I thought Kim Williams was the wrong pick to lead the ABC. Now I'm sure
Gutman played the antisemite card with Williams. Was Gutman being rejected because he was Jewish? This will be the first time Gutman ever made me laugh. What complete nonsense. The ABC hosts Jews of all kinds, from the Jewish Board of Deputies to the Jewish Council of Australia. They aren't antisemitic. They are anti-boring. They are anti-out-of-date. The ABC is not there to provide free publicity for pub gigs.
Besser again: 'The comedian would have the last laugh, however, because as these regional bureaus soon learnt, Sandy Gutman had a man on the inside, none other than Kim Williams, chairman of the ABC.'
Yes, Gutman dropped the chair's name – not that there's anything wrong with that. Name-dropping is not yet a crime in this country (although, yes please).
Then Williams himself actually intervened. Turns out the chair had also been lobbying on his behalf in a series of correspondence with those much further down the ABC food chain. Head of audio, Ben Latimer, who also played a part in the Antoinette Lattouf fiasco. He then tried to widen his influence by copying Donna Field in on a giant mess of his own creation.
The way it's meant to go is that if the chair wants to discuss what's going on within the organisation, he deals with the managing director, who was then David Anderson and is now Hugh Marks. Which Latimer is not, although I'm sure he has ambitions. Why didn't Williams call Justin Stevens? Haha. Reckon Stevens would have told him to bugger off.
You would have to presume it's not just Gutman. If you love to wield power and influence, you aren't going to waste it on someone whose last mildly interesting work was 40 years ago.
I have so many questions.
Why would you intervene on behalf of an 'acquaintance'? Media Watch scored a response from the chair, who said he and Gutman had a 'brief involvement some 27 years ago'. This is completely un-understandable.
Let me tell you what people who've worked with Williams in the past have said about the challenges of working with him: 'Good boards have a very clear distinction between governance and operations and operational stuff, in a media company, even more so.'
And look what Hugh Marks said today: 'I have been at the ABC a short time, but I am vigilant to ensure the proper delineation of responsibility between the board and management, and will act appropriately to ensure the best interests of the ABC, its people and audiences as we move forward.'
Same.
So, is this what Williams is doing with his time? You would have to presume it's not just Gutman. The former comedian is a nobody in the scheme of things. If you love to wield power and influence, you aren't going to waste it on someone whose last mildly interesting work was 40 years ago.
Loading
Editorial independence matters more than anything I can think of. It's why journalists at Nine went absolutely ballistic when Hugh Marks held a $10,000-per-head Liberal Party at the media organisation's headquarters in 2019. It's why journalists from The Australian are trying to get out of there as fast as they can.
As another former board member told me, 'This was an editorial decision, and a media board should never get involved. The board's job is to ensure strategy is right, to develop risk frames, to choose the right CEO.'
It's not to decide who should be on local radio.
The thing is, this story about Gutman and Williams has been circulating since December, when the widely adored Sarah Macdonald was peremptorily dumped from her spot. Oh my god. I do not think my phone has ever run hotter than that moment. People told me about the existence of emails from Williams. Responses to emails. And I love that new and lovely Media Watch presenter Linton Besser and his team kept going until they could stand it up a week ago. Two things: awesome to observe the courage of standing up to management, and I hear they've been inundated with love from within and without.
My only wish is that Williams is dumped. Or he could display some courage himself and quit. Then I hope he is replaced by someone who understands what it means to be a chair of an organisation like the ABC. We aren't meant to hear from them but from the people who work for them. Advice to governments: stop choosing celebrity chairs.
Maybe vote for David Thodey. Never heard of him? Good.
Hashtags

Try Our AI Features
Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:
Comments
No comments yet...
Related Articles


ABC News
7 hours ago
- ABC News
Andy And The Band: Rock Star Magic
Andy And The Band: Rock Star Magic ABC Kids Music & Movement Friendship Watch Duration: 24 minutes 14 seconds 24 m Article share options Share this on Facebook Twitter Send this by Email Copy link WhatsApp Messenger With less an hour to go, the band and students launch into action to put on the best show possible to save the school. Little do they know, some Rock Star Magic might help...

The Age
8 hours ago
- The Age
Want to ditch screens? Here are the top podcasts for kids
A few years back, I was Team Velociraptor by a large margin, curled up listening to a podcast with my T-Rex-loving grandson. Sucked in by the set-up. A race between two dinosaur species through weird terrains of all kinds. Over 14 or so minutes, University of Queensland palaeontologist Tim Richards and ABC sports editor Amanda Shalala call the contest, like it was happening before their eyes. Survivor for the ears, but 200 times more thrilling. Fart jokes, puns, actual palaeontological facts, bone length, permutations of teeth and a script which sounds like it was written by a football commentator. No wonder it gets fan mail and the reward of nearly seven million downloads. This is ABC Kids' Dino Dome. At the end of June, a new season drops. Not that I don't love listening to T versus V for the umpteenth time or the explanation of why reptiles are not dinosaurs and pterodactyls can't fly. But I'm ready for new racers. From June 26, it's a special 'knock-out' format. Listeners will know the competing dinosaurs ahead of time as they face off in a round-robin. They won't tell me who is in the first round, but Richards says this season they will race Australia's most complete pterosaur. And what's the mystery? 'It's really hard to know when pterosaurs went to the bathroom because they have a silent p.' Dinosaur jokes. Works for me. How did I end up being obsessed with a kids' podcast? Grandkids. Obviously. There doesn't seem to be any curated guides to the best children's podcasts, so I'm sharing what I found, what I love, and what others suggested. All of them, the kind you can listen to with little ones, big ones or even by yourself. So what's on my list besides dinosaurs? Nature. History. Difficult life questions. Unless you possess superhuman patience, it is not possible to keep reading books to your kids/grandkids/small humans in your care until they have had their fill. They have never had enough. Podcasts fill the gap. Kyla Slaven, a former UTS radio lecturer and then parent of a 10-year-old, had a wild idea about a decade ago: to create podcasts for kids. I thought she was completely mad, especially when she pitched Short and Curly (ABC), an ethics podcast. Yet, her foresight proved true. The very first episode in 2016, Can you trust a robot?, now seems eerily prescient. Podcasts, Slaven says, enable family listening in a way that live radio can't. When I asked Helen Adam about the value of podcasts for children, her response went beyond simply filling a void in the market. Adam, an Associate Professor at Edith Cowan University and the president of the Primary English Teachers Association of Australia, has dedicated 42 years to researching how children learn to read. She says podcasts serve as a 'bridge into reading and loving books'. Crucially, this bridge leads away from video clips and cartoons – which, despite their undeniable charm (love you Bingo, on behalf of all younger sisters), ultimately only lead back to more screen time. 'When you are watching, you are just a viewer. When you are reading or listening, you become those characters. It builds kids' background in patterns of language in how texts are put together, storylines, words, phrases. These are great benefits for language acquisition for kids,' says Adam. 'When you read, the neural pathways are similar to actually living that experience. And when you listen, it develops language comprehension.' Turns out, podcasters could tell there was a need. Ann Jones, host of Noisy By Nature (ABC), says parents want engaging content without turning kids into zombies . Parents want lots of choice because kids are repeat listeners (as my velociraptor vs T-rex experience reveals). Loading Children, it seems, form an immediate bond with podcasts. Jones now experiences people approaching her on the street, and parents send her videos of their children mimicking her. Her favourite episode Noi-SEA: Humming Continental Shelf stars a dugong sounding like a cow, what sounds like a vacuum cleaner and the best real underwater sounds you've ever heard. Jones says kids start consuming media almost from birth, highlighting the crucial juncture when media literacy must begin. What's true? What's not? And what powers our imaginations? New research also shows that podcasts for children often feature an even wider vocabulary than those aimed at adults, thereby stretching the word stocks of kids too. Also, the heartstrings. Take this. 'Hey, how do you remember your family back home?' Trust me, your eyes will start to prickle with tears when you hear this question – about whether kids who were convicts stayed in touch with their families – in Hey History! (UTS, Latrobe, HTA NSW and Impact Studios) Many adult podcasts boil down to a couple of old mates having a laughing competition. Not that there's anything wrong with that. However, many of the children's podcasts recommended to me by various adults, children, and teachers would never neatly fit into the 'entertainment' category. Anna Clark, a history professor, mother to Hey History!'s narrator Axel, and granddaughter of Australia's eminent historian Manning Clark, has for two decades been driven to reform how history is taught. Hey History!, which won gold at this year's NYF Radio Awards for Best Children's Program, is her latest tool. She is executive producer of the podcast alongside Professor Clare Wright. Drawing on decades of research in history education, she wanted to create a resource for primary teachers (most of whom have done little or no Australian history since their own Year 10). When I read the word resource, I cringe. Not this time. And that's partly due to narrator Axel, 15, a persuasive actor. The podcast's producer asked Axel to audition and offered him the role, for which he gets paid. (I ask him to tell me the worst thing about working with his mother. I assure him her feelings won't get hurt. 'She can take it,' I say. 'I know she can't,' he deadpans.) Loading Most of these podcasts are what Lulu Miller, queen of children's podcasts and host of Radiolab's Terrestrials, calls intergenerational. Anyone can listen and love what they are hearing. Here's how Miller describes the premise for Terrestrials: 'We are scouring the earth to bring very narrative stories which seem like fairytales, that seem like adventure stories about episode is fact-checked, it's 100 per cent true.' You have to listen to the episode on the silence of the bees. 'Is it a new disease? Is it because of pesticides? Maybe it's the cell phones!' Spoiler alert: it's not the mobile phones. But around 2006, farmers across the US opened their beehives to find them empty. Terrestrials delves into why, featuring experts, didgeridoos, and genuine narrative tension. Turns out most children's podcasts do a brilliant job of bringing it altogether: the tension, the narration, the music, and enough real experts to help us all understand and inspire further learning. Want more suggestions? Museum Victoria's The Fact Detectives (now out of production but loads of episodes still). National Geographic's Greeking Out, Theo and Matt (a truly sweet father-reading-to-his-child dynamic), and Imagine This (ABC).

Sydney Morning Herald
8 hours ago
- Sydney Morning Herald
Want to ditch screens? Here are the top podcasts for kids
A few years back, I was Team Velociraptor by a large margin, curled up listening to a podcast with my T-Rex-loving grandson. Sucked in by the set-up. A race between two dinosaur species through weird terrains of all kinds. Over 14 or so minutes, University of Queensland palaeontologist Tim Richards and ABC sports editor Amanda Shalala call the contest, like it was happening before their eyes. Survivor for the ears, but 200 times more thrilling. Fart jokes, puns, actual palaeontological facts, bone length, permutations of teeth and a script which sounds like it was written by a football commentator. No wonder it gets fan mail and the reward of nearly seven million downloads. This is ABC Kids' Dino Dome. At the end of June, a new season drops. Not that I don't love listening to T versus V for the umpteenth time or the explanation of why reptiles are not dinosaurs and pterodactyls can't fly. But I'm ready for new racers. From June 26, it's a special 'knock-out' format. Listeners will know the competing dinosaurs ahead of time as they face off in a round-robin. They won't tell me who is in the first round, but Richards says this season they will race Australia's most complete pterosaur. And what's the mystery? 'It's really hard to know when pterosaurs went to the bathroom because they have a silent p.' Dinosaur jokes. Works for me. How did I end up being obsessed with a kids' podcast? Grandkids. Obviously. There doesn't seem to be any curated guides to the best children's podcasts, so I'm sharing what I found, what I love, and what others suggested. All of them, the kind you can listen to with little ones, big ones or even by yourself. So what's on my list besides dinosaurs? Nature. History. Difficult life questions. Unless you possess superhuman patience, it is not possible to keep reading books to your kids/grandkids/small humans in your care until they have had their fill. They have never had enough. Podcasts fill the gap. Kyla Slaven, a former UTS radio lecturer and then parent of a 10-year-old, had a wild idea about a decade ago: to create podcasts for kids. I thought she was completely mad, especially when she pitched Short and Curly (ABC), an ethics podcast. Yet, her foresight proved true. The very first episode in 2016, Can you trust a robot?, now seems eerily prescient. Podcasts, Slaven says, enable family listening in a way that live radio can't. When I asked Helen Adam about the value of podcasts for children, her response went beyond simply filling a void in the market. Adam, an Associate Professor at Edith Cowan University and the president of the Primary English Teachers Association of Australia, has dedicated 42 years to researching how children learn to read. She says podcasts serve as a 'bridge into reading and loving books'. Crucially, this bridge leads away from video clips and cartoons – which, despite their undeniable charm (love you Bingo, on behalf of all younger sisters), ultimately only lead back to more screen time. 'When you are watching, you are just a viewer. When you are reading or listening, you become those characters. It builds kids' background in patterns of language in how texts are put together, storylines, words, phrases. These are great benefits for language acquisition for kids,' says Adam. 'When you read, the neural pathways are similar to actually living that experience. And when you listen, it develops language comprehension.' Turns out, podcasters could tell there was a need. Ann Jones, host of Noisy By Nature (ABC), says parents want engaging content without turning kids into zombies . Parents want lots of choice because kids are repeat listeners (as my velociraptor vs T-rex experience reveals). Loading Children, it seems, form an immediate bond with podcasts. Jones now experiences people approaching her on the street, and parents send her videos of their children mimicking her. Her favourite episode Noi-SEA: Humming Continental Shelf stars a dugong sounding like a cow, what sounds like a vacuum cleaner and the best real underwater sounds you've ever heard. Jones says kids start consuming media almost from birth, highlighting the crucial juncture when media literacy must begin. What's true? What's not? And what powers our imaginations? New research also shows that podcasts for children often feature an even wider vocabulary than those aimed at adults, thereby stretching the word stocks of kids too. Also, the heartstrings. Take this. 'Hey, how do you remember your family back home?' Trust me, your eyes will start to prickle with tears when you hear this question – about whether kids who were convicts stayed in touch with their families – in Hey History! (UTS, Latrobe, HTA NSW and Impact Studios) Many adult podcasts boil down to a couple of old mates having a laughing competition. Not that there's anything wrong with that. However, many of the children's podcasts recommended to me by various adults, children, and teachers would never neatly fit into the 'entertainment' category. Anna Clark, a history professor, mother to Hey History!'s narrator Axel, and granddaughter of Australia's eminent historian Manning Clark, has for two decades been driven to reform how history is taught. Hey History!, which won gold at this year's NYF Radio Awards for Best Children's Program, is her latest tool. She is executive producer of the podcast alongside Professor Clare Wright. Drawing on decades of research in history education, she wanted to create a resource for primary teachers (most of whom have done little or no Australian history since their own Year 10). When I read the word resource, I cringe. Not this time. And that's partly due to narrator Axel, 15, a persuasive actor. The podcast's producer asked Axel to audition and offered him the role, for which he gets paid. (I ask him to tell me the worst thing about working with his mother. I assure him her feelings won't get hurt. 'She can take it,' I say. 'I know she can't,' he deadpans.) Loading Most of these podcasts are what Lulu Miller, queen of children's podcasts and host of Radiolab's Terrestrials, calls intergenerational. Anyone can listen and love what they are hearing. Here's how Miller describes the premise for Terrestrials: 'We are scouring the earth to bring very narrative stories which seem like fairytales, that seem like adventure stories about episode is fact-checked, it's 100 per cent true.' You have to listen to the episode on the silence of the bees. 'Is it a new disease? Is it because of pesticides? Maybe it's the cell phones!' Spoiler alert: it's not the mobile phones. But around 2006, farmers across the US opened their beehives to find them empty. Terrestrials delves into why, featuring experts, didgeridoos, and genuine narrative tension. Turns out most children's podcasts do a brilliant job of bringing it altogether: the tension, the narration, the music, and enough real experts to help us all understand and inspire further learning. Want more suggestions? Museum Victoria's The Fact Detectives (now out of production but loads of episodes still). National Geographic's Greeking Out, Theo and Matt (a truly sweet father-reading-to-his-child dynamic), and Imagine This (ABC).