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The Guardian
29-01-2025
- Entertainment
- The Guardian
Brian and Maggie review – it's a real worry when Margaret Thatcher seems this admirable
Brian and Maggie is a two-parter billed as a docuseries by its creators that traces the relationship between former Labour MP turned journalist Brian Walden (Steve Coogan) and Conservative prime minister Margaret Thatcher (Harriet Walter) and its abrupt ending, brought about by his uncustomarily scorching interview with her after chancellor Nigel Lawson's shock resignation in 1989. Written by Sherwood's James Graham, it is directed by Stephen Frears and boasts a cast full of notables fit to stand alongside Coogan and Walter. Yet it is an odd beast, perhaps because it is trying to do so much. It is partly an examination of the importance of the long-form political interview, for which Walden was famous, in a democratic society, and a lament for a bygone age when the argument for it could still be made. It is partly an examination of proximity to power and the cosiness that can develop between people who move in overlapping circles, the boundaries that can be crossed and what happens if you try to re-establish them. It's about friendship, commonalities, betrayals of many kinds. It's about 80s politics generally, Thatcherism specifically, the attraction felt for an ideologue and the ramifications when it wanes. It's about class politics too, as Walden and Thatcher bond over their own-bootstraps upbringings and earned entry into the rarefied worlds of media and politics that their publicly schooled colleagues were effortlessly ushered into. It's also a little bit about humanising rather than (further) demonising Thatcher, in showing what drove her and what she truly believed in. If she comes to look more admirable in her convictions than in previous portrayals, it is not revisionism at work but rather a measure of how extraordinarily, blatantly and provably venal and corrupt our last few crops of governing politicians have been. Are we in a bad way when Thatcher begins to look like the way and the light? Yes, yes we are. But on with the show itself. In trying to do so much, it does – as you might expect – none of it quite well enough. The friendship, or at least the growing connection and understanding, between Walden and the prime minister and the difficulties and compromises it represents as the personal, political and professional collide is the most subtly worked element. The shading of Thatcher's iconoclasm into isolation – the loneliness of rising to the top on your own terms – is convincing and (depending on where you stood in the 80s, how well you can put aside memories of the time) almost moving. But elsewhere there are great gobbets of exposition and extensive speechifying on every theme. 'We were, still are, the only ones to put the interviewee through their paces for an entire show,' says London Weekend Television producer David Cox (Tom Mothersdale) as he tries to convince Walden to take over from Peter Jay as presenter of Weekend World. 'Because political interviews ought to play a part in ordinary people's understanding of the political landscape.' Got that? Similarly clunking scenes occur between cabinet members, especially when it becomes time to explain who stands where on Europe and the exchange rate mechanism versus a floating currency. And there is the occasional simply terrible line, such as Cox's assurance to Walden as he preps for the great showdown: 'You're not a good interviewer, Brian. You're an exceptional interviewer.' It makes for a herky-jerky dramatic experience, and this is – whatever it is billed as – a drama. The 'docuseries' label is presumably demanded because verbatim extracts are performed by Coogan and Walters. But drama it is, and as drama, it fails to catch fire. This may also be due to the fact that Walden v Thatcher is not and never will be Frost v Nixon. It does not have iconic cultural status. Nobody remembers where they were when Walden asked Maggie if she was to blame for Lawson's resignation. It was not instrumental in her downfall. He was in the right place at the right time, just as the resentful man-babies were gathering to push her off the cliff. Which is not to say Brian and Maggie isn't interesting or doesn't give you plenty to think about and chew over later (including the parts of the interview in which Walden criticises her inability to show warmth, which haven't aged well in a more egalitarian age). But there is a detached, declamatory aspect to it overall that prevents the whole from triumphing. Brian and Maggie is on Channel 4 now.
Yahoo
28-01-2025
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
The true story behind Channel 4's Brian and Maggie
Channel 4's Brian and Maggie recreates one of the most infamous political TV interviews in history between journalist and former MP Brian Walden and then prime minister Margaret Thatcher. The drama explores the friendship that developed between the pair in the years before they sat down for the interview in 1989, which has been credited for being one of the tipping points in Thatcher's career in the lead up to her fall from power. Steve Coogan takes on the role of Walden and stars opposite Harriet Walter's Thatcher in the two-part series. Here is everything that you need to know about the real life event. Walden was first a politician before he entered the world of TV, acting as Labour MP for Birmingham All Saints in 1964 before gaining the nomination in Birmingham Ladywood in 1974 until 1977. During this time, Walden is said to have become disillusioned by Labour's rise of left wing politics. In 1977 Walden resigned from the House of Commons to pursue a career as a broadcaster and journalist, at the time he said: "I am not leaving because of any disenchantment with the Government. I have gone for positive, not negative reasons." He joined Weekend World and worked for the programme for nine years, interviewing several leading political voices and becoming known as one of the "most feared" interviewers. As well as Weekend World, he fronted programmes The Walden Interview and Walden. While it was their exchanges in TV interviews that became known to the public, Walden and Thatcher first met years earlier in the House of Commons when the latter became Conservative leader in 1975. They had a mutual respect for one another, which is why Thatcher went on to agree to multiple interviews with Walden when he went into broadcasting. Read more: Harriet Walter on playing Margaret Thatcher: 'I shifted to seeing her as a human being' (The Independent, 11-min read) In one such interview in 1983 the journalist coining the term "Victorian values" to describe her policies, a phrase which the prime minister later used herself. The broadcaster worked with Thatcher outside the newsroom too, writing a speech for her during the 1983 general election campaign, and later describing her as "the master spirit of our age". They became friends, and were said to have a good rapport because Walden found Thatcher both funny and endearing, she was said to have reminded him of his mother because of her "wonderful dogmatism". The feeling appeared to be mutual, as Thatcher agreed to be interviewed by Walden on multiple occasions, even though she turned other programmes down. Thatcher and Walden's friendship was tested to its limits in October 1989 when the prime minister agreed to be interviewed by the journalist on The Walden Interview. Chancellor Nigel Lawson had resigned over Thatcher's refusal to sack Sir Alan Walters, her economics adviser, which changed the course of the interview. While the interview had been planned for months, Lawson's resignation became a key talking point especially as the Tories were turning against Thatcher. Walden delivered his signature tenacity in the interview, grilling Thatcher over recent events and asking hard-hitting questions that eventually saw the Prime Minister flounder under pressure. Read more: Thatcher so lacking in empathy she would have been diagnosed with disorder today, says Steve Coogan(The Telegraph, 3-min read) In one memorable exchange, Walden asked Thatcher: "You come over as being someone who one of your backbenchers said is slightly off her trolley, authoritarian, domineering, refusing to listen to anybody else — why? Why can't you publicly project what you have just told me is your private character?" Thatcher responded: "Brian, if anyone's coming over as domineering in this interview, it's you. It's you." Later British political writer John Campbell wrote that Walden's 'journalistic instinct' and the then-PM's 'lack of candour' resulted in 3 million people witnessing a 'a devastating expose' of her. It is said the interview was instrumental in changing political opinion of her forever as it quickly became a national talking point. The interview became Thatcher's final appearance on TV before she resigned from office on 28 November, 1990. Walden and Thatcher are said to have never spoken again. Brian and Maggie premieres on Channel 4 on Wednesday, 29 January at 9pm.
Yahoo
28-01-2025
- Entertainment
- Yahoo
The true story behind Channel 4's Brian and Maggie
Channel 4's Brian and Maggie recreates one of the most infamous political TV interviews in history between journalist and former MP Brian Walden and then prime minister Margaret Thatcher. The drama explores the friendship that developed between the pair in the years before they sat down for the interview in 1989, which has been credited for being one of the tipping points in Thatcher's career in the lead up to her fall from power. Steve Coogan takes on the role of Walden and stars opposite Harriet Walter's Thatcher in the two-part series. Here is everything that you need to know about the real life event. Walden was first a politician before he entered the world of TV, acting as Labour MP for Birmingham All Saints in 1964 before gaining the nomination in Birmingham Ladywood in 1974 until 1977. During this time, Walden is said to have become disillusioned by Labour's rise of left wing politics. In 1977 Walden resigned from the House of Commons to pursue a career as a broadcaster and journalist, at the time he said: "I am not leaving because of any disenchantment with the Government. I have gone for positive, not negative reasons." He joined Weekend World and worked for the programme for nine years, interviewing several leading political voices and becoming known as one of the "most feared" interviewers. As well as Weekend World, he fronted programmes The Walden Interview and Walden. While it was their exchanges in TV interviews that became known to the public, Walden and Thatcher first met years earlier in the House of Commons when the latter became Conservative leader in 1975. They had a mutual respect for one another, which is why Thatcher went on to agree to multiple interviews with Walden when he went into broadcasting. Read more: Harriet Walter on playing Margaret Thatcher: 'I shifted to seeing her as a human being' (The Independent, 11-min read) In one such interview in 1983 the journalist coining the term "Victorian values" to describe her policies, a phrase which the prime minister later used herself. The broadcaster worked with Thatcher outside the newsroom too, writing a speech for her during the 1983 general election campaign, and later describing her as "the master spirit of our age". They became friends, and were said to have a good rapport because Walden found Thatcher both funny and endearing, she was said to have reminded him of his mother because of her "wonderful dogmatism". The feeling appeared to be mutual, as Thatcher agreed to be interviewed by Walden on multiple occasions, even though she turned other programmes down. Thatcher and Walden's friendship was tested to its limits in October 1989 when the prime minister agreed to be interviewed by the journalist on The Walden Interview. Chancellor Nigel Lawson had resigned over Thatcher's refusal to sack Sir Alan Walters, her economics adviser, which changed the course of the interview. While the interview had been planned for months, Lawson's resignation became a key talking point especially as the Tories were turning against Thatcher. Walden delivered his signature tenacity in the interview, grilling Thatcher over recent events and asking hard-hitting questions that eventually saw the Prime Minister flounder under pressure. Read more: Thatcher so lacking in empathy she would have been diagnosed with disorder today, says Steve Coogan(The Telegraph, 3-min read) In one memorable exchange, Walden asked Thatcher: "You come over as being someone who one of your backbenchers said is slightly off her trolley, authoritarian, domineering, refusing to listen to anybody else — why? Why can't you publicly project what you have just told me is your private character?" Thatcher responded: "Brian, if anyone's coming over as domineering in this interview, it's you. It's you." Later British political writer John Campbell wrote that Walden's 'journalistic instinct' and the then-PM's 'lack of candour' resulted in 3 million people witnessing a 'a devastating expose' of her. It is said the interview was instrumental in changing political opinion of her forever as it quickly became a national talking point. The interview became Thatcher's final appearance on TV before she resigned from office on 28 November, 1990. Walden and Thatcher are said to have never spoken again. Brian and Maggie premieres on Channel 4 on Wednesday, 29 January at 9pm.
The Independent
27-01-2025
- Entertainment
- The Independent
The interview that shook Thatcher: ‘Brian and Maggie' revisits a turning point in Britain's political history
Margaret Thatcher rarely flinched in the face of scrutiny. But one interview, aired on 29 October 1989, proved to be a turning point in her premiership. Conducted by Brian Walden, the former MP turned feared political interviewer, the grilling exposed the Iron Lady's vulnerabilities and is now widely seen as a moment that hastened her downfall. That fateful encounter is the focus of Brian and Maggie, a new Channel 4 docudrama starring Harriet Walter (Succession) as Thatcher and Steve Coogan as Walden. Written by Olivier Award-winning playwright James Graham (Sherwood, Quiz, Brexit: The Uncivil War) and directed by Stephen Frears (The Queen, Philomena), the drama revisits the intensity of the interview that saw a rarely flustered Thatcher visibly agitated. The docudrama draws from a chapter in Rob Burley's 2023 book Why is This Lying Bastard Lying To Me? and delves into both the professional dynamic and the unexpected personal connection between Thatcher and Walden. Brian Walden's rise to prominence was unusual. Born in West Bromwich in 1932, he served as the Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood from 1964 until 1977, when he resigned to pursue a career in journalism. By the 1980s, he was a household name in political journalism, hosting Weekend World and later launching his own programme, The Walden Interview. Despite their differing political allegiances, Thatcher and Walden had a mutual respect that developed into a surprising friendship. Walden once likened Thatcher to his mother and described her as 'the master spirit of our age.' During her 1983 general election campaign, he even penned a speech for her, coining the term 'Victorian values' – a phrase she famously adopted. By 1989, Thatcher was under pressure. Her chancellor, Nigel Lawson, had resigned just three days before the interview, citing her refusal to sack her economics adviser, Sir Alan Walters. Although the interview had been scheduled months earlier, it became dominated by Lawson's resignation and the chaos within her government. Broadcast to an audience of three million, the interview was a relentless cross-examination of Thatcher's authority and decision-making. Walden pressed her repeatedly on Lawson's departure, asking: 'Do you deny that Nigel would have stayed if you had sacked Professor Alan Walters?' A visibly uncomfortable Thatcher could only reply, 'I don't know.' After admitting, 'I did everything possible to stop him [from resigning],' Walden called her response 'a terrible admission.' Increasingly flustered, Thatcher snapped, 'I'm not going on with this.' The exchange led political biographer John Campbell to call it 'the killer question' in his 2003 book on Thatcher. Later, when Walden asked whether she was seen as 'authoritarian' or 'domineering,' Thatcher accused him of being exactly that, describing his questioning style as 'domineering.' Matthew Parris, who succeeded Walden as the host of Weekend World, reflected on the interview in The Times: 'How had she missed his ability to sting? He had, after all, coaxed her into attaching herself to the phrase 'Victorian values.' Thatcher was no Victorian. She was a modern woman of the 1950s, a science graduate who had married a divorcee and sacrificed her kids to her career.' The interview, which became Thatcher's final televised appearance, marked a shift in public and political opinion of her leadership. Just over a year later, amid mounting challenges to her authority, Thatcher resigned as prime minister. She stepped down on 22 November 1990, delivering a defiant final speech to the House of Commons in which she quipped, 'I'm enjoying this.' Her premiership lasted 11 years and six months, making her the UK's longest-serving prime minister of the 20th century. She was succeeded by John Major. Thatcher and Walden never spoke again after the interview. Walden, who passed away in 2019 at his home in Guernsey, remains a revered figure in British political journalism. During his career, he redefined the political interview style alongside contemporaries like Robin Day. Paying tribute to him, Andrew Neil wrote: 'Always wise and witty. A wonderful interrogator of politicians, especially on Weekend World. With Robin Day, he invented the British political interview style. Emulated but not matched to this day.' Brian and Maggie not only revisits the drama of the interview itself but also explores the dynamics between two formidable figures who, for a time, walked the fine line between professional respect and personal rapport. Harriet Walter and Steve Coogan lead the cast with performances that promise to capture both the gravity and the humanity of the moment. The docudrama is also a study in the fragility of power. 'Thatcher was at the peak of her dominance, yet it was here that cracks began to show,' Graham said of the project. 'It's a story about how even the strongest leaders can be undone.'
