Joe Marler interview: Men's rugby players should do TikTok dances too
As a conversation that began by discussing greyhounds finishes on the merits of TikTok in rugby, Joe Marler offers a final pearl of wisdom. 'I think there are certain levels of disrespect and I've often got those levels wrong,' he admits. 'But until you get them wrong, you don't know where the right levels are.'
His point being that the furore around Jasmine Joyce-Butchers's decision to participate in a TikTok with Sarah Bern, after Wales were recently hammered by England in the Women's Six Nations, is all a bit silly. Or, as he puts it, 'f------ hell, is this for real?'
Marler acknowledges that 'social media allows everyone to be heard, which is fine'. That is the diplomacy out of the way.
'Some of the opinions on there… 'oh, you wouldn't see this in a men's game'. Well, it's not a f------ men's game. And maybe, it would be nice if you did see it in a men's game,' Marler tells Telegraph Sport.
Here was a question put to Marler after he gave Joyce-Butchers some public backing for taking part in Bern's TikTok. Would he have been in the mood to film a 'chicken banana challenge' live on air immediately after being knocked out of the 2015 World Cup by Wales?
Sarah Bern 🤝 Jasmine Joyce-Butchers
Enemies on the field, TikTok dancing after the final whistle! 👯♀️ #BBCRugby #W6N pic.twitter.com/W9XyY9igzU
— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) March 29, 2025
'In my head I replied 'well, TikTok wasn't around then, mate. If it had been, I might have considered it'. Maybe the men need to take a leaf out of the women's book, but the problem is it's not the same game. It's different demographics and fan bases.
'I was all for it. If the girls want to express themselves, then express themselves. And if the boys want to do the same, f------ get on board with it. But I think the people who do it must have a thick skin, and no matter what you do or how you do it, you're going to get some heat for it. Go forth and be whoever you want to be as long as it's not hurting and upsetting other people.'
Yes, this is the same Marler whose disciplinary record after the final ban of his career – for making comments about the mother of Bristol Bears player Jake Heenan – was politely described by the disciplinary panel as 'poor'. But Marler, more than anyone, knows he has not been perfect. Plus, any time spent with him is rarely wasted.
If you are still wondering about the greyhounds, Marler is an ambassador for the Greyhound Board of Great Britain's 'Adopt a Sporting Legend' campaign, helping to find new homes for former racing greyhounds. Life since retiring in November has certainly not been quiet.
There are four children and three dogs to look after at home, as well as Marler's Things People Do podcast. And importantly his work with Team England Rugby which, as we approach the back end of the season, seems to be focused on managing the escalating workloads of England's players who, ideally, will be British and Irish Lions this summer. Tommy Freeman (26 games) and Maro Itoje (24 games) are two of several players set to soar past the 30-games-a-season welfare guideline, which is part of the latest Professional Game Agreement signed last year between the Rugby Football Union, Premiership Rugby and Rugby Players' Association.
Marler's job is to make sure those players get the best care possible, but the 30-game guideline already feels a bit like hot air.
'Potentially five or six will get closer to that 40 number. So you go right, what's in place to look after these players? Technically, nothing is in place, because nothing is mandated,' Marler explains.
'It is about working out and discussing with the RFU, PRL and RPA what can be put in place to protect these players from a) not going over it and b) if we're accepting they are, what are we doing to protect them? Are we adjusting their training weeks? They have the 10-week stand-down after this season, so they won't have any pre-season games or anything. But we're currently looking at different ways [as well]. What more can we do to look after these players long term?'
'Everyone wants their pound of flesh from their top stars'
One option under consideration is to copy a system used in National Rugby League in Australia, where the more professional seasons you play, the longer your off-season. Team England Rugby is not signatories on the PGP, merely there to advise. But its voice will be heard.
'We're looking to see what we can do without upsetting everyone,' Marler adds. 'Everyone wants their pound of flesh from their top stars of the game and it's up to us to say 'I know you want them to play, but what is in their best interests?''
There are, of course, some variations to consider and figure out. Will Stuart may have played 25 matches so far but his actual minutes played – around 1,100 – are considerably lower than Freeman's. While Marler can appreciate this is new territory for everyone, he also issues a warning.
'We are of the position that we accept this is new and everyone is still trying to work it out. But it cannot be at the expense of the players. They are not guinea pigs. How do we keep on top of it while we are still learning?'
So often the jester during his career, for Marler the risks that come with player burnout are no laughing matter.
Unsurprisingly, Marler will always be a Harlequins supporter. Yet he freely admits that he has not seen many of their games since retiring.
'I don't think I could be classed as a Quins spectator because I'm not sure how much I've actually seen. I keep my toe in rugby through the Team England stuff and in contact with the boys there, but I have sort of just been trying to find my way in the world. I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and watch the games,' he says.
'People ask if I miss it. I miss that big-game adrenalin, but I don't miss it. I think I dragged it out longer than I should have anyway. I'm proud and happy with the ups and downs that I experienced during my career, but now it's time to find out what the next job is for the next 40 years. I will always be a Quins supporter and keep an eye on the results.'
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