'Outright hostility' between Wab Kinew, Obby Khan unbecoming of their offices: experts
The heated exchange at an estimates meeting has been denounced as inappropriate behaviour by political experts who have observed Manitoba politics for decades.
They say the episode underscores the acrimony between the governing NDP and the Opposition Progressive Conservatives that derailed legislature business during the recently completed spring sitting.
The NDP threatened during the last week of the session to extend the sitting into the summer if the PCs wouldn't fast-track the government's interprovincial trade bill, while the Progressive Conservatives kept MLAs awake through the night on Monday, the last sitting day, when they demanded recorded votes on bills the NDP's majority government would certainly pass.
Christopher Adams, an adjunct professor of political studies at the University of Manitoba, said there appears to be "deep-seated antagonism" between the party leaders.
"When we see this banter and hostility — it's actual outright hostility — it's tough on Manitobans to see that," he said.
WATCH | Kinew and Khan trade barbs in charged committee meeting:
While aggressive, rigorous questioning of government and heckling are routine parts of question period in the legislature, the exchange between Kinew and Khan came at a May 21 estimates meeting, where more substantive exchanges around policy are expected and media attention is minimal.
And unlike question period, the Speaker of the House, whose duties include keeping the peace in the chamber, doesn't preside over meetings in the committee rooms. That meant the heckling and personal attacks at the estimates meeting persisted, with only the occasional interruption by the chairperson.
While these meetings can be charged — former premier Brian Pallister called Kinew an "asshole" during a 2021 committee meeting, before apologizing that same meeting — the behaviour in this case lasted for several minutes at a time.
Paul Thomas, professor emeritus of political studies at the University of Manitoba, said the discussion was "reduced to hurling personal insults at one another and ad hominem arguments based on the character of your political opponent across the aisle in the committee room."
"I just found it disappointing."
'Low blows' at committee meeting
The estimates meeting began with Khan rattling off statistics that, he argued, demonstrated a slowing economy.
"All signs that this premier has officially killed the economic horse," said the PC leader, putting his spin on one of the premier's regular talking points: "the economic horse pulls the social cart."
Khan's pointed criticism led Kinew to start heckling and laughing.
The Tory leader then turned to one of the cameras in the room, which was broadcasting the meeting on YouTube.
"You can probably hear him laughing with his arrogance and his demeanour, where Manitobans are actually serious about the economy. Premier thinks it's a joke. We don't," Khan said.
"No, I think the leader of the Official Opposition is a joke," Kinew said.
Many of Kinew's heckles were hard to hear on the broadcast, but some were included in the Hansard transcription.
"It's unfortunate that the premier wants to use such language, but it's OK," Khan said, according to Hansard.
Later, the NDP leader called Khan a "joke" again.
"If he wanted to talk about what is a joke, I think the premier just needs to look in the mirror," Khan said.
"If we want to talk about records and we want to talk about the past, then we can talk about the premier's criminal record," Khan added, before the chairperson asked for the discussion to return to legislative business.
Thomas said the comments from both leaders were "low blows."
"If anything, it turns the public off" from politics, he said.
"It deepens their cynicism about politicians, weakens their trust and confidence in the governing process, and that's not healthy in a democracy."
Later in the May 21 committee meeting, as Kinew kept trying to talk over Khan, the Opposition leader responded by saying he hoped Manitobans watching on YouTube could hear how the premier is "nothing but a bully."
"Like when you cried in the scrum," Kinew blurted, likely a reference to 2023, when a tearful Khan described a tense handshake with Kinew.
"The premier is trying to, I don't know, emotionally attack me for saying that I've cried in the House," Khan said.
"So what? There's nothing wrong with a man having emotions."
The verbal clashes continued.
Khan dismissed the premier as a "pit bull attack dog" and a "toxic, bullying leader" — demonstrated, he said, by Kinew's previous run-ins with the law.
The now 43-year-old has openly admitted to a conviction for impaired driving and for assaulting a cab driver in his early 20s — offences for which he has received pardons. He was given a conditional discharge in 2004 for an assault in Ontario, and was charged with assaulting his partner in 2003. The latter charge was stayed, although his former partner maintains Kinew threw her across the room.
At the May 21 meeting, Khan also called Mark Rosner, Kinew's chief of staff, a "nightmare," reframing a comment Kinew once made calling Rosner the "Tories' worst nightmare."
Kinew called for a point of order, saying his comments were misrepresented.
Later, when the Opposition leader made a comment referring to the premier, Kinew responded by saying, "call me dad," according to the meeting transcription.
"Maybe that's what he gets, you know, people around Manitoba to call him — maybe staffers call him 'dad,'" Khan said.
Tense exchange in 2023
The feud between Kinew and Khan may have started in 2023 with a handshake at a public event in the legislature.
They have different explanations of the encounter. Though it was captured on security video, that hasn't put to rest what happened.
Khan, who was then a cabinet minister, alleges Kinew — the opposition leader at the time — swore and shoved him. Kinew denied that, calling it a "tense verbal exchange."
WATCH | Security camera footage of 2023 exchange between Kinew and Khan:
Video of Wab Kinew-Obby Khan confrontation released
2 years ago
Duration 0:38
This past April, when Khan became leader of the Progressive Conservatives, Kinew didn't phone to congratulate him.
Asked by reporters why he didn't try to speak with Khan, Kinew responded that "no one ever reached out and congratulated me," when he became NDP leader.
That excuse, Thomas said, amounts to a "schoolyard approach," with both men figuratively arguing over who hit the other first.
"It just shows the lapse in respect and civility across the aisle," Thomas said.
Kinew also didn't congratulate Khan in the chamber during their first question period as opposing leaders, although he, as Official Opposition leader, congratulated new premier Heather Stefanson in 2022.
When Kinew became NDP leader in 2017, he was congratulated by Pallister. In 2012, then premier Greg Selinger welcomed Pallister during his first question period as Tory leader.
The University of Manitoba's Adams said the perceived animosity between Kinew and Khan essentially gives each party's caucus permission to snipe at one another, which doesn't set a good example.
"We need our politicians, both on the Opposition benches as well as in the government, to behave with decorum and also not to take the bait," he said.
The hostility has reached the point where the NDP is having difficulty launching something as basic as a promised all-party committee on local journalism, Thomas said.
Asked about his conduct at the recent estimates meeting, Khan said he could "always try to act better," but argued the premier started it.
"Manitobans need to see this side of the premier," Khan said. "They need to be concerned with the language he uses."
Khan, however, denied having any ill will toward Kinew.
CBC News tried for a week and a half to interview Kinew about this story, but his office declined.
This week, CBC News asked his spokesperson, Ryan Stelter, when Kinew would have time for an interview, but was told he wouldn't be made available.
Stelter said the premier was in Ottawa to meet with federal ministers when the request was made, and shortly after, a provincewide state of emergency was declared because of wildfires. Kinew has had a few media availabilities, Stelter said. However, they were focused on the emergency.
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