Tucker Carlson leads MAGA's worried warriors in questioning Trump

NBC News

a day ago

As President Donald Trump weighed U.S. involvement in the conflict between Israel and Iran last month, some influential members of his online MAGA army began to question what he was doing.
But few were prominent enough to face a direct response from the president.
'Somebody please explain to kooky Tucker Carlson that, 'IRAN CAN NOT HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON!'' Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform.
'I don't know what Tucker Carlson is saying,' Trump said in response to a reporter's question at the Group of Seven summit the same day. 'Let him go get a television network and say it so that people listen.'
In the course of a few weeks, Trump has faced a surprising level of pushback from prominent supporters as he moved to strike nuclear facilities in Iran, floated a new policy to allow undocumented farmworkers to remain in the United States and castigated allies for demanding more information related to the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Even in that environment, Carlson, regarded as a MAGA standard-bearer, stood out.
'I like Trump. I campaigned for Trump,' Carlson said in an interview, adding: 'But I've got my views. I assume that we will overlap on most things, and I hope that, by the way, the bombing of the nuclear sites in Iran, which I did not support, I hope it works out great, and I'll be grateful if it does. And I'll be the first to say I was wrong for the millionth time in my life.'
In June, Carlson said Trump was ' complicit in the act of war ' as Israel launched attacks on Iran. (Trump later said Carlson ' called and apologized.') One month before, Carlson echoed concerns about Trump's business dealings in the Middle East, saying ' it seems like corruption ' when Shawn Ryan, a guest on his program, raised alarm about new Trump properties in the region. And now, he is taking the administration to task for declining to release additional information about Epstein, with whom Trump had a yearslong friendship before a falling-out.
'The fact that the U.S. government, the one that I voted for, refused to take my question seriously and instead said, 'Case closed, shut up conspiracy theorist,' was too much for me,' Carlson said Friday at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit, where he devoted his speech to the issue. 'And I don't think the rest of us should be satisfied with that.'
Carlson emphasized his personal admiration for Trump but took issue with his response to the furor over the Epstein files. At a Cabinet meeting last week, Trump brushed off growing discontent and said it was 'a desecration' to ask about Epstein after flooding in Texas killed dozens.
'It's not adequate to say anyone who asked [questions] is somehow desecrating the memory of little girls who died in Texas,' Carlson said in his speech Friday, adding: 'I don't care who gives that answer. That is not acceptable.'
Carlson's frustrations represent broader discontent in MAGA world with the policies of the man who brought them together. It's a key moment for the movement, which for the past decade has been largely in lockstep, testing whether it's willing to truly break with Trump and whether anyone besides Trump can shape its direction.
'I was never an important adviser to Trump'
Asked about his direct discussions with Trump, Carlson said he 'certainly had a lot of conversations with him,' though he declined to say when the two men last spoke.
'I'm not a policymaker,' he said. 'I'm just a guy with opinions. I don't work there. I've never worked in any government. I've never taken any money from any politician or any government, and I just have strong views, which, by the way, are sometimes wrong, really wrong. I supported the Iraq War. So my track record is spotty.'
And Carlson said he was unaware whether his influence in the White House has waned in light of his recent commentary.
'I was never an important adviser to Trump,' he said. 'It was always kind of overstated.'
Carlson was center stage among MAGA influencers arguing for the United States to stay out of Iran, a position that has gained popularity on the right as some right-wing influencers have increasingly viewed the U.S.-Israel alliance with skepticism. That stance is also informed by Trump's having promoted similar anti-war and anti-interventionist views for years, even as he has used military force as president. Ultimately, Carlson said, the most important voice arguing the case to Trump for the U.S. bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities was Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
'Turns out a head of state of an important ally has a more compelling message than I do,' he said. 'That seems reasonable to me. I still disagree, but I don't think it's like Trump has changed his views entirely.'
Some around Trump have taken a victory lap given that he ultimately didn't ally with Carlson on military action in Iran.
'The Iran operation was both a shot at the Iranians, but it was also a shot at the restrainers of the administration and at Tucker and everyone else who said the president is never going to do this,' a Trump ally close to the administration said. 'They think he's an ideologue like they are, and he isn't. These guys overplayed their hands.'
Trump's relationship with Carlson has had peaks and valleys dating to his first administration. Most notably, during Dominion Voting Systems' 2023 court battle against Fox News, the judge made public text messages showing Carlson's trashing Trump amid his effort to overturn his 2020 loss, in which he privately said, ' I hate him passionately.'
'He's never been a natural ally of the president,' a second Trump ally said, pointing to the texts.
But the two reconciled during Trump's third run for the White House as both were in exile: Carlson having been ousted from Fox News as part of the fallout over the Dominion lawsuit and Trump facing multiple indictments, including in connection with his role in trying to reverse his 2020 defeat.
When Carlson was forced out of his show in 2023, Trump said he was 'shocked,' adding, 'He's a very good person and a very good man and very talented, as you know, and he had very high ratings.' The strengthening of their relationship led Carlson to campaign for Trump, including in a prime-time speaking slot at last summer's Republican convention.
Given Carlson's stature in the MAGA movement, prominent Trump allies have come to his defense. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., said last month that Carlson 'is one of my favorite people.' Arguing against intervention in Iran, she added, was 'not kooky.'
Steve Bannon, the former White House aide and MAGA media personality, who occupies a perch similar to Carlson's, said the brouhaha between the two men comes during 'a time of turmoil' when Trump is handling a number of crises at once. He said Carlson is 'still one of the leaders of our movement and an incredibly strong, independent voice.'
'Tucker has always worked at this a little more with a jaundiced eye,' Bannon said. 'He came to this movement late. He waited and measured it. He respects President Trump; he supported President Trump. When Tucker took on the ruling class, it was a seminal moment for MAGA — because he did it on Fox prime time. Since then, Tucker has been there for 'America First,' especially when it mattered most.'
More broadly, Bannon said, MAGA influencers and thought leaders have to call out policy decisions that veer from base expectations in hope of ensuring their perspective is represented.
'You've got to represent every day and continue to make sure that people understand, particularly people around President Trump, and sometimes even the president himself, understands where we think core values lie,' Bannon said.
'A dissident figure'
It's not as if Carlson hadn't publicly criticized Trump or his administration before. He similarly sounded the alarm in 2020 when the United States killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani, and he criticized Trump's handling of national protests after Minneapolis police murdered George Floyd later that year. While such pushback isn't new, a person close to Carlson said he has never crossed the line into all-consuming criticism like Matt Drudge or Ann Coulter, other conservative media personalities who have sharply broken with Trump.
'Tucker's not being malicious towards the president at all,' a source close to the White House said. 'You can very easily still support somebody and disagree with a specific policy decision. Agree with him or disagree with him, Tucker is at least coming from a sincere place of love and concern for the president. He just wants the president to be successful and is worried that issues like amnesty, Epstein, Ukraine funding and war in the Middle East could eventually lead to his presidency being derailed.'
Trump maintains high approval ratings with the Republican base, which is informing how he and the White House view the pushback online. An Economist/YouGov survey published Tuesday found that 87% of Republicans approve of Trump's handling of his job so far.
'The president cares deeply about the MAGA base; he is very responsive to them,' a person familiar with the White House's thinking said.
This person pointed to online chatter last week about whether Trump would offer some sort of 'amnesty' after he talked up an effort at a rally to allow undocumented farmworkers to stay in the country, noting that at a Cabinet meeting, Trump was responsive to the concerns and said there would be 'no amnesty.'
'Things like that are notable when thinking about how the president balances the viewpoints he's getting,' the person added. 'And a lot of what he's done recently are direct responses to so many of the campaign promises made to the base.'
A MAGA thought leader described Trump and Carlson as 'two of the great minds of MAGA,' saying the movement wouldn't exist in its current form without either one. This person worried the MAGA perspective was 'getting a little squeezed out of the inner circle' at the White House on several issues of note.
'People are not going to go along with endless war,' this person said. 'And when they see the capitulation on Epstein, it just hurts. The Trump administration made overtures that they were serious about this. But six months in and kind of trying to tie a bow around it, it's just not satisfying. That's not going to sit well.'
No other issue has tested the MAGA base's commitment to Trump like the Epstein files.
For years, many on the right — including some people who are now in the Trump administration — have called for the release of all government documents related to Epstein. Epstein died in custody in 2019, and a medical examiner ruled his death a suicide. He was facing sex trafficking and conspiracy charges.
Last week, Attorney General Pam Bondi released a memo saying the Justice Department's review turned up no 'client list' of powerful men alleged to have participated in Epstein's schemes, enraging the MAGA base, who are calling on her to be fired. Trump's defense of Bondi and his attempts to tell his supporters to move on from the issue have done little to quell the furor.
On Saturday, Trump wrote 'LET PAM BONDI DO HER JOB — SHE'S GREAT!' on Truth Social, adding the United States should 'not waste Time and Energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that nobody cares about.'
In his NBC News interview, Carlson said he now believes the Justice Department actually doesn't have 'much relevant information about Jeffrey Epstein's sex crimes.'
'Rather than just admit that, Pam Bondi made a bunch of ludicrous claims on cable news shows that she couldn't back up, and this current outrage is the result,' he said.
A Republican Senate aide thinks Carlson is actually having a bit of a 'revival' as he carves out distinct space on the right.
'He's more of a dissident figure now,' this person said. 'For whatever else you're going to say, Tucker is just kind of saying what he thinks.'
No recent moment generated more buzz for Carlson than his contentious and combative interview with Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, which put the MAGA divide over the conflict between Israel and Iran on full display. Even with the administration not siding with him, Carlson said he's 'really grateful' that there's significant debate on the right over a litany of policy issues.
As for his assessment of the first six months of Trump's second presidency, he said, 'I think they're trying.'
'The most important thing, not just for Republicans, not even for all the first-time Republican voters who supported Trump, but just for the country,' Carlson said, 'is to make it clear that you're trying to achieve what you said you would achieve.'