Pat Chun, UW Athletics Director

Yahoo

02-04-2025

Follow 'Hit and Miss with Monique Ming Laven' and find other episodes on kiro7.com/HitandMiss
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Pat Chun transcript:
Growing up in Strongsville, Ohio, Pat Chun often felt on the outside—
An Asian-American boy always recognized as Asian – but seldom as American.
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Pat Chun: 'And Karate Kid comes out, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, your dad becomes Mr. Miyagi and everyone's waxing on, waxing off in front of you.'
But there's nothing more all American than sports.
'It's the one thing that regardless of what you look like, what you sound like, if you can play it, if you can talk it, it just connects you.'
And he is certainly connected.
Distinguished and distinctive in the world of athletics: the first Asian-American Athletics Director of a power conference – first at Washington State
Now at U-Dub
But it's come with challenges he never saw coming
It's the most pain that i've ever walked into
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And it's a success that his mother still can't quite appreciate.
'There were four outcomes for me coming out of the womb - doctor, lawyer, engineer, and failure. so I'm four.'
SUCCESS IS MESSY. AND THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.
I'M MONIQUE MING LAVEN.
AND THIS IS A PODCAST ABOUT REALLY SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE –
AND THEIR MISTAKES, SETBACKS, SCREWUPS –
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOU SMARTER AND STRONGER.
YOU HAVE TO KEEP TAKING YOUR BEST SHOT – AGAIN AND AGAIN --
AND IT'S GOING TO BE
'HIT AND MISS'
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When Pat Chun first became Athletics Director at Washington State in 2018 – then six years later at the University of Washington – there was one huge college sports fan I thought of: Earl Wong.
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He didn't go to school in Washington. He was a University of California Golden Bear, Class of 1940, and he was my grandfather.
Grandpa would've been rooting for Chun. He would've recognized the power of sports in Chun's life – and how it could be a bridge over racial divides.
He would have identified with the prejudice Chun faced—
how he laughs it off, while still being concerned about how it affects his family.
And the easy way he chuckles about it – not because it's funny, but because it's ridiculous. And sometimes laughter *is the best medicine.
But he also says the biggest mistakes in his life are his own. We may all recognize something of that in ourselves – if we're as honest as he is.
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Now, you Cougs out there – you may want to hate on him. You can't forgive him for leaving Washington State for U-Dub. (My friends Mary and Julie, I'm especially talking about you). I know, I know – anywhere but U-Dub. But let me know if hearing more about his experience changes anything for you.
Back when he and I talked about his 'betrayal' – he cited one big decision he made that left Wazzou in a much better place.
And that's since gotten blown up… You'll know what I'm talking about.
But back to when Pat Chun first started at Washington State.
2018.
He became the first – and only – Asian-American Athletic Director in a power conference—
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The Washington Post wrote an article about it…
And Grandpa would have saved it.
MML: 'the title was how rare is Pat Chun's path in college sports. You'd have to be an Asian American to understand this. Yeah. What does that mean?'
Pat Chun: 'That article is funny because I had already been an athletic director at a at Florida Atlantic University for five and a half years. And and my, my mom is, I would say, your, stereotypical Korean mother, who, who, who is a big part of her life is her church. And, once that article made it into, the ether of our church. It, she called me exuberant with pride. And I had to remind my mom, it's like, hey, you know, I've been doing this for five and a half years, but you're in the Washington Post now.'
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CHUN HAD ALREADY BEEN THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AT FLORIDA ATLANTIC FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS. DURING THAT TIME, FAU STUDENT-ATHLETES SET A SCHOOL RECORD FOR HIGHEST COMBINED GPA, RECEIVED THE LARGEST SINGLE DONATION IN SCHOOL HISTORY, AND THE FOOTBALL TEAM HAD RECORD SUCCESS. HIS SUCCESS WAS CLEAR.
BUT I GET IT.
WHILE GRANDPA WOULD HAVE ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT CHUN – ADMIRED HIM-- THAT ARTICLE WOULD'VE VALIDATED HIS SUCCESS TO RUBY WONG, MY GRANDMOTHER—
WHO HAD MORE THAN A TOUCH OF THE FAMED 'TIGER MOM' SPIRIT THAT RUNS THROUGH SO MANY ASIAN-AMERICAN MATERNAL FIGURES – A SPIRIT THAT BOTH MOTIVATES AND IRRITATES--
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AND IS ALSO THE LOVE LANGUAGE OF MANY IMMIGRANT PARENTS.
Pat Chun: I'm a, I'm a first gen, you know, my both my parents came from South Korea. You know, the older you get, you kind of have a better understanding of the sacrifices your parents make.
Later in life, you learn, you know, their American dream really was never meant for them. Like they they come to this country to find, a different, you know, a different future for their kids.
My parents came here are two tools, you know, you know, an unquestionable work ethic and a belief in education. And that is that has kind of been two centering things for me in my career. But, but beyond that, though, it was always meant for their kids to go accomplish something. And, you know, I'm fortunate to have parents that made that sacrifice. //
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Monique What was it like for you growing up in Ohio as a Korean-American?
Chun 80s was a different time. You know, I joke around with my daughters. They couldn't survive, just with just just how the world was. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just, you know, when you look different. You know, I grew up in, you know, essentially white, middle class, Catholic, you know, Cleveland, Ohio. You know, in the West Side suburbs, Bronzeville was a town I grew up in. But it was, you know, it was it was, in hindsight, you know, it was, you know, when you look different, when your parents talk different, you know, my parents still, you know, my my my dad passed away. My mom still has, you know, somewhat broken English even to this day, even though she's been in this country for over 50 years. You know, it's it's, it, you know, good, bad or indifferent, it it develops a toughness in you, you know, that you probably don't recognize until later in life. But also I would also put, like my parents were so focused on assimilating like they they believe in America, they believe in the American dream. And they also, you know, we didn't even speak Korean at home. They force they were they were so focused on learning English that we spoke English at home.
Monique They were willing to take the licks of some racism and stereotyping as kind of the the cost for entry for their children. Yeah. What was it like for you, though? Who? Who's going? You're an American kid. Yeah. And your parents and you, I'm sure, sometimes were seen as non-Americans. Yeah.
Chun for my generation, when your parents come here, you know, they actually know who they are. You know, so for them to continue with their customs and their food and their language, it's who they are, you know, and their work ethic. Like they weren't going to let whatever, whatever microaggressions or racism or, you know, bigotry they faced, it was never going to waver them from their goals. Different when you're a kid.
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Monique Yes.
Chun Because you don't know who you.
Monique Are, right?
Chun You don't know why you look different. You don't know why you're you know, you don't know why. You're the only kid on the street where there's rice always cooking at us, you know? So those are all the things as you grow up. You just have to, you know, you just. You go. I think I'll, you know, they're not no different than a lot of, you know, kids of immigrants. You go on this journey to try to figure out, you know, who you are and what you're you know, you know what your differences are, in life. And you know that that's that's, you know, probably always been in the back of my brain somewhere.
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IT SOUNDS FAMILIAR: THAT LIMBO.
NOT CASTING OFF YOUR FAMILY – BUT TRYING SHAKE OFF THE STEREOTYPES ATTACHED TO RACE.
MY MIDDLE NAME -- MING – HAS SEVERAL DIFFERENT MEANINGS OR VERSIONS, EACH WITH ITS OWN CHINESE CHARACTERS. GRANDPA EXPLAINED THAT TO ME AS HE DREW THE TWO THAT REPRESENT MY VERSION OF THE NAME. ONE IS THE CHARACTER FOR SUN, THE OTHER FOR MOON. TOGETHER THEY MEAN 'BRILLIANT.' I STILL HAVE THAT PIECE OF PAPER.
BUT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, THE NAME WAS MORE PROBLEMATIC.
IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LINKED TO OTHER ASIAN CARICATURES – LIKE IN SIXTEEN CANDLES
'WHAT'S HAPPENING HIT STUFF?'
– OR FULL METAL JACKET
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'ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME'
--OR KARATE KID
'WAX ON WAX OFF'
- A WHOLE SLOUGH OF STEREOTYPES.
SO EVEN THIS FIFTH GENERATION CHINESE-AMERICAN CAN RECOGNIZE THE AMBIVALENCE OF AN IMMIGRANT'S CHILD --
WHO WANTS TO BE ACCEPTED BUT NOT PIGEON-HOLED.
Monique I'll make a bit of a confession for you. To you, when I was growing up. So my full name is Monique Ming Laven. Okay, okay. I just started using it as an adult, though, as Monique Laven when I was growing up. And people would tell me all the time, oh, I didn't know you were Asian. Yeah. And so there was something in me that denied it a little bit. Yeah. I was aware when I was passing and would embrace that sometimes. Yeah. Did you have that same did you struggle the same way with your Korean identity versus an American identity?
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Chun Oh, absolutely. Like my you just made me think of it. My, my dad taught taekwondo. So that was like I tell, you know, when I introduce, when I, when I give the story of my upbringing, I tell my, you know, my, my parents are stereotypes. You know, my dad taught taekwondo. My mom still works in the grocery store in our hometown to this day. She's a cashier. She's a she is in Korea. She was a classically trained pianist.
Monique Wow.
Chun The highest levels. And gave that up, you know, to come to this country. She'd been the cashier. You know, your dad teaches taekwondo. All the all your friends in school know that he does. And Karate Kid comes out, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, your dad becomes Mr. Miyagi and everyone's waxing on, waxing off in front of you. Those are, you know, you know, and those are just, you know, when you look back, those are, those are those are very, very, impressionable parts of a young person's life, you know, because you're trying to because you should be proud of who you are, you know, and and you're, you know, essentially getting made fun of all the time. Now, the wonderful thing, though, in life is I get to see my daughters today that have, have an extraordinary amount of pride of what they're, you know, they're half Korean and, you know, make fun of me because they feel like I'm a sellout compared to them.
Because I don't I don't embrace my Korean heritage. They do. And they love the food. They love learning more about it. They want to learn more about, you know, my wife does a wonderful job of making sure that, they're well aware of, their heritage. I go back to my hometown now there's, you know, Korean fast food places around the corner. My mom lives like when I was a kid in the 80s, I would have, like, one that wouldn't have happened to. I would have been like. Like, no way I'm eating there, right? Yeah. We had to.
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Monique McDonald's. Yeah. Said, yeah.
Chun Now it's there. You know, now my girls love Korean food and they love talking about there's a pride in who they're at. And it's cool. Just so I think it's just the evolution of the world.
BUT BEFORE THAT EVOLUTION – LONG BEFORE HIS HOMETOWN HAD KOREAN RESTAURANTS--
THERE WAS A PATH FOR A YOUNG PAT CHUN TO FIND ACCEPTANCE.
THE OBVIOUS AVENUE FOR ANY BOY IN STRONGSVILLE, OHIO:
Pat Chun: like in northeast Ohio. Football like football is a part of your identity. So are part of Northeast Ohio's identity. So I grew up. I was just a kid that loved, you know, I loved Ohio State football. I love Cleveland Browns football, you love playing football.
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Probably that's what drew me to sports initially as a kid. Yeah, because it's a great connector. And it's a one thing that regardless of what what you look like, what you sound like, if you can play it, if you can talk it, it just connects you, with friends. And I think that's probably one of the biggest. You know, when I look back on my youth, you know, and I enjoyed sports, too, but, you know, it's probably one of the reasons why I gravitated to sports so much.
THAT GRAVITATIONAL PULL COULD ONLY REALLY LEAD TO ONE PLACE FOR A KID LIKE HIM:
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
IT WAS THE DOUBLE PULLEY THAT COULD LIFT UP THE EDUCATION HIS PARENTS SO VALUED WITH THE ATHLETIC TRADITION HIS FRIENDS REVERED.
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BUT THERE WERE BUMPS.
Chun I actually took Korean and Ohio State.
Mobique Did you?
Chun Really? I thought it was an easy. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I thought because we. We spoke it enough at home. I could just go in. And once you're in college, it's like it's full immersion. I was like, wow, this is, this is a huge mistake.
Monique You said that your parents were kind of stereotypical Korean, so I'm guessing they weren't full board, like, go into athletics then, Pat?
Pat Chun: But it was always, you know, it's the joke I always use. And this is really a reflection of my mom and dad is they had, you know, there were four outcomes for me as, as, you know, coming out of the womb doctor, lawyer, engineer or failure. So so you have four. I'm still four. Like I'm not. Yeah. At least I have a couple news stories or or the the women at my mom's church can read that. I've done something with my life, but I. If you were to go back to my youth. I checked the fourth box. Laughs yeah.
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Monique So how did you convince them? I mean, did you have to keep on trying to convince them until that article came out that I'm doing okay here? If anything, I think I was fortunate because my mom really focused on being your best. And that was really something that was more important to her. Now, trust me, she'd rather me go to Harvard, Yale and be a doctor or a lawyer. Right? She was. Yeah. But I think also I was when I reflect back, it was always more about being the best you're supposed to be.
HE GOT HIS MASTERS AT DUQUESNE (DO-CANE), THEN RETURNED HOME TO OSU TO START HIS CAREER. OVER 15 YEARS, HE DID JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING:
DEVELOPMENT, ENDOWMENT BUILDING, STRATEGIC PLANNING.
WHAT HE COULDN'T FULLY EXPLAIN TO HIS MOM— IS WHAT IT MEANT TO FIND YOUR HOME IN THE OSU ATHLETICS DEPARTMENT:
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ONE OF THE BEST FUNDED, FAMOUS, AND SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY…
IN THE COMPANY OF SOME OF THE TOP SPORTS ADMINISTRATORS, INCLUDING LEGENDARY A-D GENE SMITH.
Pat Chun: The blessing for me was that environment, allowed so many people to pour into me. Like at the end of the day, I'm just, you know, a son of two immigrants from South Korea. Yeah. Like me, the the fact that no one looks like me didn't wear like it was. You had all these great, administrators, coaches, donors that, you know, fortunately for me, saw something in me probably that I did not see in myself for a very long time. They were always willing to give me life advice. Guidance pushed me in the right direction. Tell me what books I should be reading. You know, it's really I'm a product of that environment, but it's really all those great people. And to be in college athletics and be surrounded by so many great coaches and watch how they operate and be brought under the hood of why they do things, you know, a lot is, you know, is really, you know, is really set the foundation of my career.
And then when GENE walked in the door a few years later, he actually challenged me to be an ad and put me under his wing and taught me the business.
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Monique He he suggested that.
Chun Oh, yeah, he's the one that plan. He's the one that planted the seed inside me.
Monique No kidding? Yeah. And you were kind of known as a rainmaker, right?
Chun Yeah. I was having success in fundraising at that point. He'd actually only been there. You know, Gene prides himself on his ability to read people, and it was it was really probably within the first couple months. Everybody's evaluating his staff. You know, he asked me, you know, what do you want to do with your career? And I actually told him I wanted to be an 80, but it was only because I'm a, you know, the kiss up in me- thinking that's what he wanted to hear.
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But then he challenged me, and then he, you know, he told me like, he's like, if you want, you know, he said, you know, basically said, if if I want to be mentored, if I want to be coached, you know, he he do that. But I need to listen to him. And, you know, that took me on a journey working for a gene that I could have never imagined.
THAT JOURNEY LED ALL THE WAY TO BECOMING EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE ATHLETICS DIRECTOR. GENE SMITH AND OTHERS HAD TAKEN HIM UNDER THEIR WINGS – BUT EVENTUALLY HE HAD TO SPREAD HIS OWN.
Pat Chun: I'd gotten myself to a place where I knew I my goals personally were be the best I'm supposed to be. And I knew that being at Ohio State, which was always home, I could never do that without getting outside of my comfort zone. Yeah. And the only way, only true growth can only happen once you get out of your comfort zone. So no matter how many times I would think of, you know, even though I was promoted a lot and had done a lot of things, I was never really outside of my comfort zone.
I joke around within our industry that Ohio State did little to nothing to prepare me for a mid-major job that is resource poor right now. The one thing that Ohio State did prepare me for, though, was it's the old Woody Hayes saying is you win with people and how people are the heart and soul and the source of everything within an organization. Yeah. So, so the nice thing for me, though, is allowed me to learn about the ad position and, you know, we had enough successes there at Florida Atlantic that that got me to Pullman, of all places. And, fast forward with their six years. Proud of the relationships, that you built there and the things we're able to do there. And that brought me here at the end of March.
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JANUARY OF 2018, CHUN WAS HIRED AS ATHLETICS DIRECTOR AT WASHINGTON STATE. WEEKS EARLIER, THE COUGS HAD PLAYED IN THE HOLIDAY BOWL. THEY LOST TO MICHIGAN STATE, BUT QUARTERBACK TYLER HILINSKI THREW FOR 272 YARDS AND TWO TOUCHDOWNS, AND HE WAS JUST A RED SHIRT SOPHOMORE.
HE WOULD NEVER BECOME A JUNIOR.
Monique Talking about was you right as you were going to be announced as the AD, horrible tragedy hit Washington state that you could not have seen. And that was Tyler Hilinski taking it. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. I believe that happened right before. Right before.
Chun I started. Yes. Yeah.
Monique How did you find out? How did you decide to deal with that? That must have been tough.
Chun: Yeah. It it'll it'll. When I look back on my career, it's the most pain that I've ever walked into. Now, from an aid perspective. Starting with tragedy is not, is that anything anyone should do, should want to do but enforced? You could see people in the realest light and you could see the heart of Washington state. Just just wrap itself around all the student athletes after that tragedy. It was there were hard, hard, hard days, weeks, months. And I was, you know, I will be the first to admit I was not well versed in, all the things that go in and around, suicide. But also it it it forced all of us to take a look in the mirror to figure out what are we are we doing, in terms of mental health support? So it was a lot of it was it was probably when you go back to learning, it was the best learning I've, I've probably had to go through. But it was also, you know, it was as you know, it was, you know, it's heartbreaking to walk into, you know, it was just heartbreaking. And there's there just it's, you know, the, you know, the layers of that are lasting. Yeah, yeah.
HE GIVES COACH MIKE LEACH A LOT OF CREDIT FOR GUIDING THE TEAM THROUGH THAT TRAGEDY. TWO YEARS LATER, LEACH LEFT FOR MISSISSIPPI STATE. BIG SHOES TO FILL.
CHUN HIRED NICK ROLOVICH FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII. THE VERY NEXT SEASON, HE FIRED HIM.
Monique: Talk about another challenge. You couldn't have predicted the pandemic. Then Rolovich won't get vaccinated. You let him go. And you were right in the middle of, so much controversy. // So much anger in the middle of the pandemic. Can you tell me what that was like to deal with that? Those are tough decisions to make.
Chun: Yeah. I mean, you go back to those times and and where, where we were at, you know, where the world was at, where the state was at. You know, the the one positive I always go to is that let us let Washington state down on the road to find Jake Dicker. And Jake is the perfect fit for Washington state and the, you know, to watch him, you know, grow as a coach, to watch him, you know, develop that football program. It's going to be odd. We're running against him one game a year and this year. But it's you know that that to me it was always, you know, as as Washington state came out of that time, they ended up with a coach who's a perfect fit for Washington State.
Monique: You became a target, though, for people who were against the vaccination mandate. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if people transferred the anti-Chinese feeling to you.
Chun: Yeah, I mean, that that was that there were there were a whole bunch of things going on in society with anti-Asian sentiment at that time. And, it was yeah, it was it was probably when I look back. Yeah, as you bring that up and, you know, it was probably harder trying to explain things to my daughters, because they would see, see things on TV that were anti-Asian. They would quickly shift, not to me in my well-being, but to their grandmother's. Yeah. Because she lives by herself. She's in Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah. You know, so that and trying to explain to them, because they've lived in a different world, different society, where, that being Asian is more accepted or is accepted and even more accepted and just trying to let you know, it's just there are so much anti-Asian rhetoric and that moment in that time and just trying to explain to them where the world is at, why these things are being said and, you know, and how we, you know, what is the, you know, what is the hope of going forward. But that's probably when I look back on those and that's that's what I think of.
HE FELT THE PULL BACK TO OHIO.
SPRING OF 2024, HE KNEW IT WAS TIME TO SPREAD HIS WINGS AGAIN.
CHUN'S TENURE AT WAZZOU WAS UNDENIABLY SUCCESSFUL—
WOMEN'S AND MEN'S BASKETBALL MADE THE TOURNAMENT-
FOOTBALL COACH JAKE DICKERT LED THE COUGS TO CONSECUTIVE BOWL GAMES-
FUNDRAISING ALMOST TRIPLED.
BUT, THEN IN MARCH, A STAKE THROUGH THE HEART: CHUN LEFT … NOT FOR OSU BUT FOR RIVAL UDUB.
COUGS WERE STUNNED AND ANGRY.
BUT CHUN WAS SURPRISED TOO. IT WASN'T HIS PLAN.
HE THOUGHT THE TIME HAD COME TO RETURN HOME TO OHIO STATE.
BUT THE NEW UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT DIDN'T KNOW HIM, AND HE WENT WITH SOMEONE ELSE.
Monique You mentioned Gene Smith announced his retirement last year. Yeah. I imagine you perked up a little bit. What was it like not to get that job?
Chun My wife reminds me that the good Lord has a plan for us. And, you know, I've, I've I've joked around with friends that, I'll go back to my original plan in life and let the good Lord decide what we're supposed to be, not me.
IT WAS PART OF REORIENTING HIMSELF –
AWAY FROM THE HOME WHERE HE WAS BORN
AND TOWARD THE ONE HE BUILT—
WITH HIS WIFE NATALIE FOR THEIR THREE DAUGHTERS.
Monique Any mistakes you made as a father that you want to share?
Chun Oh, tons. Probably. a little bit like I said, I blame my parents for a lot of things.
Monique Don't we all?
Chun When I, when I first took my job by my first aid job, I was always of the mindset, I'm doing this, you know, for my family. Like you're the first. You put all this stupid stuff in your head about, you can't fail. And you know, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't have success as an A.D., send me a long time for another Asian American gets another one. So you have all this garbage in your head.
It was actually Natalie and I. remember Natalie had, had an intervention with me one time, and she talked about, you know, how, you know, like, I'm bringing home too much stress and, like, all this, all this, all this stress is impacting, you know, the relationship with my girls. But then I remember I had and I was talking to a mentor one time.
He had said that when you take a leadership, a job that's in a leadership role, he's like the most important person in your in in your world is your wife. And he's like, he said, because when you go into that role, he's like, you're going to have instant friends, instant colleagues, and your wife's going to be sitting at home trying to figure out doctors and, what day the garbage is supposed to go out.
And she's going to actually be doing the real work, and trying to figure stuff out on her own while you got people helping you. And I discounted it because I'm like, you know, I care about my wife and kids. Like, that's not important to me. It took me forever to figure out that I'm not I don't I'm not doing this job for them. Like, I get to do this job because of them, because of all their sacrifices. And that shift took me forever to figure out. 1 47 11
HIS FAMILY IS EXCITED TO BE IN SEATTLE.
THEIR PULLMAN HOUSE SOLD IN ONE DAY. THE MOVE WAS EASY - THE COMMUNITY WELCOMING. HIS GIRLS LOVE THE CITY.
AND APPARENTLY THE GOOD LORD HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR.
U-DUB JOINED THE BIG 10.
SO IN THE 2025 FOOTBALL SEASON, HE WILL BE RETURNING TO OSU …. AS A NEW *RIVAL.
AND JUST LIKE WHEN HE WAS A KID, HE MAY FEEL PARTLY AT HOME – AND PARTLY LIKE A VISITOR.
Pat Chun: I told my daughters that, when you look back in life, you're always better off going after things, that challenge you the most and not getting them then not trying at all. And there's always lessons to be learned from that. And, like I said, for us to have ended up here was really were supposed to be. And, you know, we've embraced that. And, you know, we're excited for what's around the corner for us here.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Was it a Hit or Miss? I would love to hear what you think.
You can find me, Monique Ming Laven on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. All the links are on kiro7.com/HitandMiss.
Photography and editing – by Jeff Ritter.
Art Direction from Ryan Barber –
Invaluable feedback from Julie Berg, Kyla Grace, and James Sido.
I hope you'll continue the ride with me. Please follow this podcast for all the episodes, dropping on Wednesdays.
Next time on 'Hit and Miss:'
((NATS PIANO))
RICK STEVES LIKE YOU'VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE.
((nats))
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE READ HIS GUIDEBOOKS – WATCHED HIS TWELVE SEASONS OF 'RICK STEVES' EUROPE'—GONE ON TRIPS THROUGH HIS TRAVEL COMPANY.
BUT HE WAS NOT ALWAYS AN EXPERT
1 12 07 this is day two on our trip, and we're already almost dead.
THE JOURNEY—FILLED WITH MISTAKES—
THAT MADE THIS FORMER PIANO TEACHER … THE TRAVEL GURU HE IS TODAY
01:08:25] and I was debating whether or not I should lose my marijuana virginity in Afghanistan.
THAT'S ON THE NEXT HIT AND MISS.