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Charlie Pickering reveals surprising secret from The Project's early days

Charlie Pickering reveals surprising secret from The Project's early days

News.com.au7 hours ago

Former The Project host Charlie Pickering has opened up about the show's origins in a new interview with news.com.au – and revealed that he and Carrie Bickmore were never originally intended to take on hosting roles on the show.
Pickering speaks to news.com.au's Andrew Bucklow for Monday's episode of the From the Newsroom podcast, reflecting on his time on The Project after news last week that the show will be axed later this month after 16 years on-air.
Back when it debuted in 2009, the show was called The 7pm Project and teamed Pickering, Bickmore and comedian Dave Hughes as joint co-hosts. At the time, Hughes was by far the most well-known of the three.
'One thing I remember very clearly about this show: Carrie and I were never meant to host it. It was an accident of showbiz that that happened,' Pickering revealed on From The Newsroom.
Pickering said that Bickmore, who back then had a regular gig as a newsreader on Rove Live, was earmarked for a similar role on The Project, expected to sit at the end of the desk and offer occasional news headlines.
Pickering, then an up-and-coming comedian, would sit at the other end of the desk to offer light relief and be a 'regular correspondent' for the show, delivering a couple of stories per week.
With the pair locked in as satellite panellists, the search was on for actual hosts – and Pickering and Bickmore were enlisted to help with the audition process.
The pair were on hand as the audition process ran 'for two or three days straight,' sitting on either end of the panel as pairs of more famous hosts were brought in to bounce off them during mock episodes.
'I think it was Good Morning Australia – they'd finish recording in the morning in the studio, then we'd move in a desk [and audition hosts],' he said.
Pickering said that to keep the auditions consistent, they used the same stories with each auditionee: 'Carrie would do the headline, then I'd chip in and have an opinion … and I got bored doing the same thing all the time, so I'd change my opinion on each story, try to think of different jokes. I was sitting there for two, three days, just trying to make as many jokes and have as many different opinions on the same stories as I could.'
Bickmore, too, started to go off-script as the auditions wore on.
'She got bored of reading the same headlines over and over, so she started to get more involved in the conversations [with the panel],' he said.
Pickering said that at the end of their final day of auditions, they'd made it through every auditionee and there was still '15 minutes' left before they had to vacate the studio.
One of the producers tasked with casting the show suggested they use their final 15 minutes doing a take with just Pickering and Bickmore on the panel.
'This was my Eminem, ' If you only had one shot …' moment,' he said. 'I put the [host's] earpiece in – and I'd never really had to use one before, had never read an autocue before. But I had an advantage: I'd watched every audition, and I knew what had worked and what didn't. I sat in one host's chair, Carrie in the other host's chair … and it just clicked straight away.
'For me personally, it felt like the most natural thing I've ever done. Hosting, hitting the autocue, guiding the conversation. And Carrie was more experienced than I was on TV, so she was really comfortable and we both just had fun,' he said.
Once they'd finished, Pickering went home and thought of it as a 'fun' exercise in gaining some technical experience: 'Now I know what it's like to read an autocue,' he remembered thinking.
An hour or so later, he received a call from his manager: The show's producers wanted to continue the audition process with he and Bickmore, this time with just one more host: Dave Hughes.
He said that one new directive made him realise he was being considered for a more central role than end-of-desk funnyman.
'They said, 'we've gotta get you to wardrobe, because you can't wear what you're wearing,'' he recalled.
'All of a sudden, I was not visually presentable for the job that they now wanted me for.'
The Project debuted on July 20 2009, with Pickering, Hughes and Bickmore remaining the show's central trio until Hughes left at the end of 2013. Pickering exited a year later, with Bickmore eventually becoming the longest-running host in The Project' s history, staying with the show until 2022, a year in which Peter Helliar, Tommy Little and Lisa Wilkinson all also left.
Pickering, who now hosts The Weekly on the ABC, said it was a 'real shame' that The Project will come to an end on June 27, bringing its 16-year run to an end.
'In my five years, I think I hosted something like 1300 or 1400 hours of television. It was the best place to learn how to make TV.'

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The trend extends to Australian acts such as Pond, Northlane, Alpha Wolf, Thy Art Is Murder and Polaris, who were part of a raft of heavy acts in late 2024 who saw fakes pop up in their profiles. Spotify users have taken to social media and message boards with complaints about AI-generated music being platformed, while fake profiles have been linked to deceased artists, including hip hop visionary Madvillian, late electronic producer SOPHIE and even the legendary Brian Wilson. Bender and his label, Wondercore Island, have been making noise on social media about the issue. The comments are filled with multiple instances of artists experiencing the same problem. There were even examples of a (since removed) AI-generated album trained to model Norwegian pop singer Annie, mirroring the 2023 case where Universal Music Group successfully had a song featuring AI-faked Drake and The Weeknd vocals pulled from streaming services. 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In April, Deezer reported 18 per cent of its daily uptake — that's 20,000 tracks – is fully AI-generated, while industry analysts estimate the figure is 10 per cent across the streaming ecosphere. The concern is scammers are taking advantage of weak security to flood multiple platforms and profiles with fraudulent music, then skim just enough royalties from plays to matter but a small enough amount to allow them to fly under the radar. Deezer uses AI-detection tools to purge offenders while Apple Music boasts that less than 1 per cent of their streams are fraudulent. Spotify says it puts "significant engineering resources and research into detecting, mitigating, and removing artificial streaming activity", punishing offenders with fines, suspension and removal from the platform. However, the Swedish company also embraces AI tools that have made musicians uneasy, such as its AI-powered DJ and the imminent launch of a personalised playlist powered by Chat-GPT-styled prompts. "We want more humans to make it as artists and creators, but what is creativity in the future with AI?" CEO Daniel Ek asked at Spotify's 'Open House' event, hosted in Stockholm earlier this month. "I don't know. What is music anyway?" Ek sees AI less as a threat and more as a democratising force that lowers the barrier for entry to aspiring musicians. Additionally, Bryan Johnson, head of Artist & Industry Partnerships, acknowledged "how frustrating" streaming fraud can be, but that there is "infinitely small consumption" of fully AI-generated tracks on Spotify. He added, "They are fully removed from royalty calculations and do not dilute the royalty pool in any way." Spotify Australia's rep said the offending Sweet Enoughs tracks being AI generated was "speculation and not verified… These songs were not AI despite the consistent narrative here". Bender, who emphasises possessing a healthy pair of eyes and ears, says that's disingenuous. "Disingenuous is the most polite way to put it. "I think that it's such a f***ing cop-out to suggest that, 'Oh well, we don't know it's AI.' Obviously, if I was a scammer, I'm not going into a studio and recording music. I'm going to go on Suno or Udio and generate 500 songs, almost instantly." Gould reasons that The Sweet Enoughs weren't "targeted by a specific human" but instead were collateral damage. "The Sweet Enoughs is not a super-unusual name. No-one else has chosen it. But if I was running a program churning out thousands of fake artists every week, uploading music via distributors en masse, there's potential…" He can't prove it. "But it sure f***ing seems like AI, [and Spotify] can't prove that it isn't." The situation leaves many smaller labels and independent artists disempowered. Without the backing of a major label to police things, their only recourse is to play a time-consuming, labour-intensive game of "whack-a-mole." In sleuthing out the source of the alleged imitators, Gould's hunt led him to digital distributor Ditto Music, (which, it should be noted, is not on Spotify's list of "preferred" digital distributors). But all attempts to communicate with Ditto's Australian office and manager were met with "absolute crickets". Reverse-engineering a search on the artwork for one song revealed it to be a stock image used across several other tracks, including one on Spotify supposedly featuring pop star Camilla Caballo but credited to one MC Rhymes. A "22-year-old American rapper, songwriter, and record producer", according to his Spotify profile, MC Rhymes has 1 million followers on Instagram, yet only 826 monthly Spotify listeners. The numbers don't add up. "I was trying to work it out," says Gould. "He's actually ripped one of Caballo's songs ['U Shaped Space'], changed it slightly, retitled it. But it's not appearing on her profile, it's appearing on his — it's there and getting streams." Gould deadpans that his next course of action is to "pay a lawyer $2,000 to send cease-and-desist orders, start the process of going through the distributors to eventually get IP addresses from Ditto and engage some cybercrime team so we can litigate … against a factory in Eastern Europe with a bunch of computers rigged up". While streaming royalties are famously low — the average Spotify payout is $0.004 per play — in a streaming business worth nearly $600 million locally (according to ARIA), those many marginal streams from a multitude of accounts begin to add up. "The more I've thought about it, the only way this works is if someone can do this on an insanely large scale," notes Bender. "And the fact there's this wide open door." He says if a fraudster had to hack passwords and accounts, or record passable music, "the whole scam becomes too hard to bother with". Bender has been creating memes as a coping mechanism, but the punchlines only work because "this isn't a complex problem to solve. Every streaming company is filled with developers who could figure out how to solve this in a lunch break. But have they?" He and Gould believe there's no incentive for streamers and distributors to "create greater protections … it's just going to drive labour hours and it doesn't increase profits at all". The Sweet Enoughs' plight has found an ally in Michael League, leader of respected jazz fusion group Snarky Puppy, who has taken the issue to Grammys senior executive Nick Cucci. "Who was horrified and just flabbergasted," notes Bender. The plan is to escalate their complaints to Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr and take it all the way to US Congress, "because this is absolutely a lawless environment", Bender emphasises. "I would say the entire streaming industry is operating on criminal levels of negligence. I can't think of another industry where being able to impersonate someone for monetary gain isn't taken deathly seriously." The Sweet Enoughs, Wondercore Island, along with Hiatus Kaiyote and League's Snarky Puppy, are rallying their peers for an open letter pressuring accountability from DSPs and digital distributors. More than 70 artists — including Anderson .Paak, Willow Smith, Rapsody, Kimbra and Australians Genesis Owusu, The Teskey Brothers and Surprise Chef — have signed the open letter, which demands streamers and distributors implement a functional authentication system as a "bare minimum." "Without one, the future of the streaming landscape is one populated with an endless sea of AI impersonations that impacts artists and cheapens the experience and usefulness of the streaming platforms themselves." It concludes: "We are calling on the music industry, politicians and lawmakers around the world to take measures to protect our creators in these most uncertain times." It's the latest public warning that AI won't just muscle in on musicians' profits and creativity. It will replace them. Last year, high-profile artists like Billie Eilish, ABBA and Stevie Wonder demanded protections against unlicensed use of music to train AI. In February, a coalition of more than 1,000 musicians issued a silent album in protest against UK government plans to allow AI companies to use copyright-protected work without permission. Last year, a chorus of Australian artists — including Missy Higgins, Jimmy Barnes and Bernard Fanning — lent their support to an APRA AMCOS report warning on the devastating impacts artificial intelligence could have on their careers. They demanded urgent action from the government for policies to regulate AI, estimating it could cost the local industry $519 million by 2027. "A Napster-level disruption," says Nicholas Picard, executive director of Public Affairs and Government Relations at APRA AMCOS. "AI is one of the biggest threats facing songwriters and composers today," Picard says. "There's about 100,000 tracks being uploaded every day on DSPs. That in itself makes it very hard for local artists to be visible in front of audiences both locally and globally. Add in what is emerging to be AI slop that is being automatically uploaded on these platforms [and artists are] now competing with them directly." Following the APRA AMCOS report, the government proposed draft AI regulations, including "mandatory guardrails" concerning transparency. "[That's] one of the main things artists and the creative community are calling for," notes Picard. The industry response has been "really positive", he says, and following Labor's federal election win, APRA AMCOS will be "picking up those conversations with those new portfolio holders to really get that work underway so those mandatory guardrails can happen". "There is a big global regulatory battle happening between the artists and the owners of their intellectual property, and the platforms," he says. A spokesperson for ARIA (Australian Recording Industry Association) also acknowledged the "growing threat of AI-generated fraud". They told Double J: "ARIA is fully aligned with the global recording industry position — and frequent advocacy — that artists' rights and the integrity of original recordings must be protected, with clear frameworks established globally to prevent misuse and unauthorised exploitation." Then there's the Music Fights Fraud Alliance, which bills itself as "a global task force aimed at eradicating streaming fraud". Established in 2023, the Music Fights Fraud Alliance is amalgamating members from streaming platforms, distributors and labels in a bid to agree on structured protections. Gould has been "following the breadcrumbs around that" and wants to combine their efforts but is "trying to understand what the road map looks like. "What sort of timeline are they on? Are thy facing certain roadblocks that we could assist with? "Or actually, are they just a corporate shell and everyone's just wading water until they can just blast AI and push all the musicians out of the way?" He quotes his friend Stuart Grant, from Aussie punk band Primitive Calculators. "It seems like, for the longest time, the biggest problem for the music industry has always been musicians. And finally, they don't need to worry about them anymore." Bender has been working on a new Sweet Enoughs record, due "sometime this year", which expands it "from a little insular project into a very wide collaborative effort" involving some famous friends — whose names he can't reveal just yet. But the positivity of the process has been soured by his recent experiences. "There's already so many problems in the streaming sphere and the music industry in general. But this one? This one could absolutely be solved. "There needs to be regulations in place. There needs to be at least some dignity afforded by protecting the identities and the intellectual property and the likeness and the idea of all these artists. "That you can guarantee that, 'Yes, this is their music.' Not some robot pretending to be them. Not some scumbag with a bot farm producing garbage to scrape literal percentages of pennies from a million directions at once."

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