Martin Lewis Winter Fuel Allowance cabinet interview
While hosting Good Morning Britain, he seized the opportunity to grill senior cabinet minister Pat McFadden.
"While you're on, one final thing," said the Money Saving Expert, in true Columbo style. "We know you're very close to the prime minister, who last week, said there'd be no change on Winter Fuel Payments.
"Now I know many people talk about increasing the threshold from the very low £11,800, which is what you need to be earning less than to get Pension Credit, which is what gets you Winter Fuel Payments.
"I would like to see that threshold raised, but let's ignore that."
'I'm flabbergasted. You linked Winter Fuel Payments eligibility to Pension Credit which we know is a flawed system. You're sitting here saying we know there's a flawed means test in Pension Credit so why the hell did you link Winter Fuel Payments to a flawed means test?'… pic.twitter.com/JhY9dRo1vF — Martin Lewis (@MartinSLewis) May 14, 2025
He then pointed out the statistics which show the flaws in the current system: "When you came in there were 800,000 people who were eligible for Pension Credit not claiming, therefore earning less than that £11,800 threshold who aren't claiming Pension Credit, so don't get Winter Fuel Payment.
"There are now 700,000 - is that something you find acceptable? 700,000 of the most vulnerable pensioners...is that acceptable?"
Mr McFadden replied: "Well, we made quite an effort on this, and there's been a sort of long term problem of people not always claiming the things to which they are entitled. And then the run up to Christmas, you know, we really went out there, we employed extra people to to do.
"We encouraged people to apply, even if they applied and they they were turned down, they didn't really have anything to lose by applying. But, you know, it's been a long term issue that the entitlement to Pension Credit hasn't been taken up by some of the people that are entitled to..."
Martin interrupted to say: "I'm flabbergasted. I've been campaigning on getting people to be eligible for Pension Credit for getting on for a decade, but you linked Winter Fuel Payments to Pension Credit, which you know is is flawed system.
"You're just sitting here saying 'we know there's a flawed means test to Pension Credit'. So why the hell did you link Winter Fuel Payment to a flawed means test? What you're saying makes it worse."
Undeterred, Mr McFadden, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and MP for Wolverhampton South East, continued: "I don't think it makes it worse. We chose that level because that was a level where people get are entitled to extra help claim it. Will we encourage them to claim it as much as we possibly can. That was the level where we thought people the need was greatest, that sort of level of income. But of course, we always want people to claim the benefits to which they are entitled. Some people just don't want to claim."
The benefit was previously available to almost everyone in the UK who was of state pension age to help cover their heating costs. But from last winter only those on Pension Credit or means-tested benefits will get the Winter Fuel Payment - £200 or £300 for people aged over 80.
Recommended reading:
Winter Fuel Payment debate has boosted petitions calling for change
The local elections debate has also boosted petition calling for the government to rethink changes to the Winter Fuel Payments, which has now been signed by more than 150,000 people
The petition was started by pensioner Carole Webb, and can still be signed on the Change site. It says: "I am a pensioner who will be critically impacted by the decision to revoke the winter fuel payments. The abrupt loss of £500 per year will burden me with the necessity to work additional hours, despite being 68 years old, in order to make ends meet.
"Like me, countless pensioners throughout the UK were relying upon these payments to help manage the cost of living during the colder months. As per the latest statistics from Age UK, over 12 million people, which constitutes around one in five people in the UK are aged 65 and above (Age UK, 2020).
"This policy change therefore, negatively impacts a significant part of the community resulting in undue stress and hardship. The reinstatement of winter fuel payments for pensioners should be considered a priority - not just for me, but for the millions of others whose health and well-being depends on it.
"We firmly urge the government to review and rectify this decision. Your support through a signature can drive this change."
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