Ben Te'o: ‘Guys were fighting for spots. After too many drinks sometimes that spills over'
It is 8am, the day before the first British & Irish Lions Test in Brisbane. Te'o has been in demand of late, for the local press wants to know how the Lions measures up against NRL's State of Origin and the former England centre is the only man to both represent the former and play in the latter.
Before we get down to a globe-trotting cross-code career, the booze-fuelled incident that precipitated his departure from England and his transition to coaching, Te'o insists on introducing me to the Broncos superstar Payne Haas. 'A freak,' Te'o enthuses, a union loose forward to die for if he ever made the switch.
This is the second time we have sat down for an interview. The first was six years ago but it never saw the light of day because it was conducted in the buildup to the 2019 World Cup and Te'o was not picked in the final squad. He and Mike Brown were jettisoned by Eddie Jones after clashing during a night out in a pre-tournament training camp in Treviso and that incident is as good a place as any to start.
Te'o scoffs at the idea a 'brawl' broke out, before confessing that he jabbed Brown, the culmination of simmering tension brought about by competition for places in squad. Jones unceremoniously ditched both players, sending the rest of his squad – who went on to reach the final in Japan – a clear message.
'There were a whole lot of guys who were fighting for spots and when you're doing that, things get a little sticky,' says Te'o. 'After too many drinks sometimes that spills over. My regret would be that after a few drinks the confrontation happened whereas it should have just happened before. You should have approached it before you had the drinks, because that blurs the line.
'I thought it galvanised the group and if I was Eddie I would have done the same thing. I don't think Browny was going anyway, I was teetering on not going because I had torn my calf earlier in the camp. Maybe Eddie saw an opportunity, get these two out of here right now, set a standard, make a statement to the rest of the team and put everyone on notice. It worked.'
Almost immediately Te'o signed for Toulon. He was criticised for doing so, for jumping ship, but he wants to set the record straight about his swift exit to the Top 14. Complicating matters, his contract with Worcester had expired and he was a free agent. 'The backstory is I was having issues with the RFU about pay and insurance,' he adds.
'It was getting to the point where I was going to pull out. It kept on going, Eddie was saying it would get sorted and then we have this issue [with Brown] and I'm out [of the squad]. So I'm thinking, I'm [off] because they had not made it easy for me at that time.'
Still, Te'o's eyes light up when recalling his three years in England. Once he had set his heart on union he initially held talks with Michael Cheika about playing for the Wallabies, but Te'o wanted to broaden his horizons and so the recently departed Leicester head coach arranged a two-year stint with Leinster.
'I was in a team with a lot of good people,' says Te'o. 'From going from league to union I had never spent so much time with my teammates. I roomed with Kyle Sinckler and I feel like I lived with Kyle for three years. And I learned so much from Eddie. I'm sitting here as the assistant coach of the Brisbane Broncos. I think I'm only here because of the time I spent with Eddie.
'For the majority of the time I thought I was a really good impact player. Eddie had that phrase, he used to call us the Finishers. It was Mako [Vunipola], Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, George Ford, me and Danny Care and we used to fly off that bench for the last 20 minutes of the game and smash it. We didn't mind being the Finishers.'
In the middle of his England career came the 2017 Lions tour of New Zealand. Te'o finished with 20 England caps but his form in New Zealand – where he grew up – saw him add two more for the Lions in the drawn series. 'I never thought I was going to be a British & Irish Lion,' he adds. 'I was probably at the back of the line and I do feel like I played my way into the team. I was proud of that. My mother is English, I had gone over [to England] purely to play rugby, I then had the opportunity to represent her and ended up in the Lions squad.'
As with Jones, Te'o waxes lyrical about Warren Gatland and believes it was inevitable that Andy Farrell – assistant in 2017 – would one day replace him as Lions head coach. '[Warren] was unbelievable. Now that I'm a bit older and I sit back I think he's one of the best coaches I've ever seen.'
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I wonder if the 2013 Lions tour might have sowed the union seed in Te'o's mind. He does not think so – interestingly, he believes it did for Sam Burgess – but Te'o recalls avidly watching his close friend Israel Folau announce himself on the global union stage and is struck by the similarities between him and Joseph Suaalii.
'Izzy and Joseph are very similar,' adds. 'From a rules point of view, probably raw but from an athletic point of view, exceptional. Big, long, fast, unbelievable in the air. They're the same thing. I reckon [Joseph's] best position will eventually be full-back. You want him touching the ball in more space.'
Te'o's time in Toulon was ill-fated. He was released early on Christmas Eve, spent the night packing and flew back to Australia on Christmas Day. It goes down as one of the many lessons that Te'o is now putting to use as a coach, a transition that came about after Covid curtailed his stint with the Sunwolves in Japan and precipitated a move back to the Broncos, first as a player, now as an assistant coach.
'I just started to think about all the things I had learned on my travels,' says Te'o. 'Being at Worcester, there were some real lessons I learned about always being in a relegation battle. Then being with Eddie and understanding how he would see things tactically and from a psychological point of view, thinking about how Warren brought together a team. So I started thinking to myself: 'I know a fair bit, it would be a waste if I didn't teach it to someone else.''
For now Te'o is settled in Brisbane with a young family but at some point in the future he would like to travel again and coach in union. The 15-man code is ailing in Australia at present but having grown up in New Zealand, where union remains a religion, it is clear Te'o still has a deep connection with the sport.
'Union, it's really fading over here,' he adds. 'Most kids aspire to be rugby league players. People have to understand that rugby league is in your face, it's everywhere. If you pick up the paper, it's rugby league. Turn on the TV, league, social media, league. All the podcasts, league. It's everywhere and rugby union is just not.
'I love both games. I love union more, to be honest, as a game, when it's played the right way. I don't want to be one of those people that says 'back in my day' but Super 12 rugby was phenomenal. As a kid growing up in New Zealand it was phenomenal.
'Rugby league is a great foundation as a coach so I'll stay here but my long-term goal is to travel and coach rugby union. When I first retired from footy, I also coached a second XV side at a local college up the road. Honestly, coaching the second XV was more fun than you could imagine. If union is played in an entertaining way, you can't beat it.'
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