Cardinals manager Oli Marmol on his job status, management style and more

New York Times

16 hours ago

Perhaps no manager began the season in as uncomfortable a position as the St. Louis Cardinals' Oli Marmol.
The Cardinals were in transition. On the field, they were taking a step back competitively to evaluate young players. Off the field, president of baseball operations John Mozeliak was in his last season before being replaced by Chaim Bloom.
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Marmol, hired by Mozeliak in Oct. 2021, is under contract through 2026, but hardly appeared secure. Not with the Cardinals missing the playoffs the past two seasons. Not with Bloom potentially wanting to hire his own manager. And not with two Cardinals legends, potential Hall of Famers Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina, being rather open about their desires to manage.
Yet Marmol, who remains baseball's youngest manager at 39, seems to have only solidified his standing.
'I absolutely think he has. I'm not surprised at all,' Mozeliak said. 'I know there is always going to be a drumbeat out there because of our history, meaning the Pujolses, the Molinas. That's always going to exist.
'But when you think of the modern-day manager and what they have to deal with, Oli does an exceptional job on that. He's growing into this, getting better at it. He's well-respected by his players and staff. He's in a good spot.'
The Cardinals, after parting with their three top relievers at the trade deadline, were two games over .500 until their recent five-game losing streak. During that stretch, they were swept by the New York Yankees while missing two of their best players, first baseman Willson Contreras and infielder/outfielder Brendan Donovan, due to injuries.
In an interview Friday at Busch Stadium, Marmol spoke candidly on a variety of topics, from his job security to his relationship with Pujols and Molina to his efforts to improve his communication with his current players.
His comments were edited slightly for length and clarity.
How do you view your status?
I know people say this. And it sounds cliched. That's why I have a hard time even articulating it.
Dude, I don't worry about it. I never have. And I hope I never do. I'm 39. I've been managing for four years. I have everything I need. I don't ever worry about my status. I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not good at. And I'm comfortable with it.
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I didn't go into this with a goal of, 'Man, I want to manage by this age.' I've always just had my head down, brought value to the people I'm around, love all the people I'm around. And things tend to work out. I know it sounds cliched, but I don't care. I don't. When people talk about, oh, the hot seat, I (don't) give two sh–s. I really mean that. And people who are around me enough come to realize that's as genuine as I can put it.
I've been around people where this clearly, clearly defines them. And I think that's such a bad place to be. I hope my head never gets there. Because then I think you end up doing what's right. Rather than covering your ass, you say what needs to be said. You do what needs to be done. And you don't think of how this impacts me moving forward, as much as, is this the right thing? And I hope I always operate that way.
Have I made mistakes along the way? Absolutely. Would I redo some things? Absolutely. But you don't have that opportunity. You learn from it. You keep moving.
How did you approach the season, knowing the team was in a different place and that Chaim Bloom eventually would take over for John Mozeliak?
They were very clear on the transition. They were definitive in what the roles would be like, for Mo and also for Chaim. For a line of communication, it was clear that anything big-league related, Mo would be the person. Then, a lot of the different systems and infrastructure for our minor leagues, that would be Chaim.
I meet with Chaim quite a bit. Early on, from spring training until about the All-Star break, a lot of it was minor-league related because I did spend a decent amount of time down there (from 2007 to 2016 as a player, coach and manager) when the org was in a good spot. From a minor-league standpoint, he had questions. Anytime he's in town, we have breakfast or lunch. That's been really good.
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I know what I was tasked with at the beginning of the year, as far as what this year was going to look like. You try to win as many games as possible along the way. But you can't miss on what the No. 1 task is: finding out what we have and what we don't have in order to have more clarity as to how we want to move forward at the end of this year.
What have you done to correct the things you're not good at?
The two words I live by with my staff are honesty and curiosity. Those are two words that are extremely important to me. I'll give you the quick version of both.
Honesty to me is saying what needs to be said. Having the conversations that need to be had, and not being afraid of conflict. Everyone is better when you get on the other side of conflict. Not many people like confrontation. But I think there is so much good when you can get on the other side of that.
So, being honest with people, but also carrying myself in a way where others feel comfortable being honest with me. So, like, me being able to walk down those halls and my staff being very comfortable telling me if I'm doing something that doesn't align with my mission. That's important to me.
And curiosity is just always looking for a better way of doing things. Is the way we're doing it because we've always done it this way? Or is the best way to do it? Am I missing something? I'll ask my staff all the time: 'What am I missing?' I'll ask players: 'What am I missing?' There's vulnerability in that. But you get better because of it.
When I took the job in '22, I hired a guy by the name of Michael Gervais. He's a high-performance coach for Steve Kerr with the Warriors, for the Seahawks when Pete Carroll was there. He does a lot of stuff with the CEOs and executives at Microsoft. He's incredible. When I was in the minor leagues, I listened to a lot of his stuff. I never thought I'd have the opportunity to work with him.
It was pricey, but I'd do it all day, every day, because it allowed me to create an infrastructure for how I think, how I process, how I filter decisions and how I handle pressure in a way I probably wouldn't have been able to at my age when I took the job.
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You just reached out to him?
I had a guy who was a mutual connection reach out. I didn't think he'd take me as a client because he was working with a lot of high-profile individuals. But because of my age, and the job I was taking, and a market like this, he said, 'I'd love to do it.' I flew out to the West Coast. I met with him for like four hours. I've never had a conversation that was more real or impactful than that one.
We spent the offseason together creating a process for why you operate the way you operate, how do you want to lead, how do you want those underneath you to experience your leadership. It was incredible. As s—-y as it was, I wouldn't have handled '23 (when the Cardinals finished 71-91) or '24 (when they missed the playoffs again after finishing 83-79) the way I did if I didn't have that.
In what ways have you improved?
You take those two words. The first one, honesty. A lot of times, I can be very direct. That serves me well, especially in a big-boy world that we live in. But the thing I've gotten better at is, it has to be accompanied with some form of compassion. Guys want to know you're going through it with them. If I didn't improve at that, I don't think I'd have the buy-in we're getting this year.
It's good to be direct. It's good for people to know where they stand and not be guessing. But they also want to know when things are hard, are you evaluating me or are you going through it with me? Players now know I'm going through it with them rather than just evaluating them.
Did that change this year?
I wouldn't say it was (snapping his fingers). You start to realize it in conversations. You start to make adjustments. I would say probably halfway through last year, and this year has been the biggest difference, a focus of mine. The staff has always felt supported, that I have their back. They'll never question that.
I had a good relationship with Albert, Yadi, Goldy (Paul Goldschmidt), Waino (Adam Wainwright) — the veterans. You don't have to dance around the truth with those guys. You just don't. They've lived it. They've experienced it. Those relationships were always super-easy for me. People probably would have thought the opposite. A young manager coming in, how are you going to get (their respect)? It was actually the complete opposite for me.
I gained those quickly. But I learned I had to be more compassionate and understanding with the younger guys and bringing them along as they were going through failure, experiencing that sophomore year of, 'The league knows me now. And I'm not doing as well. I want someone to come alongside of me.'
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Was there a light bulb moment?
Not necessarily. It was more, you know, when you're getting quick buy-in, and when it's taking twice as long as you think it should. When I look at some of the guys that are now very bought-in, it had way more to do with my level of communication. I'm an overcommunicator. But if you're direct and you're over-communicating, that sometimes…
… Can be a problem?
Not so much a problem. But you can do that with Donovan. You can do that with (Alec) Burleson. You can't do that with some other guys. I'm picking my spots for that, and then understanding direct is good, but also it has to be accompanied with a little more compassion at times.
Have you improved at game management as well?
I don't worry about having to defend a move as much as I did in '22. I'm going to do what I think is right and have a reason behind it. If people, writers, fans like it, great. If they don't, I have a reason behind it.
There are times you sit there during the game and you want to do something — and any manager who tells you this isn't the case is full of s— — and your mind quickly goes to, if it doesn't work, how are you going to explain it? But you still feel like it's the right move. And sometimes, you shy away from it because it's easier to explain what you would do by the book. I probably tend to think about that less or care about it less today.
You mentioned Albert and Yadi. Those two want to manage. I'm sure they would both love to manage this team. How do you deal with that? And I know Yadi was just here.
I'm not sure how this will be perceived. But my faith is very important to me. If I'm supposed to have this seat, then I'll have it. And if I'm not supposed to have it, there's not a person in the world that can keep me here.
So, I don't spend any time thinking about what if. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. For me to sit here and think I know what's best for my next 10 years would be very naive. I show up. I make sure my staff knows I have their back and our players know I have theirs. We go at this together, and then I do it the next day and the next day. And, at some point, if someone doesn't want me to continue to do it, it will be just fine.
I love AP. I talk to him often. I love Yadi. I just had him sit with me in the dugout (on Aug. 8 and 9, when the Cardinals hosted the Chicago Cubs). I think both of them can be not just good managers, but incredible managers in this league for as long as they want to do it and deal with the criticism that comes with the seat.
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That doesn't impact me in any way. It truly doesn't. I've had people call BS on that, and then the longer they're around me, they're like, 'I feel like you're genuine.' I really am. I know what I bring to the table. I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not.
I'm comfortable with all of it.
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