Latest news with #Kirkcaldy
Times
5 hours ago
- Health
- Times
Trans row nurse Sandie Peggie was viewed as misbehaving, lawyer claims
A veteran nurse was viewed as 'misbehaving' for refusing to share a female changing room with a transgender doctor, her lawyer has claimed in a landmark tribunal. Dr Kate Searle, an A&E consultant, recalled being told about two occasions when Sandie Peggie left the women's changing facilities at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, when Dr Beth Upton entered, causing the doctor to feel 'uncomfortable'. She said that Peggie could have been reported to her manager, but Upton, who is biologically male but identifies as female, deciding against pursuing the matter further. Peggie confronted Upton on the third occasion on which they met in the female-only space, on Christmas Eve 2023, claiming the doctor had no right to be there. This led to Peggie's suspension from work and an 18-month internal investigation, in which the nurse was cleared last week. Peggie had been warned that she could have been sacked, after a 30-year career, had the health board found against her. The nurse is taking action against NHS Fife and Upton, claiming she faced harassment and discrimination as a result of the changing rooms policy. Searle was Upton's line manager and, giving evidence on Tuesday, said that the doctor had informed her about the two occasions, in August and October 2023, in which Peggie had left the changing room when Upton entered, without saying anything. Documentation showed that Upton had been given the option by Searle to 'take the matter further' in late October that year. Searle said that, had Upton pursued this option, it could have meant an informal conversation 'between parties' or talking to Peggie's manager. 'At the time you discussed this with Dr Upton both you and he [Upton] considered Sandie's choice to remove herself from the changing room if he was there, to be misbehaving, didn't you?' Naomi Cunningham, Peggie's lawyer, said. 'She was behaving badly and making him [Upton] feel uncomfortable.' Searle replied: 'Beth felt uncomfortable that Sandie appeared to not want to engage, she was the only one behaving like this and that was why Beth felt uncomfortable with someone behaving differently like that. I don't agree we would have classed it as misbehaviour.' The tribunal has previously been told how Searle rallied behind Upton after the doctor raised a formal complaint about the changing room row. Upton later took sick leave due to the anxiety resulting from the confrontation. The consultant said she had checked when introducing Upton to the department, in August 2023, that the doctor was comfortable using the female facilities. Searle agreed with Cunningham that she had proceeded on the basis that it wasn't 'anyone else's business' whether Upton, who began transitioning to live as female in January 2022, was going to use the women's changing room or not. 'Beth identifying as a female has every right, under the Equality and Human Right Commission Act [sic] to use the facilities under the gender in which she identifies,' Searle said. However, she went on to admit that many women may feel uncomfortable about taking their clothes of in the presence of a man. Cunningham put it to Searle that her suggestion that she might have facilitated a conversation between the nurse and Upton 'about why she wasn't willing to take her clothes off in a room that he was present in' would have been 'a very long way from kind or compassionate' to Peggie. The consultant had earlier said possible approaches to resolve the situation of Peggie leaving the changing rooms when Upton entered could have involved a discussion of 'views between people' or a speaking to Peggie's 'line manager.' Searle added: 'That's not how I would have directly approached them nor how I did directly approach it. I was suggesting ways that you might manage a situation when two parties are uncomfortable. 'We would have discussed, if Dr Upton felt very uncomfortable and it was affecting them in coming to work, then it would have been appropriate to take it further, whether it's just a discussion between parties to say how can we work through this together, with compassion and kindness and to make sure everyone is safe.' Cunningham put it to Searle that Peggie was clearly feeling uncomfortable with sharing facilities with Upton, after being told about the two occasions in which the nurse self-excluded from female changing rooms. The lawyer asked: 'What steps did you take to offer her any compassion or kindness?' Searle replied: 'I didn't make that approach.' Meanwhile, Searle was also confronted with emails between witnesses involved in the investigation into Peggie's conduct. An email sent on January 5, 2024, stated that 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome — it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'.' Searle said 'in hindsight we should not have written these things' but denied deliberately attempting to 'conceal the wrongdoing of colleagues.' The email had not been provided initially in disclosures of evidence by NHS Fife. The tribunal continues.
Times
15 hours ago
- Health
- Times
Sandie Peggie was viewed as misbehaving, lawyer claims
A veteran nurse was viewed as 'misbehaving' for refusing to share a female changing room with a transgender doctor, her lawyer has claimed in a landmark tribunal. Dr Kate Searle, an A&E consultant, recalled being told about two occasions when Sandie Peggie left the women's changing facilities at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, when Dr Beth Upton entered, causing the doctor to feel 'uncomfortable'. She said that Peggie could have been reported to her manager, but Upton, who is biologically male but identifies as female, deciding against pursuing the matter further. Peggie confronted Upton on the third occasion on which they met in the female-only space, on Christmas Eve 2023, claiming the doctor had no right to be there. This led to Peggie's suspension from work and an 18-month internal investigation, in which the nurse was cleared last week. Peggie had been warned that she could have been sacked, after a 30-year career, had the health board found against her.
Yahoo
a day ago
- Health
- Yahoo
Emails discussing nurse probe should not have been written, Peggie tribunal told
Emails discussing nurse probe should not have been written, Peggie tribunal told Emails between witnesses discussing an investigation into a gender critical nurse who was suspended following a dispute with a transgender doctor 'should not have been written', a consultant told a tribunal. Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. ADVERTISEMENT The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, gave evidence and denied 'deliberately concealing' an email sent on January 5 2024 by fellow consultant Maggie Currer, with six potential witnesses plus Dr Upton included. A judicial order was made in January by the tribunal, however documentation emerged during the hearings in February and an IT trawl was commissioned which Dr Searle said all clinicians involved complied with. Barrister Naomi Cunningham, representing Ms Peggie, said: 'I want to suggest you deliberately concealed it to conceal wrongdoing of colleagues.' Dr Searle said: 'It would be dishonest to do that and I'm a doctor who acts as honestly as I can at all times.' ADVERTISEMENT In her evidence, Dr Searle said that she had no concerns about Dr Upton's allegations as the General Medical Council requires 'honesty and integrity'. However, she said she was 'never informed' that a referral to the Nursing and Midwifery Council had been made, the tribunal heard. She said that she emailed Dr Upton with others included later in January to give an 'update' on the investigation. But during cross-examination, Dr Searle admitted 'that we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses'. Ms Cunningham said the email on January 5 2024 was 'seriously embarrassing to the respondents' and said it 'appears to be an intention to set up and co-ordinate a group who should not be talking about this as they're witnesses'. She added: 'It says 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome – it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'.' Dr Searle said: 'I can appreciate that in hindsight we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses.' ADVERTISEMENT Ms Cunningham quoted from Dr Upton's evidence, including that using female changing rooms was 'a thing I have been instructed to be the most appropriate', and describing biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle'. Dr Searle denied telling the junior doctor to use female facilities, and said: 'Definitely no instructions were given.' She agreed that biological sex was 'significant', but when the term 'nebulous dog whistle' was put to her, she denied knowing what it meant. Ms Cunningham said: 'I think it must follow that anyone who describes biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle' would be talking obvious nonsense.' Dr Searle said: 'I'm not sure what that means.' The witness said she emailed Equalities lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 as Dr Upton felt 'uncomfortable' about Ms Peggie 'self-excluding' from the female changing room, but said she 'didn't recall' raising the possibility of taking it further, as mentioned in an internal investigation. ADVERTISEMENT She said she Googled policies around self-identification, and added: 'I'm not a law expert – if you Google it, it comes up under Equality Act, there are many references to toilets and changing rooms. I subsequently emailed Isla Bumba who is much more expert in Equalities than me. She agreed there is no policy.' The consultant denied that she perceived self-exclusion as 'misbehaviour'. Dr Searle said: 'We would have discussed it if Dr Upton was very uncomfortable and it was affecting them'. She said a discussion would have involved 'compassion and kindness', but added: 'It doesn't sound otherwise like there's anything to take further.' Ms Cunningham said: 'At the time you discussed it with Dr Upton you considered this to be misbehaviour, she (Ms Peggie) was behaving badly and making him feel uncomfortable.' However, Dr Searle said: 'Beth felt uncomfortable that Sandie appeared to not want to engage.' Ms Cunningham said: 'My question was: both you and he regarded Sandie's conduct in removing herself a form of misbehaviour?' Dr Searle said: 'I don't agree we would have classed it as misbehaviour.' Ms Cunningham said: 'I think you've already confirmed that email to Isla Bumba on December 8 was prompted by a conversation about Sandie removing herself from the changing room when he was there, that's right? 'You ask if there's any policies around transgender staff and suggest Dr Upton might be keen to help develop some; is it fair for the tribunal to infer the possibility of developing policies to make it easier for Dr Upton to take matters further?' Dr Searle said: 'No, I don't agree. I think there needs to be an NHS Fife policy on how everyone can feel comfortable in changing areas of their choosing.' The tribunal continues.
The Independent
a day ago
- Health
- The Independent
Emails discussing nurse probe should not have been written, Peggie tribunal told
Emails between witnesses discussing an investigation into a gender critical nurse who was suspended following a dispute with a transgender doctor 'should not have been written', a consultant told a tribunal. Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, gave evidence and denied 'deliberately concealing' an email sent on January 5 2024 by fellow consultant Maggie Currer, with six potential witnesses plus Dr Upton included. Barrister Naomi Cunningham, representing Ms Peggie, said: 'I want to suggest you deliberately concealed it to conceal wrongdoing of colleagues.' Dr Searle said: 'It would be dishonest to do that and I'm a doctor who acts as honestly as I can at all times.' In her evidence, Dr Searle said that she had no concerns about Dr Upton's allegations as the General Medical Council requires 'honesty and integrity'. However, she said she was 'never informed' that a referral to the Nursing and Midwifery Council had been made, the tribunal heard. She said that she emailed Dr Upton with others included later in January to give an 'update' on the investigation. But during cross-examination, Dr Searle admitted 'that we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses'. Ms Cunningham said the email on January 5 2024 was 'seriously embarrassing to the respondents' and said it 'appears to be an intention to set up and co-ordinate a group who should not be talking about this as they're witnesses'. She added: 'It says 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome – it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'.' Dr Searle said: 'I can appreciate that in hindsight we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses.' Ms Cunningham quoted from Dr Upton's evidence, including that using female changing rooms was 'a thing I have been instructed to be the most appropriate', and describing biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle'. Dr Searle denied telling the junior doctor to use female facilities, and said: 'Definitely no instructions were given.' She agreed that biological sex was 'significant', but when the term 'nebulous dog whistle' was put to her, she denied knowing what it meant. Ms Cunningham said: 'I think it must follow that anyone who describes biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle' would be talking obvious nonsense.' Dr Searle said: 'I'm not sure what that means.' The witness said she emailed Equalities lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 as Dr Upton felt 'uncomfortable' about Ms Peggie 'self-excluding' from the female changing room, but said she 'didn't recall' raising the possibility of taking it further, as mentioned in an internal investigation. She said she Googled policies around self-identification, and added: 'I'm not a law expert – if you Google it, it comes up under Equality Act, there are many references to toilets and changing rooms. I subsequently emailed Isla Bumba who is much more expert in Equalities than me. She agreed there is no policy.' The consultant denied that she perceived self-exclusion as 'misbehaviour'. Dr Searle said: 'We would have discussed it if Dr Upton was very uncomfortable and it was affecting them'. She said a discussion would have involved 'compassion and kindness', but added: 'It doesn't sound otherwise like there's anything to take further.' Ms Cunningham said: 'At the time you discussed it with Dr Upton you considered this to be misbehaviour, she (Ms Peggie) was behaving badly and making him feel uncomfortable.' However, Dr Searle said: 'Beth felt uncomfortable that Sandie appeared to not want to engage.' Ms Cunningham said: 'My question was: both you and he regarded Sandie's conduct in removing herself a form of misbehaviour?' Dr Searle said: 'I don't agree we would have classed it as misbehaviour.' Ms Cunningham said: 'I think you've already confirmed that email to Isla Bumba on December 8 was prompted by a conversation about Sandie removing herself from the changing room when he was there, that's right? 'You ask if there's any policies around transgender staff and suggest Dr Upton might be keen to help develop some; is it fair for the tribunal to infer the possibility of developing policies to make it easier for Dr Upton to take matters further?' Dr Searle said: 'No, I don't agree. I think there needs to be an NHS Fife policy on how everyone can feel comfortable in changing areas of their choosing.' The tribunal continues.
Daily Mail
a day ago
- Health
- Daily Mail
Gender tribunal hears NHS Fife guidance recommended police involvement over 'changing room incident'
A hospital consultant and a female-identifying medic discussed reporting a nurse to the police after she challenged the trans doctor for using a women's changing room, a tribunal has heard. Dr Beth Upton had emailed line manager Dr Kate Searle her account of the incident on Christmas Eve 2023. Nurse Sandie Peggie, 51, was suspended after challenging the 30-year-old resident doctor in the female-only changing room at Victoria Hospital, in Kirkcaldy, Fife. She is now suing NHS Fife and Dr Upton for being made to change next to her. Dr Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, told the employment tribunal about the email and the subsequent meeting and said: 'Beth told me again the events that had happened, she was extremely shaken and distressed, and we went through all of the events. 'We looked at the NHS Fife hate incident policy, and going through that recognised that this was an incident that required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together. 'We discussed reporting the incident to the police because that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife's policy. 'Beth said she would think about it. 'I then ensured we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in, and if she felt safe to do that, and I made sure she had all the support that she needed at that time.' Dr Searle said that although it was considered, Dr Upton did not report the incident to the police. The tribunal heard staff at the hospital had reported a patient to the police for racial abuse and that 'Beth would have grounds for this if she wishes'. The consultant said: 'As by NHS Fife policy, I advised, Beth and I read it together and it states that it is reportable to the police and I think it encourages people to do so. 'But at the time Beth was happy she was going to think about it.' Asked if police were contacted, Dr Searle said: 'I don't believe it did.' The email on Christmas Day, at 3.17am, from Dr Upton described what the trans medic claimed had happened hours earlier. NHS Fife KC Jane Russell said Dr Upton had been told 'she wasn't a woman', and Dr Searle said: 'I was very concerned for Beth, because I knew that's not just an upsetting thing to say but also, by NHS Fife's hate incident policy, is verbal harassment of her.' Ms Russell said Dr Upton was questioned 'about chromosomes', and the consultant said: 'I could only imagine how upsetting and invasive a question that would be for Beth, and also not relevant to a colleague to ask another colleague. 'Beth identifies as female, and it does not matter what her chromosomes are to her.' The lawyer told the tribunal that in her email Dr Upton wrote that Ms Peggie had told her women have 'a right to feel safe, she said it's just like that person in the prisons'. Dr Searle said it was 'likening the situation to being akin to the Isla Bryson case' who is a 'convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison'. The consultant said she had known Ms Peggie since starting to work at the hospital 11 years ago, and told the tribunal she was not aware of her gender critical views. Dr Upton was 'very open' about being trans when interviewed for the job, she said, and the tribunal heard had been out as a trans woman for just over a year at that point. In August 2023, Dr Searle had her first meeting with the medic, during which they discussed the changing room. Dr Searle said: 'I checked that she knew where the female changing room was and she was happy to use it, and she had used it previously in her other jobs, and that was the extent of our discussion.' She said because Dr Upton had used the female-only space in other jobs, and was comfortable doing so, she did not make any other suggestion. Dr Searle said: 'It was not an in depth discussion, I asked her if she was happy using the female changing room. She said yes. I had nothing else to add.' The tribunal heard that in preparation for the meeting the consultant looked at details including the 'Equality and Human Rights Commission statutory act' to confirm what the law was and that because 'Beth identifies as female she has every right to use the female changing room'. There was no NHS Fife policy on transgender staff at the time, the tribunal heard. Hearings, in Dundee, continue.
