Ash Sarkar: ‘I never learned much of value from TV'

The Guardian

15-02-2025

Ash Sarkar, 32, is a journalist and political commentator. She grew up in north London and is a contributing editor at the leftwing website Novara Media. A regular pundit on TV and radio, she made waves with a viral 2018 appearance on ITV's Good Morning Britain, where she clashed with Piers Morgan, telling him: 'I'm literally a communist, you idiot.' Her first book, Minority Rule: Adventures in the Culture War (Bloomsbury), is a lively analysis of how the ruling classes purposefully misdirect political blame by stoking the fear that minorities are working to oppress the majority.
What does 'minority rule' mean to you?I realised that every moral panic – whether it was trans rights, BLM [Black Lives Matter], Extinction Rebellion – was 1,000 doors opening on to the same place. The story was: here are these minorities who want to tell you how to live. But at the same time, I believe society is governed by minority rule – oligarchic power, corporate power, the way in which electoral systems devalue the votes of people who live in densely populated areas. So minority rule describes both this moral panic and the true state of affairs.
Who is the book's ideal reader?Somebody who shares political content on Instagram, but doesn't have a job in politics; someone who consumes a bit of news media, but isn't an obsessive. They could think of themselves as anywhere from very left wing to in the middle. My hope is that I meet them where they're at, and give them the tools to perform their own analysis.
And what should readers expect to learn from it?It starts by looking at how identity became the dominant preoccupation among progressives, then it goes on to examine media, lobby journalism, electoral politics and the insurgent far right – and how all of these forces contribute to breaking down unity among the majority of people who aren't part of the super-wealthy. What I hope readers will learn is that a big part of formal democracy is about making sure that ordinary people don't identify their shared interests with one another.
So how do we break free of minority rule, especially in light of gen Z, whom recent research found are disillusioned with democracy?I wish I had a simple answer! Obviously young people are growing disillusioned with democracy – all they've ever known is democratic representatives and institutions telling them: 'No, sorry, things can't get better and you're an idiot for thinking anything different.' I think the starting point is thinking, working and organising with building majority coalitions in mind. That doesn't mean abandoning causes like anti-racism or trans rights, but understanding that you're going to have to speak to the issues that the majority of people are contending with if you want to get anywhere.
Where do your politics come from?I grew up in a family where women talked about politics all the time. My grandma was an anti-racist activist. My mum was an anti-racist activist and trade unionist. But the family business was social work, which is like growing up in the mafia except everyone's an active listener. The fact that my mum, my auntie, my grandma would be talking about things they observed at work – like the way in which for children who have been in care, there's a pipeline that can end in prison because of state failings – was massively impactful for shaping my thinking.
What has been your experience of X since Elon Musk took over?I interact a lot less than I used to because I know underneath is going to be a hailstorm of racism. It's got continually worse since Musk's takeover. You can report it. Nothing will get done. The other day I saw someone tweet: 'Ash Sarkar would be so easy to rape.' I worry that something really bad is going to happen [to me] in the real world, and it will cause my mum and husband so much pain – just because of the job I choose to do.
Has that changed the way you live?I'm very careful. I don't share [online] where I am when I'm there – ever. I prefer facing doors when I'm sitting down. I'm a lot jumpier than I used to be.
What made you want to write a book, given that you'd get wider reach on TV or radio?McDonald's sells more food than Ottolenghi, but one is better for you. I think broadcast is really important, and the success of Joe Rogan and Theo Von demonstrates the appetite for long-form interviews. But conventional broadcast is way behind social media for meeting the desires of its audience. And I never learned much of value from TV. The things that made me feel like I had the ability to marshal the chaos of the world into some kind of comprehensible shape were books.
What were those books?Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon. The Communist Manifesto, obviously. Stuart Hall's essays The Neo-Liberal Revolution, The Great Moving Right Show, New Ethnicities – banger after banger after banger.
What about fiction?I love Hilary Mantel's work. I'm a Mantel stan. In A Place of Greater Safety and the Wolf Hall trilogy you see that moment-to-moment decision-making of people who want to hold power, and you see those moments where it just slips out of their grasp. I also love Jane Austen. I love that her books are just people going over to each other's houses.
What book would you give to a young person?I think any person who is interested in writing should look at the facsimile edition of The Waste Land, where you've got the original TS Eliot draft and then you see where Ezra Pound drew straight lines through, like 'no, no, no'. It tells you how important an editor is, and how shape comes from being willing to take things away.
Are you hopeful that you'll see political change during your lifetime?Antonio Gramsci spoke of 'pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will'. I don't think it's likely, but if you're not hopeful, what are you doing?
Minority Rule: Adventures in the Culture War by Ash Sarkar is published by Bloomsbury (£18.99). To support the Guardian and Observer order your copy at guardianbookshop.com. Delivery charges may apply