Is this the end of free-to-air TV? A veteran weighs in
Meakin: He did say that, and when Kerry Packer saw it, he was outraged, and we were promptly summoned into his offices in Park Street, and bawled out for discussing virginity in prime time. We defended it, and the argument turned on him not wanting eight minutes of that rubbish on his channel. I said, 'It wasn't eight minutes, Mr Packer'. He said, 'Well, how much was it?' I said, 'It was five minutes, 29 seconds'. He insisted it was eight and took a bet that he was right, and when an executive emerged from the next office with a stopwatch, and it was 5 minutes and 29 seconds, I won. So Kerry gave me a $10 note because I'd won the bet, and we were given a lift back to Channel Nine in his chauffeur-driven Mercedes. And that was Packer; he used to sound off on a number of occasions, and ring up to object to a story, but if you held your ground he'd generally back you, and mutter 'over-ruled again'.
Fitz: At Mike Willesee 's funeral you told a great story of the A Current Affair host standing his ground against Packer?
Meakin: Yes, we ran a promo for a story which covered the infamous 'Goanna' allegations about Packer being involved in organised crime – for which he was subsequently completely exonerated – but straight after the promo went to air, we got a furious phone call from his legal adviser – one Malcolm Turnbull – threatening to sack everyone if the story went ahead. So I advised Mr Willesee that we'd had this call, and what Kerry and Malcolm were threatening. And Willesee said, 'Tell Kerry, if he doesn't like the story, he can sue himself'. We ran the story.
Fitz: All right, well back to the present day, and this week has seen major news shows The Project, which you were heavily involved with, and the ABC's Q&A bite the dust. As a serious question, and you're better qualified than anybody to answer, what is going on?
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Meakin: No show – or very few shows – last forever. I mean, Four Corners and 60 Minutes have been around forever, and probably will be around forever, but everything else seems to have a shelf life, and that's been the case since, since [Christ] played fullback for Jerusalem. Television programs are like restaurants. For a long while, you can't get in because there's such a waiting list, and then all of a sudden people are over it, and no one comes there any more. So you can't necessarily read too much into it.
Fitz: Sure. But as one who loved Q&A, and whose wife was on The Project, I've followed it closely. We can all see that the ratings of these shows have fallen off a cliff in the last few years. Why?
Meakin: Because audiences for most TV shows have fallen off a cliff. People aren't into free-to-air television the way they used to be.
Fitz: This is my point. You and I have children who have certainly heard of free-to-air television but never liked the sound of it, and there's now whole swaths of the population that simply don't watch FTA television at all. Is that what we are witnessing? Are these major programs being axed the death-throes of free-to-air television?
Meakin: That's overstating it. But you know, times are certainly very tough, and really tough for the people who've lost their jobs. And I particularly feel for those I worked with at The Project because they're friends, and in some cases they're finer professionals than many I've worked with at some of the most high-flying programs in Australian TV history.
Fitz: Hopefully, most of them will find their way to the new investigative show Ten has announced, 10 News +. Do you have confidence that it will work?
Meakin: Well, I applaud them for trying. I think whether it works or not is going to depend on the level it's resourced and, as you know, Channel 10 does not have the reputation of throwing money around. They're not in a position to throw money around. But if it's well resourced, fine. As for the investigative angle, that can be very costly ...
Fitz: [ Wryly. ] I've heard it said.
Meakin: But it can be very powerful. I know that some people have been arguing that The Project 's reputation was damaged by the Brittany Higgins interview. Well, I reckon if they – and we – had done more investigative news stories like that, the program would still be there. Against that, while I love investigative journalism, it's hard to raise a business argument for it when it can cost so much money to pursue – and then defend.
Fitz: Way back when I got to know you in the early '90s at the Nine Network, the dictum for news was, 'If it bleeds, it leads'. These days, particularly with radio and TV, it seems to me to be, 'If it hates, it rates'.
Meakin: I don't know about that. That's not a saying I've ever espoused.
Fitz: I know you never did! I just invented it, to summate a lot of what seems to rate well in this age of social media, and for stuff to go viral, which seems to be the constant end game.
Meakin: Oh well, they used to say 'Divide the nation and multiply the ratings', so there's nothing new under the sun, and yes, there are certainly a lot of people here generating conflict, but that's not just in the radio studio or on television.
I mean, a lot of it is coming from places like the White House, where from Trump and Musk just about everything that comes out of their mouth is mendacious. And instead of some of the media doing its job to call out the lies, they put them to air unchallenged, which sees a lot of people believing them. And then when the media does tell the truth, Trump calls them all 'fake news', whereupon his followers then hate the media – and instead go to the sources which can reinforce their prejudice.
Fitz: That is indeed the age we're in. What can the serious media do about it?
Meakin: At the risk of sounding like an old fart, we of the media have got to keep jealously guarding what little reputation we have left, and deliver the news straight, unbiased and as honestly as we possibly can – and hope that the people will come back, as that is precisely what is needed now, and everyone is starting to recognise it.
Fitz: Which brings us to the demise of Q&A, which seemed to me to be a textbook example of how you take a seriously successful show and drive it into the ground, changing formats, changing timeslots, changing hosts every year or two – or even less – and playing it safe with too-often dull guests. Do you agree?
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Meakin: I found it 'worthy'. And when you call a program worthy, it's both a compliment and an insult – but the bottom line is that not enough people found it worthy in a good way. But the first thing to say is the show's been around for 18 years and has had a bloody good innings. But a lot of questions, in my view, sounded very stilted and rehearsed. When it truly worked, there were people in authority answering tough questions. That's not happening any more. And I note here, the ABC's explanation for it being cancelled: 'It's time to rethink how audiences want to interact and to evolve how we can engage with the public, to include as many Australians as possible in national conversations.' Well, there's a bureaucratic gob-full if ever I heard one!
Fitz: What would Kerry Packer do, if he had control of programs like The Project and Q&A in this situation?
Meakin: Kerry, God bless him, wasn't blessed with patience. And he didn't like being beaten. So I suspect he would have sacked an executive producer or two and demanded changes to the format before pulling the pin. Fixing a failing program isn't easy. The causes are inevitably a matter of debate. The solutions can be cruel and may not work. So it's often easier to wield the axe.
Fitz: When Q&A debuted in 2008 it was one of the first to harness Twitter, so the audience could make commentary on it in real time, building a live buzz and with it an audience that would start to tune in. These days, social media seems to be having the opposite effect?
Meakin: Well, I think social media has made it very hard for people to be opinionated on television. And what's the point of making a stand or expressing an opinion honestly held when, within seconds, half the population is going to want to decapitate you?
Fitz: You do what I do. You don't read 99.9 per cent of it, and you pity the poor bastards with such tiny lives that they have nothing better to do with their time than emit anonymous toxic farts in the Twitter wind.
Meakin: That's what Waleed did – declined to read any social media at all – and right now, he doesn't seem to have a gig. But he is too good not to have one soon. It will go on. There will always be a need for media people like him. They just need the right format and platform.
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