Reform's prison tsar 'more than happy' to open door to death penalty debate - despite Nigel Farage saying he could 'never support' capital punishment

Daily Mail​

3 days ago

Reform's new prison tsar has said she is 'more than happy' to discuss MPs thoughts on the death penalty - after Nigel Farage ruled the punishment out.
Vanessa Frake, the former head of security at HMP Wormwood Scrubs, was revealed yesterday as the party's adviser on crime.
The 62-year-old was quizzed today on her capital punishment stance - and while she denied personally backing a change in the law, Ms Frake opened the doors to a debate.
She told LBC: 'Look, I'm more than happy to discuss the death penalty…
'If you'd have asked me that question 20 years ago, I'd have said absolutely, no hesitation - I support the death penalty.
'But, you know, a lot has changed over the years with convictions being unsafe.
'And is it really a deterrent? Is it a deterrent in the United States, in the states that have the death penalty?
'No, it's not. I'd much rather those people spent whatever life they have behind bars.'
The prison Tsar, who previously oversaw Rose West, told LBC: 'Look, I'm more than happy to discuss the death penalty…'
The prison tsar went on to clarify she was 'open to discussion' but 'not an advocate of it (the death penalty) full-blown.'
Ms Frake, who has been brought in by Reform UK to help boost their prison and justice policy, oversaw a number of notorious inmates during her time in the prison service.
Among these were serial killer Rose West, Moors murderer Myra Hindley and Libertines frontman, Pete Doherty.
Her comments today came despite Mr Farage previously insisting 'nothing on the death penalty will be part of party policy'.
In June, he told The Sun: 'These are issues of conscience, just as the assisted dying debate will be when it comes up on Friday, just as the abortion limit.
'These are all issues of conscience. Nothing on the death penalty will be part of party policy.
'I have to say, personally, given there have been 500 quite serious miscarriages of justice in this country since the early 1970s, I don't think I could ever support it. But I understand why others take a different point of view.
'Although I do think it's quite interesting there's a younger generation coming through who seem to increasingly support the death penalty.
'And I suspect it will be back within the next decade as an issue of major national debate. Not quite yet, but it's coming.
'But, certainly, these things will not be party policy, far, far from it.'
A poll from More in Common UK released in January found a majority of Brits supported reinstating the death penalty in the UK, with Millennials offering the strongest support.
Three in five (58 per cent) of Millennials born between 1981 and 1986 said they believed capital punishment should be reintroduced.
Reform names like David Bull - the new party chairman - have backed looking at the death penalty, as well as Lee Anderson - one of the party's five MPs - who is a long-standing supporter.
The party says its focus over the summer will be on crime and immigration as bosses attempt to flesh out policy platforms.
Ms Frake said Reform UK is 'refreshing' following her work under various parties over the years in the prison service.
She said: 'You can either stand by and moan about the state of things or you can stand up and speak about them.
'And I received a phone call from Reform last week asking for my opinion on prisons, the first time that anybody has ever asked me from a political party.
'I'm not saying we'll agree on everything, we probably won't, but that's politics, that's policy making. And I think that, you know, I spent 27 years in the prison service and I am greatly saddened by how things are run now.
'I feel for the prison staff who have to do a very difficult job on a daily basis in very difficult circumstances.
'Finally, somebody has asked somebody from the Prison Service who's actually lived that experience to share their knowledge, and I'm more than happy to do so.'
Ms Frake said she had only been contacted by Reform about the role four days before it was announced.
She said she would like to see funding for prisons restored alongside attempts to extend sentences and lock more people up.
The appointment comes as Mr Farage yesterday failed to commit to banning transgender women from female prisons - after Ms Frake said the inmates should not be automatically barred.
Ms Frake had argued the decisions should be made on an 'individual basis'.
Asked for his views on her comments yesterday, the Reform UK leader told the Daily Mail: 'I've personally never worked in a prison so I can't answer [the question] but I think you'll find that the answer that you'll get from somebody who has worked in prisons at the highest possible level is, I think, basically it's about risk assessment, isn't it?
'But in terms of the problems in prisons, it's a relatively small one.'
A Reform spokesman later added of Ms Frake: 'An ex-prison governor... has a different opinion. That does not constitute party policy.'
In the interview to mark her appointment, Ms Frake had said decisions about transgender prisoners should be made on a case-by-case basis. But she told The Times that sexual offenders may need to be held in male prisons.
'It's all about the risk assessments for me, and each has to be done on an individual basis,' she said.
She added the transgender prisoners she had overseen were 'accepted' by other inmates, saying: 'People who want to just say a blanket ban clearly have never stepped foot in a prison and seen how prison runs and how risk assessments on individuals happen.'
The prison tsar told LBC today the biggest lesson she had learned over the years was 'how to compartmentalise' what she saw on a daily basis.
Ms Frake said: 'I looked after Rose west for about four or five months. The woman's a typical psychopath.
'You know, she has absolutely no emotional intelligence. And, you know, people who are of that ilk, they don't have it tattooed on their forehead. And that is why they are psychopaths.
'But at the end of the day, they're nobody special, they're prisoners.'