Do anti-Trump protests mark a turning point?

Australia Broadcast Center

4 hours ago

Sam Hawley: Over the weekend, as Donald Trump was watching a military parade, huge numbers of Americans took to the streets in the largest nationwide protests against his administration since returning to the White House. They were there to rally against what they say is Trump's authoritarian rule and the threat he poses to democracy. Today, senior political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, Molly Ball, on the shift in public mood and what it means for the president. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily. Molly, over the weekend, there were two celebrations. One was the US Army's 250th anniversary. The other, of course, was Donald Trump's 79th birthday. And to celebrate, there was this rather unusual military parade in Washington. Just tell me about that because you were there.
Molly Ball: Well, President Trump has wanted this sort of a grand spectacle for some years now. He attended a military parade in France and complimented President Macron on it, was very impressed and spent much of his first term trying to get something similar to no avail. So he's finally gotten his big military parade. It was technically a celebration of the 250th birthday of the US Army, which was founded in 1775 around this time. Happened to coincide with his birthday, but the president said that was just a coincidence. So it was quite an impressive spectacle.
Announcer: The iconic Sherman tank is here, ladies and gentlemen. It was the cornerstone of the US Armed Forces.
Donald Trump, US President: Every other country celebrates their victories. It's about time America did too. That's what we're doing tonight.
Molly Ball: It was on a day that a real torrential downpour had been forecast. So that may have thinned out the crowd a little bit. It was, I wouldn't say it was a totally packed house. There were also some criticisms of the cost of the parade, as much as $45 million. And this is at a time when Congress is seeking to cut the budget and do away with wasteful spending. So there's been some controversy about that.
Saw Hawley: Yeah. I gather the precision of the soldiers wasn't quite like what you get from the North Korean soldiers when they hold these sorts of parades.
Molly Ball: Well, certainly critics of Donald Trump, people who are not big fans of his presidency, have drawn that parallel. Those who accuse him of having sort of authoritarian tendencies have said that, you know, this isn't the sort of spectacle we put on in America. The last time we had a big military parade in Washington, D.C. was at the end of the Gulf War in the early 90s. And the parade had the potential to do quite a lot of damage to the streets of Washington. That's part of where that big price tag comes from is the need for repaving because the tanks are so heavy. They can weigh as much as 70 tons and city streets aren't prepared for that generally. When the mayor of Washington, D.C. was interviewed about this, she said, well, usually you have this kind of parade when you win a war. And so I think it was especially ironic that this happened not only after a week of incredible sort of drama and unrest across America, but it was also at a time when new conflicts are breaking out overseas in the Middle East.
Sam Hawley: Yeah. And the Californian governor, Gavin Newsom, who, of course, has been dealing with those riots in L.A., he said it was a vulgar display.
Gavin Newsom, Governor of California: How weak do you have to be to commandeer the military, to fete you on your birthday in a vulgar display of weakness? That's Donald Trump.
Sam Hawley: Well, while this parade was unfolding, there were these quite large protests also occurring across the country. They were dubbed the "No Kings". Tell me about those.
Molly Ball: This is a display of patriotic protest against what Trump's critics have called his authoritarian tendencies, pointing to the many allegedly unlawful actions this administration has taken. I don't actually know much about the genesis of these protests. They appear to have been relatively organic. A lot of liberal organisations and just rank and file folks coming together to put on these displays throughout the day.
Protester: The government gone wild, threat of fascism, breaking the laws left and right, courts can't keep up.
Protester: My biggest concern, of course, is for our democracy and our people. This is not the United States, and it makes me ashamed almost, really.
Molly Ball: And, you know, it's been interesting to watch the opposition to Donald Trump sort of come to life over the past few months, because when he was first elected eight years ago, there was an immediate outpouring of protest. And it was the day after his inauguration in 2017 when the Women's March became the largest protest in American history up to that time.
Protesters: This is what democracy looks like! Show me what democracy looks like!
Molly Ball: And then you had, after his first travel ban, which was only a couple of months into his administration, again, people poured into the streets and rallied to airports and so forth.
Newsreader: Once again, protesters descended on the White House.
Protesters: No hate! No Fear! Refugees are welcome here!
Molly Ball: Because of the different circumstances surrounding his comeback win in 2024, there really have not been masses of people in the streets. And there's been a feeling that the Democrats are sort of demoralised and on their heels. So this is the first time we have seen this sort of massive display of unified peaceful protest in order to send a signal that, at least in the minds of these demonstrators, what they're seeing from the Trump administration is not, in their view, what America stands for.
Sam Hawley: All right. Well, Donald Trump says he doesn't feel like a king.
Donald Trump, US President: I don't feel like a king. I have to go through hell to get stuff approved.
Sam Hawley: But of course, these protests, they came off the back of the LA riots where he sent in the Marines and National Guard, and also on the same weekend that a gunman targeted Democrat politicians in Minnesota, killing Melissa Hortman and her husband and injuring another couple.
Newsreader: Authorities say a man posed as a police officer before shooting dead Minnesota politician Melissa Hortman and her husband inside their Minneapolis home. Earlier, the man shot and injured state Senator John Hoffman and his wife, who both survived.
Sam Hawley: Tell me about that. There is a lot going on.
Molly Ball: There is. And you know, America has felt very much like a tinderbox for quite some time. But this week has been especially intense. As you said, the week began with these protests in Los Angeles that did turn violent on several consecutive nights with burning of cars and destruction of property, although there were no serious injuries or deaths. Fortunately, those in turn were triggered by some immigration raids on work sites as the Trump administration seeks to step up the pace of deportations of unauthorised immigrants. And then on the actual same day as the military parade and the nationwide protests on that morning, a man stalked and killed these state legislators at their homes in the middle of the night. And again, this is in the context of there's been quite a bit of political violence recently. In fact, it was the eighth anniversary on Saturday of a shooting at a congressional baseball game that seriously injured several Republican lawmakers eight years ago. And we've seen a recent rash of political violence. You can look to the January 6th riot. You can look to the recent anti-Israel violence that has been quite severe in many cases. And so, you know, I think there's a real climate of fear around American politics right now. There's a real sense among, you know, lawmakers and judges that they need to be constantly under guard and that it's not necessarily safe to go about your business if you're engaged in the work of power in this country. So it all feels like a very tense and frightening time, both in the U.S. and around the world.
Sam Hawley: All right. Well, Molly, the protesters say Donald Trump is acting as an authoritarian and they don't want a king, they don't need a king and they don't want a dictator. Do you think the threat against democracy is real? Is he really an authoritarian leader? Because his supporters would say that Donald Trump is simply enacting the policies that he actually took to the election.
Molly Ball: That's right. And the line from the administration is that it's actually the protesters who are anti-democratic because the voters spoke in November. That was the voice of democracy. It is Trump who is fulfilling that will of the voters. Now, the administration has lost quite a lot of court cases, and his critics would say that's because he's tried to do a lot of things that are according to the courts illegal, whether it's the high profile deportations that have been in error or have been constitutionally questionable, legally questionable. A variety of executive actions that this administration has taken that courts have questioned, including the worldwide tariffs that were undertaken under a sort of emergency authority. So there's a lot of questions about, and this was true in his first term as well, whether this administration is overreaching its constitutional authority and whether he has the right to do many of the things that he's done. The political energy in the country may have shifted a bit, that it may be the protesters who sort of have the wind at their back politically. We've seen Trump turn unpopular in quite a lot of polls, even on issues where he once had an advantage like immigration and the economy. And so, you know, the next big expression of democracy on the calendar is the next congressional elections a year and a half from now. And I think that's when we'll know sort of where the will of the people lies.
Sam Hawley: And we have seen Trump turn around on some of his immigration deportations, right? He paused raids on farms, on hospitality workers, so is he getting the signal that he's maybe going too far?
Molly Ball: I think there are conflicting camps within the White House and immigration in particular is a source of a lot of contention within and among Donald Trump's conservative base. So I would hesitate to say definitively that he's going in one direction or another. You know, on Friday, he did make expressions of sympathy to the farmers whose workers are being snatched from the fields. And then just a few hours later, he issued another vow to deport every last illegal immigrant residing in America. So and there's still quite a lot of people in his administration who believe he needs to push forward with that. So, you know, there have been threats to send troops into more American cities if there are more protests that the administration believes need to be quelled by federal authorities. So I think we don't yet know where this is all heading. And on issues like immigration, on issues like foreign policy, where we've again heard sort of conflicting messages about where the administration stands on what Israel has done in attacking Iran. I think it's not quite clear where he intends to go on a lot of these issues. And we're at sort of an inflection point.
Sam Hawley: Yeah. And you mentioned the Democrats, the California governor, of course, Gavin Newsom, he's been getting a fair bit of airtime. He could be a presidential nominee in the future. Are the Democrats seizing this moment, do you think?
Molly Ball: You know, the Democrats continue to be quite unpopular, even as the electorate seems to sour on Trump a little bit. I think there's a feeling that the energy is largely outside institutions like political parties. You know, the Democrats have rallied behind Newsom in part because there's a feeling that the congressional leadership in Washington has not been up to the task of opposition to Trump. And, you know, I was in Los Angeles and spent some time with Governor Newsom and interviewed him while the unrest was unfolding. But what you hear from the people in the streets is that they're not there on behalf of the Democratic Party. They see themselves as there on behalf of a movement of opposition. But I think it remains to be seen whether Democrats can seize this moment because they are in such disarray and they do sort of lack for strong leadership. So I do think that Governor Newsom has seized this moment, but in part it's simple desperation on the part of Democrats because they just haven't seen anyone else sort of step up in that role.
Sam Hawley: All right. Well, Molly, tell me, with the protests in LA and the "No King" protests across the country, do you sense there is a shift, that this could be some sort of turning point? That more people are willing to take to the streets to oppose the president?
Molly Ball: It's certainly possible. I try not to make predictions as a political reporter. I try to cover events as they unfold. But I do think there is a sense that that political energy may have shifted a bit. And it comes at a rather crucial time for Trump's legislative agenda as well. The Congress is currently working quite hard to pass the bill that includes most of his tax policies. You know, it does have the potential to be a moment that we look back on and say that was the point at which this second term of Trump, which came out of the gate, which with such furious energy and with Elon Musk tearing away at the federal bureaucracy and so forth, that this is when that energy sort of started to reverse and run in the other direction.
Sam Hawley: Molly Ball is a senior political correspondent at the Wall Street Journal. This episode was produced by Sydney Pead and Adair Sheppard. Audio production by Sam Dunn. Our supervising producer is David Coady. I'm Sam Hawley. Thanks for listening.