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Table of Experts: Investing in employee health pays off
Table of Experts: Investing in employee health pays off

Business Journals

time20-05-2025

  • Business
  • Business Journals

Table of Experts: Investing in employee health pays off

Portland Business Journal Publisher and President Candace Beeke recently convened a roundtable on how the business community is focusing on the health and wellness of employees. She spoke with Michael Cole, Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon president; Gina Delahunt, Bridgetown Natural Foods vice president of Human Resources; Elizabeth Garvin, Certified Language International senior vice president of Human Resources; Dr. Phil Mitchell, Dispatch Health chief medical officer; and Kathleen Quandee, Pacific Coast Fresh Company vice president of Human Resources. Read on for their thoughts and ideas. Candace Beeke: One's work environment and health benefits have a direct impact on their overall health. What are employers doing to help keep employees and customers healthy? Michael Cole: As a health plan working with employers, a big piece is establishing good partnerships between payers and employer groups. We want to understand employees to make sure we are tackling the biggest and most important problems. We focus on providing education about the tools and benefits out there. The other role we play in the community is working with our health system providers and those facilities to make sure we have affordability and access covered as two of our biggest priorities. For Regence as an employer, physical, emotional, financial and social well-being all matter. We think about those four pillars and try to (find solutions) that meet the needs of our employees. There are things we do to ensure employees are healthy and have access to resources — virtual checkups, biometric screenings, video consultations. We have the Summer Games. Last year, 2,000 employees walked nearly 450 million steps, nearly 225,000 miles, over 30 days. We encourage employees to join a team to be socially connected. We think about emotional intelligence. Learning about behavioral health care and how to take away the stigma; yearly financial wellness checkups; self-guided lessons around social well-being. We are data driven. Engagement — we had close to an 80% participation rate in our employee well-being program. All this matters as we think about reduced absenteeism, competitive advantage in recruiting and retention. Kathleen Quandee: Overall, making sure people know how to use their benefits and be good health care consumers because benefits are expensive. We're always looking at where to spend the money to get the most benefit for our employees. We have a very diverse group of employees. We try to reach out in many languages. It's hard enough to understand your benefits if you speak English. Cost matters for all of us, not just the employee, but also the employer and the health plan. We teach our people how to use benefits and be good consumers. We sit down with every employee in their language of choice and go over the benefits. We spend a lot of time communicating and overcommunicating. We also try to reach the families. For example, when we give a baby gift, we include information about infant health care or about being a new parent. Gina Delahunt: Meet your team members where they are. You can have an amazing benefit plan, but if people don't know how to use it, it's much less valuable. We have 50 different languages, so helping employees understand the plan, find a provider — the sites where you can pick your language make a huge difference to employees learning to trust health care. Many folks who come from non-English-speaking communities are not ready to trust health care, but they do trust us. We need to be that bridge. We find mobile-friendly apps they can use because most of these folks don't have a computer; they're doing all this on their phone. Dr. Phil Mitchell: We meet patients where they are by delivering high-acuity care in their home. It's the ability to care for patients before they get too sick and end up going to the hospital. For folks with lots of chronic conditions, delaying care is going to make things worse. A patient with pneumonia who's seen on day two of their symptoms versus day 10 has a lot better opportunity to get better quicker, get back to work and is healthier in the long run. If you deliver care in the home, the patient is more empowered to speak their mind and make decisions for themselves. Elizabeth Garvin: It's about the benefits being a benefit for your employees to use when they need it. Sometimes access needs to be in a place where they don't need to come and ask someone for it, like a homepage. So the accessibility of the benefit, in general, is important. Beeke: What's the benefit of healthy employees to the business? What emerging trends in benefits are you seeing? Challenges you anticipate in the next three to five years? Garvin: If you have a healthy employee, they're going to come to work, be engaged, be productive. They're going to want to be there without having to think about what's going on at home or within their own bodies or minds. Mental health has gained a lot of traction. There's a long way to go, but I think we're seeing more and more of that pick up speed in the workplace as a need and destigmatizing it. Cost is always going to be a factor. Affordability is the biggest challenge, and balancing that with the need to be competitive, and then providing a meaningful benefit. Cole: About 10%-20% of total population health is tied to actual medical care; the other 80%-90% is social and environmental factors — income, education, social connectedness. It's important to figure out how to use benefits to create connections, positivity and well-being. Affordability and access are still going to be incredibly important. There's a real concern out there in just having registered nurses, primary care doctors available. Affordability will also be a continuing trend at least for the next couple of cycles. The legislative environment is hard to predict, and it impacts things, including safety nets like Medicaid and Medicare. How do we have benefit plans that are bulletproof against some of these macro issues? Quandee: Physical, mental, emotional, social, all types of health — it all works together. With primary care, it will continue to be a challenge to find providers, which is why telehealth and virtual appointments are important. We encourage employees to get a primary care provider while they're healthy because that person becomes their advocate for whatever else they need. We had a consultant who said if you want your money to go far in retirement, the biggest financial decision you can make is to take care of your health. Think about how much money goes into caregivers or the cost of health care as you age. Finding messages like that to share with people when they're younger has to be part of our message. Delahunt: Since Paid Leave Oregon kicked off, we have more people taking advantage of that to have a baby, care for an ailing relative, which is great, but does create an absenteeism issue. How do we staff extra people? We're a low-margin business, so it's something we're trying to wrestle with. We have a recognition program, called Dough, where employees can nominate each other for something they did that was positive. They exchange that 'dough' at a farmstand once a month and they leave with huge sacks full of produce. It's another way to get fresh food into our employees' hands. Mitchell: Timely access to care is going to decrease long-term effects on patients. Patients who have chronic conditions and start to have symptoms typically wait about seven days to go to the emergency department. Maybe they've tried to access primary care, but can't; there's a shortage in many locations. By the time they hit the emergency department, they're much worse off. So timely access to care will get employees back to work in a more appropriate timeframe once their symptoms are understood, potentially treated and on the road to recovery. Virtual services have come out of the pandemic and mobile services will as well. If you can get care in the home, as opposed to waiting at an urgent care or emergency department, you're talking about hours of time — and time is money. Beeke: Health care costs continue to rise. Preventive care or proactively managing health conditions are critical to curbing costs. Any innovative approaches? Cole: Communication continues to be most important. Leveraging technology, having the mobile app, getting the reminder to refill a prescription or about the value of wellness is a very easy one-touch process. There are incentives to participate in wellness — credits, giveaways or awareness campaigns that are continuous and build upon each other. The communication loop is important. We have to continue to leverage tools and educate people about why it's important to engage in preventive care. Mitchell: When I think about social determinants of health, where better to determine that than in the patient's home. Patients can look really well put together when they're in your office. However, in their home, you get to see all of the issues that may be impacting their care, whether it's pets, clutter or other things. We learn a lot about the patient by being in their home. You get to determine if there are obstacles to them being healthy and then make sure to plug that patient into the next care provider. You get an opportunity to see what patients are eating. They can tell you one thing, but when you open the cabinets and the refrigerator, you can see what the truth is and help them. Quandee: A lot of employees may have a dated idea of employee assistance programs, that it's only the crisis hotline. But there are so many services available online, besides during an emergency — financial counseling, services for caregivers and even basic ones for managers and supervisors. There's a wealth of resources out there — leveraging EAPs, bringing people in or having a department webinar viewing party. Beeke: Is anyone measuring ROI with their programs and employee adoption and the value you feel you're seeing? Cole: ROI is usually associated with straight math, and with health care, it's never a straight line. ROI is measured in what doesn't happen — you didn't go to the emergency room or have a more serious event. You're seeing it in the absence of trauma or anxiety. It's a cost being taken out of the system. There's also a lot of workforce mobility. It's hard to track somebody who's in a company for two years and they're moving on. How do you track their wellness journey around ROI? You're paying it forward. Delahunt: Our safety awareness events generally focus on non-work-related topics. It might be winter driving or heat stress, things you can do at home. It's not just about how we can save money. It's how can we keep you healthy and safe, along with your families, at home. We have about 20 different subcommittees. If an employee has an idea, they can get a small group together and form a subcommittee for a short period to focus on something. It doesn't have to be work-related. Helping employees see that safety and their well-being is not just about work. Beeke: If a business doesn't have any of these solutions, programs or initiatives, where is a good place to start? What are the challenges? Garvin: Start with the plan you already have and your employee base. What is it you're trying to solve? Find out what's missing, where are the gaps, and then begin with simple things that can have a high impact. EAP is great. It's not just about calling for mental health help, it's financial help, where to find care providers. If you want to buy a home, what are your next steps? But keep it simple, and you have to manage it. Talk to your broker, plan advisers. You don't have to do it alone. Does it balance with the culture that you have within your organization? Mitchell: Listen to your employees. There are going to be behavioral health issues that you have to address in every organization. Patients who come into the hospital have different reasons for being admitted. They have emphysema, COPD, heart failure, kidney failure. But if you look across the hospital, somewhere between 40%-60% of those patients are there, not only because of that entity, but also because of alcohol abuse or tobacco or some other substance. So have those thoughts in place when you're setting up programs. Quandee: Cost can be a perceived barrier to getting started. But there are a lot of simple things that are very low cost and easy. For example, National Watermelon Day is a big day here — everybody goes home with a watermelon. A lot of people who don't have a primary care provider, or are culturally not used to it, go to the emergency department, even if it's not necessary. You wait forever and it costs you a lot of money. So we had magnets printed for each employee that had their closest urgent care. It could change, and hours could change, but at least it gives them a place to go. We do events throughout the year. We gather free and low-cost activities in our communities — help groups, library, farmers markets, summer camps. You know what a large amount of time it takes to find camps. If we can find some that are subsidized, that's a good service to our employees. Cole: Getting a sense of what's important to employees. Put out a simple survey. They'll give you plenty of feedback. Our Fun Committee is all volunteer. Employees put together things to do throughout the year — an activity or recognizing something or Halloween costumes. It's exciting to see it come to life and create positivity in the workforce. That allows for engagement. Mitchell: Your health plan may already have some in-network solutions; you don't have to invent everything yourself. Look at what the health plan has, and then who are the trusted partners within that, and options for whatever you're looking for. Save yourself the brainwork of having to reinvent the wheel. Beeke: How can we work together to help curb or control health care costs? Cole: Affordability is the top concern amongst employers, members and their families. We've seen close to a 25% increase in costs over a four-year period. We're spending 90 cents of every dollar that comes in on medical care. As a payer, we want to make sure we're providing affordable products, access to information, transparency, partnership with providers, dialogue with employers and customers. We need to educate those who are accessing care, ensure they understand the importance of preventive care and blow away any stigma surrounding behavioral health. We're all in this together and need to understand that we can be helpful to one another; continue to educate and give each other the tools to be successful. If we can do that, we'll be at a much better spot in the long run. Mitchell: We've known for decades that you don't have to do things the traditional way to save health care costs, but we haven't had a big impetus to push in that direction. The pandemic put us in a position where we can say virtual care is care and should just be called health care. In the '90s, in the United States as well as other countries, they were hospitalizing patients in the home with better outcomes because they weren't experiencing infections or the debilitation from being in a hospital bed. Sometimes you have to go to the emergency department. There's a cost. Sometimes you have to be admitted to the hospital. There's another cost. That same patient can have oxygen, antibiotics, nursing care and PT brought to the home and experience care in a different way at a much lower cost. We have to keep thinking innovatively. The experts: Michael Cole, president, Regence BlueCross BlueShield. As president, Michael Cole oversees strategy and growth for Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon, which serves nearly 1 million Oregonians. Cole has over two decades of executive health care leadership experience in a variety of industries, including payer, payment integrity and health care diagnostics. Throughout his career, he has built strong, collaborative and results-driven cultures. Before joining Regence, Cole served as Aetna's president of the North Atlantic territory and president of the Aetna Keystone Market overseeing the commercial, Medicare and individual lines of business. Gina Delahunt, vice president of Human Resources, Bridgetown Natural Foods. Gina Delahunt spent the first decade of her career in the insurance and risk management industry. She began her legal career as an attorney at Davis Rothwell Earle & Xochihua and United Employers Association before transitioning to an HR leadership role at Dave's Killer Bread. Delahunt joined the Bridgetown Natural Foods team in 2016 and has led the HR department and been a member of the Senior Leadership Team since then. Delahunt received her MBA from the University of Portland and her law degree from Lewis & Clark Law School. Dr. Phil Mitchell, chief medical officer, Dispatch Health. Dr. Phil Mitchell brings over 20 years of emergency department experience and a strong background in patient safety, quality management and clinical education. As chief medical officer at DispatchHealth, he leads teams focused on clinical medicine, quality, compliance and patient experience. A champion of evidence-based care and innovation, Mitchell has chaired Utilization Management and Quality committees, and has been actively involved in training medical students, nurse practitioners and physician assistants throughout his career. Elizabeth Garvin, senior VP of HR, Certified Languages International. Elizabeth Garvin, SHRM-SCP, is a seasoned human resources leader with over 20 years of experience helping Certified Languages build a strong, people-centered culture. As the senior VP of Human Resources, she champions employee well-being, leadership development and strategic workforce planning. Known for her collaborative approach and belief that we rise by lifting others, Garvin is passionate about creating environments where people can thrive — both personally and professionally. Kathleen Quandee, vice president of Human Resources, Pacific Coast Fresh Company. Kathleen Quandee is vice president of Human Resources for Pacific Coast Fresh Company, where she's led the company's people strategy since 2011. Quandee was recognized by the Portland Business Journal for HR Leadership and has volunteered with several community organizations. She is currently a member of the Talent Advisory Committee for the International Fresh Produce Association and is on the Advisory Board for the Assistance League of Portland. While she's always loved fresh fruit and vegetables, joining Pacific Coast Fresh Company has given Quandee a deeper appreciation for fresh produce, family businesses and the people who put so much effort into growing and delivering safe and healthy food.

Table of Experts: Women leaders create resilient company culture
Table of Experts: Women leaders create resilient company culture

Business Journals

time16-05-2025

  • Business
  • Business Journals

Table of Experts: Women leaders create resilient company culture

Portland Business Journal Publisher and President Candace Beeke recently convened a Portland BizWomen Coalition roundtable sponsored by Providence Health Plan with Shannon Drotning, Providence Health Plan consumer and specialty market president; Lauren Francis, Mulberry Talent Partners CEO; Molly Ishkanian, Weinstein PR president; Jan Mason, Mackenzie associate principal and director of communications & equitable development; and Amy Winterowd, JE Dunn Construction vice president of client solutions. The topic was navigating the currents of change: women leaders fostering resilient workplace cultures. In today's rapidly evolving business landscape, the ability to lead effectively through transformation has become essential. expand Candace Beeke: Please share your role and what a resilient workplace culture means to you. Shannon Drotning: I'm the market president for Consumer and Specialty at Providence Health Plan. To me, resilient culture means a strong team that can weather all storms and come out happy, positive. Maybe it wasn't easy, but we all bonded and came through stronger than ever. Lauren Francis: I'm the Founder and CEO of Mulberry Talent Partners, a recruitment firm dedicated to connecting top talent with small, mid-sized, and global organizations. At Mulberry, we believe that building a resilient culture is key to long-term success—one that empowers teams to adapt, thrive, pivot, and emerge stronger from challenges. Molly Ishkanian: I'm president of Weinstein PR, a Portland-based agency of senior marketing and communications professionals. Resilient workplace culture is one where people feel like they can be their full selves. Our colleagues are not just in the role they're in as a strategist, designer or an account lead; they're also caregivers, parents, partners. Resilience comes from when they show up and honor the complexity that exists. When they feel that support, they can have more creativity, loyalty and heart and that can sustain our team through change. Jan Mason: I am associate principal with Mackenzie, a Portland-based architecture and engineering company. When I think about resiliency, I thought about the ocean and the ebb and flow of tides and how the workplace is very much like that, with change happening all around us. We think a lot about resiliency in our buildings, and how do we make them able to withstand, be agile and adapt to things that impact their ability to remain standing. Amy Winterowd: I am the vice president of client solutions for JE Dunn Construction, a large general contractor. A resilient workplace culture is a place where people are thriving and can pivot well when needed — stretching without breaking, making it through adversity. Our people should feel confident in themselves, working as healthy teams, empowered to act, as appropriate, in our capacities. Beeke: What was the most significant transformation you've led your organization through? What leadership approach proved most effective? Francis: When COVID hit, our business came to a standstill almost overnight. But I made a clear decision: These employees matter—I'm going to keep everyone employed. We had a long list of projects we'd been meaning to tackle, so I rallied the team, instilled confidence, and provided clear direction. One of our key initiatives was launching Mulberry Conversations—a series of webinars featuring community leaders, employers, and employees discussing timely and relevant topics. This not only kept us connected to the community, but also evolved into a vital part of our service offerings. It was a testament to our ability to pivot quickly and lead with purpose during uncertain times. Drotning: I was hired right before COVID and ran a team that was doing meetings in person all day. So leading through that change with the utmost empathy and care was important. We had to completely transform the way we worked, from in-person to online — new software, training, revamping processes, procedures, job descriptions, everything. The most important way that happened was through micro-transformations, such as finding which online webinar company to use and just taking it one step at a time. Winterowd: A few years ago we were faced with this massive convergence of life-altering events. We had this global pandemic, and locally, we were ravaged by wildfires, and we had the tragedy of George Floyd. For each of those instances, it was crucial to have strong, direct, empathetic, vulnerable communications. It's important in critical moments to lead with confidence as well as authenticity. The other thing was about the whole human being. We held listening sessions to see where people were at. We already had employee resource groups, but we launched more because it was helpful to have a space where people felt they could talk and share. In times of adversity, some amazing things can come from it. As long as we tackle them with authenticity and we're willing to be vulnerable, we're going to have better outcomes. Ishkanian: Your teams can feel when you're inauthentic, especially in those moments of chaos. The biggest transformation we're going through now is AI. There can be tension — is AI going to take our jobs? All of those worries and fears for the future. We've tried to approach it with curiosity and playfulness. How can we play with this new tool and use it as a thought starter, an editor and partner in our data insights? We have team members whose time has been freed up in big ways by AI —they're receiving everything from cancer treatment to getting kids to weekly therapy appointments. It has been a powerful tool, while still keeping the strategic part of our business and the parts they love. Curiosity is so important, and then collaboration with your team and listening. Mason: Some of the change I've experienced was driven by things mentioned. We started a transformation, and I was worried about adoption. For us, it was CRM technology. We are also going through an AI transformation. Change is scary for folks when they're accustomed to working a certain way. I am now a believer in change management. We've been working with a consultant who has been guiding us and helping people understand the importance of change, why we're making the change, understanding how it affects their role, as well as having an overall communication plan. I've seen different styles in my career like, we're going to make this change, and everybody get on board or there's the door. That's not an effective way of accomplishing change that's transformative. Systemwide, it means thinking holistically. I value spending time to plan for change and then working through it with colleagues. We need to give them information about what to expect, what it means. The basic fundamentals of project management become really important, even communication planning. Beeke: What communication approaches have you found most effective in maintaining trust and alignment when your team is navigating uncertainty Drotning: We call our employees caregivers, so caring for our caregivers. One of our strategic priorities is nurturing our core. Constant communication, check-ins, one-on-ones, being as transparent as you possibly can. Give them the why and how it relates to their job. Also, be quick about it. If there's negative news, you need to share it right away, (reiterating) goals and priorities. And make sure you're having fun. It gives people a chance to let go of stress. Mason: Communication style that's empathetic and thinks about individuals and what they're going through. Just the fact you're meeting with them about something changing in the workplace, there's sometimes trepidation. Think about overall well-being. It's about the audience you're talking to. As leaders, we have to recognize the different levels and different backgrounds people come from. How we approach communication may need to be tailored specific to their needs — communication that's adaptable. Winterowd: We have to meet people where they're at. As leaders, we have to provide confidence. Honest and vulnerable communication that's direct and open, is going to build trust. Sometimes we don't have the answers, and that's OK. Saying, we're working on it, here's what we know, we're going to figure it out together. Meeting people where they're at is recognizing that, at times, we're having big company meetings and some people are uncomfortable speaking up. So, we give a text number where people can be more anonymous and ask a question without drawing attention to themselves. Or breaking up into smaller groups. Francis: Being dependable and showing up consistently builds trust. One of the most powerful ways to do this is by prioritizing your one-on-one meetings. Be on time, avoid canceling or postponing, and show that these conversations matter—even if they're brief. Consistency sends a strong message: you value the person and their time. Pair that with open, transparent communication and genuine support, and you create a culture where people feel included, seen, and respected. There are many ways to connect meaningfully, but showing up with intention is where it begins. Ishkanian: Oftentimes we counsel our clients on how to maintain trust and alignment during uncertainty. You can create multiple advocates and mini leaders within the workforce so when questions bubble up, there are multiple people who can answer them, not just one person who gets bottlenecked. Everyone is a different learner and takes in information differently. So, figuring out on your team who needs a phone call versus a text message versus Slack. A 15-minute phone call sometimes can do more than 10 messages or a long email. We talk about channels too. Does it make sense for this to be a webinar, versus a letter, where a client can take it away and think about it? Thinking about the individual and what they need. Beeke: How have attributes such as empathy, collaboration and inclusive decision-making influenced your approach to managing change? What tangible benefits have you observed, if any? Ishkanian: I truly believe in empathy and think it's one of the reasons women make such fabulous leaders, because it comes very naturally. With empathy, people can feel your leadership. In our work, that starts with choosing the clients we work with. We have turned down business that doesn't align with our values because that creates conflict for our people. If our people feel tension with the client's mission, then the work doesn't do well. The client deserves a partner who's fully in. So empathy and then pairing that with collaborative decision-making. We have had PR ideas come from web designers; UX insights that have come from graphic artists. We try to get rid of those rigid silos. Francis: Organizations make difficult decisions all the time. Not everyone is going to agree with the decision-employees, senior leaders, and stakeholders and that's ok. 'I often emphasize the communication principle that clear is kind — being direct and transparent shows respect and builds trust.' Communicate the decision with clarity, confidence, and the reasons for the decision. Drotning: There are always people on the team who ask great questions and want to be involved. I turn that around and say, 'Great questions, great insights. Will you talk to this cohort and lead them through the change?' Employ those ambassadors to show that all the questions are fair, all the doubts are fair, and we can all work through this together. Francis: Going through difficult decisions, try not to show stress; try to present a positive approach. Refrain from complaining and present that united front. Not to be fake; it's just to try to be more resilient. You can provide tools to employees — podcasts and articles and promoting wellness so they feel they have more control. Beeke: What aspects of traditional office culture is your organization fighting to preserve? What are you deliberately leaving behind? Drotning: Maintain some in-person contact. All organizations are different, whether it's meeting with your team once a week, once a month, once a quarter, whether you're getting pizza or coffee or it's a more formal meeting. The amount of work I get done in a day when I'm with my team and we're able to bounce ideas is three times more than we get done in a week virtually. The thing we should leave in the past is a focus on profits over the wellbeing of our people. That's the most important thing. Encourage your folks to take PTO, go on vacation and not check email, not be on a phone call. If people aren't taking care of themselves, then nothing is going to work very well in your organization. And it's having leadership make that a priority, so it's not just lip service. Mason: As a design firm, collaboration and a human-centered approach are vital components that allow us to be united in how we approach our work every day. We're trying to preserve staff meetings in-person and encouraging people to show up. We create an opportunity to connect with colleagues, to maintain that as part of our culture, to encourage collaboration. It's saving time by being together to accomplish tasks, make quick decisions and get things done more efficiently. And it feels good to be with other human beings, bouncing ideas off each other or getting feedback. It's much different than across the screen or over the phone. Francis: Technology has increasingly blurred the boundaries between work and personal life. What many professionals are leaving behind is the rigid, inflexible work schedule. Today, it's not just about on-site, hybrid, or remote options — candidates are asking for flexibility and agency over how they manage their time and responsibilities. When speaking with clients about a job opening, we emphasize the importance of understanding and communicating their workplace culture. While some industries — like retail, healthcare, and certain manufacturing roles — may not allow for remote work, what truly matters is the organization's attitude toward flexibility. How they approach it can significantly influence their ability to attract and retain top talent. Winterowd: Being in-person is going to afford the ability to have spontaneous conversations and touch bases that build relationships you can't do if everybody's remote. In construction, some people could work remotely, but others couldn't. After COVID, we came back 100% in-person. That was unpopular with some. We probably lost 3% of people because they were able to find remote positions. That said, we recognize there's some level of remote work that's here to stay. Most people's roles have at least one day a week they can work remotely. But remote work has been great for efficiency of time and could be great for cost savings. Sometimes we have large-scale meetings with people in different parts of the country. That used to be really expensive, to get everybody to fly in, take time to travel. Sometimes it's better to have that ability to be online. Also, leaving behind the idea that we have our work selves and our home selves. We're a lot more integrated. Just because I'm at work doesn't mean that sometimes I'm not thinking about this other thing going on at home. I also don't mind leaving behind a lot of the paper. We're doing so much more with technology. Mason: Being in-person can be valuable for mental health because it allows us to interact with people. Well-being includes human interaction. We didn't realize how important human interaction was, or how much it enriches our lives, until we lost it during COVID. Ishkanian: We've been fully remote for 18 years. It has helped us build a very experienced group of talent. It's people who don't want to be tied to a desk and don't want to be told they have to come in Monday through Friday, 9-to-5. We still fight to preserve connection, spontaneous conversations and real-time brainstorming, meeting in person for our clients, but not necessarily just to meet in person. We want it to feel worthwhile and like we're accomplishing something. Trust is implicit in flexible workplace culture. We 100% trust our people to get their work done when it works for them. It's a really simple concept that has paid so many dividends for our agency. It's allowed us to keep people, especially women who may have dropped out of the workforce when they had kids, to keep these very smart, experienced women. That flexibility is the core of our talent pool. So leaving behind rigid schedules, outdated definitions of productivity, or just the idea that your presence equals performance, because I don't think that's true.

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