Joe Rogan's guests are revolting
Sam Harris is the kind of guest Joe Rogan loves to have on his podcast: he dresses awkwardly in a sport coat with jeans; he undertook a PhD in neuroscience after a transformative experience with MDMA; his tone is accessible yet patronising; he has a sense of academic authority which belies a set of controversial views that include calling Islam 'uniquely uncivil' and almost unfettered support for Israeli attacks on Gaza; he made an app called Waking Up, which promises to be 'a new operating system for your mind'. Rogan has hosted Harris on his podcast many times and the pair call each other good friends.
But even Harris seems perturbed by Rogan's more wholehearted embrace of Musk and Maga. 'He's in over his head on so many topics of great consequence,' Harris told his listeners of his own podcast last week. 'He'll bring someone in to shoot the shit on 'how the Holocaust is not what you think it was' or 'maybe Churchill was the bad guy in world war two' … or he'll talk to someone like Trump or Tucker Carlson, who lie as freely as they breathe, and doesn't push back against any of their lies … It is irresponsible, and it's directly harmful.'
Joe Rogan's podcast success has in large part been about building a community of regular guests from the worlds of comedy, wrestling, psychedelics and non-fiction publishing, a kind of Rogansphere that has begun to feel like a subculture. He hosts his favourite guests time after time, with many of them building entire careers off their appearances on the show.
But recently, various members of the Rogansphere have started to turn against their leader. They can't understand how the host of the most popular podcast in the world seems to have gone from asking questions to both sides to defending Elon Musk at every turn and providing a platform for second world war revisionists.
In the past few months, Rogan has called people who thought Elon Musk's hand gesture was a Nazi salute 'dumb', 'crazy', 'illogical and weird' and defended it by saying it's how Americans used to give the pledge of allegiance in the 1940s. Weeks later, he gave a very sympathetic interview to the podcaster Darryl Cooper, who has previously called Winston Churchill the main villain of the second world war and tweeted an image of Nazis in Paris, saying it was 'infinitely preferable' to the drag 'Last Supper' scene at the 2024 Paris Olympics opening ceremony.
Rogan wasn't always like this. Over the past decade he has built his podcast into by far the most successful in the world, weathering numerous controversies. He spent much of his career being mislabelled as ideologically rightwing or misogynistic when in fact he's more of a simpleton who agrees with almost everyone who comes on his show, even when the things they're saying are contradictory. He has been a staunch believer 'in just asking questions' but not so much in listening to or processing the answers. He has supported both Bernie Sanders and RFK Jr, and has taken conflicting views on everything from trans rights to Ye, sometimes hilariously so.
The best thing you could say about Rogan is that he is distrustful of all mainstream narratives, in an indiscriminate way. That's led to him promoting a number of conspiracy theories that fly in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence about vaccines and the climate crisis, but also vocally criticising the war in Gaza and the influence of lobbyists in Washington DC.
But his outlook has shifted since Trump was elected for the second time, a victory many credit to a good performance on Rogan's podcast and Rogan's subsequent endorsement. On Saturday night at a UFC fight, Rogan ran into Trump, warmly embraced him and said: 'I'm so happy for you sir.' Many of his biggest fans, those that discuss episodes in detail on Reddit and Discord, are complaining that he has become a shill for the elites he used to claim to distrust.
Rogan has tended to brush off these critiques in the past, saying he's just an interested comedian asking questions. But even Rogan's comedy friends have started to bristle at his unwavering support for Musk. Rogan values comedy above all else, investing much of the riches from his podcast in the Austin comedy scene, buying up clubs and appearing regularly as a panellist on Kill Tony, the open-mic standup podcast that takes shots at perceived wokeism. Rogan has a regular cast of comedians on his podcast including Shane Gillis, Kyle Dunnigan and Tim Dillon. These comedians give Rogan his street credibility, and he in turn has given them a huge platform.
While they haven't turned on Rogan yet, they are incredibly disparaging about Musk. Dillon called Musk's White House press conference 'the grossest and cringiest shit anyone has seen for a long time … I disagree with close friends of mine who think Elon Musk is the new Jesus.' Gillis laughed about Musk's salute on his podcast, and said he thought Musk was 'psychotic' and 'fucking weird' for lying about how good he is at video games.
Rogan meanwhile has recently called Musk 'a super genius that's been fucked with' and 'one of the smartest people alive'.
This emerging divide between Rogan and his comedic milieu came to a head last month at the recording of Kill Tony's first special for Netflix (filmed at Rogan's Comedy Mothership club in Austin). Both Dunnigan and Rogan were on the panel together but Dunnigan was in character, hilariously, as Musk. It was a brilliant and vicious send-up of Musk's bizarre humour and minimal intelligence that had everyone laughing except Rogan, who avoided making eye contact or saying almost anything for the entire episode. It seemed as though he didn't want to give any impression to Musk that he was was mocking him.
There are no simple ideological lines being drawn here. Douglas Murray, for example, is an incredibly conservative pro-Israel historian who supports the withdrawal of visas from students who demonstrated on college campuses last year and has said he wants to ban 'all immigration into Europe from Muslim countries'. In many ways he is to the right of Rogan, and used much of his appearance losing a debate on the podcast with his fellow guest Dave Smith over Gaza. Yet he also used his time to admonish Rogan for having too many amateur and conspiracy theory-minded historians on the podcast. 'I feel you've opened the door to quite a lot of people. You've now got a big platform and have been throwing out counter-historical stuff but a very dangerous kind.'
Rogan had very little in the way of a meaningful defence. Defending why he had the conspiracy theorist and Pizzagate proponent Ian Carroll on his program, Rogan replied: 'I just think I'd like to talk to this person … I brought him on because I want to find out, like, how does one get involved in the whole conspiracy theory business? Because his whole thing is just conspiracies.'
There are no smart guys here; both Murray and Rogan have tendency to use circuitous straw man arguments that suit their specific brand of politics. But it does show cracks in the cultural wing of Trumpism.
Rogan himself seems to be backing down from a full-throated endorsement of the president's policies, calling the Venezuelan deportations 'horrific' and 'bad for the cause', and calling Trump's feud with Canada over tariffs 'stupid'. Last month he said healthcare should '100% should be socially funded' and was celebrated by Bernie Sanders for doing so.
Yet these acknowledgements of bad policies haven't translated into a lack of enthusiasm for either Trump or Musk, yet. But with Rogan it only takes one convincing guest to change his mind.
What's more, Rogan's main constituency of listeners, young men, appear to be feeling buyer's remorse about Trump, with new polling suggesting the group is swinging away from the president. Where his audience go, Rogan tends to follow.
On his podcast, Harris told his listeners: 'Our society is as politically shattered as it is in part because of how Joe [Rogan] has interacted with information.' Rogan might revel in criticism from progressives, but barbs from his friends are likely to sting. How long Trump can count on Rogan's cuddles and warm wishes might depend on whether his favourite guests begin to ostracize him.
Try Our AI Features
Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:
Comments
No comments yet...
Related Articles
Daily Mirror
38 minutes ago
- Daily Mirror
Greta 'mistreated and mocked' by dancing Israeli officials before deportation
French doctor Bapiste Andre was on 'freedom flotilla' with Greta Thunberg - he said the group were subject to 'mockery' when they were intercepted by Israeli officials An activist on the 'freedom flotilla' boat with Greta Thunberg has said the latter was mistreated by Israeli officials. There "were acts of mistreatment" according to Baptiste Andre, who spoke to French media after the group of 12 were brought to the port of Ashdod. Mr Andre, a doctor, said there were 'no acts of physical violence', but that they were subject to sleep deprivation and 'mockery' by Israeli officials. He said this was 'especially' focussed on Ms Thunberg. 'As soon as [ Thunberg ] fell asleep, the immigration services came to wake her up' he claimed, adding that music was turned loud and members of the immigration services 'danced in front of us'. Adding there was some difficulty for the detainees in gaining access to food, water and toilets, Andre said: 'It took three hours to get a piece of bread.' On X, the Israeli foreign ministry said: 'The passengers of the 'Selfie Yacht' arrived at Ben Gurion Airport to depart from Israel and return to their home countries. Those who refuse to sign deportation documents and leave Israel will be brought before a judicial authority.' Israeli government spokesperson David Mencer said Thunberg was party to ' Instagram activism'. Israeli officials have received criticism after calling the group anti-semitic amid their attempts to bring food to people in Gaza. The UN has warned Gaza's population is at risk of famine. Ms Thunberg was one of 12 passengers on the Madleen, a ship carrying aid to Gaza. Israeli naval forces seized the boat without incident early on Monday about 125 miles off of Gaza's coast, according to the coalition, which along with rights groups, said Israel's actions were a violation of international law. Israel rejects that charge because it says such ships intend to breach what it argues is a lawful naval blockade of Gaza. Speaking upon arrival at Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport, Ms Thunberg called for the release of the other activists who were detained aboard the Freedom Flotilla. She described a 'quite chaotic and uncertain' situation during the detention. The activist added the conditions they faced 'are absolutely nothing compared to what people are going through in Palestine and especially Gaza right now'. 'We were well aware of the risks of this mission,' Ms Thunberg added. 'The aim was to get to Gaza and to be able to distribute the aid.' She said the activists would continue trying to get aid to Gaza.
NBC News
40 minutes ago
- NBC News
Head of controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation refuses to reveal who funds it
TEL AVIV — The new executive chairman for the controversial American-backed humanitarian organization distributing aid in the Gaza Strip refused to reveal the donors who are financing the agency, though he did tell NBC News that to his knowledge the group is not funded by the Israeli government. Johnnie Moore, an evangelical Christian and former PR consultant who advised President Donald Trump during his first term, was appointed executive chairman of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) last week as the organization reeled from the resignation of his predecessor. It has also faced criticism from the United Nations and aid groups for a lack of independence from Israel, which backs the organization along with the U.S. Since it started operating late last month, the group has set up aid distribution sites in Gaza in response to international pressure over serious malnutrition in Gaza, where Israel recently lifted an 11-week complete blockade on food, aid and medical supplies entering the enclave. But regular bouts of deadly violence in and around those sites has also brought increasing scrutiny on the GHF's source of funding and the degree of autonomy it has from Israel. In an exclusive interview with NBC News last week, Moore said it was 'a private foundation.' 'Like lots of private foundations, you know, it doesn't disclose its donors,' he said. 'Anything that we do and anything that we say publicly is going to distract from the mission, and we have one mission, just one mission, which is to feed Gazans.' Pressed on accusations that Israel was financing and controlling the organization, Moore said that 'based upon what I know, this is an independent initiative that is not funded by the Israeli government.' Other questions have also swirled around the GHF, even before it launched four aid distribution points in southern and central Gaza. A day before it began operations in the strip, Moore's predecessor Jake Wood resigned, saying in a letter published by Reuters that continuing to work with the group would compromise his 'neutrality, impartiality and independence.' United Nations agencies and major aid groups that previously ran hundreds of community kitchens and bakeries in the enclave have also refused to cooperate with it, saying it violates humanitarian principles by allowing Israel to decide who receives aid, forces widespread displacement in Gaza, and concentrates distribution in areas that may not be accessible to everyone. Setting up so few sites for food distribution meant crowd control problems were inevitable, according to Ciaran Donnelly, the senior vice president for international programs at the International Rescue Committee, which ran major relief operations in Gaza. 'No aid organization would recommend doing it that way,' he said. Inside Israel, as well, critics have questioned its independence. Last month in front of Israel's legislature, opposition leader Yair Lapid, without providing evidence, accused Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government of funding the GHF through foreign shell companies. And last week, citing unnamed public officials, Israel's public broadcaster, Kan, reported that the Israeli government had sent hundreds of millions of shekels to the group. Israel's government has repeatedly denied it funds the GHF. Any organization 'being used by occupying powers' would not be able to carry out its task according to the humanitarian principles of impartiality and independence, said Philip Grant, the executive director of TRIAL International, a Geneva-based nongovernmental organization that advocates for victims of war crimes. TRIAL International has called on the Swiss government to investigate GHF, whose only registered presence outside the U.S. is in Geneva. While the GHF has said it is working to open new sites, including in northern Gaza, no such distribution points have opened yet, forcing some Palestinians with advanced injuries and disabilities to walk long distances for aid — often through dangerous areas and extreme heat. Such onerous requirements for something as basic as food could amount to war crimes, Grant said, and could even lead to accusations that organizations like GHF are complicit. 'This operation comes with a huge risk in terms of violations of the Geneva Conventions,' Grant said. 'Especially the forced displacement of populations, which, if carried out, would be a participation in the war crime of enforced displacement of civilian population.'
Belfast Telegraph
an hour ago
- Belfast Telegraph
Genocide Convention not considered by Central Bank when approving Israel Bonds
However, Gabriel Makhlouf said the intensity of the conflict in Gaza does put 'a question mark over whether the financial viability' of Israel remains secure. The Central Bank is the designated authority in relation to the sale of Israel Bonds in the EU, and has determined the securities meet the standards of the bloc's prospectus regulations. Israel Bonds have been advertised as supporting the country's economy, and more recently, websites promoting the securities emphasise their role in supporting Israel's military operations in Gaza. Protesters and opposition parties have called for legislation that would give Ireland the power to refuse the sale of Israeli 'war bonds' over human rights concerns. They say the bonds are intended to fund the war in Gaza, while Ireland has an obligation under the Genocide Convention to use all means likely to have a deterrent effect on those suspected of preparing genocide. Demonstrators rallied outside Leinster House on Wednesday as the head of the bank appeared before the Finance Committee, before a Dail vote calling on the Government to take action to prevent the approval of the bonds. Mr Makhlouf said the Central Bank must carry out the statutory tasks and functions it has been assigned. He said it was 'incorrect' to say the bank could refuse to approve the Israeli bond prospectus on the basis of international law rulings and opinions. 'The Central Bank cannot impose sanctions on Israel, for example by refusing to approve the Israeli bond prospectus, in circumstances where the EU has not imposed any such sanctions itself.' Asked by Sinn Fein finance spokesman Pearse Doherty if the Central Bank subscribes to the Genocide Convention, the governor said the authority has to operate within the legal framework allocated to it, but added that the Genocide Convention does not feature in the EU prospectus regulation. Pressed on whether it applied to the bank overall, Mr Makhlouf said 'it applies to the state' and added that, with regard to approving prospectuses: 'In that sense no, it doesn't.' Under similar questioning from Social Democrats' deputy leader Cian O'Callaghan, deputy governor Mary-Elizabeth McMunn said: 'Ireland is the contracting party under the Genocide Convention. It does not explicitly say the Central Bank is a contracting party under the Genocide Convention.' Asked if he believed what was happening in Gaza was genocide, Mr Makhlouf said that was a legal concept determined by the ICJ and no one at the Central Bank could comment authoritatively as experts on that matter. He added: 'But what's clear is that what is happening in Gaza is appalling, horrific.' The governor said everyone at the Central Bank wants to see 'an immediate end to hostilities by all parties'. The Israel Bond prospectus is up for renewal in September. Asked by Labour finance spokesman Ged Nash what factors the bank would be looking for in engagements with Israel at that point, Mr Makhlouf replied: 'I think the intensity of the conflict in in Gaza probably does put a question mark over whether the financial viability of the state still remains secure. 'The fact that the European Union has indicated that it's going to look at its co-operation agreement of Israel, I think that's a factor. The fact that the [Israeli] finance minister has just been sanctioned by a number of countries, that may be a factor.' He said it would be up to Israel to assess whether these factors affect its financial standing when putting together the prospectus, but added that the bank would be required to approve the next prospectus if all matters are completely disclosed. Meanwhile, Mr Makhlouf said national restrictive measures could be imposed by the Oireachtas to stop the approval of the prospectuses, if they were consistent with EU law. However, he said he would find it 'difficult' to say that it is 'possible' to do that in this case, because one member state acting on its own would undermine the whole prospectus regulation. He said he had not taken legal advice on this and added that he was 'not ruling out' the possibility. 'Prospectus regulation doesn't just apply to states, it applies to corporates, it applies to anybody who wants to issue a regulation in certain circumstances. 'So what I'm not ruling out is the possibility that some domestic legislation could prevent an individual corporate being able to issue security in certain circumstances, but this is real hypothetical stuff.' Mr Doherty asked if the Central Bank would deem the ICJ findings a 'risk' for an investor who wishes to purchase Israel Bonds. Mr Makhlouf said the case taken by South Africa against Israel was included in the September prospectus that was approved by the bank. Gerry Cross, the bank's director of capital markets and funds, added that it was the authority's belief that it was articulated and disclosed to the level that is required. Mr Cross later told the committee that the Bank had made approximately 13,300 euro in fees through its work relating to the bonds since October 2023.
