The Wirecutter Show Episode 40: Sunscreen Demystified!

New York Times

14-05-2025

NANCY: Fun fact, the Banana Boat face sunscreen and the Banana Boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Caira?
CAIRA: Mm-hmm. But they will charge you extra. If you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen, they will charge you extra for that, so look at it.
CHRISTINE: That's a hot tip.
I'm Christine Cyr Clisset.
CAIRA: I'm Caira Blackwell.
ROSIE: I'm Rosie Guerin, and you're listening to The Wirecutter Show .
CHRISTINE: This episode is called: Sunscreen Demystified!
ROSIE: Hello, hello.
CHRISTINE: Hi.
CAIRA: Good morning.
ROSIE: Today's topic, sunscreen.
CHRISTINE: Oh, my gosh.
CAIRA: My favorite subject.
CHRISTINE: It is truly a wonderful topic. I love sunscreen.
ROSIE: I have been patting myself on the back for the last couple of years, because I've really upped my sunscreen, my facial sunscreen game.
CHRISTINE: Yeah.
ROSIE: But also my body sunscreen.
CAIRA: That's amazing.
CHRISTINE: Are you wearing it every day?
CAIRA: Mm-hmm.
CHRISTINE: Like, multiple times a day?
ROSIE: This is private. I am reapplying it on my face. I'm wearing it every day. It's really important. I'm trying to keep this youthful glow.
CHRISTINE: I mean, you're doing a great job. What kind of sunscreen do you like to wear?
ROSIE: I actually wear the facial sunscreen from Trader Joe's that Caira recommended to me, and I love it.
CAIRA: I love that one.
CHRISTINE: That's right, because Caira, you are our resident facial sunscreen expert.
CAIRA: I am.
CHRISTINE: You've written Wirecutter's Guide to Facial Sunscreens. You know quite a bit. I'm partial to Korean sunscreens.
CAIRA: The best.
CHRISTINE: I love them. They tend to be lighter. They're very effective. I'm a little obsessed with them.
CAIRA: No, I love the Korean sunscreens, but it's just that they're more expensive and harder to get.
CHRISTINE: Yeah.
CAIRA: Unfortunately.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, you sometimes have to order them from Korea.
CAIRA: Yeah, but you guys, we're not the norm in terms of how much sunscreen we're wearing and how often we're wearing it. Lots of people right now are probably thinking, "Oh, it's getting warmer outside, so I need to start wearing sunscreen again," which is not what's supposed to happen. You're supposed to wear it all year round, rain or shine. There was a national survey done in 2023 that found that of those who participated, only 13.5% actually wear sunscreen on a daily basis.
CHRISTINE: I want to know who these people that participated were. Were they living under a rock or something like that?
CAIRA: Maybe in the really rainy climate. But yeah, sunscreen is for all day every day.
CHRISTINE: We've done a lot of sunscreen testing here at Wirecutter. We've tested all types of sunscreen. We are going to have Nancy Redd, who is one of our senior health writers, and she has tested a ton of body sunscreens, and so she's going to come on and talk with us about how you should be applying sunscreen, what you should be looking for in your sunscreens, de-mystifying all the terms you see on the bottles, and even some of the terms you don't see on the bottles, and you just kind of have to know, and we're going to really get into it with her.
CAIRA: That's right. So we're going to take a quick break and then when we're back, we're going to speak with Nancy about all of the complicated things about sunscreen that may have been stumping you. Be right back.
Welcome back. With us now is Nancy Redd, who's a senior staff writer on our health team, who covers everything from sunscreens to electric toothbrushes and blood pressure monitors. She's also a New York Times bestselling health author and recently published her latest book, the Real Body Manual, Your Visual Guide to Health and Wellness. And she's been covering sunscreens at Wirecutter for over five years.
CHRISTINE: Nancy, welcome to the show.
NANCY: Thanks for having me. I love sunscreen.
CAIRA: I do too, Nancy. That's why I am so happy to have you here. And it probably won't be surprising to some people that we're doing a sunscreen episode as we approach summer, but I think that something that people may not know is that sunscreen should be worn year round, rain or shine. And I know that I fight to get my brothers, my parents to wear sunscreen at any time. So Nancy, who exactly is sunscreen for?
NANCY: Well, if you're breathing, if you're over six months old, then you need sunscreen. Basically, everyone all year round should slather themselves with the stuff.
CAIRA: So when you say slather, do you wear it kind of like a lotion or is it something that you only put on your face?
NANCY: It's a all over thing, right? Any part of your body that is remotely exposed to the sun, whether it is your toes or your forehead, then you definitely need to wear sunscreen. And sometimes you can think, "Oh, well, that sounds overboard," but people who know know that you can get skin cancer anywhere from your scalp to your toenails. So think of it like you just said, like a lotion, where you want to make it part of your daily hygiene routine, and sometimes multiple times a day in some climates.
CHRISTINE: The cancer scare part of it is very real, but Nancy, just to be completely candid, because I'm very vain, I think the reason I wear sunscreen is because of the anti-aging part of it.
NANCY: Oh, totally. As an African-American woman, coming into this job in 2019, I did not think of sunscreen as something as important to my daily repertoire because of the adage, "Black don't crack," but it can brown. Brown can brown. And when you brown, you are subject to issues like aging. You are subject to issues like premature wrinkles, as well as the medical issues of skin cancer and damage. It's the best thing you can do for yourself, from a health standpoint and a vanity standpoint. It helps to protect against certain skin cancers. It diminishes hyperpigmentation, and it does help to prevent wrinkles from ultraviolet, aka UV ray damage.
ROSIE: So Nancy, you're standing in the sunscreen aisle at the pharmacy, at the store. There are tons of brands. There are so many SPFs, broad spectrum, other jargon. I think it's really hard to tell what is marketing and what you really need to pay attention to. So can you start at the beginning? What is SPF? What is the minimum you'd recommend?
NANCY: SPF itself stands for sun protection factor. Sun protection factor is how well a sunscreen protects against UVB rays, okay? You can actually find sunscreens that are marked SPF 5, 50, and even 100.
Now, the minimum that experts recommend is SPF 30, okay? And when you look at the label, it will say broad spectrum, hopefully. Now, broad spectrum means that the sunscreen is shown to protect against both UVA and UVB rays, so both of those. Anything that is more than sun protection factor 30 only marginally increases your protection. However, most of our body picks are SPF 50 and above.
ROSIE: Why?
NANCY: Well, because user error, such as not applying enough sunscreen to begin with and also not reapplying the required amount as often as directed.
ROSIE: So we're going to get into that in a minute. I'm curious, SPF 70 and SPF 100, does that mean you have to reapply it less often than an SPF 5?
NANCY: No. It's just like whether you eat a hamburger or whether you eat a gourmet five class meal, you probably are going to need dinner the next day. You should apply the sunscreen according to the directions. We will almost always say every two hours or as needed. So if you are in the burning sun, perhaps you want to try to reapply more often than if you were in an office job and only go out every few hours or so.
ROSIE: And Nancy, when you say UVA and UVB, what do we mean by that?
NANCY: Both UVA and UVB rays are types of ultraviolet radiation from the sun. I love how an expert once described it to me as the A is for aging, and the B is for burning, but both can cause skin cancer, so that's very important. I think sometimes people think, "Oh, well UVA is just about aging. It's just about vanity." But no, no, no, no. UVB is known for sunburn. UVA is known for aging, but both can lead to skin cancer.
CHRISTINE: Beyond SPF, there are a couple different categories of sunscreen, and the terms always really confuse me. So there's physical sunscreen, and that's sometimes called mineral sunscreen. And the second category is chemical sunscreens. Can you just break down what the difference is between the mineral and the chemical sunscreens?
NANCY: The active ingredients in mineral sunscreens act like a barrier, like a physical barrier between you and the UV light. When you put a mineral sunscreen on your body, it's like scattering the rays before they reach the skin surface, right? It's like bouncing off.
The active ingredients in chemical sunscreens absorb the UV light, so they act in very different ways. Sometimes a sunscreen wants to both deflect and absorb, so they'll have a mix of both mineral and chemical active ingredients, like a double whammy, if you will, and those are referred to as combo sunscreens, combination.
CAIRA: And can you explain why anyone would choose one over the other?
NANCY: Well, generally speaking, mineral and chemical sunscreens are equally as effective when they're applied correctly and when they're applied often enough, and this is why my experts unanimously say, whether they are doctors or people in the field, the best sunscreen is the one you will wear, because one caveat with a mineral sunscreen is that many of them tend to be more difficult to rub into the skin and they can leave a white cast. But mineral sunscreens often are preferred by people with highly sensitive skin because the ingredients within are often less likely to irritate skin.
Now, chemical sunscreens, they are often much easier to rub in and they usually absorb a lot better into the skin. They're essentially invisible. But some people might not be totally comfortable with the idea of chemical sunscreens because of the perceived harm to their health.
Now, this is very important at this moment to say that the FDA, which regulates sunscreens that are sold in the US as a drug, is working very hard with sunscreen makers to determine the safety and efficacy of a dozen chemical active ingredients.
Now, in the meantime, there's no reason to stop using any sunscreen. Whatever sunscreen you have, use it. And I'll personally be honest, having covered sunscreen, hundreds of bottles of sunscreen over the last five and a half years, mineral sunscreens have gotten much better. Our mineral picks have become increasingly cosmetically elegant, which is the fancy term for, "They look good on your skin." Honestly, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a quality mineral sunscreen and a chemical one after about 15 minutes, which is usually how long it takes for the lotions to fully dry down on the skin. That's why one of the instructions on the back of sunscreens usually are, "Apply 15 minutes before going off into the world."
CHRISTINE: I was wondering that because I always kind of assumed that the mineral sunscreen, because it was this physical blocker, if you put it on, then you were good to go immediately, but that's not the case. Like with any sunscreen, you really should be waiting about 15 minutes before you go out into the sun.
NANCY: If there's one thing I have learned at this job, follow the instructions. They're there for a reason.
CHRISTINE: Read the manual, read the instructions.
NANCY: Read the manual. Make the most of the products you buy by following the directions.
ROSIE: Nancy, you've said they've gotten better aesthetically. Is that true even for us brown folks?
NANCY: Oh, I totally understand, but you're operating with an old textbook. The new news is these very cosmetically elegant sunscreens are just beautiful. Our picks for mineral sunscreens, they are absolutely gorgeous on the skin, and leave, no, if not, almost no, white cast. I mean, some of my favorite things to do are to go and look at the reviews of our top picks and see all of the brown people who are like, "Oh my God, a mineral sunscreen I can actually wear." And I feel like my work is making a difference in the world.
CAIRA: I haven't had the chance to try the new pick yet, Nancy, but I will say there is a caveat to the really nice mineral sunscreens, right? They're just not cheap.
NANCY: They're not cheap. Oh, let me tell you, being bougie on a budget with sunscreen is rough, and it's very disheartening to me. I take into consideration with our sunscreen guide just how expensive it is to take care of yourself. So yes, mineral sunscreens tend to be a factor of seven or higher, more than chemical sunscreens.
CAIRA: Seven times more expensive?
NANCY: So for example, my favorite chemical pick sunscreen in our traditional sunscreen guide is the Equate Sport giant bottle, which is the Walmart brand. It's the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested. It's less than 40 cents an ounce. It comes in this amazing jug. If I say to people, "Hey, do you want to try this Equate Sport giant bottle of sunscreen?", there will be some wrinkled noses.
However, that's why I do brand concealed testing, and almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it, even more so than a lot of our more expensive sunscreens that we like.
Now, let's compare that to my new SPF bestie, which is Badger's SPF Adventure Mineral Cream. This is the new runner up to Thrive. These are mineral sunscreens. Badger's is fragrance free. It feels great. It looks great. It's only four ingredients, zinc oxide, sunflower seed, beeswax, and vitamin E, but it's $6 an ounce. Okay, let's compare $6 an ounce to 40 cents an ounce. So if you're on a beach day and you're expecting to put an ounce of sunscreen, which is about a shot glass's worth on your body like six times a day, six times six, that's $36 of sunscreen a day. That's not tenable for the average individual.
ROSIE: So chemical, mineral, we talked about these two different types of sunscreens. Sometimes it's not clear in bold letters on the bottles what brand is what. How can you tell?
NANCY: You are correct. It is often difficult to tell. So you're not often going to be able to tell the whole story from the front of the bottle or the tube. You're going to need to turn around and check the active ingredients on the back of the bottle or tube. Now, in a mineral sunscreen, there will only be two active ingredients possible, either/or or a combination of zinc oxide and titanium dioxide.
Now, chemical sunscreens, there's so many active ingredients and they've all got funny names like avobenzone or homosalate or all kinds of long-named ingredients. But basically, if you see anything other than zinc oxide or titanium and dioxide in the active ingredient section, it's a chemical or combination sunscreen. If you see zinc oxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen. If you see titanium dioxide only, it's a mineral sunscreen. If you see zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, what is it, Caira?
CAIRA: A mineral sunscreen.
CHRISTINE: There will be a quiz for everyone at the end of this episode.
CAIRA: I always... I mean, whenever I was doing the facial sunscreen testing, I would still get duped sometimes. I thought I was buying an all-mineral sunscreen, but then I would really look at the ingredients and realize, "Oh crap, I actually bought a combo," because they won't say it on the bottle anywhere.
CHRISTINE: On the bottle. You have to look at the ingredient list.
CAIRA: You really do.
CHRISTINE: Yeah.
CAIRA: But as Nancy said, look at the label, and if you can't pronounce any of the words on it at all, than it's a chemical.
CHRISTINE: Then it's chemical.
CAIRA: On the other hand, if you look at it and it only says zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, then it's a mineral.
ROSIE: And we're specifically talking about active ingredients, because there will necessarily be other ingredients, like fragrance and things like that, but active ingredients, that's what we're looking for.
CAIRA: It'll be at the top of the ingredients box.
ROSIE: Got you.
NANCY: Absolutely. And I also can get duped. Some sunscreens use vague language, like, "Mineral plus," or, "reef lovin", so it's always really good to checkrr the ingredients. Like a lot of the more inexpensive sunscreens that only use zinc oxide or titanium dioxide, they often won't call themselves mineral sunscreens. They'll call themselves baby sunscreen, which I find interesting, right. I mean, I treat myself like a baby. I like to wear no added fragrance items. I like to have fewer ingredients. So I always find that really interesting.
CAIRA: Right -- the only difference between baby sunscreens and regular sunscreens is that baby ones often avoid harsher ingredients, like you're saying Nancy. But grown ups can certainly use sunscreens marketed towards babies. And babies over 6 months old can use sunscreens that aren't marketed for them.
NANCY: Yes.
CAIRA: And the reason we're saying 6 months and older is because babies that are younger than that are more susceptible to the side effects of sunscreen. So the best advice we can give you is just to keep your baby out of the sun altogether.
CHRISTINE: Nancy, I like to use Korean sunscreens and Japanese sunscreens. These are kind of different sunscreens than are available here in the United States. They have different active ingredients.
NANCY: Well, Christine, I didn't know that you walked on the wild side like that. I didn't know I was in the presence of a felon.
CHRISTINE: Oh, shh. Don't tell anybody.
NANCY: Okay. I don't know. Big brother could be listening to our podcast, and so therefore, I am going to stick to the fact that only sunscreens containing FDA approved active ingredients are okayed for sale in the United States.
CHRISTINE: Well, I did buy my last batch in Japan, so...
CAIRA: Straight from the source.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, straight from the source. But I mean, there's definitely sites that you can buy these sunscreens through.
NANCY: Oh, it's easier than ever to purchase imported sunscreens, and many people do. And that's because the FDA hasn't approved any new sunscreen ingredients in nearly three decades now. We are trying, but trying is not results at this moment. And so other countries like the ones you mentioned, Japan, Korea, they've approved a variety of sunscreen filters that are reported to outperform FDA-approved active ingredients in terms of protection, in particular, UVA protection. And what does the A stand for?
CHRISTINE: Aging.
CAIRA: Aging.
NANCY: Exactly. Right. So a lot of people, like Christine, who has admitted her vanity, like to seek out products that pertain to their interests and also help them prevent skin cancer. You're not alone, Christine.
CHRISTINE: And what about European sunscreens? Those can also have different active ingredients than what you can find in the States, right?
NANCY: Absolutely, and I have spoken with the FDA. Everybody wants a solution. It's just hard to come to. One of the experts I've spoken to used the term, "Quagmire."
CHRISTINE: For the European sunscreens, we've talked a bit on this show about how La Roche-Posay is a pharmacy brand that you can now get in the States, and they sell a pretty popular sunscreen line. Is the sunscreen that's available here from La Roche-Posay, does it have those same active ingredients in Europe, or is it a different sunscreen they're selling here in US pharmacies versus what you would buy, say, in France?
NANCY: If it is on the shelves in American stores, you can best believe it only has either the two active mineral ingredients that the FDA has approved, one of the chemical active ingredients that the FDA has approved, or a combination of the two. The fancy brands that are sold in America, there's not a single chemical active ingredient that has been approved since 1999. So there's nothing new.
ROSIE: Okay, quick recap with sunscreen, you got to be wearing it all year round every day all day. You got to be wearing it in the snow, in the rain, in the sunshine, all four seasons. And you got to be looking for SPF 30 or above, ideally. You also can consider your choices, chemical sunscreen, mineral sunscreen, or maybe a combo. Mineral sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients, and those act like a physical barrier between you and UV light. Chemical sunscreens are going to contain active ingredients that absorb UV light, and again, the biggest slam dunk takeaway so far, sunscreen all day, every day.
CHRISTINE: We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll discuss some of the most surprising things that you have found, Nancy, in your sunscreen reporting, including what you should know about quote reef safe sunscreens, how much you should be wearing, other things you can do to protect yourself from the sun. We'll be right back.
ROSIE: Welcome back. So, Nancy, in addition to 'broad spectrum', another term I've seen on bottles of sunscreen is reef safe. What does that mean? And is that something we should be gravitating toward?
NANCY: Okay, well, step one, some sunscreens may be marketed as reef safe, okay, and there's many definitions that exist for this term. Regulations vary location to location, but there is no such thing as a totally reef safe sunscreen. Only reef friendly, or I like to say reef safer.
But the truth of the matter is reefs are suffering because of some sunscreen ingredients. Okay? Some sunscreen ingredients can be harmful to marine life, and marine life includes coral reefs. So if you're going into a place with reefs, like Hawaii, for example, you need to be using a very specific kind of sunscreen when you're going into the ocean. So what you need to do is look for sunscreens that utilize non-nano active minerals. So you should be looking for non-nano titanium dioxide or non-nano zinc oxide in a mineral sunscreen. And essentially, the particles of titanium dioxide or zinc oxide aren't small enough to be easily absorbed or ingested by marine life.
CAIRA: Right. And really, the research says non-nano particles are thought to be better than any other sunscreen ingredients, but they're still not doing zero harm. So the safest choice for marine life is to wear sun protective clothing in the ocean, like rashguards, and no sunscreen. But if you want sunscreen – go with something non-nano. And Nancy, what are your recommendations in that category – of 'reef safe-er' sunscreens?
NANCY: Okay, so I love our picks so much. Anyone who's looking for sunscreen to take with them on their next fabulous trip, I recommend three brands, or we, as a collective, because contrary to popular belief, this isn't just me sitting around rubbing sunscreen on my body. I test these things on so many people a year. I test them on everyone from my mom with her older, darker skin. I test things on my brother with his beard. I test things on my children, my family, my colleagues, and I just had an amazing pool day where we all got together and tested different sunscreens. From all of this very careful look-and-feel conversation, we recommend three reef safer brands: Thrive, Think Sport, and Badger.
CAIRA: Where was my invite to this pool party?
NANCY: Girl, you have got to come back to Los Angeles.
CHRISTINE: What did the panelists like the most this year?
NANCY: Okay, so this has been a really fun year. Like I said, every year the sunscreen gets better and better. We did a ton of brand concealed evaluations where we focused on look and feel.
So we've got our tried-and-true's. For a few years now, Thrive, which is a reef friendly mineral sunscreen. The beloved sunscreen that is Banana Boat Light As Air. Now, it's a chemical sunscreen, but it's a great one. I mean, it dries down. Caira, you can back me up. It's got a great dry down.
CAIRA: Yeah, it does.
NANCY: Dry down is the fancy way of saying how does it feel on your skin after 15 minutes? Is it tacky? Is it greasy? Do you feel it? And it truly is light as air. Fun fact, the Banana Boat face sunscreen and the Banana Boat body sunscreen is the exact same sunscreen, right, Caira?
CAIRA: Mm-hmm. But they will charge you extra. If you don't look at the label and you buy the face sunscreen, they will charge you extra for that, so look at it.
CHRISTINE: That's a hot tip. I like that.
NANCY: I know. Okay, and then of course, I've already talked ad nauseum about my favorite long-time pick, the Equate Sport giant bottle, which is the cheapest sunscreen we've ever tested, at less than 40 cents an ounce. But almost everyone who wears chemical sunscreens falls in love with it. The caveat is it does smell like a medicine cabinet-
CAIRA: Lovely.
NANCY: ... When you first put it on. Okay? But that is the price you pay to have a jug of sunscreen for $13. Okay. Now, like I said earlier, my new SPF bestie, I'm telling you guys, Badger's SPF 50 Adventure Mineral Cream is the new runner up to Thrive in the Reef Safe Guide. Like I said, it's fragrance free. It feels great. It looks great, but $6 an ounce. I'd be blessed whoever has that in their budget.
CAIRA: Now that we've got a basic understanding of sunscreen and how it works, I want to talk to you about the things people may be doing wrong with their sunscreens.
See, I learned so many surprising things when I was working on the Wirecutter Guide for Face Sunscreen, so I kind of wanted to reveal to the people some of our findings in the form of a game. So we're going to give you a scenario, and you're going to tell us what's wrong with this picture and explain why. Are you ready?
NANCY: I'm ready.
CAIRA: Okay. Scenario one: on a hot summer day, I'll dab a little sunscreen on my face and my body when I go outside.
NANCY: I mean, would you drink a thimble full of water if you felt dehydrated? So, no, you should be applying at least an ounce of sunscreen to your whole body if you're going to be exposed to the sun.
Now, what an ounce look like? People say a shot glass full. Basically, fill your whole palm full, divide it in two, and slather that all around your body, making sure to get all of the crevices and creaks and crannies. And when in doubt, put more on. I would rather be slightly more greasy than to not have a protected spot.
CAIRA: Yeah, when I was working on sunscreens, my motto became more is more, because you can never have too much, only too little.
ROSIE: Okay, Nancy, scenario two: I slather sunscreen all over my face and body right before I go out, and I'm set for the day.
NANCY: Now, this is actually something I also learned in my five and a half years here, because let she amongst us who has not just slathered once and thought they were done for the day, throw the first bottle of sunscreen, because I did not realize that its efficacy wears off, or it wears off. So you should be reapplying sunscreen approximately every two hours or more often, especially if you're swimming or sweating. I recommend setting a phone timer, continue to reapply. Just like one glass of water isn't enough in the morning. You need to drink water throughout the day. One application of sunscreen is also not enough.
CAIRA: Okay, next scenario. It's the dead of a gloomy winter, and I'm all bundled up, all the time. So the only area of skin exposed is my face, so I don't wear any sunscreen.
NANCY: That's the part that many people care about most. So I definitely would suggest that you wear sunscreen on that exposed skin. And what a lot of people don't realize is often winter sun with the reflection of the snow can be even harsher on your skin. So definitely still wear sunscreen in the winter on that exposed skin. At least half a teaspoon of sunscreen on your face, neck and ears. Don't forget your ears. Don't forget behind the ears. Don't forget inside the ear. Just get your ears, people.
And like you said, Caira, as you learned when you did the Face Sunscreen Guide, more is more.
CAIRA: Yeah. Also, half a teaspoon can be kind of hard to measure out when you're just slathering sunscreen on your face. But what I learned is that if you put out just your index in your middle finger and you line those two fingers with sunscreen, that should be enough for that entire area.
ROSIE: There you go. Okay, here's another scenario. What if I'm at the pool and I use spray sunscreen to get all of my hard to reach nooks and crannies? What do you think?
NANCY: I think that you probably didn't get all the hard to reach nooks and crannies because we don't really recommend any spray sunscreens. We totally understand their appeal.
So over the years, we've asked many experts about spray sunscreens unanimously. They're like, "Spray sunscreens are not a good choice." And that's for a couple of reasons. Number one, you might be thinking it's getting those nooks and crannies, but it's not. A lot of the sunscreen sprays away in the wind. And the funny thing is, to get the sunscreen onto your skin, even after you spray it, you still have to rub it in so you're not even skipping a step. You actually are adding a less effective step by using spray sunscreen. Plus, if you can smell the spray, you're inhaling it, and experts tell us that that poses a potential health risk.
CAIRA: Okay, Nancy, after I wash my face in the morning, I apply my sunscreen first and then my moisturizer.
NANCY: Well, that's better than no sunscreen. So step one, I give you an A for effort, but I give you a B for these steps, because our experts always tell us that sunscreen should be the last step in your skincare routine. We wash our face, we do our skincare, and then you apply the sunscreen, let it set, and then put on your makeup if you're going to wear any.
CAIRA: Right.
ROSIE: Okay. I've got another scenario for Nancy. I'm wearing a foundation with SPF 30 in it, so I don't have to wear sunscreen. True?
NANCY: Not true, because of the parameters around how much sunscreen is enough. So you'd need to use a lot of makeup. Half a teaspoon is more foundation than most people would normally wear in order to get the full SPF 30 protection. So still wear your sunscreen. There's no harm. It would be difficult to wear enough makeup to effectively get the full SPF 30 sun protection.
ROSIE: So again, if you happen to get a little bit more, it's Caira's more is more adage.
CAIRA: Always more is more.
CHRISTINE: Okay, I'm going to take the last one. So let's say I don't trust that sunscreen actually works, and I think it'll do more harm than good to my health, say, like, the chemicals will absorb into my skin and cause cancer, so I don't wear it at all.
NANCY: Well, we know Christine doesn't believe this because she's hopping planes to Japan. But of course, we all know that's not true. However, it's understandable how people can get the wrong idea. Everybody makes the choices they want to make in their life. We here at Wirecutter think it's very important to wear sunscreen. It is possible to find a sunscreen that should work for you, but if you're just like, "Nope, absolutely not," you're going to have to be dedicated to wearing sun protective clothing.
Now, sun protective clothing is amazing. You've all seen people with those big old floppy hats, the masks, the jackets, the ponchos, the umbrella. Kudos. If that's the life you choose to live, you're still protecting yourself from the sun. UPF clothing is what you're going to want to look for. You're going to want to look for ultraviolet protection factor.
Now, UPF is to fabric what SPF is to sunscreens. And there are some specifically manufactured UPF clothes, like rash guards for surfers. All clothing offers some protection against UV rays, but not all fabrics are protective ones like that are specifically manufactured. So you're going to want to look for thicker, darker fabrics that are more protective than light thin-colored ones. And if you can find a looser fit that's more baggy, that's not skin tight, it's more protective.
CHRISTINE: All right, that's good to know. I will not be wearing my Eileen Fisher middle-aged lady look to protect myself from the sun. I will be wearing polyester bag over my body, right?
CAIRA: Yeah. With an umbrella.
CHRISTINE: I think I saw one on the runway this fashion week.
CAIRA: There's always one.
NANCY: You're just in vogue.
CAIRA: Okay, Nancy, before we wrap, we always ask our guests one final question. What's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved?
NANCY: I love this question. I buy so many things that I love. This is the best job for me because I love to shop. I love to analyze things, and I'm really thoughtful about the things I buy. I think the last thing I bought that I really love is this bag that I have been eyeing, this backpack, for at least seven or eight months. It's the Tobiq. It's this backpack with all these compartments. I got the biggest one, which is 60 liters. It has like 18 compartments. It's this giant backpack that can also serve as a carry-on suitcase.
CAIRA: Nancy, I am listening.
NANCY: Oh my God. It's amazing. The Instagram ads got me. I am an Instagram mom, and my phone knows me better than I know myself. So I bought the bag, and I bought it at a time last month where I could get the new Free People collab. So it's these really cool rainbow colors, and it's so beautiful, and I love it, and it carries all my stuff. It has a huge laptop compartment. I mean, I have 10 giant backpacks, so adding this one was, especially because it was like 200 bucks, I was like, "Do I need this?" And then I got it, and I was like, "I need this." The Tobiq 60 liter backpack bag.
ROSIE: I love it. Nancy, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
NANCY: I love you so much. This is great.
ROSIE: Nancy Redd, what a delight.
CHRISTINE: Oh, my gosh.
CAIRA: I love her.
ROSIE: A wealth of knowledge, but also just an absolute delight.
CAIRA: Yeah.
CHRISTINE: I'm never going to forget the UVA, UVB.
CAIRA: Aging.
CHRISTINE: Aging and burning. Now, I understand.
ROSIE: I love that. My takeaway from this episode is just how much sunscreen I need to be putting on my whole body. I think I've been really good about coverage on my face, but I got to make sure that I'm doing enough on my arms and my legs and my hands. I can't have my toes wrinkling.
CAIRA: Yeah, that's why price per ounce is so important. You might feel like you're really in the weeds when you're looking at something like that, but when you have to use a shot glass worth of sunscreen on your body every day, that really does add up.
CHRISTINE: Or every two hours-
CAIRA: Or every two hours.
CHRISTINE: ... If you're outside in the sun a lot, right?
CAIRA: Yeah. And also, one thing that I really wanted to highlight again was just Nancy's point about reef safe sunscreens, because I feel like there's a lot of intentional confusion around that. I want to press people to look a little bit deeper into any sunscreens that they're picking up, hoping that they will be reef safe, to just do a little extra digging and research to make sure that it is those non-nano titanium dioxide or zinc oxide ingredients, because otherwise, it isn't actually reef safe.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, I didn't know that before, and now I will know to look for that. My big takeaway from this episode is that I am breaking the law, that I am un-American, and I am buying sunscreen that I'm not supposed to be buying here in the United States. But I love it, and I will probably continue doing it.
CAIRA: CCC on the lam.
CHRISTINE: The other big takeaway I have is that I know a lot of people who do end up ponying up for the La Roche Posay, like the European brand sunscreens at the pharmacy, and those are great. They might feel great, but you should not buy them thinking that they have the actual active ingredients that are sold in sunscreens in Europe. If they're being sold in a pharmacy here in the States, they are not going to have those active ingredients. They will have active ingredients that are FDA approved here, so you're essentially buying a US sunscreen that might feel fancier.
ROSIE: If you want to find out more about Wirecutter's coverage or if you want to check out any of the products that Nancy recommended today, in addition to any of her reporting on sunscreen, go to our website, or you can find a link in our show notes, and that is it for us this week. If you're going to sunbathe, put on that sunscreen.
CHRISTINE: That's right.
ROSIE: Peace.
CHRISTINE: Bye.
ROSIE: Bye.
CHRISTINE: The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keele, engineering support from Mattie Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today's episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Alisha Bah-Etup, and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's Deputy Publisher and General Manager is Cliff Levy. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter's Editor in Chief. I'm Christine Cyr Clisset.
CAIRA: I'm Caira Blackwell.
ROSIE: And I'm Rosie Guerin.
CHRISTINE: Thanks for listening.
CHRISTINE: It's like you can smoke it, but you can't sell it sort of a thing.