Disabled pilot responds after Trump blames diversity and inclusion policies for DC crash
A disabled pilot has called President Trump 's suggestion that diversity and inclusion policies contributed to the Washington DC plane crash a "gut punch" to disabled people.
Speaking to reporters on Thursday (29 January), Trump falsely claimed that the Federal Aviation Administration 's DEI principles played a role in the accident.
Miles O'Brien, a CNN aviation analyst and licensed pilot who lost an arm in an accident, responded to Trump's remarks, telling CNN that the FAA 'does not forsake safety in order to include disabilities in the system.'
'I went through every hoop and got over every bar an able-bodied individual would in order to be recertified to fly,' O'Brien added.
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KRISTEN WELKER: With tensions boiling over, a Democratic senator placed in handcuffs. SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ: This is the stuff of dictatorships. KRISTEN WELKER: I'll talk to Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Plus, Steve Kornacki reveals the results of our latest poll. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles; Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of the Cook Political Report; Kimberly Atkins Stohr, Senior Opinions Writer for the Boston Globe; and Stephen Hayes, editor of the Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press. ANNOUNCER: From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. KRISTEN WELKER: Good Sunday morning. There are rising tensions in both the Middle East and here at home. Overnight, Israel launching new strikes inside Iran, targeting key oil and gas infrastructure. 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While across the country tens of thousands of protestors gathered for what organizers called the "No Kings" protest, pushing against Trump administration policies. In Minnesota, those protests were overshadowed by a devastating act of political violence that rocked the community. Authorities say a suspected gunman impersonating a police officer targeted two Democratic lawmakers and their spouses in their homes, killing former Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark. State Senator John Hoffman and his wife Yvette were critically wounded. A list of additional targets was found in the suspect's vehicle, as well as 'No Kings' flyers. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz denounced the political violence and vowed to bring those responsible to justice. [BEGIN TAPE] GOV. TIM WALZ: This was an act of targeted political violence. Peaceful discourse is the foundation of our democracy. We don't settle our differences with violence or at gunpoint. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Joining me now is Democratic Senator from Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press, and my deepest condolences to you-- SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thanks, Kristen. KRISTEN WELKER: --for the loss of your friends and colleagues. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Kristen. And you know, it is really not about any of us. It is this incredible woman that we lost, Melissa Hortman. We think about her family today. Father's Day today. They not only lost their mom, her two kids, they also lost their dad, and her beloved husband, Mark. I just wish everyone in the political world knew this woman like we know her in Minnesota, loved by Democrats and Republicans. We started out together in politics, moms with young kids. And somehow she was able to balance getting to know every door knock, every house in her district while raising two children. Girl Scout leader. She taught Sunday School. And maybe all that juggling made it easier for her as she worked her way up in the legislature and became this extraordinary Speaker of the House, ushering in everything from free school lunch to working with the governor and other leaders to do some landmark legislation on paid family leave. To this year working with her Republican counterpart, when we pretty much had a tied legislature, to get the budget done. That's Melissa Hortman, my friend. And when you think about political violence and the statistics of political violence, you've got to realize the people who are behind it, and a true public servant that we lost. KRISTEN WELKER: Well, we are grateful to you for being here to help us pay tribute to Speaker Emerita Hortman. I know you were at a dinner with her. You were with her just hours before this assassination against her life. And I imagine you must still be in shock. What can you tell us about that? And, do you have an update on the condition of State Senator John Hoffman and his wife? They were also shot. They're in the hospital. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Exactly. So he's another extraordinary person, got into politics because his daughter has spina bifida, couldn't get insurance coverage, and went from school board to the state legislature. Also really well-respected. And what I know about them is that they are hanging in there. His wife was out of surgery first, and she's actually texted some of our mutual friends. And he may face some additional surgeries, but he is also in stable condition right now from what I know. So they had multiple, multiple gun wounds and the first responders were there, the police were there, got them to the hospital, and then had the presence of mind to go over to Leader Hortman's house, and that's where they found this perpetrator, this man who seemed to have no limits in terms of the murderous acts that he committed. I will say one more thing, and that is that at that dinner, it was a big political dinner, everyone was rejoicing, happy. The session's behind them. And that was the last time so many of us saw Melissa and Mark. And the next morning, 5:00 a.m, the governor, Governor Walz, calls me and tells me that we believe that she's no longer with us. KRISTEN WELKER: I can only imagine your shock and your devastation. I do want to talk about this manhunt that is underway. And because it's still active we do want to show our viewers who we're talking about here. The suspect-- SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. KRISTEN WELKER: --according to authorities allegedly impersonating a police officer. That's how they got into these homes. He's been identified by authorities as Vance Boelter. We're showing images of him right now on your screen. He worked for a private security company. What is the very latest on the search for this suspect, Senator? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Well, for a while they believed that he was in one certain area, and he may have been there for a while. So they had thousands of homes in a shelter in place situation. Now they are continuing to look. And so the FBI is asking for the public's help with a $50,000 award. You've got many images of them. To me, the most chilling image is the one where he is apparently wearing some kind of mask. It's a doorbell camera, like so many people have, but it's the doorbell right before he killed our friends. And so that was that image. And then later they saw him with the cowboy hat out and about. And so he is somewhere. They are looking for him everywhere. He is smart. He was able to, you know, impostor a police officer, soup up a car so it seemed like a police car. I know law enforcement has been very clear about this, that people should not approach him, that they should immediately call the tip lines and report. Because we believe he's somewhere in the vicinity and that they are going to find him, but right now everyone on edge here. Because we know that this man will kill at a second. We also know that he is clearly off-balance, from the manifesto on, some of his writings, some of the things that he has said recently, that he is someone that no one should mess with except for law enforcement. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, I want to move on to the motive. Very quickly, you say you believe he's still in the vicinity. So authorities believe he's still in Minnesota, correct? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: He may be. They've also put an alert out in South Dakota. You know, when I mean vicinity, I mean in the Midwest. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Look, all of the victims, you talk about this manifesto, Democratic lawmakers, their spouses. In terms of this manifesto, authorities say other potential targets included names of prominent pro-choice individuals, Planned Parenthood location clinics. What are you learning about the motive for his attacks? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Clearly, this is politically motivated. Our delegation in Minnesota, from the most conservative Republican to the most liberal Democrat, we all joined together, Senator Emmer and I, and others, and said we condemn this political violence. It was politically motivated, and there clearly was some throughline with abortion because of the groups that were on the list, and other things that I've heard were in this manifesto. So that was one of his motivations. But again, they're also checking out, did he have interaction somehow with these two legislators? Is there more to this? And I think for us right now, allowing law enforcement to do their jobs instead of speculating on every angle of where he might have gone. They obviously have information we don't have. And so what we've been trying to do as political leaders is make really clear we will have plenty of time to analyze what happened here, but right now it is trying to report any sighting of this person, and to be very careful, and to listen to what law enforcement says. Because the advice has changed for obvious reasons over time. And that is what we've gotta do right now. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, we're almost out of time, but I have a couple more questions for you. Senator Tina Smith reportedly on that list. Were you on that list, Senator? The manifesto list, who he was targeting? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Yeah. So I just know that they have added security without my request. So I think they're concerned about everyone. I don't have confirmation of that. There's also the manifesto, and there's the list. I think people have to understand that this guy is a murderous, murderous man. He will know no limits, whether you're on the list, whether you're not. He may change what he's focused on, and that's what we're most concerned about right now is that the next person, not a political person, but a person he just encounters. So while I am concerned about all our political leaders, political organizations, my thoughts today are with the families, upholding the memory of Melissa Hortman, praying for the recovery of Senator Hoffman, and then of course finding this man. And that's our number one goal today. KRISTEN WELKER: And I understand that, Senator. I have to ask, though, are you scared for your own personal safety? SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: No. I'm not. I have had threats before, as several of our colleagues have had. And I think one of the things is we don't talk about this stuff much because you don't want to see copycats that copy exactly what they've done, or it gets people going. And so I believe that our local law enforcement and the Capitol police and the like will protect us. But again, my concern is that that's guy's going to come up against just an innocent and try to take their car, try to go into their house right now. Because a lot of the political leaders in our state have received extra protection, but not the innocents out there. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. And I know that you're telling us you have received extra protection as well, which is incredibly significant. Senator Klobuchar, our thoughts are with you and your entire community. And again, our deepest condolences. Thank you so much for joining us. SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thank you very much. KRISTEN WELKER: And when we come back, Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. Joining me now is Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. Senator Paul, welcome back to Meet The Press. SEN. RAND PAUL: Thanks for having me. KRISTEN WELKER: Thank you so much for being here. Unfortunately, I have to start with this horrific news out of Minnesota, this act of political violence, the assassination of a state lawmaker there and her husband, two others injured, in the hospital recovering. Senator, what was your reaction to hearing the news? SEN. RAND PAUL: You know, I think nothing brings us together more than, you know, mourning for somebody else who's in political life, Republican or Democrats. You know, we come together about this. I was there at the shooting in 2017 when Steve Scalise almost died-- just feet away from another young staffer that was shot just next to me. So I'm aware of this. I've been the victim of political violence. I had six ribs broken and part of my lung removed. So, we know about this. We're very aware of it. But our hearts and prayers go out to the families. KRISTEN WELKER: Yeah, our hearts and prayers go out to the families as well. It's been eight years since that attack, that of course, where Congressman Scalise was shot. Thank you for sharing that memory with us. I do want to turn now overseas to the Middle East. In fact, it's an active situation right now. It's our understanding that Iran is sending missiles striking Tel Aviv as we're having this conversation. You've warned President Trump not to get involved in the conflict between Israel and Iran, saying, "A war with Iran would make Iraq look like a skirmish." But have a look at what Senator Lindsey Graham argues should happen if Iran does not come to the negotiating table. He says, "If Iran refuses this offer (of the United States) I strongly believe it is in America's national security interest to go all in to help Israel finish the job." How do you respond to Senator Graham's call to go all in and help Israel finish the job, Senator? SEN. RAND PAUL: Well, his initial response was, "game on," and I don't consider war to be a game. There are hundreds of thousands of people that potentially will now die on both sides. You know, for a couple thousand years we've had this discussion over what is just war. Not only our civilization but other civilizations have had this discussion. And one of the things that many people came to a conclusion was that preemptive or preventative war wasn't just. And so there is that. But there is also the idea that what happens to Iran, you imagine what happens in Iran now. Do they coalesce around their government, even though their government is unpopular? Does nationalism thrive? And you would think that they would probably be less likely to want to negotiate at this time, particularly when they may feel that negotiations were a ruse to put them at ease until the bombing happened. So I think it's going to be very hard to come out of this and have a negotiated settlement. I see more war and more carnage. And it's not the U.S.'s job to be involved in this war. Iraq was a mess. Afghanistan was a mess. And one of the things I like about President Trump is he has shown restraint. And so I think his instincts are to not be involved in this war. But there'll be a lot of pressure from Lindsey Graham and others to get involved in this war. And I hope that his instincts will prevail. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Let's turn now to what we all witnessed here in Washington D.C., the nation's capital, on Saturday. A military parade celebrating the 250th birthday of the army here in Washington yesterday. You expressed some doubts ahead of the parade. President Trump says the parade was to showcase the army's military might, even to inspire a new generation to sign up for military service. Senator, what do you say about that argument? Could the parade have that benefit of encouraging people to sign up and enlist? SEN. RAND PAUL: You know, I'm all for the president appearing and doing enlistment ceremonies at military bases. I've been with the president at Dover to receive home our dead soldiers, and so-- those who have been killed in action-- and to mourn their loss. But I just never liked the idea of the parade because I grew up in the '70s and '80s and the only parades I can remember are Soviet parades for the most part, or North Korean parades. And the parades I remember from our history we're different. You know, everybody remembers that famous scene of the soldier, you know, dipping the girl and kissing the girl in New York in a ticker tape parade. But we were rejoicing the end of war, and we were rejoicing our soldiers coming home. And that absolutely ought to be commemorated and discussed every year, Memorial Day, Veterans Day. But we never glorified weapons so much. And I know he means well. I don't think he means for any of this to be depicted in another fashion. But I'm just not a big fan. And then there is the cost. I mean, we're $2 trillion in the hole and just an additional cost like this, I'm not for it. KRISTEN WELKER: I do want to get to the debt, deficit momentarily, but first, let's talk about those ICE raids that have really dominated the week. We've seen them-- anti-ICE raids really-- across the country. You're the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, which means you have oversight over DHS. I want to play some sound for you from Governor Gavin Newsom. Take a listen to what he had to say about those ICE raids. [BEGIN TAPE] GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM: I was in Oxnard, California yesterday. I met with a 12-year-old boy, tears pouring down his face, his mom and dad snatched by agents. They were working the fields for over 20 years. He doesn't know where they are. He has no family in the United States. He's here alone, a sixth-grader. [END TAPE] KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, do you think the Trump deportation policy has gone too far? SEN. RAND PAUL: Well, you know, I live in a community, Bowling Green, Kentucky, where we have lots of first-generation immigrants. Many of my friends, many fellow physicians, they're new Americans. And I often say some of the best Americans just got here. That being said, that's lawful immigration. I don't think we can allow millions of people to come across the border. It just is transformative, but not in a good way. So I think we should, if anything, maybe expand lawful immigration, but we can't have illegal immigration. We can't have open borders. Now, how we tackle this is a difficult situation because we have California governors like Newsom and the mayor of Los Angeles who are resisting federal law. And if you go all the way back to the Civil War, one of the conclusions of the Civil War, and particularly the civil rights era, is that there are times when the federal government will step in if local officials are resisting the law. So when people are arrested for doing bad things, they're arrested for assault, if you don't check their status and you don't deport them after that, you're disobeying federal law. And I think the one thing that brings us together-- Conservative, Republican, Democrat, Independent-- is I think most people want the people committing crime to be deported. And if it sticks to that, I think we'll be fine. When it extends to children and workers, even the president's backed off a little bit on this. He says now we're not going to deport agriculture or hotel workers and others. And, you know, somebody on the internet this morning said, "Well, all you have to do is you need to change your job and be an agricultural worker now"-- KRISTEN WELKER: Do you support those carve-outs, senator? Do you support those carve-outs? Carve-outs for farm workers, agricultural workers, hotel workers? SEN. RAND PAUL: I'm a big advocate of the Farm Worker Program and worker programs in general. I think he's talking about a carve-out for people who are not in the program. He's talking about people who are illegally doing that work. I think that we should do something. I've been an advocate for a policy such that we can accept more workers. And I've always thought the trade-off would be you don't get citizenship. Everybody's always said, "Oh, we've got to have a pathway to citizenship." What if you don't get citizenship but you get to work and you don't have to worry in fear of deportation? I think actually many people who are here now who are working would probably accept the trade-off. KRISTEN WELKER: You have been one of the most outspoken Republican critics of President Trump's tax and spend bill, what he has called the Big Beautiful Bill. You have said it raises the debt ceiling by far too much. Trump called you, "The toughest vote in the history of the U.S. Senate." Senator, let me ask you, as of today, are you a yes on this bill or a no? SEN. RAND PAUL: Well, I take that as a compliment, and I talked to the president last evening after the parade and we're trying to get to a better place in our conversations. And I've let him know that I'm not an absolute no. I can be a yes. I like the tax cuts. I actually agree with Art Laffer and supply-siders that a lot of times when we cut rates we actually get more revenue. So I don't have as much trouble with the tax cuts. I think there should be more spending cuts. But if they want my vote, they'll have to negotiate because I don't want to vote to raise the debt ceiling $5 trillion. You know, Congress is awful with money, and so you should give them a more restricted credit line, not an expansive one. Yes, the debt ceiling has to go up, but what I've said is it ought to go up three months at a time and then we should have a renewed debate about the debt. We shouldn't put it up $5 trillion and wait two years, go through another election cycle and be almost towards the end of the Trump administration and say, "Oh, whoops, we've added a bunch of debt. We should have done better." I think we should keep talking about it. KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, very quickly, I have two more questions and one minute left. What's it going to take to get you to a yes, specifically, very quickly. SEN. RAND PAUL: Separate out the debt ceiling and have a separate vote on it. And I won't be the deciding vote on this. This is what I tell my supporters. If I am the deciding vote, they'll negotiate. If I'm not, they won't. So far they've been sending their attack dogs after me, and that's not a great persuasion technique. But I will negotiate if they come to me, but they have to be willing to negotiate on the debt ceiling because I'm conservative and I'm not going to, you know, no longer be conservative just because the president wants me to vote for something. KRISTEN WELKER: All right, senator, very quickly, let me get your reaction to Senator Alex Padilla, who interrupted a press conference that was being held by DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. He was handcuffed, wrestled to the ground. The House Speaker says he should be censured. Do you agree? Should he be censured for that? SEN. RAND PAUL: You know, I don't like the images of him on the ground, of being handcuffed, but I also didn't like the images of moms at school board meetings being handcuffed. I didn't like the images of peaceful January 6th protesters or people assembled there being taken to the ground at airports and handcuffed. So that I don't like. But at the same time, the other side to it is, can you rush a stage? Can you rush into a press conference? And I think they honestly didn't recognize him. He rushed the stage. There was sort of a physical tussle. I think it could have ended without, without the handcuffs. But also I don't think there's a complete get out of jail free that, you know, there's no repercussions for rushing the stage and there's no criticism for rushing the stage. So I think it's a complicated story, and I think we can do a better job. But I'm not about to say it's all on one side or the other. KRISTEN WELKER: So you wouldn't be for censuring him? You're a no on censuring him, senator? SEN. RAND PAUL: No, no, no. I'm not for censuring him. I think that's crazy. I'm not for that at all. So. KRISTEN WELKER: Okay. Senator, thank you so much. Senator Rand Paul, thank you for joining us and happy Father's Day. We really appreciate it. SEN. RAND PAUL: Thank you. KRISTEN WELKER: When we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet The Press. SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Good to be with you. KRISTEN WELKER: It's wonderful to have you back on after an incredibly busy week. I again have to start with Minnesota, Senator. And I want to put this into broader context because of course these acts of political violence have been increasing. We recently saw the arson attack against Pennsylvania's Governor Josh Shapiro. We saw that kidnapping plot against Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the two assassination attempts against President Trump. Senator, what role can lawmakers play in trying to end these horrific acts of political violence? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: I think you're right. We have seen over the last eight or ten years this proliferation of political violence against members of both parties. And I think one thing that has really contributed to it is the coarsening of the political dialogue, the way that people refer to their political opponents, the ad hominem nature of the attacks. The flirtation with violence in some of the things, for example, that the president says, they, I think are an encouragement to these reprehensible acts. We all have to acknowledge on both sides of the aisle the need to bring about a more civil discourse but the need to condemn political violence no matter who the target is. And I think one of the things that really hits home here about these latest attacks is those of us that choose to enter public service sadly understand the risk that we are taking now, but those risks and that acceptance is on our own part. And now you see the – the murder and attempted murder of the spouses or family members of electeds. And that just brings it home literally in a very different way. KRISTEN WELKER: It absolutely does, Senator. There's no doubt about that. I do want to turn to really the extraordinary events that we witnessed in California this week. I'll pick up with you on where I ended with Senator Rand Paul. The fact that your colleague, Senator Alex Padilla, was basically tussled to the ground, handcuffed after he had approached the podium of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. He was forcibly removed. Secretary Noem called this "political theater." As I just said, Speaker Johnson called for him to be censured. What say you to that argument that this was nothing more than political theater? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Well, first of all I think it's important for people to realize that he was escorted into that press conference. The door was open. He was escorted in by law enforcement. He identified himself. He tried to ask the secretary a question, a secretary who clearly doesn't want to answer questions about the lawless acts of the Department of Homeland Security that we are seeing in Los Angeles. So he had every right to do so. That's part of his oversight responsibilities. And to be treated that way and to be responded to by saying, "Oh, we didn't know who you are," when it was literally written on his shirt or his jacket, when he was proclaiming who he is, I don't buy it. And for those of us that – that know Alex, and you would be hard pressed to find a more beloved senator on either side of the aisle, respected by members on both sides of the aisle, you know, for – for his intellect, for his demeanor. This is not some rabble-rouser. And to see him mistreated that way and tackled to the ground and shackled that way and in the midst of what we're seeing more broadly in Los Angeles, is just atrocious. And I think all of us that work with him reacted with that kind of revulsion. But sadly this is kind of the direction the administration is taking things with the – the mass deportations, with the calling out of the military in violation of the law. We are just degenerating in terms of how laws are broken in this country. KRISTEN WELKER: Very quickly, Senator, do you think he could have been more effective if he had, for example, asked for a meeting with Secretary Noem? Do you support the way he went about this? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Oh, I think he has asked for meetings, and he has asked for briefings. And of course we don't see any kind of responsiveness of the administration. And it's our constituents in California that are being the subject of a lawless use of the military. In California, we cherish our National Guard. They are the first there to help out during earthquakes and floods and fires. We have a very special bond of trust with the National Guard. And so to see it misused this way, to – to potentially erode that trust. We also venerate the Marines, but to call in the Marines for no other reason, I think, than to add fuel to the fire is a terrible abuse of the military. KRISTEN WELKER: So Senator, let me ask you about that. President Trump's decision to deploy the National Guard, the Marines, despite the fact that California Governor Gavin Newsom said he did not need that, did not want that. President Trump said the city would have, quote, "burned to the ground" without his aid. Do you think local officials had that situation under control? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Yes, I do. And, you know, let's call the president's statement what it is. And that's just a flat-out lie. The idea that Los Angeles would have burned to the ground, it's absurd. These demonstrations were taking place in a multi-block area in a city that is 500 square miles. Our police and our sheriff's office and our highway patrol are more than capable of dealing with this. And if they won't – weren't, then the mayor and the governor would request the help of our guard. That was not done. It was not necessary. And I think this is just Donald Trump doing what he wanted to do in the first administration, which was essentially use the military for domestic law enforcement, to make himself look tough. In the first administration, there were at least a few people in the Cabinet of some independence who could say, "No, Mr. President. That's a lawless idea. That's a stupid idea." But there's no one in this current administration to tell the president, "That's a stupid idea. It will make matters worse." And they are nothing but sycophants, the Stephen Millers and the Kristi Noems and all the rest of them. And so we are seeing this – this terrible escalation, this increasing lawlessness. The district court was right to – to find it lawless. Now that Marines are engaged in an arrest, at least one arrest and detention, then that will be challenged too. And I think that too will be found to be lawless. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. And of course we'll track those court developments very closely. I do want to turn to the Middle East and what Israel calls its "preemptive strike" on Iran. It's an active situation, Senator, as we're having this conversation. Of course, Israel's actions met by Iran's retaliation, which has dramatically raised fears about the possibility of a wider war. Would you support the U.S. military assisting in taking additional actions against Iran's nuclear sites? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Well, first of all, I think Israel has a right to defend itself. And I support what Israel's doing to defend itself. Israel clearly made the calculus at a moment when Iran has been weakened by the incapacity of its militia, of – of Hezbollah and its other actors, the state-sponsored terrorism that it engaged in once it's been weakened. I think they found this the opportune moment to go after a nuclear program that was coming closer and closer to fruition. So I support those actions. And I support the administration's actions in helping Israel defend itself. In terms of whether the administration should go further and engage in direct hostilities against Iran, that's not something I support. Now, I have to caveat that by saying I have not been able to get recently an intelligence briefing on whether Iran is trying to break out to get a bomb. But I think the United States should be very loath to engage in another war after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And there should be a very high hurdle to get over before essentially going to direct war with Iran. So support – defensive support for Israel, yes. In the absence, in my view, of seeing more compelling evidence that this is in the imminent national security needs of the United States, I wouldn't go beyond defensive support. But I want to make sure we're doing everything we can to help Israel protect itself against these incoming missiles, projectiles, drones, and other attacks. KRISTEN WELKER: And – and Senator Schiff, as you know, President Trump issued that stern warning to Iran not to hit U.S. targets. Let me ask you: would your calculation change if Iran were to hit U.S. targets in the region? Would you then condone the United States getting involved? SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Yes, if Iran attacks the United States, when the administration has made it very clear that we have not been part of the offensive operations against Iran. If they should respond by attacking us, then we should respond by defending ourselves. And then I think Iran opens itself up to potential attacks on Fordow or elsewhere. So I second the president's statement that Iran must not attack the United States, our forces, our people, or our interests. KRISTEN WELKER: All right. Senator Adam Schiff covered a lot of ground today. Thank you so much. And Happy Father's Day to you. Hope you have a great day. SEN. ADAM SCHIFF: Thank you very much. KRISTEN WELKER: And when we come back, Steve Kornacki has the very latest results of a brand new poll from our Decision Desk. KRISTEN WELKER: And welcome back. The NBC News Decision Desk is out with a new poll this morning, and here to take us through it, who else, the great Steve Kornacki, NBC News Chief Data Analyst. Thanks for being here, Steve. A lot to unpack in this poll. STEVE KORNACKI: Yeah, Kristen. Some interesting numbers here. I think we'll start with this one. The bottom line we always ask here in this Decision Desk poll, "Do you approve or disapprove of how Donald Trump is handling his job as president?" And it's 45%, 55%. And we did take this same poll a couple months ago and it was 45% approve, 55% disapprove back then, so no change. And by the way, this is a poll, it's a little different. It's an online poll, this is all adults, not just registered voters. But in this poll, consistent over the last couple of months. How about some more specific issues here? And you can see this has been the story of this version of the Trump presidency, his lowest marks continue to be on inflation, cost of living, trade and tariffs. Obviously high-profile, his battles with those elite colleges, 43%, 56%. This is interesting, on immigration and the border, slight majority approval for Donald Trump's actions, though we want to say not all of this poll was taken as these protests were playing out in Los Angeles. So still a bit of a question going forward how that shakes out. But again, we've seen stronger numbers for Trump on that area than every other area of his presidency so far. You could also take a look here, Elon Musk leaving the administration, final verdict there, 44% call it a success, 56% say it was a failure or a partial failure. Then there's the standing of the two parties here. They look about the same. You know, 44% favorable for Republicans, 43% for Democrats. What's interesting here, Kristen, is in Trump's first term when we were taking polls of the two parties, the Democrats were consistently more popular than the Republicans. And it was an advantage that Democrats had heading into those first Trump midterms. You could see, their standing was better than Republicans. Here we continue to see about equal standing in this poll from the two parties. And then I wanted to show you this. This is a bit of a sort of a bank shot one, but I think it may be interesting. We asked folks, "What emotion do you feel here most when you think about Trump's actions as president?" And look, furious, angry, dissatisfied, these are the negative emotions. That adds up to 52%. Satisfied, happy, thrilled, 12%, 8%, 10%. That adds up to 30%. So there's more negative emotion than positive emotion. Now, you could say it's easier to generate negative emotions than positive emotions. But I do want to flag this. There is much more negative energy on the Democratic side-- KRISTEN WELKER: Wow. STEVE KORNACKI: --than there is positive on the Republican side. And the key here is looking forward, the elections later this year, the midterms. Is there an imbalance between the parties there? We've seen it in special elections. This is something, I think, to keep an eye on, too. KRISTEN WELKER: A lot of fascinating findings there. All right, Steve Kornacki, great to see you as always. And when we come back, from an escalating war in the Middle East to rising unrest on the streets across the country, President Trump's challenges are intensifying. The panel is next. KRISTEN WELKER: Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles; Amy Walter, editor in chief of The Cook Political Report; Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe, and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Thanks to all of you for being here. Happy Father's Day Ryan and Steve, I appreciate it. Let me start with you. What are you hearing on Capitol Hill, Ryan, in the wake of this horrific attack in Minnesota? I know obviously you heard Senator Klobuchar talk about the fact that it has really shaken a lot of people. Are lawmakers shaken to their core? RYAN NOBLES: There's no doubt that lawmakers are shaken as a result of what happened here, but they were already worried about the level of violence and the fact that so many of them are targeted because of their roles as public servants. And there's a bunch of issues here. There's a financial issue. There's a logistical issue with keeping 435 members of the House of Representatives safe on a day-to-day business. It's just physically impossible to provide them the level of security that would make sure they're safe all of the time. And our Capitol Hill team reported out a call that took place with Speaker Johnson and members of the Republican conference where they were just not given the assurances that they were looking for, that they would be able to be protected despite what happened here over the weekend. And this is an issue that is not going away, Kristen. There is a real retention and recruitment problem that is connected to keeping lawmakers safe. There are many people who are qualified and would be good representatives who are just saying, "It's not worth it because if I can't keep my family safe, I'm not going to run for office." AMY WALTER: Absolutely. KRISTEN WELKER: And, Amy, where are we that there's a retention problem-- AMY WALTER: That's right. KRISTEN WELKER: --that people are quite literally afraid to serve because they're afraid about their family, their own safety? AMY WALTER: There is no doubt about that, that people who really do want to be good public servants-- and the fact that these were-- also he was targeting state legislators. This is even folks who don't have the same public persona as, say, somebody who's in Washington, who's on TV all the time, who comes onto your show. If you're a city councilperson, usually you have your address published publicly. People know where you live. People know what neighborhood you live in. So this goes all the way down, beyond just what's happening in Washington. It's also a great silencer though too, Kristen, of opinion. Of people taking tough votes, of standing up to their own party or standing up for a certain issue, knowing that this could bring onto them more than just vitriol online, but literally someone to their front door that could harm them and their family. KRISTEN WELKER: Steve, talk about that chilling effect, not only in terms of people raising their hand saying they want to serve, but in terms of speaking out and taking tough votes. STEPHEN HAYES: Yes. I can't tell you the number of conversations I've had with members of the House and Senate who have said to me, "There's just no upside in making my view known here." And, look, we have prime examples of people who have left Congress, left public service because of this. Mike Gallagher, representative from Wisconsin, one of the most effective young lawmakers in the country, substantive, thoughtful. This was somebody who led bipartisan efforts on cybersecurity, on China, ended up leaving Congress because his house was swatted near Green Bay. And he said, "You know, I signed up for this, but my family didn't sign up for this." And I give Mike Gallagher particular credit for acknowledging that that factored into his decision to leave public service because, for every Mike Gallagher, there are ten people who feel the same way but aren't saying it out loud. KRISTEN WELKER: Kimberly, talk about this and the broader backdrop, the tensions across the country. Obviously we saw protests across the country yesterday. We really saw California, L.A. as ground zero, I think, for the tensions over the president's immigration policies. One more data point, I think, in a country that's wrestling with a lot of heated emotions right now. KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Absolutely. I mean, this is an inflection point where we could see from the protests just how many Americans are rejecting this idea, the visuals that we've seen of people being ripped from their homes, their workplaces. Going into schools and other parts of the community. People who-- the majority of Americans want a better immigration system. They want reforms and they want a strong border. But that is not what they want, and that raises those tensions. But I think another thing that we have to talk about, we can't harden every lawmaker's home or office or wherever they go. AMY WALTER: Right. Yes. KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: But we need really strong enforcement, especially when it comes to-- and we don't know everything about this suspect yet. But when it comes to domestic extremism and radicalization, that needs to happen beforehand. What we want is a situation like Gretchen Whitmer, if it's going to happen, where it's thwarted beforehand. And you need a focus on law enforcement at a local, state, and federal level. And we just have not seen that in a very long time. We still have a national security apparatus that's more focused on international terrorism than it is at the threat being grown right here at home. And we need more attention to that. KRISTEN WELKER: And it's extraordinary that there is a manhunt underway as we have this conversation. Ryan Nobles, pick up on the points about this debate over immigration. You saw the poll numbers there that Steve Kornacki had. President's poll numbers getting a little bit softer on that issue. Thought it was notable to hear Senator Paul's response, and really invoked the fact that President Trump floated the idea of maybe there could be carve-outs for farm workers, agricultural workers. RYAN NOBLES: But it also feels like a little bit of deja vu, right? It seems like every time we have this conversation about immigration, there's an administration that takes a heavy hand and goes heavy into deporting and trying to restrict action at the border. They realize the consequences of that, and they suggest some sort of middle ground. In this case, it's the president suggesting that perhaps farm workers and day laborers have some sort of carve-out. They always end up running into resistance from the hard right and the immigration hardliners who believe that there should be no exceptions made. So he's floating this idea. There is a trial balloon. I can tell you that there are conversations happening on Capitol Hill with Republicans and Democrats who want to see some sort of pathway to making this happen. But I've covered a lot of immigration debates that end up getting caught up in the rhetoric that's connected to it. So we'll have to wait and see. KRISTEN WELKER: And, Amy, you have as well. But what's notable about this moment is we are seeing these anti-ICE-- AMY WALTER: Yeah. KRISTEN WELKER: --protests take place across the country. Even though the president, you know, to some extent, this is still a strong issue for him, there's a disconnect there. AMY WALTER: There is. If you look at the president's overall rating on immigration, it's still above water. And part of the reason, if you look under it in some of the polling, is that people think that those getting prioritized for deportation are the bad guys, the criminals. If you look individually at the polling about what people support and who they support deporting, if it's people who've lived in this country for years, don't have a criminal record, most Americans, including like 30-40% of Trump voters say, "No, we shouldn't be deporting them." So once you get into the individual cases, it becomes a much tougher sell, which is why you do have the president saying, "Let's have these carve-outs." If the focus is on them, then his poll numbers are not going to stay as high. KRISTEN WELKER: Steve and Kimberly, with the minute we have left, Steve, first you, I want to highlight this interesting piece from your publication, The Dispatch, saying, the Trump administration's approach to immigration is, "bordering on overkill' and could potentially lose him some support. STEPHEN HAYES: Yeah. Well, we were actually picking up on a point that Amy had made earlier this week, very smart point, that she just made. Look, I think there's reason for the president to be concerned about this. Reuters reported this morning about new numbers, unpublished numbers from ICE suggesting that about a third of the 177,000 people arrested between October and May had criminal convictions, and the rest did not. That's a soft spot for him. KRISTEN WELKER: Yes. Kimberly, Democrats seem to be finding their voice? Fifteen seconds. KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Yes. I mean, well, they have to dig in and say, "Look, this isn't what it's supposed to be." We have a broken immigration system that needs to be fixed. The solution is not strong-arming and pulling people from their homes. The solution is get together, put your grown-up pants on, and find a solution. And that's what has been lacking. KRISTEN WELKER:
