RFK Jr.'s impact on HHS so far has some worried

USA Today

24-04-2025

RFK Jr.'s impact on HHS so far has some worried | The Excerpt
On a special episode (first released on April 23, 2025) of The Excerpt podcast: One of the most talked about and controversial cabinet appointments made by President Donald Trump has been that of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a known vaccine skeptic who has embraced several debunked health conspiracies. As secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, he now controls the Centers for Disease Control, which led the development of the COVID-19 vaccine, the Food & Drug Administration which looks after food safety, and many other consequential health subdepartments which safeguard the public's health. What changes has RFK Jr. enacted so far and what does the future of American health under his leadership look like? Dr. Richard Besser, president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and former acting director of the CDC, joins The Excerpt to share his concerns.
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Dana Taylor:
Hello and welcome to The Excerpt. I'm Dana Taylor. Today is Wednesday, April 23rd, 2025, and this is a special episode of The Excerpt. One of the most talked about and controversial cabinet appointments made by President Donald Trump has been that of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a known vaccine skeptic who has embraced several debunked health conspiracies.
As Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, he now controls the Centers for Disease Control, which led the development of the COVID-19 vaccine, the Food and Drug Administration, and many other health sub-departments who are responsible for safeguarding public health. What changes has RFK Jr. enacted so far, and what does the future of American health under his leadership look like?
Here to help me dig into this is Dr. Richard Besser, President and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and former acting director of the CDC. Dr. Besser was a practicing pediatrician for over 30 years. Thank you so much for joining me, Dr. Besser.
Dr. Richard Besser:
Thanks so much for having me.
Dana Taylor:
RFK Jr. has been very vocal in his stance against vaccines in the past. But when the current measles outbreak in Texas started really growing, he pivoted and finally recommended that people vaccinate their kids. This has spurred the Make America Healthy Again crowd to turn against him. How can scientists address those who are so dead set against vaccines?
Dr. Richard Besser:
I want to push back a little bit on the initial premise. When Secretary Kennedy was first asked about the outbreak of measles at the end of the cabinet meeting, that was the moment where you would've liked to see your Secretary of Health forcibly say that this is something that can be prevented and every parent needs to make sure that their child is vaccinated against measles, and every adult needs to make sure that they as well are protected.
Together, we can stop this outbreak. He didn't do that. He initially talked about vitamin A. He talked about nutrition. He talked about vaccines being an option. And it took a long time for him to come around and say that yes, the vaccine is the best way to protect yourself from measles. He didn't come out forcibly and say, "Every parent needs to make sure their child is vaccinated."
Again, he said it's a parental choice. And clearly it is a choice for parents to make. I, as you said, practiced pediatrics for over 30 years, and I spent a lot of time talking with parents about vaccines and vaccine safety. And I know as a pediatrician that there's nothing I did that had more value in terms of the health of the children in my practice than making sure they were vaccinated fully and on time. And that took spending time with parents who ask good questions.
Parents should get their questions answered. But you want to see from the leadership on down that there is true support for vaccination broadly or we're going to see the return of a lot of diseases that thankfully in this country we haven't had to experience. For those parents who are skeptical, it really takes making sure that those in leadership are following the science, following the evidence, and are speaking of one voice about the importance of vaccination.
Dana Taylor:
RFK Jr. recently spoke at a Make America Healthy Again event in Indiana. I want to play a short clip for you here.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:
People get measles because they don't vaccinate. They get measles because the vaccine wanes. The vaccine's waning about 4.8% per year. And so it's a leaky vaccine and that problem is always going to be around.
Dana Taylor:
What he just said is untrue. Why doubt data that his own organization, the CDC, which is underneath HHS, disputes on its own website? How can the medical community fight this blatant misinformation?
Dr. Richard Besser:
This is one of those big challenges. I spoke out very forcibly against the nomination of RFK Jr. for this position, and he has shown his colors in the role so far as undermining people's faith and trust in vaccines. The measles vaccine is one of the most effective vaccines, if not the most effective vaccine that we have, and being vaccinated fully provides 95% protection.
It's not 100%. So that means that if there are 100 people in a community who've been vaccinated, there are five of them who probably don't have protection. So you need to make sure that the levels of coverage are high enough that those people who didn't get protection and those people who couldn't get vaccinated because they may have an immune problem that made the vaccine not safe for them, that they're protected as well.
So to talk about it falsely as being a leaky vaccine is something that will undermine some people's faith in that and lead parents who want to do the right thing for their children, some of them will make the wrong decision.
Dana Taylor:
Dr. Besser, I want to turn now to RFK Jr.'s long debunked claims that vaccines are a cause of autism. Kennedy recently tapped a vaccine skeptic David Guyer to lead a major study about vaccines and autisms. And at his first press conference recently, he also doubled down on his view that toxins in the environment contribute to autism. What do you say to people who believe that either of these theories has legs?
Dr. Richard Besser:
It's a clear example of the anti-science, anti-evidence movement. Secretary Kennedy has done more than just about anyone in America to undermine people's confidence in vaccines. And spreading the false theory that vaccines cause autism takes away research dollars that could be looking at what are some of the causes of autism, what are some of the supports and services that help people who are autistic lead the most fulsome life possible?
It takes the efforts away from research that could be very productive, and it undermines people's confidence in vaccines. The question about whether vaccines cause autism has been addressed again and again and again by some of the best scientists in the world. It's been reviewed by expert scientific committees. And the conclusion is clear that vaccines, preservatives and vaccines as well do not cause autism. And so taking the attention away and saying that he will answer this question by the fall is absolutely the definition of absurdity.
Dana Taylor:
No one is arguing that America isn't facing an obesity epidemic, a condition related to a number of comorbidities such as high blood pressure and heart disease. What do you think of RFK Jr.'s approach to making Americans healthier? And is there something policy-wise you think should be done on that front?
Dr. Richard Besser:
I think that there's a lot we could do in America to address chronic diseases. And there are things that we should do. One is it's critically important that everyone in America has access to high quality, comprehensive, affordable healthcare. That's not the case. The Affordable Care Act moved us in that direction, but there's still 25 million people who lack health insurance.
And the value of having a healthcare provider who knows you is that they can check your blood pressure and see if it's starting to creep up. They can talk to you about nutrition and help you get access to foods that will help prevent diabetes and prevent heart disease. But we don't have that in America. We also know that one of the best ways to address chronic disease is to ensure that people have enough money to buy fresh fruits and vegetables and the foods that they know will help them stay healthy.
You could do that by addressing the minimum wage in America. You could do that by addressing poverty in America. But what we've seen so far from the Secretary who says that he's interested in chronic disease, he's basically come in and wiped out all the expertise that the Centers for Disease Control that focused on chronic disease. He eliminated the Office on Smoking and Health, and smoking is the number one preventable cause of chronic disease, whether you're talking about stroke or heart disease or cancer.
This is incredible for someone who says that he cares about chronic disease to basically decimate departments, divisions within Health and Human Services that focus on this area. If we really want to address chronic disease in America, pull together the best and the brightest, and let's go at it. Let's go at the school lunch program and make sure that children in every school in America are served a healthy lunch.
For some children, half their calories come from that school lunch, but we're basically paying peanuts for those lunches. Let's put some real money in there so that those lunches are the best lunch possible. That would do a lot towards addressing chronic disease.
Dana Taylor:
As you know, the cuts to the National Institutes of Health grants of devastated universities across the country. These grants fund research on a wide range of critical things that keep us healthy and keep America at the forefront of medical research. How can universities pivot in this moment to keep these research projects alive?
Dr. Richard Besser:
Well, they can't. That's the bottom line. We are a large philanthropy and we're trying to do our part, but you can't make up for federal dollars. I served in the federal government for 13 years at the CDC under Republican administrations, Democratic administrations. There was always widespread support for the National Institutes of Health. The reason for that is that there's a great recognition that our investment in basic science research, in all the research that NIH does leads to cures, leads to a healthier society.
And that's something that people in both parties could agree on. At CDC, we always envied the support that Congress showed for the National Institutes of Health, because they could go to Capitol Hill and talk to each representative, each senator. And everyone in their life knows someone who has suffered from a disease that they would like to see either prevented or new treatments for, and that has led to that support.
Seeing these dramatic cuts to universities will take what has been one of America's greatest contributions to the entire world, and that's our biotech industry and put us on our heels. We will no longer be looked to for the solutions to the health problems that face people all over the world.
Dana Taylor:
There's something fundamentally essential about the relationship between the Department of Health and Human Services and the American public. Trust in government and institutions in general has been eroding in recent years. But for health, it's so integral to the ability of government to deliver on its promises. How do we build back that trust, especially in this environment?
Dr. Richard Besser:
That's a terrific question. I was very concerned with how trust in public health was undermined during the COVID pandemic. I led CDC at the start of the swine flu pandemic in 2009, and what we saw then was the highest levels of trust in governmental public health that had been seen in any response in US history. And that was done largely by the communication approaches that we took, being direct with the American public, letting people know what we knew, what we didn't know, what we were doing to get answers, what people could do to protect their health.
And the reason that was so effective was that political leaders were standing side by side with the leaders in public health and nodding along and supporting the public health recommendations. What we saw during COVID was a direct demonization of public health by our political leadership. And we're paying the price for that now, because people do not trust public health in the way that they should.
There are also problems in that public health has not always met the needs of people in every community. For some communities, in particular Black and brown communities, the trust wasn't there to begin with. But what we're seeing now is a direct effort by some in government to instill further distrust in public health and the public servants who are there trying to improve the health for people across our country and around the world. And that's absolutely devastating.
Because if people don't believe the recommendations that come from public health, if those recommendations become totally politicized by people who are anti-science and have their own agendas, it will be really, really challenging for people across the country who want to make the best health decisions that they can. I encourage people to try and identify a health provider who they trust, develop that relationship, and go there for information, because that's the best way to ensure that you're getting information that you can use for your own health decisions.
Dana Taylor:
Dr. Besser, thank you so much for being on The Excerpt.
Dr. Richard Besser:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Dana Taylor:
Thanks to our senior producers Shannon Rae Green and Kaely Monahan for their production assistance. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty. Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [e-mail]. Thanks for listening. I'm Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with another episode of The Excerpt.