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The 42
4 days ago
- Entertainment
- The 42
The three Wallabies legends who started a rugby pod
ANTICIPATION IS BUILDING among a crowd of several hundred at Felons Brewing Co., a sprawling brewery and bar along the riverside in Brisbane. The flowing pints help the atmosphere among these Lions and Wallabies-loving fans, but they're excited to see the three Australian legends they came for. On a quiet mezzanine behind the stage area are the KOKO crew. They're immaculately dressed, enjoying a few pre-show pints, and discussing how they turned their close friendship into a thriving podcast. Matt Giteau, Adam Ashley-Cooper, and Drew Mitchell teamed up with host James Rochford around 18 months ago to form 'Kick Offs and Kick Ons.' It's a weekly podcast that also goes out on YouTube, but they've branched into live shows and are flat out around this Lions tour. They won 295 Wallabies caps between them, so they know their rugby but KOKO has been a big success because Giteau, Mitchell, and Ashley-Cooper have thoroughly been themselves. Craic is to the fore on KOKO. 'I had done some podcast stuff with Will Genia in Japan and I was talking to these two fellas because we had our own little group chat,' says Giteau of how the idea formed. 'I said it seemed like a lot of fun, you can be connected to the game but you've got editing control and can say what you want but in a positive way.' Mitchell had already been working in the media and Ashley-Cooper was in discussions with another podcast about joining them, so the timing was good. 'When we were playing together, we always said we'd do something after we finished,' says Ashley-Cooper, better known as 'Swoop.' 'We did a wine together, but that tasted like cat's piss,' interjects Giteau. The three of them had dealt with the media a huge amount during their careers and though they say they never grew to hate that side of the game, they liked the idea of being in control of how they were portrayed. Fans wait for the show at Felons in Brisbane. The 42 The 42 Mitchell's work in TV also made podcasting more attractive. 'On TV, you have to give an opinion but don't get the opportunity to provide the context,' says Mitchell, who also played with Giteau at Toulon. 'So the longer form was more appealing. Podcasts allow you to provide that context. Sometimes on TV, you've got 10 seconds to get an opinion out.' Advertisement Giteau adds that he believes, 'TV has got an agenda, which I hate. We just push what we want.' Rochford, who has vast experience working in television, neatly captures why KOKO has become popular. 'People love it because it's real, it's organic,' says Rochford. 'If Swoop is pissing Drew off, he can tell him he's pissing him off. On TV, he can't say that. 'The whole idea is that you're the fifth person in the room, you're sitting with these guys in the pub and it's a conversation.' The fact that the ex-Wallabies trio are such close friends makes the on-air relationship all the smoother, whereas Mitchell explains that on TV you could be working with someone you don't have any chemistry with. 'And then James is elite at what he does,' says Mitchell, before the other two slag the host off. 'I revolutionised sports broadcasting,' jokes Rochford. The pod has been well-received by rugby fans and people in the game. People regularly yell 'KOKO' at them in the streets. Current players, including some of the Lions, have told them they're regular listeners. 'Honestly, it's a bit overwhelming,' says Ashley-Cooper. KOKO invite current and ex-players onto the show most weeks and we tend to see a different side to them. It's not the same as the guarded manner many of them adopt with traditional mainstream media. 'When you put them in front of a media banner, there's a microphone in front of them, cameras, they get their guard up but we just want it to be more conversational,' says Mitchell. 'We're not there to stitch people up, to get headlines and breaking news, to get the inside word on selection. We just want to get to know the player.' Ashley-Cooper adds that players enjoy not getting bogged down in rugby chat. 'What's the last thing a rugby player wants to talk about?' says former Bordeaux wing Ashley-Cooper. 'It's rugby. 'Heavily ingrained in our Australian culture is this 'tall poppy syndrome' where people are always trying to find the negative first. As players, that can bother you. So we're very aware of how now, as media – are we media? I'd probably refer to us as pirates – how important it is to be positive and get behind them.' Giteau says they once invited a guest on who they weren't sure about but felt would be good for the podcast. He felt dirty afterwards and told Rochford that they shouldn't do anything for the clicks again. One thing that listeners and YouTube viewers enjoy about KOKO is what the quartet themselves describe as its 'looseness.' The jokes and slagging are never far away and fans can get a sense of what it's like to be in a pro rugby environment. Rochford remembers being in TV production meetings where people said something like KOKO just couldn't work. Rugby is often viewed as very serious and stuffy, something they want to change. 'Rugby is private schools and leather patches,' says Giteau. 'The people's sports here are rugby league and AFL. But we're all from pretty ordinary upbringings, so we want to show that not everyone is like that image.' They do break down and analyse rugby on KOKO too. The Wallabies trio have great knowledge of the technical, tactical, and mental side of the game, so sometimes they wander down those avenues. They don't want to get overly nerdy but sometimes it just happens. When it does, Rochford tries to make sure they explain any rugby jargon that listeners might not know. 'We do love code,' says Ashley-Cooper. Rochford says he has a run-down planned for the podcast each week but 90% of it never sees the light of day. 'It's just mates hanging out and it doesn't feel like an effort,' says the host, before Giteau explains that he drives three hours each way from Canberra to Sydney for every pod because he enjoys it so much. 'We turn up to the studio at 3pm on a Monday, beers open, and talk about what we did at the weekend,' says Ashley-Cooper. 'We roll in, it's just organic.' With this Lions series, the 2027 World Cup, and the 2029 Women's World Cup all in Australia, the KOKO lads are excited about what the future holds. But Ashley-Cooper says the main thing is the job at hand in Brisbane as they tuck into another round of pints before heading out on stage. 'Right now, all I'm worried about is getting through tonight, mate!'
Perth Now
09-07-2025
- Sport
- Perth Now
Lolesio's substitute can shine: Wallabies great Giteau
Test centurion Matt Giteau believes Ben Donaldson should wear the Wallabies No.10 jersey against the British and Irish Lions, but says it's "silly" not to include a veteran playmaker in the squad. With first-choice flyhalf Noah Lolesio ruled out of the series after neck surgery, Donaldson and Tom Lynagh are the front-runners for the role for the opening Test in Brisbane on July 19. Giteau, who played at both 10 and 12 for Australia during his 103 Tests, told AAP that Donaldson showed enough in the Wallabies' last-ditch win over Fiji to be given first start. The Western Force star replaced Lolesio, who suffered a whiplash injury in a tackle, and Giteau was impressed by his composure as well as his skill during his 19 minutes on the field. "With Noah unavailable, Ben Donaldson looks like first-choice 10 to me," said Giteau, who is an ambassador for Lions Tour official sleep partner Resmed. "His obvious ability to carry, he keeps the defence guessing, and he's got a really good kicking game. "When he came on for that limited time against Fiji, the Wallabies were up against the flow of the game, heavily, and he was able to get them back on track. "His penalty kick to the sideline with three minutes to go showed a lot of courage, you know. He went for it and it was a beautiful kick. "Got us down their end, and then off the back of that we were able to get a maul penalty ... and then able to get over the line and get the win. "So I just think his composure in the first Test of the season, especially in an important time in the game, he showed a lot there, so I think Joe (Schmidt) will get a lot of confidence out of his performance." Back in 2015 then Test coach Michael Cheika recalled 92-capped Giteau from France to bolster his squad leading into the World Cup, with the relaxation in overseas selection dubbed the Giteau Law. The former Brumbies and Force player was instrumental in helping Australia make the final in England, with Cheika lauding his big-match experience. Giteau said underdogs Australia would benefit from coach Schmidt including a veteran such as James O'Connor, Kurtley Beale or Bernard Foley when the squad for the Lions is named on Friday. He likened it to the Lions flying in Owen Farrell, who is the only player in their squad to have gone on four Lions tours, winning in 2013 against the Wallabies. "They've seen so many different defence pictures in their time that they can help these young 10s if they are faced with a certain situation in those games, they can prepare them," said 42-year-old Giteau, who only retired last year. "You look at Owen Farrell's inclusion, what he's bringing is leadership and experience - he's the only one in that group that's won a Lions series. "James (O'Connor) and Kurtley (Beale) were part of the previous tour 12 years ago, and Bernard has got big-game experience as well, so these guys have been there and done that. "To not include any of them this second time around, I think would be silly when they've got so much that they can add and help, not only young 10s, but just the whole squad in general." Exiled by then Wallabies coach Robbie Deans before the 2011 World Cup, Giteau's shift to France meant he didn't face the Lions in 2013. He was only a teenager making his Super debut during the previous series in 2001. Giteau said it was only now that he realised the magnitude of missing out on ever playing the Lions, despite a 20-plus year career. "In 2013 when they came I was in France ... and 2001 I just finished school, so I wasn't really reading papers or going to games, so I didn't really understand how massive this opportunity is,'' he said. "But then to sit back and reflect and know that I played over 20 years professionally, but never got the opportunity to play in a Lions series, it is special, and I think the players know that."
