Women Who Travel Podcast: Hawa Hassan's Recipes from Somalia, Egypt, Lebanon, and More
You can listen to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify each week. Follow this link if you're listening on Apple News.
In Hawa Hassan's second cookbook, the chef and author explores the recipes and stories born out of displacement, and the sense of community and resilience that can be found through food. Lale chats with her about the travels and research behind the book, which took her to The Democratic Republic of Congo, Liberia, and Lebanon, among others, as well as how her own path from Somalia to the US informed her personal food journey.
Lale Arikoglu: Hi there, I'm Lale Arikoglu, and today I'm talking to chef and author Hawa Hassan about her groundbreaking book Setting a Place for Us.
Its subtitle explains its radical scope, recipes and stories of displacement, resilience, and community from eight countries impacted by war. Hawa and her family fled the Somalian Civil War. A few years later, she was sent to friends in America and was separated from her mother and siblings who moved to Oslo. The stories of the people she meets in her book often mirror that of her own life.
Hawa Hassan: I migrated to the U.S. in 1993, November of 1993. My mother and family never made it to America. Till today, my family has never been to America. I only have one little brother who's born in Norway that's come to New York, and he came in 2018 just as he was getting out of high school. But my family has lived in Somalia, Kenya, and then Oslo.
LA: Moving in 1993 means that you were very young when you moved.
HH: Yeah. The first two years of living in America, because I assumed my family was still coming and that was the game plan. I went as a part of a team of six people. At the time, it was my five siblings and my mom. So I was like, "Okay, the rest of my teammates are coming. They're just waiting for sponsorship to the U.S.," which never came because Black Hawk Down happened and the Clinton administration had shut it down at the time.
And in hindsight, I don't think there's a better place than Oslo that my family could have ended up in for so many different reasons. So for the first two years, I was still very much a Somali child. I was still trying to cook. I was still trying to clean with the people that I was living with because I wanted to be an active participant of the group that I was living with.
LA: What were you cooking?
HH: Well, there was an older person in the house, a woman. She did all the cooking, but I did all the cleaning and the chopping those first two years.
LA: You were sous chef?
HH: I was sous chef. I didn't know I was a little chef in the making, okay? But I had already been a sous chef with my mom and my brother, and so this was just a different version of it. But after those first two years passed and I realized no one was coming, honey, I was eating hot dogs, Doritos, pizza, gas station food was my survival tool.
LA: When you say survival tool, what do you mean?
HH: It was what fueled me. I would have me a little something in the morning before school and then after school I would walk right over to Mr. Henry's gas station. I would go right over there and he knew Hawa wants a hot link. Don't make Hawa's bread too thick, cut the crust off for her.
LA: Remind me where in the US you were.
HH: I grew up in Seattle, Washington.
LA: Was there a Somalian community there? Where you were aware of one?
HH: So when I arrived in Seattle, it wasn't only my arrival, it was the Cambodians, it was the Russians, it was the Vietnamese, the Eritreans, the Ethiopians, the Sudanese, and Somalis. My elementary school was so diverse. I've always had, whether it be the Somalis or others, there's always been a diversity around me just because of the time that I came to the U.S.
LA: Did your family that was in Oslo and your mother, did they have the same or...
HH: Yeah, well, kind of and not. When they migrated to Norway, they were some of the very first immigrants, and so there wasn't a huge Somali population. And I don't know why this happens. When migration happens, oftentimes governments place you in the middle of the center, in the city center, and so my family grew up in an area called Gronland, which is downtown Oslo. But downtown Oslo, if you just walk, it's full of Somalis now. Yeah, so they now have a very healthy community.
LA: It sounds like for your family, Oslo is a haven of sorts, or at least feels like home.
HH: Totally. Yeah, totally. I mean, my siblings, they're Norwegian kids. They fight in Norwegian. They have grown up there. Some of them were born there. They've been schooled there. Some of them are married to Norwegians.
The last time I was in Somalia was 1991. My father still lives there, and my older brother goes every year. My little sister goes. She's taking her kids to go see him. But there were a few of us that hadn't seen him since I left Kenya, and so I took everybody to Turkey, to Istanbul because it was the only place that my father can get, we can get him to get a visa.
LA: Which is interesting because there are other people I know who have family. I'm thinking of a friend whose family in Iran and Istanbul is the meetings point.
HH: Oh.
LA: And I think that happens for a lot of diaspora communities-
HH: Totally.
LA: ... which are all trying to come together in a place, and Istanbul seems to be that city.
HH: Absolutely. I mean, we knew it would be easy to apply at the embassy in Somalia. It would be familiar for my dad because people speak Arabic, he's Muslim. So all of us went and we had a family reunion for 18 days. It was really nice.
LA: Back in 2020, I sat down with Hawa to chat about her first book, In Bibi's Kitchen, which won the James Beard International Cookbook Award. Then, she shared food traditions of African countries bordering the Indian Ocean. But this book also covers Asia and Central America. The eight countries Hawa talks about are usually featured in the media as being in a state of disarray or in crisis. But here she focuses on community spirit and the power of food to bring people together.
HH: I visited the Democratic Republic of Congo, El Salvador, Lebanon, and Liberia. And then the other four countries that I did intense research and hired other people to help research were Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and Egypt.
LA: You list off those countries, and at first listen, you might think that's quite like a sort of disparate list of places. But there's a through line and a thread that stitches them all together and is why you chose them. What is that thread?
HH: Yeah, so I wanted to examine countries that there was conflict and instability. There was refugee and migration, humanitarian crisis, and then historical and cultural significance. Some of these countries are the oldest civilization on earth. I wanted to talk about that because oftentimes when we hear about these places, even though the through line of this book is a part of my story, which is civil unrest, and I wanted to examine that for my own reasons and also for the purpose of saying, "Hey, here's another way to look at these people." And so this book, there's no sad stories in it, and I say that about my own life. I have no sad stories to tell.
LA: And that there isn't this sort of two-dimensional view of what a person from X country is like or if they choose to leave, what their life as a displaced person could be.
HH: Correct. Because the desires are the same no matter where we are. We're a lot more alike than different.
LA: Could you tell me a little bit more about how you were weaving your own personal story into the book, or at least how it was driving the book?
HH: Yeah, so originally when I started thinking about food in 2014, I was so curious about my own personal story and I wanted to confront so much the otherness of my own life. When you've been separated from your family or from your homeland, there's a desire to return always in hopes of finding yourself or finding out new information, like, "I want to discover more of who I am," and that's what this book was for me. That's what all my work is. In Bibi's Kitchen was a selfish project. I wanted to preserve those stories. I wanted to make Africa accessible. I wanted to talk about the Indian Ocean from an African's perspective. This book is the same. I want to talk about displacement from a displaced person's perspective. It's not all sad and gloom. It's not doom and gloom.
LA: When you were choosing these countries, did you have some sort of criteria that you were looking for, or was it literally just kind of looking at a big old map and thinking, "These are the places that fascinate me."? Or were there kind of certain political or cultural moments or touchstones that you were keeping an eye out for?
HH: The main things that I wanted to examine were historical and cultural significance, migration, conflict, and I also wanted to examine it from the perspective of... Somalia has been in constant conflict almost for as long as I've been born. And some of the countries in this book also have been in prolonged conflict. And some of them have been in conflict and are kind of out of it now, but they're still residue of some of those old feelings. And so I just wanted to see the similarities of the places and I wanted to tell a different story about what it meant to be from those places.
Displacement can also come at the cost of climate change. And so even though in this book I talk about 177 million people across the world, the people that you speak to on the ground do often talk about the lack of rain or too much rain. I'm no climate expert, but the shifting of crop season and things like that, because ultimately you fill it across the board. And when there's conflict within a country's borders, movement of food isn't the same as it is in our world. I think things change and people are much more mindful and they're not as wasteful as we are here. And I hope that also comes across in the book.
LA: There are four countries that you visit physically in the book. Tell me a little bit kind of about what you were searching for in each one.
HH: Yeah. So El Salvador, I went to in February 2020, right before the world shut down. I went with my photographer and I'd already had my friends in El Salvador, so it was simple. And El Salvadorians are such kind people, loving people, welcoming people, and so it's a easy place to feel at home. And I was on the beach the whole time, and so it was lovely.
LA: A challenging but empowering visit to Kinshasa coming up.
I'm here with Hawa Hassan on Women Who Travel.
HH: The next place I went to was the Democratic Republic of Congo. I went to Kinshasa. And I say that in the intro to Kinshasa, or going there, the travel for it was chaotic, and it feels like an ongoing shell game where at every turn you're meeting a cast of new hustlers and you are the target. So Congo taught me so much, and to my Congolese brothers and sisters, I take my hat off to you because I just cannot. They are such resilient people, and they dance and they dress so incredibly and they're so joyful, but they don't suffer any fools.
LA: Often when I am reporting for Condé Nast Traveler and I sort of arrive in a place, sometimes I'll connect with it right away and be like, "I gel with this place. I get it." I know how to find my way around it, or it's like something just clicks. And then there are others that are a little harder to understand at first and you have to work a little harder to make sense of it.
HH: I didn't get Kinshasa. I didn't understand the movement of the American dollar before I got there, at the speed in which it moves, I should say.
LA: Wait, explain that a little bit more.
HH: So they basically, well, at least with me and my experience, everything was done in U.S. dollars. So something that could cost you a cab ride that should be $30 would be $200.
LA: Wow.
HH: And it was like, "There's no question about it, pay the 200 or get out." So there was a lot of things I didn't understand in Kinsasha, but I spoke to somebody else who'd gone there and she was like, "Oh, it's probably because you look different." But she's right. You're talking about a country that right now is on the brink of breaking because of their next door neighbors in Rwanda. And so I am East African. I do look Rwandese. And so there was some of that flare up when I was there. And some of those stories I won't go into because they don't serve me or the people that I met, but there was that unspoken tension and you had to be aware and move accordingly.
LA: I want to hear a bit more about this trip because so far we've talked about how it was... It does sound like it was challenging and probably quite exhausting, but clearly it was a success because you have recipes and stories in the book.
HH: Yeah.
LA: What were some of the outstanding moments of being...
HH: Oh, man. I met a young woman named Natalia that owned a restaurant called Bantu. She had been a student in Cape Town and had been craving home and returned home to build from the ground up. She was a successful entrepreneur. Her restaurant was so stunning. I met a woman named Lina and her husband.
LA: Wait, can you describe the restaurant to me a little bit?
HH: Yeah. It actually just looks like a cafe out of Soho, but it had African baskets that she had weaved across the walls and it had all these plants. And Natalia was beautiful and young and just bright and she wanted to be a part of the rebuilding of the Democratic Republic of Congo. And she and a lot of young people like herself had become entrepreneurs during COVID, which was so interesting to learn.
I also met another woman named Emily, who was the beignet lady. She had been living in Belgium and returned home also. And she started online and it caught wildfire and everybody goes to her home to get their beignets. And she was contemplating about opening up a brick and mortar. And so there was so much hope.
LA: Can you describe to me just kind of what it's like to walk around there a little bit? Sights, sounds, just kind of like the vibe just to kind of bring a picture into people's heads.
HH: Lots of moving cars, bustling markets, lots of motorcycles, bunch of people talking over one another. I mean, imagine a busy market and that being the streets. Lots of fresh fruits and vegetables.
LA: What kind of fruit?
HH: Lots of mangoes and oranges and papayas and watermelons and things like that. When I went, it was in June, so there were a lot of fruits more than there was anything. A lot of fruit stands.
LA: Is there a dish from there that you now cook regularly or that you think of regularly?
HH: Yeah, there's a skewered goat dish that you can actually buy on the street and is very popular in the DRC. But that's like a quick snack, a quick delicious meal. It's incredibly well-seasoned. And that was something that I really enjoyed while we were there.
LA: And you just grab and go down the street with some goat on your skewer.
HH: With a newspaper. Yeah.
LA: Delicious.
HH: And then the next place we went to was Morovia, the capital of Liberia. And I'd known some friends there. So Liberia felt like a reprieve. It felt like joy. It felt like a vacation. Morovia can almost feel like a beach town because it's on the ocean. I had sushi every night. I was staying in an incredible hotel where everybody was just so welcoming.
And then we went to Lebanon after that. We went to Beirut and then went all over Lebanon for 10 days. And again, same thing in Beirut, just kindness and open doors and so much food and conversation and joy. I feel very grateful because every place offered a new way of seeing things.
LA: After the break, what these very different food traditions have in common.
You're back with women Who Travel.
Okay, moving on, we've got to talk about the recipes.
HH: Okay.
LA: I think of there's so many commonalities between different recipes or foods around the world. What were some of the kind of recurring things that you found in these recipes that are from all these different places with different stories?
HH: One thing that I saw everywhere is that people's usage of dates.
LA: Oh.
HH: I thought that was really nice. Some people were drinking date tea, some people were making date soup, some people were making date cookies. There's a date cookie recipe in the book. I also loved people's capacity to eat sweet and savory together, which for me, I do because we're Somalis.
LA: Did you walk away from that thinking, "I want to bring some of this back into my own cooking in my own life." Or did it feel like when you come back from vacation and you're like, "I'm going to change everything," and then you get back and it's just immediately everything's the same?
HH: Yeah, I did. I mean, as soon as I was done with the book, I made a lot of stews, which was, I mean, my husband once said to me, he's like, "What is it with you and these stews?"
LA: And you're like, "I'm slowing down."
HH: Yeah. He didn't understand that. God bless his heart. But I did come back and I was cooking a lot slower.
LA: Were there any foods that you tried that you were surprised that they reminded you of Somali food? I think sometimes it's like you can have a cuisine that seems so different to your own, and then you suddenly are like, "That flavor or that method of preparation reminds me of this dish and I would've never have expected it."
HH: Oh, totally. A lot of the food. There's a seven spice in both the Iraq and the Lebanon chapter. That spice is very similar to Hawaij, which is a Somali spice, which is the bedrock of most of our cooking. And so that centered me home often. And then the other thing was is that in a lot of these countries, people have fruit on the side with all their food. And in Somalia, that's something that we do. Fruit is a part of your meal. And so that always made me feel like I was at my mom's table.
LA: You started this book five years ago, but does it feel even more timely than when you started it?
HH: Yeah. I mean, I think just like In Bibi's Kitchen. In Bibi's Kitchen, I started it because I was looking for community and I was looking for those stories. And then it came out in COVID when everybody was at home and thinking about community and how to sustain it and how to make it and how to be better at it. And we're in a different phase now, but we're still trying to answer questions. How do I be a human in the world today? How do I be kinder to more people? How do I talk about USAID if I don't know enough about who USAID serves? And I hope these are questions people are asking themselves. Don't be distracted by the splashy headlines. Pay attention to the details. Who is USAID serving? What diet are people in Somalia eating during drought season, effectively climate refugees very soon?
LA: Well, and I was going to say, what can we learn from that level of resourcefulness?
HH: Yep. Because guess what? We're not immune to it. I hope that this book is a gateway into answering some questions, but I hope it's a pamphlet that allows people to go on a deeper search for themselves.
LA: I'm going to ask you the impossible question, which is if there's one meal that you could take from this book and make over and over again?
HH: Yeah. There's actually, and we both love it at home, and it's so simple. There's this beef and rice and pepper, stuffed pepper recipe in the book that is so delicious and so simple. It's just onions, beef, parsley, and uncooked rice all together. And then you make everything on top of the stove, and then you bake it for a while. You bake it for I think 25 minutes or 28 minutes. And it's so delicious. And I make it all the time and it's so healthy. So that's boring to say, but that's what I would make all the time because it's not time-consuming and I love it.
LA: And my mouth is watering just hearing about it.
HH: Oh, good.
LA: If there's kind of a takeaway you want people to have when they close this book and they put it back on their kitchen shelves or they pull it down and they're in search of something, what is it?
HH: That single-origin stories are not true and that people in the world at large are all living differently, but we're innately very similar.
LA: Why don't we talk about... The one thing we haven't talked about that much is you mentioned your photographer, so I'm going to just get you to say something about that.
HH: Yeah.
LA: I'm flipping through the book right now, and there's so many beautiful stories and recipes, but also the imagery is gorgeous, from the food and the people and the kind of scenery from these places. What was the kind of vision between you and your photographer as to how to capture these places?
HH: I wanted to work with actually a dear friend, Riley Dingler, who is a college mate of my husband. They met at Boulder in Colorado. And Riley is a photographer and a videographer, but for commercial businesses. And I think one of the things about my vision was, "Let's shoot this in the most beautiful light to showcase the people, the food, and the place." He's blonde hair, blue-eyed and like 6'2". So he was not blending in most places. But his spirit did, and people loved him everywhere we went and people were excited to meet him. But he got the most incredible shots because you didn't even know he was there. Just same as me, I was enthralled in the interviews and in the conversations, and there weren't phones and there weren't a lot of distractions, and Riley was similar to that. His energy was of that. And that comes across in the book. Yeah, that photo actually with me and Emily.
LA: Tell me which photo we're looking at and describe it a little bit.
HH: You're looking at a photo of Emily. I think she's telling me about the herbs that she's growing in her garden. This is the beignet lady that I was telling you about. We're sitting in her courtyard and I'm facing her, and she is speaking with her hands and telling me about what she's growing in this season.
LA: You're deep in conversation in this photo.
HH: Totally.
LA: And then there is a beautiful picture-
HH: Of her beignets.
LA: ... of her beignets.
HH: Those are beignets that she made for us. So Riley just took a photo of them.
LA: And also, because they're on some sort of blue table, where were you eating them?
HH: In her courtyard. We were just picking them up and eating them in her courtyard.
LA: Freshly baked. Amazing.
HH: Yeah.
LA: And I think that is a lovely note to end on.
HH: Thank you so much.
LA: Thank you for listening to Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Arikoglu and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our engineer is Pran Bandi. And special thanks to Jake Lummus for engineering support. Our show is mixed by Amar Lal at Macro Sound. Jude Kampfner is our producer, Stephanie Kariuki, our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is head of Condé Nast Global Audio.
Originally Appeared on Condé Nast Traveler
The Latest Travel News and Advice
Want to be the first to know? Sign up to our newsletters for travel inspiration and tips
Stop Counting the Countries You Visit
How Safe Is Flying Today? 5 Things Experts Want Travelers to Know
The Best Places to See the Northern Lights Worldwide
Hashtags
Try Our AI Features
Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:
Comments
No comments yet...
Related Articles
Condé Nast Traveler
5 days ago
- Condé Nast Traveler
Women Who Travel Podcast: Author Freya Bromley Talks Wild Swimming, Cornwall, and Puffin Encounters
You can listen to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify each week. Follow this link if you're listening on Apple News. Author and wild swimmer Freya Bromley returns to tell Lale why the restorative power of nature still holds true for her, the joy and community she has found at a women's swimming retreat in Cornwall, and her favorite—and little known—island for escaping to each summer. Plus, she extolls the virtues of puffin sightings. Lale Arikoglu: Hi, there. I'm Lale Arikoglu. Today on Women Who Travel, I'm talking to Freya Bromley, a past guest and CNT contributor. I had such a good time talking to her a few years ago about a year-long experience cold swimming across the UK, which sounds not quite for the faint of heart. I was so enamored by the idea that we've asked her back for an update on wild swimming and where it's taken her and some of her recent adventures as well as the subject of a new book she's working on. Freya, so good to see you. How have you been? Freya Bromley: I've been well, thank you. It's nice to reflect on that chat and all the best swims I've had since then, but you've got to tell me about your best swim since that time. LA: Oh my God, what have been my best swims? Actually, you know what? I thought of you because I did somewhat of a wild swim about a month ago in Peru, in the highest altitude lake in the world. It's winter there because it's Southern Hemisphere, and I did a cold plunge and jumped into the lake and then ran to a hot tub pretty quickly. It was quite a luxurious version of wild swimming, but it did feel beautiful and invigorating and the landscape was pretty spectacular. I'd say that might be my most memorable swim. Then I've been lucky enough to do lots of good travels that have taken me into some beautiful waters. Most recently I was in Sicily, which I feel like the Mediterranean has all those incredible rocks to jump off. I don't know. I love water. I love being in water. I think being a city kid in London, I didn't get that for a long time. Now I jump at the chance, but what have your swims been? You would've had a lot more than me.
Forbes
5 days ago
- Forbes
Move To Italy From The USA: 3 Affordable Retirement Spots
Retirement in Italy can be more affordable and easier than you might think—the fantasy of la dolce vita can be made a reality... getty Italy is one of the most well-known and popular destinations in the world, both for tourists and expats alike. And it's easier to move to Italy from the USA than you might think... With thousands of years of history to explore, a warm and welcoming culture, great food and wine, and the beauty of a diverse country with beaches, mountains, countryside, and cosmopolitan cities, it's no surprise that this little country attracts so many foreigners. If you've always dreamed of la dolce vita , but never thought you could afford it, I have good news. There are corners of Italy that are affordable and accessible, even to the average retiree. Here are my top 3 picks… 1. Bologna—Italy's Culturally Vibrant Culinary Capital A surprising amount of people know nothing about Bologna, Italy, beyond the food it's so famous for: spaghetti Bolognese… (Ironically, that dish doesn't even exist here.) Why Retire Here? Bologna is Italy's culinary capital. From homemade pasta and delicately folded tortellini, to fresh cheese, organic produce, and excellent local wine, the food and drink are reasons enough to come to this amazing city. But it's also much more: Domestically, it's known as ' La Rossa ' (the red) for its iconic, terracotta-hued skyline… as well as its left-leaning political views. The city is chock-full of history, with one of the biggest, best-preserved historic centers in the country. With its many towers, churches, and porticos, it's architecturally stunning. And it's home to the University of Bologna—the oldest university in Europe (some say in the world). Bologna is also a major cultural center. With opera and orchestra performances year-round… jazz and live music emanating from bars and pubs… open-air concerts with music of multiple origins hosted seasonally. It's no surprise that it's designated a UNESCO City of Music. Where Is It? Located in Northern Italy, just about halfway between Florence and Venice, Bologna is just about in the center of the top portion of 'the boot.' As the capital of the Emilia-Romagna region, Bologna is one of Italy's wealthiest cities, with a fast-growing economy. It's also a transport hub, with train lines connecting it to cities around the country, allowing for easy exploration of the country and beyond. The easiest way to reach Bologna from the U.S. is to fly into an international hub (the closest are Rome or Milan) and connect to the local airport, which would take an hour or less, depending on the connection. High-speed trains from Rome or Milan also make it an easy stop if you'd like to enjoy a scenic rail journey into the heart of Emilia-Romagna. Who Should Retire Here? All of this combines to create an above-average quality of life for people who live here, both local and expat. If you've dreamt of retirement in Italy and want to be surrounded by vibrant culture, history, great people, and charming architecture, Bologna deserves your attention. Bologna is the third most expensive in Italy but that's because the quality of life is so high here. It has some of the best public health care available in the country, with the regional disparity in standards of care available tipping in Bologna's favor. The average person here earns about 2,800 euros a month, which gives you a benchmark for cost of living. That said, the city is also home to a huge student population, so there are bargains to had if you're willing to seek them out… 2. Abruzzo—Italy's Untouched Gem Between Mountains and Sea You've surely heard of the wonders of Tuscany… but, like so many other well-touted destinations, Tuscany has had its day; it's played out. Not to fear. Abruzzo has everything Tuscany offers and much more—at a fraction of the cost., and the region even offers the opportunity for owning a nice plot of land—enough to allow would-be farmers to become self-sufficient. Why Retire Here? The diversity of geography and resulting climates mean Abruzzo can offer nearly every form of outdoor recreation you can think of… with a wealth of national parks and preserves, multiple mountain peaks, and the Adriatic coast, this is one of the best regions for a variety of sports and activities. With its thousands of Gothic, Romanesque, Renaissance, and Baroque churches, castles, hermitages, palazzi , fortified towns and walled cities, abbeys, seminaries, and convents… Abruzzo is just as much a history buff's paradise as it is the outdoorsman's. Abruzzo itself isn't home to hordes of art, though there are a few notable museums, and fine art is never far, with Rome two hours away and Florence and Venice about four. Where Is It? This may be Italy's best kept secret, but that doesn't mean it's difficult to get to. Directly east from Rome, on the Adriatic coast, it's a quick two-hour drive from Rome's Fiumicino Airport, with hundreds of daily direct flights all over the world. It also has its own local airport with direct flights, low-cost throughout Europe. The bus services are reliable, comfortable, and affordable, offering you an easy way to explore your new country—and even venture beyond its borders. The local train station is noted as one of the best in Europe. And you're just about four hours' drive from Florence, a bit under five to Venice or Milan, and three to Naples. You can even take a ship from Pescara port to Split or Hvar in Croatia. Who Should Retire Here? With the incredible variety of environments and things to do… it would take a special kind of person to be bored in Abruzzo. You can be sure that Abruzzo represents the 'real Italy,' this is a traditional, rural region offering a slow-paced, low-key pace of living—perfect for retirement or those looking for a peaceful way of life. Aside from Pescara or Chieti, the towns and villages here offer small- town living and neighborly values that are hard to find these days. Above all, Abruzzo offers a chance to step back into the past and live a simpler, tranquil life—a lifestyle that you might have been able to enjoy in 1950s America… but with lots more wine and pasta! 3. Sicily—A Sun-Soaked Crossroads Of Ancient Worlds A crossroads in the Mediterranean, at once European, African, and neither, the island at the tip of the boot of Italy holds some of the most magnificent ruins of the ancient world. The island's motto is more true than perhaps it even realizes: Sicily is not Italy. Why Retire Here? Sicily offers a rare combination of affordability, beauty, and culture that's hard to match anywhere in the Mediterranean. The cost of living is lower than in most of Europe, from real estate to produce. Add to that a sun-drenched climate, where summers linger and winters are mild, and you've got a recipe for year-round enjoyment. The island's rich heritage is written in its streets—Greek temples, Roman amphitheaters, Arab courtyards, Norman cathedrals—each telling the story of the many civilizations that have called Sicily home. That history is matched only by the food: fresh seafood, seasonal produce, and local wines like Nero d'Avola are part of daily life, often at a fraction of the price you'd expect. From volcanic slopes to pristine beaches, Sicily's landscapes are as varied as they are breathtaking, making it an endlessly rewarding place to put down roots in retirement. Where Is It? Sicily is the largest island in the Mediterranean, just off the 'toe' of Italy's boot. To get here, you'd fly into Rome or Milan and connect to one of the island's two main international airports: Palermo or Catania. Direct flights from Rome or Milan to Sicily take about an hour, and frequent service means you can be from your U.S. departure gate to a Sicilian beach in well under 24 hours. For a more scenic approach, ferries connect the island to mainland Italy, offering a relaxed way to arrive with your own car for extended exploration. The big downside of Sicily for most would be the fact that it's a little less easy to access than the other options on this list, with significantly worse infrastructure. Who Should Retire Here? As any Sicilian you engage in conversation will tell you first thing, is not Italy. The Italian influence is big, of course, but so, too, is that of the Greeks, for example. In the 6th and 5th centuries BC, a traveler would have noticed little difference between Athens and the Greek cities of Sicily. And the comparison is just as valid today. Athens is one poor, struggling town... as is Palermo, the capital of Sicily. The run-down feeling you might pick up on as you explore the island is felt just as much in its capital city… but this is the feeling that so many people love about Sicily and that tempts them into a retirement here. The pace of life here is as slow as it gets in Europe… the lifestyle is so laidback, it barely moves—and what better way to enjoy retirement on a Mediterranean Island? If you enjoy Italian and Greek cultures, want year-round sun and warmth, and are looking for a budget life in the Old World, Sicily could be for you. Accessing Italian Health Care The national health service (SSN, Servizio Sanitario Nazionale ) is organized under the Ministry of Health and administered on a regional basis. The public sector has improved greatly over the last decade. Foreigners with valid visas are entitled to the same public health care access and treatments as Italian citizens. To enroll, you'll need to submit: · A valid visa; · A certificate of residence or a declaration of regular abode; · Tax number, issued by the Ministry of Economy and Finances (Ufficio Locale dell'Agenzia d'elle Entrate); · A declaration stating you will inform the government of any variation in status. By enrolling in the national system you have access to: · The selection of a family physician and of a pediatrician for one's children; · General medical examinations in clinics and medical examinations with specialists; · Medical exams at home; · Hospitalization; · Vaccinations; · Blood exams, X-rays, ultrasound exams, etc.; · Prescriptions for medicines; · Certifications and medico-legal services; · Rehabilitation assistance, prostheses, etc. Move To Italy To move to Italy from the USA, you need to apply for a visa. To stay beyond 90 days, you have to apply for a residence visa ( visto per ragioni di dimora ) to enter Italy with intent of staying more than 90 days at an Italian consulate before leaving home. The elective residence visa is the option for anyone coming to live in Italy but not planning to work (those with self-sustaining income and assets, including retirees). Under this visa, you aren't allowed to be employed in Italy, though you can continue any remote work or be self-employed—you just have to support yourself without taking anything from the Italian economy. To qualify, you need to prove an income of €31,000 per year (€2,583 per month), or roughly $35,890 per year ($2,990 per month). It's easier than you might expect to move to Italy from the USA. Bologna, Abruzzo, and Sicily offer affordable living, rich culture, and stunning landscapes. With the right planning—covering visas, health care, and local life—you can settle in comfortably and enjoy la dolce vita , from historic streets to sun-soaked beaches. These regions make retiring in Italy a realistic, rewarding dream. Forbes Everything To Know About Retiring In Italy By Kathleen Peddicord Forbes Where You Can Live In Europe For $2,000 A Month—Or Less By Kathleen Peddicord Forbes 5 European Towns Where You Can Buy Property For Under $100,000 By Kathleen Peddicord Forbes Exploring Health Insurance Options Abroad: A Guide For Older Americans By Kathleen Peddicord
Yahoo
10-08-2025
- Yahoo
Pamela Anderson on Personal Style, Self-Acceptance, and Date Night
All products featured on Glamour are independently selected by Glamour editors. However, when you buy something through our retail links, Condé Nast may earn an affiliate commission. Marco Bahler Sitting in Copenhagen's grandest hotel, Pamela Anderson is every bit the down-to-earth movie star you'd expect: makeup-free, icy blonde, casually dressed in an oversized button-down shirt. Her only accessories are diamond studs and a matching pendant necklace. But I'm mostly struck by her openness and deep interest in our conversation—she really is the soft-spoken charmer we've gotten to know more over the past few years. (Case in point: When I walk into the room, she's just finished putting together a Pandora charm bracelet as a gift for her mother's birthday. 'I was having a little crafty moment over here,' she says.) She's in Denmark for Copenhagen Fashion Week as a guest of jewelry brand Pandora. Last night she hosted a celebratory dinner at an art museum; today she's chatting with me as part of her continued partnership with the brand. It's a particularly busy time for the Golden Globe–nominated actor and 2024 Glamour Woman of the Year, who just concluded a press tour for The Naked Gun reboot, finished a run in a Massachusetts production of the play Camino Real just days ago, and seemingly embarked on a new romance. Obviously, we have questions for Anderson—and she gamely answered them all, letting us in on her go-to jewelry, her Copenhagen recommendations, and one-on-one time with Liam Neeson. What's a cherished memory you have around jewelry? Well, I've just started my whole jewelry [journey] in this chapter of my life. It's funny because I look at my mom, who is bedazzled from head to toe. I was like, 'It's a bit much, Mom,' but now I find myself loading up on jewelry. This has been such a wonderful time, promoting these films, and to have the support of Pandora—they're supporting me as an artist too. I'm not just a simple ambassador. We're crossing into all parts of each other's lives. Last night when we had the dinner, the recipes were from my cookbook, and I helped design the tables, and I wrote the poem [printed on each guest's menu]. They seem to appreciate me, all aspects of me, so it's been fun. So this is my most treasured time with jewelry, because I never really had it growing up or when I was younger. Do you have a piece you find yourself wearing most often? I like little diamond studs. They go with everything—jeans and a T-shirt or, you know, in the garden. You're a style icon. How do you put an outfit together? I really wanted to have fun with The Naked Gun press tour; I wanted to think of it as a story. I usually style myself, but I worked with Bailey Moon and I said, 'Get a lot of really fun stuff and think about French films.' I wanted to have things be cinematic—and a little off, because I never quite nail it. It's just a little something that doesn't quite work, but it's trying. I'm never perfectly polished, even though I try to be. Something always goes wrong, which is, I think, part of my charm. I'm embracing that now. I love putting fun outfits together from head to toe. For this press tour I wanted to add color because I usually wear very easy and basic stuff. It was fun to put some hats on. I love hats, and this is the time to wear one. How would you describe your personal style? I'm such a visual person. The first thing I think about when I'm playing a role is the look and the style. Part of your work kind of seeps in. I find when you're preparing for a role, you bring in all this inspiration. You're trying to get close to the project. And then when you're in the middle of the movie or something you're doing—especially in the middle of this Tennessee Williams play I was just doing—you start morphing. It starts becoming your reality instead of something you're trying to get or understand. Even today, I said, 'I'm coming to Copenhagen. Palate cleanse. This is where I'm going to be very minimal again, and go back to my simple colors and everything.' And then I put [an outfit] together, and was wearing this polka-dot skirt and a big hat, and I was like, 'Okay, I'm still in the Tennessee Williams play.' I can't get away from it. Style is about what you're going through in your life and how you want to present yourself to the world. I'm not a real trend follower, and I'm a little rebellious. Wear what you want. Wear what you want. And jewelry is a good way to express yourself—makeup, no makeup, whatever you want to do. We say more with our presentation than we do with our words—it all kind of goes together. If you want to be in a good mood, wear something fun, put some jewelry on. It all helps. It accentuates your mood. It's not like you look into the future six months and go, 'I'm going to wear that, I'm going to wear that.' You just wake up in the morning and look in your closet and go in your jewelry box, and decide this is what I'm wearing today in spite of how I felt yesterday.' This is a new day. It's a clean slate. Do you have a go-to date-night outfit? Date night? My gosh, date night. I don't know. Trench coat, nothing underneath but Pandora. Approachable, fun. No, I'm kidding! [Laughs.] What was it like to film ? Every day was fun. It was wild. It was crazy. It was so much fun to make that film, and, you know, we had a good time. I haven't seen the final [cut] yet—I saw it with Liam [Neeson] in an empty theater, just him and I, for the first time. We were just looking at each other like, 'This is crazy.' I want to see it with a group of people. I'll sneak in the back somewhere. We had a lot of fun making it, and the snowman stuff was especially ridiculous and out-there. [Laughs.] And the scat singing. It's fond memories. Which aspects of your appearance do you appreciate more as you get older? Maybe not so much appearance—maybe just my mind. I feel more self-accepting and embracing of who I am and what I look like. We're going through a time when people are taking a lot of pictures of themselves, there's a lot of social media, but they don't really look like their social media. I've cracked the code: I actually look in the mirror like I do on social media. Then you don't have to get so depressed. Or [if] I see a bad picture of myself, I don't fret over anything like that anymore. Maybe it's accentuated or maybe it's not relatable because I've been in this business, but I think people can relate a little bit. They're always doing selfies and putting them on their [feeds], and then they're like, 'Oh, I don't look like that,' or 'I look bad right now,' when really you just look like you! I didn't plan on not wearing makeup as a political statement, but I'm glad it's resonating. I really just did it for me so I could—I had to—get off the crazy train. What's your favorite thing to do in Copenhagen? There's great food here, great vegan restaurants. I love Hart Bakery. Last time I was here, I got to see all these sourdough starters, which got me really excited because I'm a big sourdough baker. But, I mean, the architecture—it's a great walking city. I love all the furniture stores; I go in and wish I could buy everything. I love Copenhagen. I love the park. I was really looking forward to coming here because I knew that once I got here, I would have completed a lot—I kept on going, 'Copenhagen is my North Star. Once I get there, I'll have completed the play and the press tour for The Naked Gun, and I'll be in one piece. I made it.' What's your favorite Pandora piece you've ever worn? I like my charm bracelet because my sons made it for me, and that's why I thought it was kind of funny that I made one for my mom for her birthday, because it's personal. I love the diamonds too. The reason I love working with Pandora is that they're more accessible. More people can wear Pandora jewelry than a big, fancier, different kind of brand. Plus, it's lab-grown, which is the sustainable part of it. It makes me feel more confident wearing jewelry that has less of an impact on the environment. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. Originally Appeared on Glamour More icons Candice Bergen: 'I've Never Watched a Single Sex and the City Episode' The power of Audra McDonald If you ever meet Judy Blume, feel free to cry Whoopi Goldberg Really Doesn't Care
