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Transcript: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on 'Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,' June 1, 2025
The following is the transcript of an interview with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent that aired on 'Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan' on June 1, 2025. MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning and welcome to 'Face the Nation.' We begin today with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Good morning and thank you for being here. SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Morning, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: There's so much to get to. I want to start with China, because the Defense Secretary just said there's an imminent military threat from China to Taiwan. Days earlier, Secretary Rubio said he'd aggressively revoked Chinese student visas. On top of that, you have curbing exports to China. Trade talks you said with Beijing are stalled, and President Trump just accused China of violating an agreement, and now says no more, 'Mr. Nice Guy.' Are you intentionally escalating this standoff with Beijing? SEC. BESSENT: Well, I don't think it's intentional. I- I think that what Secretary Hegseth did was remind everyone that during COVID, China was an unreliable partner, and what we are trying to do is to de-risk. We do not want to decouple Margaret, but we do need to de-risk, as we saw during COVID, whether it was with semiconductors, medicines, the other products we are in the process of de-risking. MARGARET BRENNAN: Making the United States less reliant on China, but at the same– SEC. BESSENT: –Well, and the whole world. The whole world, because what China is doing is they are holding back products that are essential for the industrial supply chains of India, of Europe, and that is not what a reliable partner does. MARGARET BRENNAN: So is that like- what specifically is President Trump saying when he says they are violating an agreement? Because it was the one you negotiated in Geneva earlier this month. And what's the consequence for that? SEC. BESSENT: Well, we will see what the consequences are. I am confident that when President Trump and party Chairman Xi have a call, that this will be ironed out. So- but the fact that they are withholding some of the products that they agreed to release during our agreement- maybe it's a glitch in the Chinese system, maybe it's intentional. We'll see after the President speaks with party chairman. MARGARET BRENNAN: That's critical minerals, rare earths. Is that what you're talking about? SEC. BESSENT: Yes. MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the President has said a few times that he was going to speak to President Xi, but he hasn't since before the inauguration. Beijing keeps denying that there was any contact. Do you have anything scheduled? SEC. BESSENT: I believe we'll see something very soon, Margaret. MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have a conversation with your counterpart or Lutnick with his counterpart at the commerce level? SEC. BESSENT: Well, I think we're going to let the two principles have a conversation, and then everything will stem from that. MARGARET BRENNAN: JP Morgan CEO, Jamie Dimon, spoke this week at an economic forum, and he gave this read on Beijing. (SOT) JAMIE DIMON: I just got back from China last week. They're not scared, folks. This notion they're gonna come bow to America. I wouldn't count on that. And when they have a problem, they put 100,000 engineers on it, and they've been preparing for this for years. (END SOT) MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you underestimated the Chinese state's backbone here? SEC. BESSENT: Again, Margaret, I hope it doesn't come to that. And Jamie is a great banker. I know him well, but I would vociferously disagree with that assessment, that the laws of economics and gravity apply to the Chinese economy and the Chinese system, just like everyone else. MARGARET BRENNAN: But when you were last here in March, we were trying to gauge what the impact of the standoff with China and with the tariffs on the rest of the world would do for American consumers here at home. At that time, you told us you were going to appoint an affordability czar and council to figure out five, you said, or eight areas where there will be some pain for working class Americans. Where are you anticipating price increases? SEC. BESSENT: Well, thus far- we wanted to make sure that there aren't price increases, Margaret. And thus far there have been no price increases. Everything has been alarmist, that the inflation numbers are actually dropping. We saw the first drop of inflation in four years. The inflation numbers last week, they were very- the- pro-consumer. We've– MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but you listen to earnings calls just like we do. You know what Walmart's saying, what Best Buy's saying and what Target are saying of what's coming– SEC. BESSENT: But Margaret, I also know what Home Depot and Amazon are saying. I know what the South China Morning Post wrote within the past 24 hours that 65%- 65%- the- of the tariffs will likely be eaten by the Chinese producers. MARGARET BRENNAN: So are there five or eight areas that you have identified, as you said back in March, where American consumers will be able to have lower prices, or should be warned of higher prices? SEC. BESSENT: Well, a lot of it's already working its way through the system. So we've seen a substantial decrease in gasoline and energy prices. So that's down 20% year over year. We've seen the food prices go down, these notorious egg prices. Through the good work of President Trump and Secretary Rollins, egg prices have collapsed. So we're seeing more and more. And what we want to do- the- is even that out across the all sections of the economy. So inflation has been very tame. Consumer earnings were up 0.8% last month, which is a gigantic increase for one month. So real earnings minus low inflation is great for the American people, and that's what we're seeing. MARGARET BRENNAN: But you know, because when you met with the Chinese earlier this month and you went down from the 145% tariff down to about- it's like 30%. 30%'s not nothing, that tax on goods coming in here. Retailers are warning of price hikes– SEC. BESSENT: Well, so– MARGARET BRENNAN: When you go back to school shopping, things are going to cost more. SEC. BESSENT: But Margaret, some are and some aren't. Home Depot and Amazon said they're not. MARGARET BRENNAN: Home Depot and Amazon aren't where you go for your back school shopping, when you buy your jeans, when you buy your crayons, and you buy all those things that parents– SEC. BESSENT: I don't know about you, but I do it online at Amazon. This isn't an advertisement for Amazon. And guess where most of the Halloween costumes in America get bought? At Home Depot. So that's just not right. There's a wide aperture here. Different companies are doing different things. They are making decisions based on their customers, what they think they're able to pass along to their customers, what they want to do to keep their customers. And I was in the investment business for 35 years, Margaret, and I will tell you earnings calls- they have to give the worst case scenario, because if it- if they haven't and something bad happens, then they'll be sued. MARGARET BRENNAN: It's not always the worst case. It's the most probable case– SEC. BESSENT: –No, no, no– MARGARET BRENNAN: as well– SEC. BESSENT: –No, no, no. No, they have to give the worst case. MARGARET BRENNAN: So Walmart- there was just a piece published with the conservative strategist Karl Rove. I'm not asking about politics, because he is a political strategist, but he went in on the math here. And he points out that Walmart has a profit margin of less than 3%. He says, 'If it does what Mr. Trump says, eat the tariffs, it can't break even. It can't absorb the cost of an imported pair of kids jeans with a 46% tariff on Vietnam, a 37% tariff for Bangladesh, or 32% tariff on sneakers from Indonesia. Other companies are in the same pickle.' So should companies cut back on the amount of goods they have on their shelves or just on their profitability? SEC. BESSENT: That- that's a decision company by- by company, Margaret. And I had a long discussion with Doug McMillon, the CEO of Walmart, and they're going to do what's right for them. MARGARET BRENNAN: But for consumers, the reality is there will either be less inventory or things at higher prices, or both. SEC. BESSENT: Margaret, when we were here in March, you said there was going to be big inflation. There hasn't been any inflation. Actually, the inflation numbers are the best in four years. So why don't we stop trying to say this could happen, and wait and see what does happen. MARGARET BRENNAN: Just trying to gauge for people planning ahead here, one of the things the President said on Friday is that he's going to double the tariffs on steel and aluminum up to 50%, effective June 4. How much will that impact the construction industry? SEC. BESSENT: Well, I think- I was with the president at the U.S. Steel Plant in Pittsburgh on Friday, and I will tell you that the President has the- reignited the steel industry here in America. And back to the earlier statements on national security. There are national security priorities here for having a strong steel industry. MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you have a prediction on how much it's going to impact the construction industry, for example? SEC. BESSENT: Well, I have a prediction on how much it's going to impact the steel industry, and you know, again, we- we'll see there are a lot of elasticities that- you know this is a very complicated ecosystem. So is it going to impact the construction industry, maybe. But it's going to impact the steel industry, the- in a great way. The steel workers, again, were left on the side of the road after the China shock, and now they're back that the- they are Trump supporters. And when I tell you that it was magic in the arena, or it was actually at the steel plant that night, that these hard working Americans know their jobs are secure, there's going to be capital investment, and the number of jobs is going to be grown around the country, whether it's in Pittsburgh, whether it's in Arkansas, whether it's in Alabama. MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about this big tax bill that worked through the House, is going to the Senate next. In it is increase or suspension to the debt limit that you need delivered on by mid-July. How close of a brush with default could this be, given how massive some of the Senate changes are expected to be to the other parts of the bill? SEC. BESSENT: Well, first of all, Margaret, I will say the United States of America is never going to default. That is never going to happen. That- we are on the warning track and we will never hit the wall. MARGARET BRENNAN: You have more wiggle room if they don't deliver this by mid-July? I mean, how hard of a date is this? SEC. BESSENT: That- we don't give out the X date because we use that to move the bill forward. MARGARET BRENNAN: Sometimes deadlines help force action, as you know, particularly in this town, sir, that's why I'm asking. The President did say he- he expects pretty significant changes to this bill, though, so that affects the timing of it moving. What would you like Republican lawmakers to keep? What would you like them to alter? SEC. BESSENT: Again, that's going to be the Senate's decision. Leader Thune, who I've worked closely with during this process, has been doing a fantastic job. And Margaret, I'll point out, everyone said that Speaker Johnson would not be able to get this bill out of the house with his slim majority. He got it out Leader Thune has a bigger majority, and this is with President Trump's leadership. So– MARGARET BRENNAN: –There's no red lines for you in there of just don't touch this you can, you know, tinker with that. SEC. BESSENT: Well, I- I think that they're not necessarily my red lines. The President has the- his campaign promises that he wants to fulfill for working Americans. So no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security, deductibility of auto loans for American made automobiles. MARGARET BRENNAN: So those have to stay in. SEC. BESSENT: Those have to stay in. MARGARET BRENNAN: JP Morgan's Dimon also predicted a debt market crisis. 'Cracks in the bond market' was what he said. You are considering easing some regulations, you've said, for the big banks. How do you avoid that bond market crisis he's predicting, spreading and really causing concern, particularly with all of the worries about American debt right now? SEC. BESSENT: So again, I've known Jamie a long time and for his entire career he's made predictions like this. Fortunately, none of them have come true. That's why he's a banker- a great banker. He tries to look around the corner. One of the reasons I'm sitting here talking to you today and not at home watching your show is that I was concerned about the level of debt. So the deficit this year is going to be lower than the deficit last year, and in two years it will be lower again. We are going to bring the deficit down slowly. We didn't get here in one year. We didn't get here in one year, and this has been a long process. So the goal is to bring it down over the next four years, leave the country in great shape in 2028. MARGARET BRENNAN: You know that the Speaker of the House estimates this is going to add four to five trillion dollars over the next 10 years, and there's that debt limit increase. SEC. BESSENT: Well again, Margaret, that's CBO scoring. MARGARET BRENNAN: That's the Speaker of the House. SEC. BESSENT: No, no, no. MARGARET BRENNAN: He said it last Sunday on this program. SEC. BESSENT: The- he said that's the CBO scoring. Let me– MARGARET BRENNAN: –No, he said that sounds right. SEC. BESSENT: Let me tell you what's not included in there, what can't be scored. So we're taking in substantial tariff income right now, so that there are estimates that that could be another 2 trillion that we are the- pushing through savings. So you know my estimate is that could be up to another 100 billion a year. So over the 10 year window, that could be a trillion. President has a prescription drug plan with the pharmaceutical companies that could substantially push down costs for prescription drugs, and that could be another trillion. So there's the four. MARGARET BRENNAN: Treasury Secretary Bessent, we'll be watching closely what happens next. 'Face the Nation' will be back in a minute, so stay with us.
CNBC
12-05-2025
- Business
- CNBC
CNBC Excerpts: United States Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent Speaks with CNBC's 'Squawk Box' Today
WHEN: Today, Monday, May 12, 2025 WHERE: CNBC's "Squawk Box" Following are excerpts from the unofficial transcript of a CNBC interview with United States Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on CNBC's "Squawk Box" (M-F, 6AM-9AM ET) today, Monday, May 12. Following are links to video on and All references must be sourced to CNBC. BESSENT ON UNITED STATES AND CHINA RELATIONS BESSENT: I would characterize it very much as President Trump, the equivalent of President Trump's relationship with party Chairman Xi. They have a good relationship, but they both advocate strongly for their respective countries, for their respective citizens. So it was always respectful. We have the two largest economies in the world. We were firm and we moved forward. We tried to identify shared interests. We came with a list of problems that we were trying to solve, and I think we did a good job on that. BESSENT ON 90 DAY PAUSE BESSENT: This is a 90 day pause for our tariff program. We had a plan, we had a process. And now what we have with the Chinese is a mechanism to avoid the upward tariff pressure like we did last time. So this is a 90 day pause. BESSENT ON CHINA DUAL CIRCULATION BESSENT: Dual circulation means export and domestic use. Dual circulation cannot mean that China overproduces and that only Chinese goods are consumed in China, and then they export the excess to the rest of the world. So we have had the equivalent because of these high tariff rates of an embargo on China, and those goods are going to leak to the rest of the world. So, you know, our negotiations, we don't need to tell other countries what they need to do. They are seeing this wave of Chinese goods coming to their shore. They have to find a home, and that could be at a discount price, undercutting local producers. BESSE ON DECOUPLING BESSENT: We do not want a generalized decoupling from China. But what we do want is a decoupling for strategic necessities, which we were unable to obtain during Covid and we realized that efficient supply chains were not resilient supply chains. BESSENT ON GOAL TO OPEN CHINA FOR AMERICAN BUSINESSES BESSENT: One of the goals here is to open China for American businesses in a fair way. We want American businesses to be able to sell into China. And part of the goal is bringing down these unfair non-tariff trade barriers and that's what we will be focusing on. BESSENT ON TARIFFS BESSENT: If we were going to see any kind of an economic downside from that, it would already be apparent, I would think. And the economic data has surprised on the upside. And now that we have brought these very high tariffs down to 10%, I think the markets, business people live in the future. So, I think we can go through at that 10% baseline, which is very easily, easy to calibrate with.
CNBC
05-05-2025
- Business
- CNBC
CNBC Transcript: United States Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent Speaks with CNBC's Sara Eisen on 'Money Movers' Today
WHEN: Today, Monday, May 5, 2025 WHERE: CNBC's "Money Movers" Following is the unofficial transcript of a CNBC interview with United States Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on CNBC's "Money Movers" (M-F, 11AM-12PM ET) today, Monday, May 5. Following are links to video on and All references must be sourced to CNBC. SARA EISEN: Alright, we are joined now by the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, just off stage here at the Milken Conference. Such a pleasure having you. SCOTT BESSENT: Good morning. EISEN: So you if I had to distill your message just now, now is the time to invest in America. Is that what you're telling investors? And why now? BESSENT: Well, the message is that the economic program is a three-part stool. Everyone's focused on trade, but there's trade, there's tax, and there's dereg. I, you were talking about it earlier. EISEN: Yes, three prongs. BESSENT: The three prongs. And you shouldn't look at them in isolation. So what we are trying to do, the U.S. is the best place to invest, and we're trying to accelerate that. EISEN: As far as the tax deal, I know you're knee-deep in that, as you are in some of the trade negotiations. How do you think about the growth impact? Because some people say, oh, it's just an extension of what we have now, so we're not going to see a big stimulus. BESSENT: Well, what's not an extension is the 100 percent expensing. So that has stepped down over the past few years. So we're going to go back to 100 percent expensing for equipment. And then a new aspect is, we're adding 100 percent expensing for the actual factory structure. So, I think that that, 100 percent expensing for equipment, 100 percent expensing for structures, along with tax certainty, and then the lower energy costs and dereg, will really accelerate the economy. And, Sara, the other thing too is, like, permanence is the, a stimulant. So once, so, the uncertainty goes away, and we are going to make the 2017 Tax Cuts and Job Act permanent. So there will be the stimulus from the permanence. EISEN: How are you thinking about offsets? I know there's tariff revenue coming in, but the hope is, as you get deals done on trade, ultimately, there will be less of that. BESSENT: Right. So what, you mean offsets for the stimulus? EISEN: Paying for, for paying for the tax. BESSENT: Yes, look, I mean, that's what a big part of the DOGE effort has been, fighting waste, fraud and abuse, and that we have found substantial the areas for cuts, the, for greater government efficiency. And, look, I think both the House and the Senate are looking for substantial savings. EISEN: Right. Ultimately, I guess the question is, what is the expectation? You tell your former fellow colleagues and investors here at Milken, they're wondering deficit projections. We have seen what's been happening with DOGE. Clearly, you're talking up the tax cuts. What should be the correct expectations for the deficit? BESSENT: Well, look, I think, and when I look in the mirror, I see a deficit hawk. And I tell a lot of the very eager senators and the members of Congress who want to do all the cuts this year, but let's just step back for a moment that every $300 billion is 1 percent of GDP. So, if you want to cut a trillion dollars this year, we can do it, but that's a 3 percent shock to GDP. The way to do it smartly, we're talking about bringing the deficit down by about 100 basis points every year for four years to get us back to the long-term average of 3.5 percent. And then a big cure for the deficit is upward growth shock. So, CBO scoring is at 1.7 or 1.8 percent growth, no matter whether you have a tax cut or a tax hike. So we think that, through deregulation, the permanence of the tax bill, we can get growth closer to something that looks like 3 percent. EISEN: By end of year? BESSENT: By this time next year. EISEN: Where's the growth going to come from? You mentioned taxes. On deregulation, what sectors do you think are going to feel at the most and we're going to see the most stimulative impact on the economy? BESSENT: Well, what I have been talking about is reprivatizing the economy. So, on one side, we're going to be bringing down government spending, and which has been crowding out the private sector. We're also going to be shedding excess labor on the government side. Then, on the other side, we have a substantial financial deregulatory, the agenda coming from, we put a lot of new regulators in place. So, the private sector can releverage. And we're putting a special focus on community banks, small banks, small regional banks, which were very near what I would call an extinction event in the next four or five years. So the idea is to get them lending again too. EISEN: At the same time, we do still have this uncertainty factor around what's happening with trade. And I'm sure you hear that all the time from investors and from CEOs. How's it going on the negotiations? And when do you think we will start to see some deals? BESSENT: I think we're very close to some deals, as President Trump said last night on Air Force One, maybe as early as this week. So, when you think about, uncertainty, a lot of it is generated by, I have asymmetric knowledge, so I'm not uncertain because I think it's going well. Other people don't have, know what I know. So— EISEN: Well, you have to share that with us, then. BESSENT: Well, I can say that I am highly confident that we have 18 important trading partners. We will put China to the side. The 17 other partners, many of them have approached us with the very good trade proposals. President Trump is going to be involved in all of those. He will be the final decision-maker. And we will see where that goes. But I think that, at the end of this, even if we have tariffs still in place, because the non-tariff trade barriers are coming down, because we can see an end to some of the currency manipulation, the unfair subsidy of labor and capital from the other countries, we could see the, more frictionless trade. EISEN: Ultimately, that's the goal. BESSENT: Well, the goal is twofold. The goal is to open the foreign markets and then bring back manufacturing to the U.S. And we're thinking about that in two ways. One is, there are strategic industries. So, during COVID, we saw that there were many strategic industries where the U.S. was woefully deficient, whether it was medicine supply chains, the— EISEN: Chips? BESSENT: In chips, in steel, that many of the overseas suppliers were just unreliable partners. So, we can't have that happen again. And then, on the other side, we want to bring back manufacturing and rebalance the economy. EISEN: But China is key. I know you set it aside. And you're heavily involved here. You have said they need to de-escalate and start that process for us to get going on trade talks. Have they made any effort at this point? BESSENT: I think that, I think we could see substantial progress in the coming weeks. We will see that as I think it's Stein's Law that which is not sustainable doesn't continue. So, 145 percent, 125 percent tariff levels are the equivalent of an embargo. EISEN: Yes. BESSENT: And we're reading every day what's happening with factories in China. And from an academic point of view, I can tell you that the history of trade battles, we are the deficit country. The surplus country always has the most to lose. EISEN: Right. So, they need to make more gestures? What is it that you're looking for? And is that happening? Is there a negotiation about the negotiation? BESSENT: Yes, we will see over the coming weeks. And we will see what President Trump wants to accept. EISEN: Right. I mean, have they offered anything on the fentanyl, for instance, precursor ingredients? BESSENT: The only what they have said publicly. So and I can tell you that these precursor fentanyl drugs are a real problem. There are a lot of Chinese companies. At Treasury, we have the ability to do a lot of financial surveillance. And we see Chinese corporates that are linked with the Mexican cartels. And that's got to stop. That's got to stop. Like, what is the price for these hundreds of thousands of fentanyl deaths that we have, the families that are left behind, and then the lives that are ruined? EISEN: Right. So, when you were on a few weeks ago, we gave you a lot of grief when the market was tumbling. We saw this sharp sell-off. Now, we have seen a pretty historic comeback with nine straight up days, erasing all of the losses from the post-liberation day declines in the stock market. I'm wondering what you make of the rally and also the fact that the 10-year yield, which I know you watch more carefully, still remains a little elevated here, around 4.35. BESSENT: Well, I mean, look, it remains elevated. It's down from January 1. It's down from January 20. Right before liberation day, about three weeks ago, it was at 3.90. So what you're saying is, it's elevated from 3.90, and everyone's saying, oh, well, Secretary Bessent got what he wanted, 10-year is at 3.90, but it's there for the wrong reason, because it's pricing in a recession. So what are we pricing in now? Are we pricing in better growth, that I'm just focused on the right economic policies, bringing inflation down. So I prefer not to talk about the market sometimes when it's volatile. EISEN: You know it very well. BESSENT: I get called upon. And, but we came out of the gate on January 20 with two goals, getting interest rates down 10 years lower, mortgage rate, mortgage spreads are compressed, and getting energy prices lower, and energy prices are substantially lower. EISEN: Why should people not worry about stagflation? I know energy prices are lower, but there is, there's a little bit of concern, we saw it in prices paid-services numbers today with the tariffs coming on, that we will see flare-up of inflation at a slower growth moment. BESSENT: Well, if I look at the Fed's favorite measure of forward inflation, one-year, one-year forward, the five-year, five-year, both of those are down the, on the year. So the inflation mark, the market isn't pricing in inflation. And then there's nothing, I haven't seen anything, there's survey data that talks about a slowdown, but the hard data continues to be resilient. EISEN: Yes, saw it in jobs, saw it in services. Secretary Bessent, thank you for your time today— BESSENT: Good to see you. EISEN: In the familiar place for you here at the Milken Conference.
