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ABC News
3 days ago
- ABC News
Where have all the serial killers gone?
Sana Qadar: A quick warning before today's show, this episode is about serial killers, so it does get a bit dark. We touch on some heavy themes like sexual assault, child abuse, suicide and yes, murder. It also contains the names of Aboriginal people who have died. Do take care while listening to this one. Sana Qadar: So a bit of behind the scenes backstory to begin with. This is our final episode in our series, Criminal Psychology on All in the Mind. And we, the team here, we hesitated for a while on whether to do an episode on serial killers. Like we thought, hasn't enough been said? Haven't the plethora of true crime pods and documentaries and YouTube videos covered it all? Clips from social media: So let's get into the murders. You know why if he had two kids? I mean, how could he be a serial killer? We can look at one of Thailand's earliest known serial killers. Sana Qadar: Like is there anything new left to say? Clips from social media: He had shame because his mother made him feel shameful. Most serial killers suffer from some kind of personality disorder, usually psychopathy. Sana Qadar: And depending on just how obsessed you are with the true crime genre, the answer might be no. There's nothing new to say. You're across it all. But as we mulled over this topic, we wondered, why are all the serial killers we talk about, like Ivan Milat, the Backpacker Killer, Bradley Edwards, the Claremont Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy in the US, why are they all from decades ago? Like, when was the last time you saw a headline about a killer actively stalking a suburb or a patch of rural land? Archival news audio: Their bodies were found in the Belanglo State Forest in the New South Wales Southern Highlands. Archival news audio: Bundy, a former law student, conducted his own defense. Sana Qadar: So, are serial killers disappearing? And if so, why? Dr Rajan Darjee: My job as a forensic psychiatrist is to make sure the people I work with don't hurt people. And that's my primary responsibility. Sana Qadar: Today, from the lead crime hypothesis to chemical castration, we find out where all the serial killers have gone and what they might be doing instead. Dr Xanthe Mallett: You know, they are the worst of the worst. They are the bogeyman that we all fear. Sana Qadar: I'm Sana Qadar. This is Criminal Psychology on All in the Mind. Sana Qadar: So first off, I can confirm, we're not imagining this trend. Dr Rajan Darjee: The number of serial killers is definitely going down, or number of serial killings is going down. And we've seen that pattern in North America. We've seen it here. We've also seen it in places like the UK. So, it looks like serial killing peaked in the 70s and 80s and has been going down since then. And certainly, it's at a lower level now than it was, say, 20 or 30 years ago. Sana Qadar: This is Dr. Rajan Darjee. Dr Rajan Darjee: I'm a forensic psychiatrist. I'm based in Melbourne, and I'm the clinical director of Forensic Behavioral Assessment and Consultation Services. Sana Qadar: He has dealt with serial killers in his work, as well as killers he suspects would have gone on to become the serial variety if they hadn't been caught. Dr Rajan Darjee: I would say, just in terms of the people that I've seen, probably about one or two a year where I think the person would potentially have killed again. And that's because there's been something about them that drives them to kill, usually because they take pleasure in killing and it meets a need for them. But also, they have this profound lack of empathy. Sana Qadar: He says it's interesting to think about why there might be fewer cases of serial killers now, because it's not like those two characteristics have disappeared or even diminished. Dr Rajan Darjee: And so, there's two things that I think is important in their makeup. One is having the desire to kill. But having the desire to kill isn't enough. You have to also lack empathy, because empathy is the thing that puts the brakes on us doing things that might hurt other people or things that might get us into trouble. And the things that lead to those things are things like psychopathic personality traits. So, that's what leads to a lack of empathy. Now, that is probably no more or less common now than it was in the past, because that's largely due to inherited genetic factors and early upbringing. And in terms of the desire to kill, that can be based on all sorts of things. So, about 50% of people who commit serial murder, the desire to kill is based on sexual fantasies of killing. Sana Qadar: What was the percentage you said? Dr Rajan Darjee: About half of people who commit serial murder, it's sexually motivated. Sana Qadar: As for the other half, Dr. Darjee says a number of motivators can be at play. The person might get a thrill out of killing and a sense of power, or they might be a hitman. So, it's part of the job description. But to come back to the sexual motivation... Dr Rajan Darjee: So, and actually having a sexual desire to hurt other people probably isn't any more or less common now than it was before. So, what you're probably looking at in terms of why we have less serial killings now is things that mean people get caught after one murder. Sana Qadar: The obvious factors are advances in DNA science, advances in surveillance technology and CCTV, better policing. But Dr. Darjee says there are some less obvious factors at play as well. Dr Rajan Darjee: So, for example, if you look at what we've been doing since the 1990s, we are much better at actually how we treat and manage people who've committed offences. And I think we'd be much more, I'd call it evidence-based, but we're doing it based on what we know about patterns of behaviour. The other thing is, I think society in general, you know, we always talk about good old days, but there's no good old days. If you look backwards, every period before has been worse than now in terms of violence and abuse. And, you know, we've got things in society we just didn't have in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up. Sana Qadar: Like, what do you mean by that? Dr Rajan Darjee: Things like we actually have fairly well-developed child protection systems. We probably have a society where we're more willing to help each other, but also, and I think we have to be careful about this, we now live at a time where we're probably a bit less relaxed about letting children go out. We're probably a bit more cautious in general about how we go about our lives. And I think all of these things make it more difficult for people who want to target victims to be able to target victims. Sana Qadar: Yeah, I've read about things like how, you know, in the 60s, 70s, hitchhiking was very common. And so that lent to a lot of, you know, people falling victim. People were more likely to leave their doors unlocked kind of thing. So do you think that, yeah, that all plays into the fact that we're much more cautious now actually means there's less opportunity to be a victim of a serial killer? Dr Rajan Darjee: Yes, absolutely. You know, this idea that it was, you know, people left their doors and windows open in the past. That was not a good thing. You know, because people kind of say, well, I used to leave my doors open because things were so much safer. They weren't. Sana Qadar: Yeah. Dr Rajan Darjee: It's just because people used to do that. And therefore it just means people have got access to you if they want to harm you. I mean, hitchhiking was fairly common. I remember actually going hitchhiking myself in the UK back in the 80s, just because people hitchhike. It wasn't seen as a big deal, but I don't see people hitchhiking these days at all. And hitchhiking makes people vulnerable. And we saw that with the Ivan Millat case. Archival news audio: Two bodies were found today in a forest southwest of Sydney, near where the bodies... Sana Qadar: Ivan Milat. You cannot have a discussion about serial killers in Australia without talking about this man and his devastating crimes. Archival news audio: The police are anxious to make this search exhaustive. So they might be here in the Belanglo State Forest for some time. Sana Qadar: Between 1989 and 1992, Milat kidnapped and murdered at least seven young backpackers, aged 19 to 22, whose bodies were all found in the Belanglo State Forest between Sydney and Canberra. Archival news audio: Today, police confirmed the skeletal remains of the second body... Sana Qadar: They were British backpackers Caroline Clark and Joanne Walters, German backpackers Gabor Neugebauer, Anja Habscheid and Simone Schmidl, and Melbourne couple Deborah Everest and James Gibson. Sana Qadar: They'd all been hitchhiking when they were picked up by Milat. Sana Qadar: Okay, so in terms of why there might be fewer serial killers now, there's a confluence of factors. One is surveillance is better than it was before. We have DNA science. People are behaving differently, we're more cautious. But you also mentioned treatment has improved. Dr Rajan Darjee: Yeah, absolutely. I think if you kind of think of people who might commit serial murder, they might start by committing, say, violent sexual offences. They might move on to committing a homicide. And then if they were left to it, they would then go on to repeatedly do that. But if we were able to intervene earlier with people who commit violent rape offences or after they've committed a first murder, then we're less likely to have people who go on to commit a series of murders. Sana Qadar: And so how do you possibly treat these people? Can they be rehabilitated? Dr Rajan Darjee: Yes, I think they can be. But my starting point, if I see someone who's committed one murder and there's aspects of them that makes me think they've got a potential to commit another murder because, for example, they're sexually sadistic or psychopathic, then my starting point is to say, okay, unless we've got good evidence that we have managed to ameliorate what's going on with them, it's probably not gonna be safe for them to be back out in society. And then you have to think of, okay, what are the things that are driving them to hurt and kill people? And you have to look at what you can do to actually change those things. So, example, and this would apply to, I can think of three people I've met in three different jurisdictions that would fit this picture. So all three people I'm thinking of have been in prison for about 30 years. Sana Qadar: Oh, wow. Dr Rajan Darjee: They've been model prisoners. That's how they've been described. There haven't been problems with their behavior in prison for the last two decades. And people are saying, okay, they've been in prison for a long time now. We need to think about parole. And the thing is with those individuals, all have had sexual fancies that led to them doing what they did. One of them killed a child and two of them killed women. And so the thing is, although they were model prisoners, the question I ask myself is, okay, how do I know you haven't still got these sexual fancies? Now, one of them was saying, I do have these fancies, please help me. And he was tortured by them. One of them said, oh, I occasionally have these fancies, but most of the time I don't. And the other one denied having these fancies altogether. And my view in all of them was that we had to be sure that they weren't having these fancies. These fancies led to them killing people. And so what we did in all three cases is we offered them treatment with injectable, long acting, anti-libidinal medications. Sana Qadar: Like chemical castration? Dr Rajan Darjee: Yeah, that's what some people call it. But I don't like to call it that because there's kind of moralistic overtones and people can get a bit kind of, a bit punitive about it. I see it as a treatment that can offer people the opportunity to not have these fancies and urges. So the drugs that we give by injection, what they do is they basically, they down regulate the system in the body in men that is to do with testosterone. So it reduces testosterone to the level of a man who's been castrated. And what we know is you have to have testosterone in your brain to have sexual fancies and urges. And if you can take that away, then you're taking away the thing that motivates them to take pleasure from killing. And if they haven't got something that motivates them to take pleasure from killing, even if they still lack empathy, they're not going to seek pleasure from killing people. Now, it's not quite as simple as that because you want to make sure that you've done other things like all three of these individuals I'm thinking of all ends up being released to the community and they had a high level of monitoring and supervision by correctional services, police. There was lots going on around them. This isn't a case of, you know, you have the treatment, you're good to go and get on with your life. But they are people who've managed to be in the community with support and monitoring without hurting people. And if it wasn't for the drugs, in none of those cases would I have recommended that we even tried that. Sana Qadar: There is another theory for why we have fewer serial killers now and fewer violent crimes in general that has nothing to do with treatment or surveillance or DNA or a more cautious approach to strangers. It's called the lead crime hypothesis. It goes something like this. Before the 1980s, there was lead in gasoline, in water pipes, in paint, all over the environment. And exposure to lead, especially in childhood, has been linked to aggression and antisocial behavior. But since lead was phased out of fuel in particular, that has coincided with a steady decline in violent crime across the Western world. It's been most pronounced in the US where the homicide rate has halved since the 1980s. It's a compelling theory and a new book called Murderland from Pulitzer Prize winning author Caroline Frazier dives into it in immense detail. But compelling as it may be, Dr. Darjee isn't convinced. Dr Rajan Darjee: I think that if that has contributed, it's going to be a relatively minor contribution in the overall picture. You know, you can't take one factor like that and say that's the magic bullet. So, you know, it probably is a good idea that we don't get some degree of lead poisoning now. And it's probably a good idea that all sorts of things that are toxic are less likely to be things that we consume. And that might have an impact, but I don't think, you know, the fact that we've got less lead in our pipes now is probably a major factor in reducing violence and reducing serial killing. Sana Qadar: Yeah, I was sort of looking into the research around this and I found, you know, there's one meta-analysis that was published in 2022 that led the researchers to estimate that the reduction in lead pollution might be responsible for 7% to 28% of the decline in homicide in the US. So, you know, a small portion, although if it's the upper bound of 28%, that is a sizable portion. Dr Rajan Darjee: I didn't know about that specific research, but, you know, it's interesting to think about that. Yeah, it might contribute, but the thing is with any kind of association like that, it's very difficult to know what's causing it. And I'm sure they took into account things that might confound that relation to some extent, but with something that's environmental like that, it's very difficult to take into account all the confounding factors. Sana Qadar: We do know that lead is related to, like, aggression, though, in children, isn't it? Dr Rajan Darjee: It may be, but again, it's not, you know, as a forensic psychiatrist, it's not a factor that I have in my head as one of the major factors. I think, you know, being exposed to alcohol at a young age is going to cause problems with brain development and may potentially lead to some people being aggressive. So there's all sorts of things that can be toxic to the developing brain and, you know, that can potentially lead to aggressive behaviour. Sana Qadar: So not a whole lot of buy-in from Dr. Darjee, at least, on the lead crime hypothesis, but I'll just mention that meta-analysis from 2022. It looked at 24 studies and despite finding that 7 to 28% of the reduction in homicide in the US might be down to the decrease in lead pollution, it also noted there is a strong bias in the literature, meaning studies that show a strong correlation between lead and crime are more likely to get published than those that find a weaker correlation. If you want to find out more, we'll link to that paper in our show notes. Sana Qadar: Okay, so we've been talking about why there seem to be fewer serial killers out there these days. You don't really hear stories about active serial killers. And one of the reasons is they just get caught earlier now, after their first kill, whereas in previous eras, they might've gone on to become serial killers. But while there aren't any active cases in Australia in the news right now, that doesn't mean there aren't any serial killers out there at the moment, somewhere. Of course, a negative is very hard to prove, but consider what criminologist Xanthe Mallett has to say. Sana Qadar: I'm wondering, do you think there are still serial killers out there who are managing to go undetected? Dr Xanthe Mallett: Yeah, I certainly do. I mean, if you look at Bradley Edwards, he went unidentified for decades. Sana Qadar: Bradley Edwards, I'll just explain briefly, is the man you might otherwise know as the Claremont Killer in Perth. He wasn't convicted until 2020, but his crimes were primarily in the mid-90s when he killed 23-year-old Jane Rimmer and 27-year-old Ciara Glennon. Both women had been enjoying a night out when they disappeared. He was also suspected in the murder of another woman, 18-year-old Sarah Spears, but her body was never found, and so there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of that crime. And his conviction took so long because of a series of convoluted events involving contaminated DNA before there was a DNA breakthrough leading to his arrest in 2016. Dr Xanthe Mallett: And I don't want to cause any, you know, I'm not saying that we're running rampant with serial killers. Fortunately, we haven't had that many in Australia. But certainly, you know, people do disappear. They are still traveling around Australia. There is a lot of outback out there. And so, yeah, I do think there will be possibly one or two active serial killers, you know, in Australia that are currently unidentified. And the patterns haven't been recognized. Sana Qadar: And I do wonder if there are these people going undetected at the moment, if it's because they are perhaps targeting people that society seems to ignore. So like sex workers, indigenous women, people struggling with addiction. Dr Xanthe Mallett: That's exactly where I was going. They may be people who are already vulnerable. They may be suffering homelessness, or as you say, sex workers, and certainly indigenous women are vulnerable. So yes, and I think as a society, we weight life, don't we? We value life differently. And you only look at the Bowraville killings. You have three children under 16 murdered in a small place in Bowraville. Now, if that had been on the eastern suburbs of Sydney, three little Caucasian children, it would have made news headlines around the world. But in Australia, it's like, you know, the detectives couldn't get any media interest because they were, and I don't mean this, but just indigenous children. And that's horrific that we could have a serial killer picking off children and nobody cares. Archival news audio: The bodies of four-year-old Evelyn Greenup and 16-year-old Clinton Speedy were found in bushland. Sana Qadar: The Bowraville murders happened over a five-month period back in 1990 in the town of Bowraville on the mid-north coast of New South Wales. Archival news audio: Colleen Walker, also 16, is still missing, presumed dead. Sana Qadar: All three children knew each other and all disappeared after attending parties on the same street in Bowraville. The youngest victim, four-year-old Evelyn, disappeared after being put to bed at her grandmother's house. But when the families reported the children's disappearances, local police suggested some of them had gone walkabout. Police were ready to end their search. Archival news audio: Then, the grim discovery yesterday of a child's skull... Dr Xanthe Mallett: You know, this investigation was very poor initially. There was a very poor relationship between the police and that indigenous community. Eventually, new officers did come on board and they really did push to solve that case. Sana Qadar: A local man was the prime suspect for a number of years and he was charged with two of the murders, but then later acquitted. And so, in this case, no-one has ever been caught. Dr Xanthe Mallett: And it's heartbreaking that those three families still don't have answers. All of these years later, and I've met Evelyn's grandmother, and she's a beautiful person, and she still suffers to this day as a result of not knowing who is responsible or nobody being brought to justice. Sana Qadar: You're listening to Criminal Psychology on All In The Mind. I'm Sana Qadar. Sana Qadar: If we go back to our original premise now, that there are fewer serial killers in general than there used to be, the question I have is, what are these people doing instead, now that they're not serial killing? Like, are they all just sitting in jail? Dr Xanthe Mallett: Some of them are sitting in jail, for sure. Sana Qadar: Or have some people been deterred by how much harder it's become to get away with this kind of crime? Dr Rajan Darjee: I don't think deterrence works for these people. Sana Qadar: Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Rajan Darjee again. Dr Rajan Darjee: I mean, there's actually not much evidence that deterrence works full stop in terms of, if you look at the criminological literature, certainly doesn't work for people who repeatedly commit offences, because if you look at people who commit serial murder, they go out of their way to plan to control their victims, and they show a high degree of forensic awareness. So we looked at serial sexual murderers in Australia and New Zealand, compared them to one-off sexual murderers. And as you'd expect, a very high level of planning, precautions, and forensic awareness in serial sexual murderers compared to single sexual murderers. So, I don't think deterrence necessarily works for these individuals. And then you think about other things. Are there some people who have the same developments, but they decide not to enact this in reality? And that might be the case. We know that, for example, just to skip across to another type of behaviour, there's less contact child sexual abuse now than there has been over the last 30 years. At the same time, there's been an escalation in online child sexual abuse material offending. One hypothesis, and I'm not saying this is proved, is that there are a number of people now who are living out their fantasies online rather than living them out in the real world. Now, that doesn't mean that's great because to have child sexual abuse material, children have to be abused. So, it's still related to children being abused, but you've got a potentially different pattern of offending in some of these individuals. And it's plausible, although I don't know how we'd prove it, that some people are moving to kind of enacting their fantasies because you can do that in more and more real ways in virtual environments. Sana Qadar: It's all really dark to think about, but I just want to throw one more idea out there from criminologist Xanthe Mallett. It's related to domestic violence, but this idea requires a reframe in how we think about serial killings. Dr Xanthe Mallett: People committing domestic family violence, you know, we had some really serious offenders in that group, serial offenders. So, one of the things I'm interested in at the moment, I actually work in Central Queensland Uni in a centre for domestic and family violence research, so it's a perfect question. One of the things I'm interested in are the serial perpetrators, especially when there's an outcome of suicide for the victim. More people are dying as a result of suicide than domestic violence-related homicide, and they're really hidden victims. So, there's no, at the moment, there's no consequence for the person who drove them to it. So, these women and children are suiciding as a last resort. And so, I'm interested in the people who are driving these, usually women, to those kind of lengths. And to me, they're a type of serial killer because people are dying as a result of their actions. Sana Qadar: Now, we've mostly focused on a particular type of serial killer in this episode, kind of like the archetype, the person that targets vulnerable strangers late at night or the person who might be sexually motivated. But there are other types as well, like healthcare-based serial killers, sometimes referred to as angels of death. And the one you probably can think of most readily is Lucy Letby, the nurse who was found guilty of killing a number of babies in the UK, although it's worth mentioning there are still questions around her case. Either way, I wanted to ask Dr. Darjee whether those types of serial killers are in decline as well and what we know about healthcare serial killers. Dr Rajan Darjee: I mean, I think all types of serial killer are in decline. When you think about people who do this in healthcare settings, again, there's something about killing that is a need for them. And in many of these cases, it's the need either to have the power of control over life and death, and it sometimes overlaps with something we see in factitious disorder by proxy or Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Sana Qadar: Just briefly, if you want to know more about Munchausen by proxy, that was the subject of episode one of our series on criminal psychology. Scroll back in your podcast feed to listen to that after this, if you haven't already. Dr Rajan Darjee: Where these individuals create a scenario where someone is close to death or going to die so that they can get involved in or see what happens. Sana Qadar: So the drama of it? Dr Rajan Darjee: Yes, to some extent, the drama of it, but also, as I say, that ability to have the power over life and death becomes something that's intensely important in that individual. So it's not a sexual need, it's that particular need. But again, there'll be reasons why these particular individuals lack empathy so that what they do is they act out their needs because there's no break on that at all. And that lack of empathy doesn't mean that people have got psychopathy. You can get lack of empathy because you're highly narcissistic even though you're not necessarily psychopathic. You can have lack of empathy because you're a very detached individual, someone that we might describe as schizoid. Sana Qadar: One question I want to ask is, you said your job is to make sure people don't hurt other people. I guess over your years working in forensic psychiatry, have you come to any conclusions or reflections on human nature? Like, how do you process these crimes, the worst that humans can do to each other? Dr Rajan Darjee: It's an interesting question because, look, and I'm trying to say this in the right way, I don't look at things through framework and morality. I don't think that's helpful. And so I describe myself as amoral, not immoral, because I don't think morality helps us. And I don't look at things through the view of evil because I don't think these kind of religious, superstitious concepts help us. I think it's really important for us to understand people, understand what we actually know about why people do things and how they function, because then we can do something about it. And perhaps, again, and I don't know whether this is just me or other people who work in a similar field, but I think you have to have the right balance of being able to disconnect yourself from what happens, but not lose sight of humans, both victims and perpetrators. And one of the things I always say with my work is I know the victims, I understand the victims, that's why I do what I do. But to actually prevent people being victimized, I have to know perpetrators. And that involves forming positive relationships with them because then I can work with them to prevent victims being caused. The why is the victims and the how is by understanding perpetrators. Sana Qadar: That is forensic psychiatrist Dr. Rajan Darjee. And that concludes our series, Criminal Psychology on All in the Mind. Although it's not all over yet. We thought there are so many angles on the topic of serial killers that we didn't cover in this episode. And there's so many angles left to explore in the other episodes in the series as well. So if you feel like you've been left with actually some burning questions you'd love to have answered, or if you're a giant true crime fan and have always wanted to ask a forensic psychiatrist some questions, we are gonna do a follow-up episode, a mailbag episode, where I will put your questions directly to Dr. Rajan Darjee. It'll be our first time trying this format. So please send your questions in. You can send them to mind_rn@ and put in the subject line, criminal psychology question. Again, the address is mind_rn@ And I will put your questions to Dr. Darjee in a couple of weeks. And if this is the first episode of Criminal Psychology you've listened to, there are three others. We've also covered Munchausen by proxy, arson and pyromania, and theft and kleptomania. You can scroll back in your podcast feed and find all four episodes. But for this episode, apart from Dr. Darjee, you also heard from associate professor of criminology at Central Queensland University, Dr. Xanthe Mallett. Thanks to producer Rose Kerr, senior producer James Bullen, and sound engineer Emrys Cronin. I'm Sana Qadar. Thank you for listening. I'll catch you next time.
Buzz Feed
6 days ago
- Buzz Feed
What Are Old True Crime Stories No One Knows Now?
People have been obsessed with true crime forever. In fact, if you grew up before the internet was a ~thing~, you probably remember how certain crime stories would sweep the nation either by word of mouth, good ol' fashioned newspapers, or by being on TV CONSTANTLY. Like, EVERYONE and their mom knew about them! And maybe you're shocked to find out that some of those crime stories that were a big deal back then seem to have all but been forgotten since. For example, if you were around in the '70s, you probably recall the widespread media coverage of serial killer Ted Bundy's case. You remember how soooo many young women were obsessed with Ted, despite the fact that he kidnapped, raped, and murdered at least 30 young women and girls. Meanwhile, your 22-year-old neighbor has no idea who you're talking about. Or, perhaps, you were in school in the '90s and remember coming home every day to your parents talking nonstop about the terrible story of Polly Klaas, a little girl who was kidnapped and murdered. But when you bring up the story now to your younger coworkers, they just shrug their shoulders. Maybe as a kid growing up in the '80s, you recall your mom throwing out all the medicine containers in your house as the story of the Tylenol Murders, where seven people died after ingesting cyanide-laced Tylenol capsules, unfolded. And when you look at safety packaging on EVERYTHING now, you can't resist but tell your kids about WHY it's there. Whatever your experience was, we want to hear all about it! So, tell us, what's a true crime story from "back in the day" that everyone was obsessed with that ~young people~ now might not have any idea about? Tell us in the comments below or via this totally anonymous form and your story could be featured in a future BuzzFeed post or video!
Scottish Sun
13-07-2025
- Scottish Sun
I woke up with Ted Bundy looming over me with log… he shattered my jaw & left me to die but I survived in stroke of luck
'I remember squinting into the dark, not wearing my glasses, and seeing this black shadow standing above me' BRUSH WITH DEATH I woke up with Ted Bundy looming over me with log… he shattered my jaw & left me to die but I survived in stroke of luck Click to share on X/Twitter (Opens in new window) Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) KATHY Kleiner Rubin was in her second year at university when she was mercilessly attacked with a log by depraved serial killer, Ted Bundy. The Florida-born author is one of the few women to have survived an encounter with the sadist, who was later found guilty of rape, necrophilia, and murder. 11 Kathy Kleiner Rubin's first Christmas after she was attacked by Ted Bundy in 1978 Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Kathy (front right) with her Chi Omega sorority sisters Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Theodore Bundy, more commonly known as Ted, waved to a TV camera following his indictment for the murders of Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman Credit: Getty Among his victims were 21-year-old Margaret Bowman and 20-year-old Lisa Levy, who were murdered just minutes before the 33-year-old launched his assault on Kathy. Bundy was executed in 1989, when he admitted to murdering at least 30 women in his four-year-long reign of horror. But his notoriety has lived on, with books and films often depicting the sadist as a charismatic killer who lured his victims with his good looks. Decades later, Kathy has revealed how she has found peace by giving a voice to his victims and exposing Bundy's "true" nature. Speaking exclusively to The Sun, she described him as a "loser and a sociopath" who craved the world's attention. NIGHT OF THE ATTACK When Kathy was attacked, she was a second-year student at Florida State University, living in Chi Omega sorority house with girls 'who felt like sisters'. She had spent the afternoon at a church friend's wedding but decided to head back early with her dormmate, Karen Chandler, to study for her calculus exam the following Monday. The pair's room was not dissimilar to any other dorm room: two single beds pushed against opposite walls, separated by a small trunk and a large bay window with curtains that remained open 'all the time'. When they turned the lights off at around 11:30pm, Kathy fell straight to sleep. In the early hours of the morning, she awoke to the 'swish' sound of the carpet. I'm a criminologist - Ted Bundy stood no chance against one particular type of victim, it's why he never targeted them 'I remember squinting into the dark, not wearing my glasses, and seeing this black shadow standing above me, looking at me. 'I was just waking up a little bit and he had that log in his hand. "I can close my eyes and I can see my room. And I can see him standing over me. And this is something I'll never forget," she said. Wielding the same log he had used to kill her two much-adored sorority sisters, and which he had stolen from the house's fireplace, Bundy struck Kathy's jaw. The sheer force shattered the bone and splintered her chin - exposing her teeth and almost severing her tongue. "When he hit me, my first feeling was like hitting a bag of potatoes. You know, it didn't hurt," she added. But it wasn't long before adrenaline turned to agonising pain. 11 Kathy has found peace by giving a voice to Bundy's victims Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Kathy struggled in the period after the attack but held onto her faith to keep her going Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Kathy married Scott Rubin, who she has been with for over three decades and who has been a 'wonderful father' to her son, Michael Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin "It hurt so bad. The most intense pain I have ever felt," she recalled. Moments later, a rustle in the neighbouring bed turned Bundy's attention to Karen. Tripping over Kathy's trunk, he stumbled to his next victim, before mercilessly bludgeoning her too. In a stroke of immense fortune, the pair were saved when a couple returning home parked up beside the sorority house. I thought I was yelling and screaming for help but all I was doing was making gurgling sounds from all the blood in my mouth Kathy Kleiner Rubin The headlights flooded the room with light, startling Bundy, who ran away. Kathy said: 'I was moaning and groaning and I thought I was yelling and screaming for help but all I was doing was making gurgling sounds from all the blood in my mouth. 'He came back over to my side of the room so I tucked myself into the smallest ball. I thought if he didn't see me, he wouldn't kill me.' 'He looked at me. He raised his arm up over his head, but just as he was about to hit me again, a bright light shone through our window, 'He got real antsy and started moving around. Then he ran out of the room." I thought if he didn't see me, he wouldn't kill me Kathy Kleiner Rubin Whimpering, Kathy tried calling for help but managed no more than a few "gurgling sounds" through all of the blood. Karen was able to stumble to get help as Kathy passed out from the pain. She recalled: 'I woke up and a police officer was standing at the head of my bed looking at me. 'I touched my face and it was warm with blood. I was in excruciating pain – it felt like daggers and knives. But he just told me 'it's going to be OK.'' "I knew, having been so scared that this person was going to take care of me." PATH TO HAPPINESS Kathy never returned to university and spent the next nine weeks with her jaw wired shut at her parents' house in Miami. Therapy wasn't an option for the young girl who was raised by Cuban parents, where sweeping problems under the rug was the "done thing". Instead, her parents did all they could to help her physically recover and protect her from the trauma of what happened. "My mum wanted to shield me from the news and hearing about my sorority sisters so she would take the newspaper and cut all of the articles out that would mention Bundy," she said. One day they were a victim and the next day they became a survivor Kathy Kleiner Rubin Meanwhile, Kathy took "baby steps" to heal from the psychological wounds left from Bundy's attack - but also from the anger and sadness of leaving behind her freedom and friends at university. She said: "I walked outside and felt the sun on my face and looked up at the trees and saw each individual leaf, that's part of the branch, that's part of the tree. "And looking at the bugs on the ground and seeing how they interact. That's life. "And I wanted to be part of life. I wanted to be part of what was so natural." Kathy recognised exposure therapy would be crucial in her path to recovery so she got a job working at a lumber yard, where she would be surrounded by men everyday. 11 Kathy now lives in Florida with her husband Scott Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Kathy said sharing her story with the world has helped her heal and connect with other survivors Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin While she grew progressively less scared, dark thoughts of a figure standing behind her lingered. Leaning on her faith, she imagined herself walking away from the darkness - each day, taking one step closer to the "light" at the end of the road. She has since co-authored a book with writer Emilie Lebau-Luchessi, in which she revisited in painfully vivid detail the events of that night. Although challenging, Kathy said sharing her story with the world has helped her heal and connect with other survivors. "They just need to know that one day they were a victim and the next day they became a survivor. "That survivor has to live the rest of their life and they can talk about it and they can feel it but they shouldn't dwell on it. "They need to move on and and not let this put them in a box but just take baby steps to heal themselves," she said. 11 Kathy graduating from high school Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin 11 Kathy in 1990, almost a decade after the attack Credit: Kathy Kleiner Rubin
The Sun
13-07-2025
- The Sun
I woke up with Ted Bundy looming over me with log… he shattered my jaw & left me to die but I survived in stroke of luck
KATHY Kleiner Rubin was in her second year at university when she was mercilessly attacked with a log by depraved serial killer, Ted Bundy. The Florida-born author is one of the few women to have survived an encounter with the sadist, who was later found guilty of rape, necrophilia, and murder. 11 11 Among his victims were 21-year-old Margaret Bowman and 20-year-old Lisa Levy, who were murdered just minutes before the 33-year-old launched his assault on Kathy. Bundy was executed in 1989, when he admitted to murdering at least 30 women in his four-year-long reign of horror. But his notoriety has lived on, with books and films often depicting the sadist as a charismatic killer who lured his victims with his good looks. Decades later, Kathy has revealed how she has found peace by giving a voice to his victims and exposing Bundy's "true" nature. Speaking exclusively to The Sun, she described him as a "loser and a sociopath" who craved the world's attention. NIGHT OF THE ATTACK When Kathy was attacked, she was a second-year student at Florida State University, living in Chi Omega sorority house with girls 'who felt like sisters'. She had spent the afternoon at a church friend's wedding but decided to head back early with her dormmate, Karen Chandler, to study for her calculus exam the following Monday. The pair's room was not dissimilar to any other dorm room: two single beds pushed against opposite walls, separated by a small trunk and a large bay window with curtains that remained open 'all the time'. When they turned the lights off at around 11:30pm, Kathy fell straight to sleep. In the early hours of the morning, she awoke to the 'swish' sound of the carpet. 'I remember squinting into the dark, not wearing my glasses, and seeing this black shadow standing above me, looking at me. 'I was just waking up a little bit and he had that log in his hand. "I can close my eyes and I can see my room. And I can see him standing over me. And this is something I'll never forget," she said. Wielding the same log he had used to kill her two much-adored sorority sisters, and which he had stolen from the house's fireplace, Bundy struck Kathy's jaw. The sheer force shattered the bone and splintered her chin - exposing her teeth and almost severing her tongue. "When he hit me, my first feeling was like hitting a bag of potatoes. You know, it didn't hurt," she added. But it wasn't long before adrenaline turned to agonising pain. 11 11 "It hurt so bad. The most intense pain I have ever felt," she recalled. Moments later, a rustle in the neighbouring bed turned Bundy's attention to Karen. Tripping over Kathy's trunk, he stumbled to his next victim, before mercilessly bludgeoning her too. In a stroke of immense fortune, the pair were saved when a couple returning home parked up beside the sorority house. I thought I was yelling and screaming for help but all I was doing was making gurgling sounds from all the blood in my mouth Kathy Kleiner Rubin The headlights flooded the room with light, startling Bundy, who ran away. Kathy said: 'I was moaning and groaning and I thought I was yelling and screaming for help but all I was doing was making gurgling sounds from all the blood in my mouth. 'He came back over to my side of the room so I tucked myself into the smallest ball. I thought if he didn't see me, he wouldn't kill me.' 'He looked at me. He raised his arm up over his head, but just as he was about to hit me again, a bright light shone through our window, 'He got real antsy and started moving around. Then he ran out of the room." I thought if he didn't see me, he wouldn't kill me Kathy Kleiner Rubin Whimpering, Kathy tried calling for help but managed no more than a few "gurgling sounds" through all of the blood. Karen was able to stumble to get help as Kathy passed out from the pain. She recalled: 'I woke up and a police officer was standing at the head of my bed looking at me. 'I touched my face and it was warm with blood. I was in excruciating pain – it felt like daggers and knives. But he just told me 'it's going to be OK.'' "I knew, having been so scared that this person was going to take care of me." PATH TO HAPPINESS Kathy never returned to university and spent the next nine weeks with her jaw wired shut at her parents' house in Miami. Therapy wasn't an option for the young girl who was raised by Cuban parents, where sweeping problems under the rug was the "done thing". Instead, her parents did all they could to help her physically recover and protect her from the trauma of what happened. "My mum wanted to shield me from the news and hearing about my sorority sisters so she would take the newspaper and cut all of the articles out that would mention Bundy," she said. Meanwhile, Kathy took "baby steps" to heal from the psychological wounds left from Bundy's attack - but also from the anger and sadness of leaving behind her freedom and friends at university. She said: "I walked outside and felt the sun on my face and looked up at the trees and saw each individual leaf, that's part of the branch, that's part of the tree. "And looking at the bugs on the ground and seeing how they interact. That's life. "And I wanted to be part of life. I wanted to be part of what was so natural." Kathy recognised exposure therapy would be crucial in her path to recovery so she got a job working at a lumber yard, where she would be surrounded by men everyday. 11 11 While she grew progressively less scared, dark thoughts of a figure standing behind her lingered. Leaning on her faith, she imagined herself walking away from the darkness - each day, taking one step closer to the "light" at the end of the road. She has since co-authored a book with writer Emilie Lebau-Luchessi, in which she revisited in painfully vivid detail the events of that night. Although challenging, Kathy said sharing her story with the world has helped her heal and connect with other survivors. "They just need to know that one day they were a victim and the next day they became a survivor. "That survivor has to live the rest of their life and they can talk about it and they can feel it but they shouldn't dwell on it. "They need to move on and and not let this put them in a box but just take baby steps to heal themselves," she said. 11 11
Yahoo
10-07-2025
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
Serial killer-inspired baby names are trending — revealing how culture can ‘creep into our minds,' experts say
Expecting parents are taking a stab at it — quite literally. Villains, crooks and knife-wielding nuts. Although they're bad guys of society, their first names are becoming bloody good options for moms and dads-to-be, per a nightmarish new report. Baby names inspired by true crime icons, such as accused con artist Anna Delvey and mass murderer Ted Bundy, are on the rise, according BabyCentre UK and its Top 100 Baby Names of 2025. But the bloodcurdling trend has less to do with wrongdoer-worship and more to do with Hollywood's outlaw obsession. 'These names aren't being chosen because of crime,' SJ Strum, a BabyCentre naming expert and author, explained in a statement. 'More often, parents are unconsciously absorbing popular culture, and these names creep into our minds via gripping TV, podcasts and viral content.' 'It's a fascinating lens on how culture shapes language, and by extension, baby names,' she added. Nursery rhymes and true crime. The killer kiddos of Generation Beta — tots born this year and beyond — can blame the theme on the streams. Streaming platforms, like Netflix, have recently made a killing off of shows, documentaries and movies that spotlight salacious sins of notorious rouges. Think Zac Efron as Bundy in 2019 flick 'Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile,' Joe Exotic's story in 2020 series 'Tiger King' and Delvey's 'Inventing Anna'-inspired thriller in 2022. In a number of cases, the cinematic sneak peek into the lives of the offenders has offered audiences a new perspective on the men and women behind the crimes, humanizing the antiheroes as misunderstood martyrs. And the names currently flooding the maternity are living proof of the media's freaky influence. Here are the true crime-inspired monikers featured in BabyCentre's top 100 baby names for 2025. Anna – The 'Fake Heiress' Anna Delvey Arthur – Arthur Lee Allen, 'This is the Zodiac Speaking,' suspected Zodiac Killer Bella – Inspired by wellness scammer, Belle Gibson Erin – Erin Patterson, The Mushroom Killer Freddie & Rose – The story of serial killer couple Fred and Rose West, featured in Netflix's 'Fred and Rose West: A British Horror Story' Joseph – A nod to 'Joe Exotic', Tiger King Luca – From the documentary 'Don't F** with Cats' Teddy – A nickname inspired by serial killer Ted Bundy Ruby – From doc 'Devil in the Family: The Fall of Ruby Franke,' an alleged child abuser Ronnie & Reggie – As in the notorious London gangsters, the Kray twins, featured in film 'Legends.'
