Brazil are a mess. What will it take to fix them?

New York Times

28-03-2025

Brazil aren't a nation accustomed to many low points on the international stage, but their 4-1 humbling by Argentina in Buenos Aires on Tuesday night was undoubtedly one of them.
The loss marked Brazil's heaviest ever defeat in a World Cup qualifier, compounded by the fact Argentina had already secured their qualification before kickoff thanks to Bolivia's failure to beat Uruguay.
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On the latest episode of The Totally Football Show, James Richardson, Charlie Eccleshare, Benji Lanyado and Michael Cox were joined by Sky Sports reporter and Brazil fan Natalie Gedra. Natalie broke down how the turmoil within the Brazilian FA, coupled with a shortage of top-class coaches, has led to the team's recent struggles on the pitch.
A partial transcript has been edited for clarity and length. The full episode is available on 'The Totally Football Show' feed on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
James: Natalie, what have the repercussions been in Brazil and who are they talking about there? Also, what is the position of Dorival Junior (head coach), and why is it the fault of the man at the top?
Natalie: There are so many things to address. With Dorival Junior, since he started working with Brazil, no one was convinced because Brazil hadn't really played well, apart from his first couple of games. There's a meeting between him and Ednaldo Rodrigues, the president of the Brazilian Federation, scheduled for this Friday. The Brazilian media is already reporting that they are back in touch with Carlo Ancelotti, and there is hope of getting Ancelotti.
Another name would be Jorge Jesus, who was the head coach of Flamengo and is now at Al Hilal. It's almost certain Dorival Junior won't make it to the World Cup in 2026. But there is a big question mark because I've mentioned Ancelotti and Jesus, and everybody is talking about these two names, but they're both involved in the Club World Cup this summer.
So the big question is, 'Will Brazil have a manager in the next international break?' Because it's before the Club World Cup and there's a possibility Dorival Junior won't even make it to June. And even if he is the head coach for the next international break, what will happen after that? That is a big question mark. The next matches are against Ecuador and Paraguay, but people aren't concerned about whether Brazil will qualify or not, because everybody will basically qualify, it feels like 150 teams will be at the World Cup in 2026…
The bigger concern is how we are going to look in the United States, Canada and Mexico because it's been really bad. At the top of the hierarchy, you have Ednaldo Rodrigues, who just got re-elected the day before the Argentina match with no opposition. This was concerning and also shocking because no one likes him. Ronaldo tried to run for the presidency of the Brazilian FA, but the state federations — of which there are 27 states in Brazil and all needed to be on board — weren't even talking and weren't willing to open talks with Ronaldo to back him up. So Ednaldo Rodrigues was re-elected without opposition.
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There is a lack of perspective of some order in the structure of Brazilian football, and it's quite sad. Maybe we can rock up and perform well in the World Cup after these poor qualifiers, it's happened before in 1994 and 2002. But there's this reliance on the talent, and that's it. There's an assumption that because we have talented players, we can just sort this out. But it runs deeper than that.
James: In 2002 and 1994, though, Natalie, were you this bad in qualifying?
Natalie: In 2002, it was really bad. We only got through in the last game, and there were two changes of managers, so it was a bit chaotic. As for 1994, we had Romario, who basically just went and sorted out the whole thing. The process of 2002 was really chaotic, but in the end, we had Luiz Felipe Scolari, who brought some order in those final rounds and matches. But the thing is, we can't keep relying on pure talent to win a World Cup. It's been 24 years now in 2026. But there is hope, and I think that's the mentality of the Brazilian FA.
Benji: Natalie, with Ancelotti, what is this obsession?
Natalie: What is being reported in the Brazilian media is that Ancelotti did like the idea of managing Brazil. There is this idea that top managers would like the job because there is so much talent, plus the style and brand of football are very attractive. But at the same time, the Brazilian FA is just a mess. I think the conversations with Ancelotti started in a positive way, but then he saw that it was a mess. We didn't even have a Brazilian FA president when he said no to the job; this was one of the main reasons he turned it down.
People keep talking about Ancelotti and Pep Guardiola, but these guys are used to dealing with well-structured environments. But there is a clinging hope of Ancelotti because the FA believe the talent and brand of Brazilian football is going to sort it out and convince him.
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Charlie: Is there any thought of Brazil finding their Lionel Scaloni equivalent? A former West Ham winger, maybe… or just someone who's not necessarily a big name. I don't think Scaloni came into Argentina with a huge amount of fanfare. So, anyone outside of Ancelotti or Guardiola? A more low-key person who can launch a cultural change?
Natalie: Argentina stumbled into Scaloni, and things have worked out really well. They've been rewarded by keeping him and trusting his process because the players have been responding to him. But there is a big crisis in Brazil in terms of management. Brazil hasn't been forming managers. This argument has been happening for so long now because Tite was the head coach of Brazil for two World Cups. People have been talking about this topic for almost 10 years, and they still haven't come up with a solution.
It's not like, 'Oh my God, Tite all of a sudden just left and we're now left with this problem.' No, we knew Tite was going to leave after 2022, and everyone knew there was this problem with Brazilian head coaches. Fernando Diniz had some time, but it didn't work for him, and maybe in terms of profile, it wasn't right for him, even though he's a brilliant manager. But there are no options. This is why the Brazilian league keeps turning to Portuguese head coaches. They don't have Brazilian coaches, or any young Brazilian upcoming coaches like Scaloni with Argentina.
You can listen to full episodes of The Totally Football Show for free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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