22-03-2025
Commissioners, school board agree to '5 on 5' committee
After hearing a presentation about a '5 on 5' committee from Dare County's county manager on Wednesday night, the Lee County commissioners and school board both voted to pursue such an arrangement.
Bobby Outten spoke to the joint meeting of both groups for about 30 minutes. Afterward, some commissioners and board members asked questions.
Outten said he's been county manager on North Carolina's Outer Banks for 17 years.
There was a lot of acrimony between Dare's county commissioners and the school board before they adopted a '5 on 5' committee approach in 2015, he said, adding that the per pupil funding model for schools didn't work.
'Ninety% of the costs of operating schools are fixed,' he said.
In addition to fixed costs, there are variable costs, plus the consumer price index, and salary costs to consider.
Dare County matches percentage increases that the state implements, he said.
North Carolina pays for teachers' salaries, but Outten noted that Dare County pays for school resource officers, school nurses, social workers and any supplements for teachers.
Things have been a lot smoother ever since Dare implemented 5 on 5, he said.
The committee consists of the finance director and an administrator from the county and the school system (four total), along with three board members from each body (six total). In Dare County, the administrators are the county manager and school superintendent.
'Here's a way we can avoid having a fight,' Outten recalled saying 10 years ago, noting the two boards had fought about funding every year for 15 years previously.
Since implementing 5 on 5, 'the school has gotten an increase in money' from the county every year, he said. 'It has worked well. We haven't had a fight or argument except for some capital things. It has significantly improved relations between the boards.'
Outten said the committee meets at least once every three months, but more often if necessary.
A benefit of the 5 on 5 committee is that 'you know what you're going to get' in terms of funding each year. 'There are no last-minute surprises,' he said. 'You can plan.'
Capital funding requests for Dare County Schools are paid for first through state lottery funds, and the school system selects which projects are paid for with those funds.
He cited an example of a new early college. Some people wanted it and others didn't, but the school system made the decision to pay for it through lottery funds, so county taxpayers didn't fund the $25 million project.
'You make it sound easy,' commissioner Cameron Sharpe said. 'The key to solving problems is communicating,' Outten replied.
'It sounded hopeful and easy,' commissioner Samantha Martin added. 'We certainly need something along that line.'
'This may not be the way for everybody,' Outten said, 'but the need to compromise and give and take is gone.'
Someone asked what the politics are in Dare County. Outten said his board began as all Democrats and now is all Republican. (In Lee County, the Republicans have a 4-3 majority on the commission and 7-0 on the school board.)
He said the two boards operate with a five-year capital plan for schools.
'Getting the [school] superintendent and finance director on board was the biggest challenge,' Outten said.
Lee County School Board chair Sherry Lynn Womack, who had touted the 5 on 5 committee before her board previously, said she wants to get three board members from each side who are truly passionate about education.
Outten suggested having the county and school finance staff run numbers from previous years. 'If they believe it can work, getting your boards on board probably wouldn't be difficult,' he said.
Lee County Commission Chair Kirk Smith asked if his board had consensus to proceed. Taylor Vorbeck made a motion to have the county's budget manager and finance director meet with LCS officials, which was seconded by Mark Lovick. It passed 5-0, with Andre Knecht and Robert Reives absent.
Womack directed LCS staff to research and implement certain aspects of 5 on 5.
School board member Chris Gaster then made a motion to see if a 5 on 5 committee is feasible for capital projects and other important criteria. His motioned was seconded and passed unanimously.
There was a separate agenda item regarding what the county commissioners expect from the school board.
Sharpe asked that some school board members 'stop the Facebook posts' and provide information in a timely manner. 'I think the Legislature is our problem,' he added.
Martin said that one of the big questions she faces is with the requested auditorium at Southern Lee High School. 'Do we really need to spend all the taxpayer money on that?' she asked.
Smith said he recently learned that, if such an auditorium is built, LCS plans to use two large rooms, that music students currently use, as classrooms for other subjects.
LCS Superintendent Chris Dossenbach confirmed this, and noted that music and band students would use the auditorium for classes. He added that this would give the schools more flexibility.
'I look forward to the fact we are going to work together,' Womack said.
During the first part of the meeting, commissioners and board members heard a one-hour presentation from UNC School of Government professor Kara Millonzi about school funding in the state.
'Counties are used to budgeting 'apples,' and schools budget 'oranges,' ' she said.
