How Lionel Boyce and Ayo Edebiri Wrote ‘The Bear' Season 4's Standout Episode

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Lionel Boyce is almost surprisingly soft-spoken and mild-mannered, just like the quietly dedicated pastry chef he plays on The Bear. But Boyce swears he and Marcus Brooks are not that similar. With four seasons of playing the character under his belt — complete with a 2024 Emmy nomination for Outstanding Supporting Actor — he's quick to parse the nuances of where they overlap.
'Marcus is much more of a perfectionist than me,' Boyce clarifies over Zoom from Los Angeles. 'But being reliable and having people's backs is something we share.'
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So when Boyce's co-star Ayo Edebiri, who plays Chef Sydney in the series, called him up one night with an idea for a new episode, Boyce stayed on the call, talking through his opinions, instincts, and honest thoughts on her plans. After the two hung up, he got a text from Edebiri asking him to co-write the episode. 'I ultimately said yes, but I was reluctant,' Boyce says. 'It was a scary thing to me, because even though I've written with friends and done my own things, I've never written on a show that was already on. I was like, 'This is a ship that's working. And I don't need to insert myself.' That's all I could think about.' What sold him? That mutual spirit he shares with Marcus, the same one that's made his character a fan favorite — being the gentle but steadfast voice of support in people's corners.
The end result is the slow-moving yet captivating fourth episode of Season Four. Directed by Janicza Bravo (Zola), 'Worms' follows Sydney on a rare day off. Her hair isn't braided, she hasn't made a decision about whether to stay at The Bear or go work with chef Adam Shapiro on a new project, and reminder … her hair isn't braided. The long day ahead is only made longer when her braider and cousin Chantel (Danielle Deadwyler) runs out to buy more hair halfway through the process, leaving Sydney alone with her daughter TJ (Arion King) in a house empty of food.
The episode is a humble (in all the best ways) slice-of-life snapshot — specifically, of Black life in a part of Chicago rarely shown in the series, which is otherwise hyperfocused on the Berzatto family on the city's north side. There's the tender way Sydney and TJ guide each other, first through a recipe, and then through upcoming big decisions (whether to attend a sleepover for one, whether to change jobs for the other). There's code switching, strict Black parenting, and plenty of jokes about just how long it takes to install a full head of box braids, giving another rare glimpse into Sydney's life outside of the chaotic kitchen. But the genius of 'Worms' also lies in how deftly Boyce and Edebiri lay out some of the most treasured and joyous parts of Black community onscreen without explaining them to death. The Bear is a show about all of the different ways a group of strangers can become family. 'Worms' turns that same silliness, banter, and heartwarming energy radical, by placing the Black home in a place of soft reverence. Boyce chatted with Rolling Stone about his first experience co-writing an episode, the timeless (and time-intensive) process of a hair day, and how Marcus is going to handle that crazy season finale.
It's been almost two weeks since Season Four of premiered. How are you feeling? Like anything with creation, it's made in a bubble. You can have all these ideas before, but once it's out in the world, your ideas no longer matter, and it takes on a life of its own. It's organic. So it's cool seeing the things that people respond to, what's sticking out. It always goes back to the romantic things people put on the show. It's always expected, but I feel like this year it came back even stronger than it was in Season One. So I thought that was funny.
Are you thinking of the loud and proud fans who think that Carmy and Syd should be in a romantic relationship, or the people who think Marcus and Chef Luca could give it a go? Oh, all of that. People will make fan edits. It's just funny how people have made up their minds, like, 'This is what should be.'
Romance aside, this is the first season where you've co-written an episode. What made you interested in contributing in that way? I wanted to support Ayo, because I truly loved the idea and where it was going. It just seemed like so much fun. But it also just seemed like a different kind of challenge. That was enough of a reason for me to [try] my hand at it, because I hadn't done it before. I really enjoyed writing it with Ayo. It's just cool when you get to experience that with a friend. It's like playing tennis. Just back and forth and building on ideas — even the ones you discard, it's just functioning in a way that's so easy.
What do you think audiences get when they see this day off for Syd that they wouldn't see in the kitchen? It's the exhale. Seeing how it looks for her to be relaxed. I think that came in large part from Janicza, Ayo, Danielle, and Arion. Getting everyone on board really brought it to life. [Chantel and TJ are] these pillars who have known Syd in such a different way than Carmy or anyone in the kitchen's known her. When anyone gets around family, they just exhale. And they slowly return to who you knew them as before they left home.
Janicza Bravo has such a strong directorial voice. What was it like working with her for such a personal episode? We just wrote a road map. Once we finished the script, it was just a direction to point us in. I was like, 'You guys take this and continue to build from there.' [Bravo] brought so much warmth and color. Her decisions, her instincts, whether it was references or just the ideas with casting — it was always so graceful. It's one of her superpowers. She adds this layer of grace to anything.
Whether you're playing Marcus or we're seeing you at a premiere, your aesthetic is pretty consistent, mostly sharp lineups and hats. But tell me a bit about how your own relationship with your hair intersected with what people saw onscreen. I have an aunt who's a beautician. She's owned beauty shops since I was a kid. So I think that's just a person you understand is a pillar in the community. Barbershops, beauty salons, they're third spaces. You see different people you know at different points of your life in there. The power of a haircut makes you feel invincible. You go in feeling on the fritz, and then you come out, you're like, 'Yeah, I can do anything. I can tackle this world.'
Chantel, Syd's braider, is both her hairstylist and her actual family. What was it like to have Danielle Deadwyler bring her to life? The character [Chantel] is a close family member to Syd. You couldn't feel any more comfortable than being around this person. That was one of my favorite things that I think Danielle brought to it, where you saw this dynamic organically form. You see her busting Syd's balls a little bit, for fun. You could see that dynamic, like they're eight years old in the backyard, running around.
I was personally grateful that Danielle was down to come on board and play such a funny character and show this other side that we don't see that often from the characters that she plays. She's just such a great actress. I was hanging out on set when they were filming and just getting to see take after take of different things she's doing. I'm like, 'Wow, she's really just a jazz player.'
I also loved how time didn't seem to really exist in the episode, which I felt very keenly — mostly because I was braiding my hair while I was watching.We all know how long it is. I remember being a kid, like six years old, and I don't go to school that day because my mom got to get her hair braided. You get there at seven in the morning, and you're there all day at this person's house you don't know. You playing their son's Super Nintendo and like, 'What games they got?' Time and space don't exist. So if you've ever gone through the experience, you just know it takes a minute.
It wouldn't be if there weren't a cooking scene — and that sort of nostalgia continues when Syd shows TJ how to jazz up Hamburger Helper. What's your version of that instant-comfort nostalgia food?Low-key, Hamburger Helper. The beef stroganoff one, or the mac and cheese one. That's what I was living with. There's such a specific time where that ruled the world. Like, Nineties to early 2000s. And when you're really young, you get mad, like, 'Oh, we gotta eat this?' And then as you get older, it's like, 'No, I want that. That's what I'm looking for.'
When's the last time you had it? I haven't had it in years. Every once in a while I'll think about it, like, 'It'd be good to get it.' but I don't want to make it. It's, like, got to be made by my mom, because I know it's not gonna be the same. It's like boxed yellow cake. I love it, and I can make it all alone. But there's something she does to it. Or maybe it's just the fact that she makes it.
Is your dynamic with Ayo as co-stars different from your dynamic as co-writers? When we started doing this show, I was like, 'This is cool. I feel like we're on the same wavelength.' I feel that way about pretty much everyone who collaborates on the show, like the writers, the actors, even behind the cameras, it's such a tight-knit family. But with Ayo, we had a lot of friends in common. It's no different than Tyler [the Creator, Boyce's former bandmate in Odd Future] or any of my friends who I collaborate with. Having a professional community, you have friends that you want to work with and always just feel like, 'I respect and admire your work, and we don't even know we don't know each other.' So I think having that thing and you just also can be stupid together, it just made it so much more fun.
Do you think that friendship and connection changes the final product for the better? It's funny. With creative people, it's sensitive. A lot of their time is trying to feel something out before they jump in. So when you have a shorthand with someone you already feel comfortable with, you can just get right into it. It just becomes much more of a singular voice when you have that shorthand. Because it's like we speak the same language.
I love the mention of creativity, because one of the moments I found so pivotal in the season is in Episode Seven, when everyone crawls under the table at the wedding and goes around sharing their fears. Marcus says his fear is 'running out of creativity.' Is that something you found yourself relating to? That's a fear of mine. You've tapped the well and you're like, 'Is this it? Was this thing I did the last time I have it in me?' It's a fear of running out of passion. Where you feel like a hack or you're rehashing ideas or whatever. Fears are things you can't control. As long as you want to be open and let things in, you'll always have a well that doesn't run dry. But it is a fear. It's a fear of disconnection to me. 'Will I just close myself off to the world and let nothing else in?'
Well, if disconnection is the fear, and this episode is an example of you being connected with friends, with collaborators, what was most exciting or joyful about actually watching the finished product?As I watched it, I texted Ayo because I was so impressed with Arion. That was the thing, when we wrote it, Chris [Storer, creator and showrunner of The Bear] was like, 'Yeah, I love it, but you gotta find a great kid.' Jeanie Bacharach, who's the casting director, and everyone did such a good job at finding Arion. Because that relationship is a tentpole of this episode, and you'd see it unfold. Watching it, it felt lived-in, and it reminded me of my sister in ways.
I loved the moment when we get to the house and Syd's getting her hair done and Chantel is like, 'Where's the hair upstairs?' And Arion goes, 'There ain't none. Damn!' And it just holds on everyone's face. You don't have to explain it. Everyone understands and it's such a universal thing. I love that moment.
In this episode alone, you get Arion as the scene-stealing newcomer, and two standout voices with Deadwyler and Bravo. At this point, people know to expect starry cameos from . So for you, was there a favorite of the season? Jamie Lee Curtis. Even though she's already been in it and doesn't count as a new one, all of her scenes were incredible. And Rob Reiner. I didn't get to meet him, but watching his scenes with Ebraheim [Edwin Lee Gibson] was so cool. I loved seeing his arc this season.
The charts! Ebraheim was not fucking around. Yeah, he came in ready to handle business.
Being on a show all about food also means the joy of some pretty gorgeous prop foods and the pain of plenty of desserts that you can't eat because they're fake. But sometimes there's a sweet treat for you in return. What's the most delicious thing you had on set this season? It wasn't even made for shooting! I'd sent this video I'd found on Instagram of someone making a cinnamon focaccia to [The Bear culinary director] Courtney Storer. She's like, 'Someone else just actually sent me that. We got the kitchen here — let's make it.' That was delicious.
Marcus has also had a pretty incredible and skyrocketing arc through this most recent season, being named as one of 's best new chefs in America. What do you think it does for him emotionally at the end of the season to receive that recognition at the same time that his mentor, Carmy — the person who challenged him creatively — is planning on leaving? That's a good question. In that moment he wins, and he looks around, he's like, 'Yeah, winning the award is cool. But getting to share it with this group of people is the thing.' That's why I'm curious. I always say I'm a fan first of this show. So I have all of the same thoughts that other people do. Like, 'How does this affect things?' You build something out of pure passion, and then you step away from the thing you build — what happens? I want to see the scripts for Season Five, because I'm curious, too!
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