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South Carolina considers reviving failed $9B nuclear project

South Carolina considers reviving failed $9B nuclear project

Yahoo4 days ago

With growing demand for carbon-free, around-the-clock energy, more and more utilities, politicians and developers are looking toward nuclear power as a potential solution. The trouble is, for decades, U.S. nuclear development has been rare, slow and exceedingly expensive
And the list of failed projects greatly outnumbers the completed nuclear reactors in the past 30 years.
In South Carolina, Virgil C. Summer is the most recent and dramatic of such failures. Efforts to build two new nuclear reactors at the site, about an hour and a half south of Charlotte, were canceled in 2017 after massive cost overruns and a series of construction delays.
In the end, the reactors were left less than half complete, the developer, Westinghouse, declared bankruptcy, executives from South Carolina Gas and Electric, as well as Westinghouse, were indicted on fraud charges and ratepayers were stuck with a $9 billion bill.
They're still paying on their energy bills today.
Now, the Governor's Nuclear Advisory Council is advocating for the project to get a second look, potentially becoming the first and second nuclear reactors to come online since the completion of Georgia's Vogtle 3 and 4 reactors.
Why try again?
While some may see V.C. Summer as a lost cause, Jim Little sees a site ripe for a second chance.
As the industry representative of the Governor's Nuclear Advisory Council, he and Chairman Rick Lee visited the plant last fall to get a better understanding of where things left off when the project was canceled seven years ago. Instead of seeing the decaying ruins of a failed project, Little said he was pleasantly surprised to see most of the construction well-preserved.
'It looked like work had stopped a few months ago, not seven years ago,' he said.
READ: Federal funding restored for air quality monitoring after nonprofit sues Trump administration
According to Little, any new effort to build the two new reactors still had a chance of picking up where the last efforts left off. In a report to the governor, the council endorsed an inspection and analysis of the cost and construction schedule to complete VC Summer once and for all.
Optimistically, Little believes a VC Summer project that gets permitted and off the ground quickly could be operational in the next five years, which would be impossible for any nuclear reactor construction starting from scratch.
'If this can be done successfully, everything's upside,' Little said.
For Tom Ervin, a former Public Service Commissioner, who regulates South Carolina's utilities and works to set energy rates, that's a big 'if.'
'It's a big mistake,' he said. 'It's going to cost time, delays and much higher utility rates for all utility customers, small businesses, residents and even large manufacturers are going to struggle with these new rates.'
Ervin points to the recent commissioning of Vogtle 3 and 4, which have led to massive rate increases in Georgia to cover the project's more than $35 billion budget, a far cry from the $14 billion initially proposed in 2009.
With South Carolina ratepayers already stuck with a $9 billion bill from the failed VC project, Ervin believes they shouldn't be on the hook for another cent.
'Nuclear construction is so expensive and so complex,' he said. 'It's not a good option for us.'
Would things be different this time?
The nuclear picture in the United States has changed since 2017.
While Vogtle 3 and 4 faced numerous delays and massive budget overruns, the reactors were eventually completed and are providing 1.1 GW of around-the-clock clean energy each. The reactors at V.C. Summer are the exact same design, the AP 1000, so Little said it stands to reason that what's been done once can be done again.
'You can take advantage of all the lessons learned, the experience, the talent and the solutions on Vogtle and simply apply them to Virgil Summer,' he said.
READ: Solarize Charlotte-Mecklenburg to launch in June
According to Sola Talabi, president of Pittsburgh Technical and a former risk manager with Westinghouse's AP 1000 projects, the best way to avoid the same costly mistakes is to plan for them from the beginning.
'When projects are being executed, it's almost like driving a car, and the driver has to be fully engaged, with their hands on the steering wheel, with their eyes on the road,' he said. 'That's not the time to learn about how the car works or, you know, trying to figure out where you're going, right?'
When Vogtle and V.C. Summer were under construction, they were first-of-a-kind projects in the United States, Talabi explained. Their construction teams had to face and adjust to first-of-a-kind challenges in real time without the benefit of a road map. For any new AP 1000 construction, crews should be informed of potential delays and challenges up front so they know how to recognize and respond to them as quickly as possible, rather than relearning the lessons of the first crews in real time.
Talabi also believes time is of the essence. With the Vogtle project complete in 2024, every year that projects like V.C. Summer wait, the harder it will be to put the practical knowledge base of the Vogtle team to use.
'There's attrition of that knowledge. You have people retiring every day,' he said. 'Then you have potentially more competition for the available resources, because we expect that there would be, in the coming years, a significant increase in nuclear power plant construction, and there'll be competition for these resources.'
Talabi expects there will be more risk for the 'first mover' after Vogtle, but with so many other utilities across the country eyeing potential nuclear projects, he said late movers may suffer delays due to a shortage of qualified workers already busy on other projects.
'A little bit of activity [in nuclear] has started, but again, in a few years, in about two years, I'd expect there'd be significantly more,' he said.
If not nuclear, then what?
Nuclear is not the only way to provide large amounts of around-the-clock power or decarbonize the energy grid.
Ervin advocates for more investment in solar plus battery storage to balance out the intermittency inherent in renewable energy. He said that's the fastest way to get new power online, and for those skeptical of the limitations of renewable energy, he said the answer is natural gas, not nuclear.
'If you want to have power generation in the next decade or so, what we need to do is look at alternatives that are much less costly,' he said. 'Natural gas plants are also cheaper to build and take less time to build, and so most utilities around the country are turning to gas plants for short-term solution, not nuclear.'
Little argues, while there are other options, none are going to give you the output and reliability that nuclear can, especially given South Carolina's historic reliance on nuclear power.
What's next?
Santee Cooper, which owns part of the V.C. Summer site, put out a request for proposals to complete construction on the two new nuclear reactors and in a release, the utility announced it got a 'strong response.'
A spokesperson would not clarify how many bids Santee Cooper received. The utility will spend the next nine to 18 months reviewing those bids.
Santee Cooper has said it does not want to own or operate the new V.C. Summer reactors should they come online.
READ: Duke medical students research fungal growth in the aftermath of Helene
Should a company come in to get the project restarted, they would need to obtain new federal permits and licensing through the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, as the project's former permits were terminated at the time of cancellation. Inspectors with the NRC would also have to come out to the site and determine how much of the former project is build-ready and what work would need to be redone.
Little sees these hurdles as minor obstacles any responsible project manager could overcome. He believes that with enough interest from large customers like data centers, there should be enough capital investment to shield South Carolina ratepayers from the financial burden they faced last time.
More importantly, Little believes this project could prove the United States can build nuclear again.
'Can America lead? Everybody's saying, 'has America lost its leadership in nuclear power?'' He said. 'This isn't just about a project. It's about a second chance.'
Should the project fail again, however, Ervin believes that should be the final nail in the coffin for the industry.
'We had a really horrific experience in South Carolina, which I hope will never be repeated anywhere else,' he said. 'To start from scratch in this kind of environment is just not it's not a wise decision at all.'
WATCH: Duke medical students research fungal growth in the aftermath of Helene

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Bill Clinton reveals key White House details in murderous new political thriller
Bill Clinton reveals key White House details in murderous new political thriller

USA Today

time7 hours ago

  • USA Today

Bill Clinton reveals key White House details in murderous new political thriller

Bill Clinton reveals key White House details in murderous new political thriller Show Caption Hide Caption Bill Clinton and James Patterson talk new political thriller book Bill Clinton and James Patterson release "The First Gentleman," using Clinton's White House experience to shape their third political thriller. WHITE PLAINS, NY – Most former presidents write memoirs after they leave the White House. Former President Bill Clinton has been there, done that. First on his literary agenda now? Writing political thrillers. Clinton is a thriller reader himself, but more than that he just really wanted a chance to work with bestselling author James Patterson. Their third novel, "The First Gentleman" is out now from Little, Brown and Company. Sitting down for an interview with USA TODAY, the prolific pair catch up like a couple of old friends – Clinton shares a story of tourists he spotted reading his wife's book while in Korea and gives Patterson the name of a new author to check out. "He reads everything," Patterson tells me. Both love S.A. Cosby, Michael Connelly and Lee Child. In their latest novel, the fictional Madame President Wright's husband is on trial for murder, a potential crime uncovered by journalist couple Brea and Garrett. Not only is it harmful to the White House image for the first gentleman and former Patriots player to be accused of murder, but it threatens to upend the carefully crafted economic "Grand Bargain" the president is nearly ready to announce. It's a twisty thriller with plenty of inside jobs, political sabotage and many, many deaths. Clinton and Patterson take us inside their writing process, revealing how they weave details pulled from real life with fictional characters to create the next big nail-biter. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. Question: How has your collaboration changed over three books? Patterson: I don't think it's changed. Other than, I will say, I think this turned out really, really well. If somebody's looking to read a book with really good characters and great story or if they want to find out sort of how Washington really works, I think this is really cool for either one of those kinds of people. But initially we had, it was a little bit of a problem in terms of getting the characters real. They weren't working and we just kept going at it. Clinton: We had this just gut-wrenching conversation because in the beginning, we were excited – what would it be like to write a book that was from the point of view of the first gentleman, the first woman president's husband? It had all kinds of fascinating ramifications. But then something happened while we were doing it and I realized we hadn't created anybody you could like. Patterson: We have these two (reporters) and they weren't working, either, in the beginning. When people think of my writing, they go "short chapters," but the whole thing is character. Alex Cross is, in my opinion, a great character. Lindsay Boxer is a really good character. The characters in "First Gentleman," there are four of them, are really good characters, and that's the key. Obviously (Clinton) was key in terms of making those characters work, especially in the White House. Clinton: People (in the White House) struggle to maintain some measure of normalcy, however they define it. Even though you have to be ambitious to be elected president and disciplined to execute the job, you're still a person. We all react differently to different things that happen. So we try to capture that. Patterson: The humanity. I wish we could get back to the understanding that whatever party you're with, (we are) human beings. I'll give you one quick example: Last year, the president called the house and my wife and he said, put it on (FaceTime). And there he was with his grandkids, and he was in a tiger suit with only his face showing. Human being! Right, and in this book, all the first gentleman wants to do is go on a run with no one bothering him. Patterson: President Clinton used to go on runs. Clinton: I went running every morning for years. I still have the M&M's box that I was given by the head of my security detail on my 100th run when I was president. I loved it. Patterson: Once M&M's get 20 years old you don't eat them anymore. Are there any other signature Clinton White House details that made it into the book? Patterson: You have a relationship with a man and a woman, and obviously, it would've been possible at one point for President Clinton to be the first gentleman. Clinton: It's the only job I ever wanted that I didn't get. Is that why you chose to make a female president in this book? Clinton: I had thought a lot about, long after I left the White House and Hillary was running, and I thought about it. This character, he and his president wife, they're closer to the age Hillary and I were when we actually served. So I was thinking about, even though he was a pro football player and macho guy, he was really proud of his wife. He wanted her to succeed. He wasn't threatened by her being president, but he could be threatened by people making certain assumptions about him, like he was a dumb jock, which he's not. Patterson: But is he a murderer? Clinton: We keep that hanging a long time. In the book, President Wright is trying to pass legislation to address Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. How did you come up with the "Grand Bargain"? Clinton: I knew what the drivers of the debt are and what the politics pushing against real change are, and so I tried to think of the things we could do to get it under control that would be the most bearable, both for people and politically. Patterson: It's a fascinating thing. How do you solve the problem with Social Security and Medicaid? And there is, you know, there's in the book, there is a solution. It's complicated, which is kind of cool. You don't hear anything (today), about, well, how do we solve these problems? I'd like to hear that right now. Yes, there is a problem. Clinton: Medicaid pays for about 40% of all childbirth and pays for an enormous percentage of senior citizens' health care and a lot of other stuff. It's really important. So this bill that's just been presented cuts Medicaid in order to help pay for a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires. In all respect, (Patterson) and I don't need a tax cut. We'd rather have people with health care. So these are choices, and unless people understand that these choices are being made, they can't know clearly whether they're against or for whatever's being proposed. Patterson: This lays out that there is an alternative to that which makes sense and we don't have to cut things off for people who really need help. What was it like crafting fictional presidential addresses? Clinton: I imagined what I would say if confronted with the challenges she was confronted with. If you really want to change something, people like to hear about it in speeches and imagine it, but it almost always requires a mind numbing, detail-written piece of legislation – not always, but mostly. So, I tried to figure out how to sell it in the speech and describe how complicated the legislation would be without putting people to sleep. I found it difficult, but I think it's important, because one thing I learned the hard way is if you can't explain it, you can't sell it, and if you can't sell it and it's hard, you're going to get creamed. The problem we describe is something like what really exists today. Except today, it's in many ways more severe. It's just that our economy has been, for the last 20 years, or now 30 years, stronger than any other one in the world. Patterson, were there any details about the presidency or White House that Clinton added that surprised you? Patterson: A lot of little things. I might set a scene and he'd go: "It can't happen in that room. That room is so small, there's not room for three people in that room." And anytime it pops up: "The Secret Service wouldn't act like that. They would act like this." A lot of the thriller writers that we all like, they just make stuff up. When you're working with a president, you just can't make it up, because he'll go: "No, it wouldn't work that way. Here's how it could work." One of the beauties of this book, and the three that we've done, is that it's a really good story with really good characters, but it's also authentic. Did you have a favorite character to write? Patterson: Favorite character for me is Brea – she just develops, she gets stronger and stronger for a lot of reasons, and there is one big twist in there, and that really propels her as a character. Clinton: I agree with that, and one of the reasons I liked her is that she's smart and brave and good and honest, but in the beginning of the book, she thinks something that's very wrong about a big issue, and when she knows she's wrong, she turns on a dime and does the right thing. You don't see that much in Washington. Patterson: Or in general. Clinton: There are people that think that you never admit error. You accuse other people of doing what you're doing, and you roll along. The worst thing you can do is admit that she made a mistake. I like her because she's playing in the big leagues − her whole life is on the line, and she still does the right thing. Patterson: We've sold this in Hollywood and ... the production companies go, "Well, maybe we should cast (First Gentleman) Cole." I'm going like, no, you better cast Brea, because Cole, he's a good character, but Brea, she's real, and Garrett, her partner, they are really key characters. And the president herself, but Cole, eh, I don't know. Not as big a character. Who would be your dream actor to play her? (Brea, the protagonist, is Black.) Patterson: There's so many. I mean, that's the beauty right now − one of the nice things that's happened in Hollywood, especially with Black actors, so many have been discovered. There are so many choices. What are you excited for readers to see in this story, especially fans of your last two thrillers? Clinton: I'm excited for them to see, first of all, that there's still room for citizen activism that can make all the difference in the world, from people who just want to do the right thing, like Brea and Garrett. Secondly, I want them to see that a president and her husband are people. No matter what's going on, she's still got to go to work every day. If she thinks (Cole) machine-gunned half a dozen people, she's still got to go to work. Nobody else can make these decisions. I want them to see how staff behaves, senior staff, and when they're honorable and when they're not, and what a difference it can make, because you can't be president unless you can trust them. You have to have some people you trust. Clare Mulroy is USA TODAY's books reporter, where she covers buzzy releases, chats with authors and dives into the culture of reading. Find her on Instagram, subscribe to our weekly Books newsletter or tell her what you're reading at cmulroy@

Maryland teen wanted for murder at Columbia mall arrested in New York City
Maryland teen wanted for murder at Columbia mall arrested in New York City

Yahoo

timea day ago

  • Yahoo

Maryland teen wanted for murder at Columbia mall arrested in New York City

HOWARD COUNTY, Md. () — A teen who was wanted for murder in connection with a shooting at the was arrested in New York City, according to the Howard County Police Department (HCPD). Police announced on Thursday, May 31, that 18-year-old William Marshall III, was taken into custody for the murder of 17-year-old Angelo Little. 'I am proud of the outstanding, tireless work of everyone involved in this search, including HCPD officers, U.S. Marshals and our HCPD social media team,' said Howard County Police Chief Gregory Der. 'There was true creativity and ingenuity that resulted in this apprehension. We aren't immune from crime in Howard County, but if you commit a crime here, we will catch you and bring you to justice, no matter how long it takes.' PREVIOUS COVERAGE | HCPD searching for 17-year-old boy wanted for murder in connection to Columbia Mall shooting On the evening of July 27, 2024, Howard County police officers were called to The Mall in Columbia for a shooting, where they found Little, who had been shot. He died at the scene. Throughout the investigation, detectives from the mall allegedly showing a man dressed in all black with a dark mask covering his face. As the video continues, the man is seen sitting at a table in the food court with his head down. Once Little begins walking to the bathroom, the person follows him. According to police, he then waited for Little to leave the bathroom, and that's when he fired one shot before running through the back door. About a month later, detectives identified Marshall, who was 17 at the time, as the suspected gunman. He was charged with first-degree murder. Their investigation determined that Marshall, also known as 'Junior,' knew Little and targeted him. Since 'Crime Reduction Plan', Howard County PD reports no gun-related violence near Columbia mall For several months, authorities were unable to locate Marshall. Despite this, officials continued to conduct extensive interviews. Investigators also tracked down hundreds of tips, reviewed digital evidence, conducted hours of surveillance and traveled to multiple states. As the search for Marshall intensified, the U.S. Marshals joined the police department's search. The case had a break in late May of 2025, when detectives received a lead that Marshall was in New York City. During the overnight hours of May 28, authorities searched a building in Brooklyn, NY, where they apprehended Marshall. 'This was a collaborative effort with months of diligence, long nights, and communication. After a long road, our hard work has led us to the arrest of William Marshall. We remain committed to ensuring accountability and taking criminals off the street,' said Howard County Executive Calvin Ball. As of May 29, Marshall was being held in New York and was awaiting extradition to Maryland. The motive for the shooting remains unclear, and officials are working to determine what led up to the shooting. Police noted that detectives are also investigating if someone helped Marshall elude the police; if so, criminal charges will be filed. Copyright 2025 Nexstar Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Bill Clinton and James Patterson reveal key White House details in new political thriller
Bill Clinton and James Patterson reveal key White House details in new political thriller

USA Today

timea day ago

  • USA Today

Bill Clinton and James Patterson reveal key White House details in new political thriller

Bill Clinton and James Patterson reveal key White House details in new political thriller Show Caption Hide Caption Bill Clinton and James Patterson talk new political thriller book Bill Clinton and James Patterson release "The First Gentleman," using Clinton's White House experience to shape their third political thriller. WHITE PLAINS, NY – Most former presidents write memoirs after they leave the White House. Former President Bill Clinton has been there, done that. First on his literary agenda now? Writing political thrillers. Clinton is a thriller reader himself, but more than that he just really wanted a chance to work with bestselling author James Patterson. Their third novel, 'The First Gentleman" is out now from Little, Brown and Company. Sitting down for an interview with USA TODAY, the prolific pair catch up like a couple of old friends – Clinton shares a story of tourists he spotted reading his wife's book while in Korea and gives Patterson the name of a new author to check out. 'He reads everything,' Patterson tells me. Both love S.A. Cosby, Michael Connelly and Lee Child. In their latest novel, the fictional Madame President Wright's husband is on trial for murder, a potential crime uncovered by journalist couple Brea and Garrett. Not only is it harmful to the White House image for the first gentleman and former Patriots player to be accused of murder, but it threatens to upend the carefully crafted economic 'Grand Bargain' the president is nearly ready to announce. It's a twisty thriller with plenty of inside jobs, political sabotage and many, many deaths. Clinton and Patterson take us inside their writing process, revealing how they weave details pulled from real life with fictional characters to create the next big nail-biter. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. Question: How has your collaboration changed over three books? Patterson: I don't think it's changed. Other than, I will say, I think this turned out really, really well. If somebody's looking to read a book with really good characters and great story or if they want to find out sort of how Washington really works, I think this is really cool for either one of those kinds of people. But initially we had, it was a little bit of a problem in terms of getting the characters real. They weren't working and we just kept going at it. Clinton: We had this just gut-wrenching conversation because in the beginning, we were excited – what would it be like to write a book that was from the point of view of the first gentleman, the first woman president's husband? It had all kinds of fascinating ramifications. But then something happened while we were doing it and I realized we hadn't created anybody you could like. Patterson: We have these two (reporters) and they weren't working, either, in the beginning. When people think of my writing, they go 'short chapters,' but the whole thing is character. Alex Cross is, in my opinion, a great character. Lindsay Boxer is a really good character. The characters in "First Gentleman," there are four of them, are really good characters, and that's the key. Obviously (Clinton) was key in terms of making those characters work, especially in the White House. Clinton: People (in the White House) struggle to maintain some measure of normalcy, however they define it. Even though you have to be ambitious to be elected president and disciplined to execute the job, you're still a person. We all react differently to different things that happen. So we try to capture that. Patterson: The humanity. I wish we could get back to the understanding that whatever party you're with, (we are) human beings. I'll give you one quick example: Last year, the president called the house and my wife and he said, put it on (FaceTime). And there he was with his grandkids, and he was in a tiger suit with only his face showing. Human being! Right, and in this book, all the first gentleman wants to do is go on a run with no one bothering him. Patterson: President Clinton used to go on runs. Clinton: I went running every morning for years. I still have the M&M's box that I was given by the head of my security detail on my 100th run when I was president. I loved it. Patterson: Once M&M's get 20 years old you don't eat them anymore. Are there any other signature Clinton White House details that made it into the book? Patterson: You have a relationship with a man and a woman, and obviously, it would've been possible at one point for President Clinton to be the first gentleman. Clinton: It's the only job I ever wanted that I didn't get. Is that why you chose to make a female president in this book? Clinton: I had thought a lot about, long after I left the White House and Hillary was running, and I thought about it. This character, he and his president wife, they're closer to the age Hillary and I were when we actually served. So I was thinking about, even though he was a pro football player and macho guy, he was really proud of his wife. He wanted her to succeed. He wasn't threatened by her being president, but he could be threatened by people making certain assumptions about him, like he was a dumb jock, which he's not. Patterson: But is he a murderer? Clinton: We keep that hanging a long time. In the book, President Wright is trying to pass legislation to address Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. How did you come up with the 'Grand Bargain'? Clinton: I knew what the drivers of the debt are and what the politics pushing against real change are, and so I tried to think of the things we could do to get it under control that would be the most bearable, both for people and politically. Patterson: It's a fascinating thing. How do you solve the problem with Social Security and Medicaid? And there is, you know, there's in the book, there is a solution. It's complicated, which is kind of cool. You don't hear anything (today), about, well, how do we solve these problems? I'd like to hear that right now. Yes, there is a problem. Clinton: Medicaid pays for about 40% of all childbirth and pays for an enormous percentage of senior citizens' health care and a lot of other stuff. It's really important. So this bill that's just been presented cuts Medicaid in order to help pay for a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires. In all respect, (Patterson) and I don't need a tax cut. We'd rather have people with health care. So these are choices, and unless people understand that these choices are being made, they can't know clearly whether they're against or for whatever's being proposed. Patterson: This lays out that there is an alternative to that which makes sense and we don't have to cut things off for people who really need help. What was it like crafting fictional presidential addresses? Clinton: I imagined what I would say if confronted with the challenges she was confronted with. If you really want to change something, people like to hear about it in speeches and imagine it, but it almost always requires a mind numbing, detail-written piece of legislation – not always, but mostly. So, I tried to figure out how to sell it in the speech and describe how complicated the legislation would be without putting people to sleep. I found it difficult, but I think it's important, because one thing I learned the hard way is if you can't explain it, you can't sell it, and if you can't sell it and it's hard, you're going to get creamed. The problem we describe is something like what really exists today. Except today, it's in many ways more severe. It's just that our economy has been, for the last 20 years, or now 30 years, stronger than any other one in the world. Patterson, were there any details about the presidency or White House that Clinton added that surprised you? Patterson: A lot of little things. I might set a scene and he'd go: 'It can't happen in that room. That room is so small, there's not room for three people in that room.' And anytime it pops up: 'The Secret Service wouldn't act like that. They would act like this.' A lot of the thriller writers that we all like, they just make stuff up. When you're working with a president, you just can't make it up, because he'll go: 'No, it wouldn't work that way. Here's how it could work.' One of the beauties of this book, and the three that we've done, is that it's a really good story with really good characters, but it's also authentic. Did you have a favorite character to write? Patterson: Favorite character for me is Brea – she just develops, she gets stronger and stronger for a lot of reasons, and there is one big twist in there, and that really propels her as a character. Clinton: I agree with that, and one of the reasons I liked her is that she's smart and brave and good and honest, but in the beginning of the book, she thinks something that's very wrong about a big issue, and when she knows she's wrong, she turns on a dime and does the right thing. You don't see that much in Washington. Patterson: Or in general. Clinton: There are people that think that you never admit error. You accuse other people of doing what you're doing, and you roll along. The worst thing you can do is admit that she made a mistake. I like her because she's playing in the big leagues − her whole life is on the line, and she still does the right thing. Patterson: We've sold this in Hollywood and ... the production companies go, 'Well, maybe we should cast (First Gentleman) Cole.' I'm going like, no, you better cast Brea, because Cole, he's a good character, but Brea, she's real, and Garrett, her partner, they are really key characters. And the president herself, but Cole, eh, I don't know. Not as big a character. Who would be your dream actor to play her? (Brea, the protagonist, is Black). Patterson: There's so many. I mean, that's the beauty right now − one of the nice things that's happened in Hollywood, especially with Black actors, so many have been discovered. There are so many choices. What are you excited for readers to see in this story, especially fans of your last two thrillers? Clinton: I'm excited for them to see, first of all, that there's still room for citizen activism that can make all the difference in the world, from people who just want to do the right thing, like Brea and Garrett. Secondly, I want them to see that a president and her husband are people. No matter what's going on, she's still got to go to work every day. If she thinks (Cole) machine-gunned half a dozen people, she's still got to go to work. Nobody else can make these decisions. I want them to see how staff behaves, senior staff, and when they're honorable and when they're not, and what a difference it can make, because you can't be president unless you can trust them. You have to have some people you trust. Clare Mulroy is USA TODAY's books reporter, where she covers buzzy releases, chats with authors and dives into the culture of reading. Find her on Instagram, subscribe to our weekly Books newsletter or tell her what you're reading at cmulroy@

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