams Barbie, part of the inspiring women collection Venus Williams: 'My Barbie doll told my story' Williams said seeing her own Barbie marked a "full-circle moment." When she didn't have a tennis racket in her hand during her early years training alongside father, Richard Williams, and sister, Serena, Venus channeled her creative energy into giving her dolls one-of-a-kind makeovers. "I've always loved being creative, even as a kid, I used to sew clothes for my dolls," Williams recalled. "Seeing (my) finished doll was so surreal — it made me realize this doll represents something much bigger. It's about inspiring young girls they can dream big and break barriers too." Breaking barriers is Williams specialty. Two years before she triumphantly hoisted Wimbledon's Rosewater Dish for the fourth time in 2007, Williams met with officials from Wimbledon and the French Open. They were the two Grand Slams that didn't pay equal prize money at the time. When no change came from the meeting, Williams refused to leave the ball in the officials' court. She penned an article in The Times at the start of the 2006 tournament titled: Wimbledon has sent me a message: I'm only a second class champion. Williams' article was the catalyst for Wimbledon and the French Open to change. Both tournaments announced equal prize money for all competitors, beginning in 2007. Williams went on to win her sixth major singles title at Wimbledon that year and was the first woman to win the same purse as male champion Roger Federer. "My advice to any woman, not just advocating for equal pay but also advocating for themselves, is this: always bet on yourself and keep pushing, no matter how tough it gets," Williams told USA TODAY Sports. "There's so much power in believing in yourself. When you use your voice, you create space for others to speak up too and that can create real change." Venus Williams collaborated 'closely' on Barbie Williams' Barbie is wearing a two-piece white set identical to what she wore to defeat France's Marion Bartoli, 6–4, 6–1, in the 2007 Wimbledon final. Her "Inspiring Women Series" doll also features Williams' accessories from the match, including her green gem necklace, dangly earrings, wristbands and visors, in addition to Reebok tennis shoes. (Williams signed a multi-million dollar deal with Reebok in 1995 at age 14 after walking away from Nike because she believed she could earn more, as depicted in the 2021 biopic, "King Richard.") Don't forget about her racket and tennis ball. "Venus chose that outfit herself actually, so she collaborated really closely with our talented Barbie design team," Krista Berger, senior vice president of Barbie and global head of dolls at Mattel, told USA TODAY Sports. "They (worked) closely throughout the entire process of designing the doll to ensure it accurately reflected her appearance and her personal style." Berger said Williams' involvement with creating her own Barbie "added that personal touch to capture her impact as an athlete and an advocate. It's a moment that's important not only for the sport, for women, for fans, but to Venus personally." What's next for Venus Williams? The release of Williams' Barbie doll comes days ahead of the 2025 U.S. Open, where Williams is teaming up with fellow American Reilly Opelka in mixed doubles. She recently returned to competition for the first time in 16-months at the D.C. Open in July. "Coming back to D.C. reminded me how much I truly love this game," Williams said. "I've always stayed true to myself and played on my own terms. For me, excellence has no limits — I play because I love the process, and fully embrace each moment." Williams, 45, earned a straight sets victory over World No. 35 Peyton Stearns in the opening round to become the oldest player to win a tour-level singles match since 2004. Williams fell short in the second round against Magdalena Frech and made a quick, first-round exit at the Cincinnati Open, but she nonetheless celebrated being able to play "healthier than ever." "Reconnecting with that feeling, along with the energy and support of the fans, was truly something special," Williams added. The USA TODAY app gets you to the heart of the news — fast. Download for award-winning coverage, crosswords, audio storytelling, the eNewspaper and more.
Los Angeles Times
18 minutes ago
- Los Angeles Times
Before and after: They replaced their midcentury home with a modern pool-inspired refuge
The first thing you notice about the Monterey Park home of artist Yi Kai and his wife Jian Zheng is the swimming pool. Like David Hockney's pool paintings, which celebrate the sun-filled landscapes of Los Angeles, the glistening ripples of the pool water reverberate throughout the first floor, much like the skyline of Los Angeles in the distance. 'This house has always been treated not simply as a construction project, but as a continuously evolving piece of art,' says Kai. 'Over time, we've been refining, altering and reimagining it — a process that reflects the values of both experimentation and transformation.' The blue swimming pool, a quintessentially Californian feature, is not just a recreational space but a central element of the new house, which was built from the ground up after the 1956 home was torn down. According to architect De Peter Yi, who designed the newly completed home for his aunt and uncle in collaboration with architect Laura Marie Peterson, the home's original kidney-shaped pool was intended as a delightful surprise upon entering the house. The house's movement as it curves around the pool 'breaks out of the rigid house construct,' Yi says, and it's a deliberate design choice that symbolizes the blending of Chinese and American cultural elements. The magical quality of the pool extends well beyond the first floor. Upstairs, an 80-foot-long, curving teak deck, permitted within 50% of the rear setback, rotates around the pool, making the outdoor spaces feel much larger than they are. Partial-height walls frame the city, creating a series of outdoor spots that feel like rooms. 'For me, the house was really about opening up specific views and moments to create a series of indoor-outdoor rooms,' Peterson says. An 80-foot-long walkway creates memorable moments outdoors, Yi says, by 'taking something mundane and making it special' by framing the light as it shifts throughout the day. 'We are framing that view,' says Yi, comparing it to James Turrell's outdoor 'Skyspaces' (including the 'Dividing the Light' open-air pavilion at Pomona College) where Turrell frames a portion of the sky with a built environment. Kai, who is Chinese American, says his artworks blend aspects of his heritage but are 'centered around a single theme: understanding and reflecting on the human condition.' Look closely, and you'll see Kai's artistic touches throughout the house. For instance, an outdoor spiral staircase, a connection between the deck and the ground-floor garage studio, is a striking feature. It's screened in nine 18-foot wooden strips from the couple's original home and painted in red and blue with a seven-tier white base — a design that echoes the colors of the American flag. Another unique feature in the home is a long slot, reminiscent of a trap door, that allows Kai to move his paintings from his studio on the first floor to an attic-like space on the second floor where he stores them. Yi says his uncle's deep interest in Chinese and American culture is vividly reflected in the house's design. The slope of the roof, for instance, reflects the mid-century modern butterfly roofs scattered throughout the predominantly Chinese neighborhood, while the arc of the terrace references historic courtyard houses and gardens in China. Kai, 70, was born and raised in China and drafted into the People's Army as a railway soldier at age 15. After the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989, Kai fled China and relocated to the United States, where he lived for 13 years in Minneapolis and briefly in Boston, before meeting Jiang and settling in Los Angeles. In 1998, the couple purchased a three-bedroom home near Jian's office in Monterey Park, which is often referred to as 'Little Taipei,' because of the large number of immigrants from China residing there. 'It was easy for us to integrate into the community,' Kai says. Eight years later, when Kai got a job teaching art at Claremont Graduate University, they rented the house and moved to Rancho Cucamonga to be closer to Kai's job. When the couple began thinking about retiring in 2014, they turned to their nephew for help in reimagining their house so that they could return to Monterey Park. After years of working as an artist, Kai had modest dreams for retirement: He wanted a place where he and his wife would be comfortable. 'Peter wanted to design a special house related to art,' Kai says. Because of logistical and financial reasons, they decided to demolish the original home, which tenants had rented for 16 years, but retain the pool. Today, they are glad they did. 'The pool inspired everything that is special about the house,' Yi says of the project, which included requests for maximum living space, a first-floor bedroom with an in-suite bathroom for aging-in-place purposes and an art studio for Kai. 'I told him to use his imagination,' says Kai. 'I am a first-generation from China. He is a second-generation immigrant. I thought, 'Let's take his American ideas and my Chinese ideas and combine them.'' As an immigrant, Kai says he takes great pride in the multicultural group that worked on the home project over 30 months. 'Our lead designer, Peter Yi, came to the U.S. at age 5 [and] is a second-generation Chinese American,' Kai says. 'Gabriel Armendariz, another designer, comes from Mexico and brings a Latino cultural background. Halle Doenitz, our structural engineer, is a Caucasian American woman. MZ Construction has two partners, one from Hong Kong and one from mainland China, and Larry Ton, our contractor, has an arts background.' Their efforts have paid off. The interiors of the 2,200-square-foot home are expansive and airy, with easy access to the outdoors. Notably, the outdoor kitchen, located on the other side of the indoor kitchen, is a feature the couple uses daily for their stir-fry recipes. Asymmetrical windows throughout both floors of the home provide indirect lighting for Kai's artworks, responding to the house's geometry and mimicking its playfulness. Like the views from the terrace, the sight lines are constantly changing — palm trees appear in one window, a neighbor's tree in another — depending on where you look. 'The windows respond to the different views and interesting topography of Los Angeles,' Yi says. 'There is beauty in the sidewall and the neighbor's trees. The views extend the house outwards.' Similarly, colorful furnishings by China-based Pablo, in collaboration with artist Lu Biaobiao, in the living room and dining room play off the colors, symbols and textures of Kai's paintings. Upstairs, where a tea room connects to the main bedroom and bathroom, the entire living area, which includes the office where Kai stores his paintings, connects to the wraparound terrace. In addition to 450 square feet of balcony space on the second floor, the terrace adds an additional 650 square feet of shaded outdoor space on the ground floor. Though he lives in Cincinnati, the couple's architect nephew says it was rewarding for him to visit his family in their new home, which ultimately cost $1.5 million to build. 'It has been amazing to see how they use the house,' he says. Ultimately, Kai hopes to open the home to the public for salons, exhibitions and cross-cultural exchanges. 'America is my home,' he says, 'a place where I've realized many dreams and achieved both personal and professional success. It is also the place where I wish to give back, by contributing all I can — my art, my knowledge, and my energy — to help enrich American culture in return.' Adds Zheng: 'Everyone can appreciate art, and everyone can love it. But not everyone truly brings art into their daily lives or integrates it with how they live. Our goal is to inspire a shift in mindset, to show that art is something everyone can enjoy and that it can be a meaningful part of everyday life.'
Los Angeles Times
18 minutes ago
- Los Angeles Times
Daniel Dae Kim hopes ‘Butterfly' can be the ‘KPop Demon Hunters' of spy thrillers
'Butterfly' is actor and producer Daniel Dae Kim's love letter to Korea and America. Launching Wednesday, Prime Video's South Korea-set spy thriller follows David Jung (Kim), a former U.S. intelligence operative who comes out of hiding to reunite with his daughter Rebecca (Reina Hardesty), a deadly agent who grew up believing he was dead. 'It's been my dream because it represents the two major parts of who I am,' says Kim during a video call in late July. 'I'm a Korean who was raised in America, and these are the two countries that I love. Why not try and bridge the two cultures? I'm uniquely suited to do that.' Based on the graphic novel series created by Arash Amel, Kim describes the show as 'a relationship drama' where 'the action and the conflicts come out of an emotional place.' 'One of the things that was really important to me about the conception of David is that I didn't want him to be someone that was not without flaws,' says Kim, who also serves as an executive producer on the series. 'A lot of his actions come from a place of pain. A lot of Rebecca's character arc emanates from a place of pain.' 'Butterfly' includes plenty of action — including hand-to-hand fights and shootouts — but it's the central family drama, as well as how it is reflected in the action scenes, that the show's co-creators Ken Woodruff and Steph Cha also tout. Rebecca's story in particular was one of the elements Woodruff immediately responded to when he first read the original comic book series. 'My parents got divorced when I was young … and my dad moved across the country and started a whole new family within a year or two,' Woodruff says. 'There was just this really palpable connection that I felt with Rebecca's relationship with her father because there's love there, but there's also animosity and resentment and jealousy. That really hooked me in.' Though the graphic novel takes place in Europe and America, Kim saw moving the story to South Korea and centering a Korean and Korean American family as an opportunity to bridge Hollywood and Korean entertainment. This meant advocating for top Korean actors to be cast — like Park Hae-soo, Kim Ji-hoon and Kim Tae-hee — and hiring a Korean director for a block of the episodes. 'Daniel really cared about bridging these two cultures and doing it in a very respectful way and really making sure that we got it right,' Woodruff says. 'At times, [in] different circumstances, his feet were really held to the fire and he did not blink. He'd really advocate for the Korean characters, making sure that those actors and their roles were as fleshed out and as interesting as every other character.' One of the things that stood out for Cha was just how much care Kim took to look after everyone working on the show. 'He is always very good about making sure that people feel included and valuable,' Cha says. 'He took it upon himself to make sure that the Korean cast felt welcome and well-integrated, and that the American cast was comfortable in Korea.' 'He has a lot of nunchi,' adds Woodruff about Kim's care for others, displaying some of the Korean language skills he picked up thanks to the Korean crew, whom the creators also credited for ensuring Korean culture was represented authentically on the show. Kim is just grateful for the shifts in the industry and mainstream culture that made a show like 'Butterfly,' which was shot in Korea and features a significant amount of Korean dialogue, possible. 'I don't think 'Butterfly' could have been made even 10 years ago,' says Kim. 'The change in philosophy, I think, is so significant in the kinds of stories that we get to tell now. [And] if we do our jobs right, there'll be many more just like us.' In a conversation edited for length and clarity, Kim discusses his new series, his approach to producing and the importance of using his platform. What was your process of discovering David? How did you come to understand him? It wasn't hard because I'm a father myself. I understood how difficult it can be to raise children and how our work often gets in the way of being a good dad. Sometimes we find ourselves in situations because of our work where we have to make difficult choices about our families. David made a choice that he felt was right but it ended up being the absolute wrong choice for his daughter — whether he's strong enough to face the consequences of that decision is really what the first season is about. How much pain can he tolerate because of the pain he inflicted on his daughter? And, to be honest, how selfish is he that he still wants his vision of a family, even though a choice that he made destroyed it? That seems like a different kind of father from the one you play in 'Avatar: The Last Airbender.' They're different. But for me, the core of it is the same: What does it mean to be a father guiding a young life and a young psyche? Ozai makes the choice where he needs his child to follow in his footsteps in terms of leadership and style. And if his child cannot do that, then his child fails. His priority is on the mission. I think for David, it might have been that to a lesser degree, but now he's realized that that's not the choice he wants. Can someone have a second chance at being a good dad? That, to me, is something that is very human. It's very universal. People say about the show, 'Well, it's shot in Korea. It's got an Asian lead and it's about an Asian family. I don't know if I can relate.' If you have children, or you've had parents, you can probably relate to what's going on in this show. 'Butterfly' captures a lot of nuance that tends to get lost in media where identities get flattened instead of conveying the different shades of experiences that encompasses being Korean, being Korean American, also while being in Korea. That's why it was important to me that Rebecca be half Asian because that's another part of the experience that we haven't explored fully yet. I look forward to that part of it because Rebecca is someone who's not only half American, half Asian — she's also someone without a mother and lost her father, or so she thought. For a lot of my childhood, being Asian American meant that I felt like I was between two worlds and a member of neither. But now I'm in a place in my career and as an artist where I can embrace both of those things and say I actually can speak authentically to both experiences, and not many people can do that. To me, that's very novel in the way we approach this show. I tried to do it with the amount of respect and love that I have for both cultures. You mention Rebecca, and that relationship is central to the show. What was it like establishing that dynamic with Reina Hardesty? We were so lucky to find Reina in the casting process. It's not easy to ask someone to go to Korea for six months, start training, do a lot of heavy action and find the emotional depths that are required for this character. It's a very challenging role. When she came aboard all of the producers just breathed a huge sigh of relief and were so excited because we felt, to your point, that now we have a show. You're often recognized as one of the people who have been paving the way for other Asian American artists in the industry. I stand on the shoulders of a lot of people who came before, and they may not have been as successful as I've been fortunate enough to be, but that's the way this works. People blaze a trail so that other people can walk down it without getting pricked by thorns. So for me, it's a parallel to my journey as a dad. My goal is to create a life for my children so that they do better than I've done. That they'd be better people, that they'd be more successful, they'd be better to others. I want that for us as Asian American artists. Even when we were struggling, there was a generation of us, like Joel de la Fuente and Will Yun Lee and Ron Yuan, who would call each other all the time when there were auditions. There were so few at the time that our philosophy was, if it's not me, I want it to be you. Quite frankly, given the way our society is today, I think we could all use a little bit more of that feeling — that we're all looking out for one another a little bit more than we have in the recent past. What has it been like to navigate these times, where the industry is contracting and people outside of it are increasingly vocal in speaking out against diversity and inclusion? It reminds me of that quote from Martin Luther King Jr.: 'The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.' Or, if you're more financially minded, you're going to have up days and down days in the market, but what you're looking for is the trend line. I'm hopeful that what we're experiencing right now is just a down day, and that we will continue to trend in the right direction. I really am confident that a lot more people understand what it is to think about our community as inclusive and not just a way where it's a bad word. But just to seek understanding of experiences other than your own. And that goes for everyone, not just the minority and majority politics. There's so many things I learn every day from people who are not like me and I just feel like that's a more interesting way to live, personally. As far as our community is concerned, we're better off now than we have ever been in terms of representation. But that doesn't mean that we are where we need to be. Some would say that that's a cop-out, this glass half full and half empty. But it is a question of perspective. For me, I choose to acknowledge and appreciate the strides that we've made, and also understand that there's still a ways to go, as you can see in today's news, when it comes to understanding one another and showing compassion for another's journey. If you think thematically about our show, it's really about bringing people together, bringing a family together, as a metaphor for our larger community. We can all have made mistakes. We can all have done things that we regret. But it doesn't mean that we can't try to rectify them and be better people. One of the biggest movies out right now is 'KPop Demon Hunters,' on which you had a voice role, Healer Han. What goes into your decision on joining a project like this? Have you been surprised at the reception? I always think about what the semiotics of a project are when I take it. What's the representation like? What's the character like? Who are the people doing it? What's the story? All these things go into the matrix of how I make these decisions. And 'KPop Demon Hunters' was a project in the same spirit as 'Butterfly.' It was taking a form of entertainment that's Korean but putting it into English to make it for Americans and the world outside of Korea. There were Korean Americans behind it, just like 'Butterfly.' I saw that when they asked me to do it, and it was an easy yes. But no one can ever tell what the impact of a project is going to be when you're making it. I did not expect this from 'KPop Demon Hunters,' but I sure had a good time voicing the role, and that was one of the reasons I did it too. I enjoy comedy, and when I do voice roles I get to do more of it so I leaned into it and thought this was a fun character. The 4-year-old in my life is obsessed with 'KPop Demon Hunters.' My entire social media feed is 'KPop Demon Hunters' right now. And I gotta say, watching the Korean K-pop stars embrace 'KPop Demon Hunters' was as meaningful to me as watching non-Koreans embrace it. Because very often in Korea, Korean American stories don't resonate, but now they're just starting to. Maybe 'Butterfly' can be a part of that, and Koreans will take note of Korean Americans as well as Americans taking note of Korean Americans. We've always been that middle group, and hopefully we'll be able to shine in the spotlight. What has it been like for you to see the explosive popularity of Korean entertainment — like K-pop and K-dramas — in the mainstream? First of all, I'm surprised, because I grew up at a time where no one even knew what being Korean was. When I was a kid, people would ask me, 'Are you Chinese?' I say no. And they say, 'Are you Japanese?' I say no. And they would say, 'Then, what are you?' There was that little awareness of Korea. When I was a kid, my friends would come to my house and they would see my mom making kimchi, and they would say, 'What is that stink?' But now, not only do people know what it is, but people are eating it, understanding the probiotic qualities that it has. It's part of our culture. It makes me swell with pride. I'm so happy for my kids that they don't even know what it feels like to be embarrassed because you're Korean. That's a good place to be. We've focused more on your acting work, but what does it mean for you to also take on the role of a producer in something like 'Butterfly'? As an actor, you're only able to participate in the projects that ask for you. We're always auditioning or hoping that a director likes us or a producer likes us or a studio likes us. But as a producer, you become the job creator, and I love the idea of creating opportunities for people. That's one of the reasons I started to produce in the first place. There was such a dearth that I thought, well, let me go upstream and figure out why there is such a shortage of roles. Well, it's because people aren't creating them, so why don't I try and start creating them. People like to think that my company [3AD] is just for Asian Americans, but it's not. It's really for all those on the margins. That's really the story that I want to tell as a producer. We've all heard the story of the high school party through the eyes of the jocks and the cheerleaders and the popular kids. But I want to hear the story of that same high school party from the people who snuck in or weren't even invited, or the ones who are sitting at home not at the party. What are those stories, because to me, they're the ones that haven't been told before. What was it like building the team you're working with on 'Butterfly'? Being a job creator means that you can identify not just actors that you want to work with, but also writers. I'm very proud of the fact that so much of our writing staff was Asian American, or had some intimate knowledge of Asian culture, specifically the Korean culture. We were able to hire a crew that was 100% Korean and also we achieved very close, if not a 50-50 balance between men and women on our crew. These kinds of things matter to me. I have such a level of respect for our showrunner, Ken Woodruff, because he's not Asian American but he highlights the fact that you don't have to be Asian American to be a good ally and to be a good partner. Ken has been incredibly respectful of what he doesn't know through this whole process, and has been very deferential when it comes to things like the culture of Korea and the way that being Korean affects these characters and the storylines. At the same time, he's been really good about leading the way in everything he's learned in his many years as a storyteller guiding the writers room. To me, it's the epitome of a good partnership. People talk about allyship; this is allyship in action. I don't know that I've ever worked with a better showrunner than Ken Woodruff, and I've been in this business for 30 years. You've also been vocal on issues that are important to you. Why are you motivated to speak out in that way? Because I'm a human being and because I'm a citizen. I think it's always better when you have an informed citizenry. That's not meant to say that only one side is right and the other is wrong. But I am a big believer in education. I'm a big believer in asking questions and it's something I try to do in my real life. Ask, when I see something going on in the world around me that seems unjust or objectionable, 'Why is that? How did it get that way?' I think we all are entitled to have our opinion and the more educated it is, and the more well researched it is, the stronger that opinion can be. People say, 'shut up and act' the way that they would tell athletes, 'shut up and dribble,' but no one says to a plumber, 'shut up and fix pipes.' Everyone who has a job also is a citizen, is a human being, is affected by the policies around us every day. Part of being in a democracy means making your voice heard so that we can affect change together. The journey of our show is how to reconcile two characters and their differences. Open dialogue, continuing to want to learn and being respectful, I think, are things that seem to be in short supply these days and it makes me a little sad. I'm hopeful that some of the stories that I get to tell can bring us together rather than divide us.
