Starmer pressed on 'fear and anxiety' caused by welfare changes in grilling by MPs

BBC News

5 days ago

Update:
Date: 16:54 BST
Title: Starmer fields difficult questions ahead of summer recess
Content: Keir Starmer faced more than an hour of questions on tackling poverty and international affairs from senior MPs ahead of Parliament's summer recess.
Here are some of the key takeaways from Starmer's 90-minute stint in the hot seat:
On tackling poverty:
On international affairs:
This now brings our live coverage of Keir Starmer's appearance before the Liaison Committee to a close. Thank you for joining us.
Update:
Date: 16:33 BST
Title: An even-keeled performance for Starmer
Content: Helen CattPolitical correspondent
Downing Street is likely to feel pretty pleased with how that session of the Liaison Committee went.
The prime minister didn't appear to make any major slip-ups or to have been put uncomfortably on the spot.
He even seemed comfortable enough to smile as he batted away questions about what might or might not be in the Budget.
The most awkward moment was the exchange with Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, as she didn't hold back on her views on the welfare reforms.
He, though, stuck firmly to the government's line and didn't make any further headlines.
Update:
Date: 16:18 BST
Title: What's happened to poverty over the last 30 years?
Content: By Robert Cuffe
One of the main areas that Keir Starmer was quizzed by senior MPs about was how the Labour government plans to tackle poverty.
Just over 20% of people in the UK were living in poverty last year - a figure that has barely changed over the last two decades.
The number of children affected has remained close to 30% over the same period.
The most commonly used measure says you're in poverty if your household's income is at least 40% lower than the average household's.
And so the poverty rate doesn't always fall when living standards improve.
It falls when the lowest incomes - most affected by changes to the minimum wage or benefits - catch up with those of average households.
The child poverty rate has been drifting up since it dipped during the pandemic.
Last year, it rose back up near the level seen just before the pandemic, which itself was the highest seen since the mid-2000s.
Update:
Date: 16:10 BST
Title: Starmer's grilling by senior MPs comes to a close
Content: The questions for the prime minister are now finishing, after just over 90 minutes of discussions on poverty and international affairs.
We'll bring you a recap of the key lines shortly - stay with us.
Update:
Date: 16:09 BST
Title: 'We need to make sure we protect BBC World Service'
Content: In one of the final questions put to the PM, Dame Caroline Dinenage touches on the BBC again.
She asks Starmer if he agrees that the BBC World Service "bolsters national and global security" and if so, whether more government departments should contribute to fund it?
Starmer says the World Service "is really important".
He then says there are other states that are happy to assist in broadcasting or other areas if there's a gap left.
"We need to make sure we protect the World Service," he adds.
Dinenage says that in countries like Liberia, Lebanon and Kenya - where BBC World Service has pulled out - Russia Today and the Chinese state media have backfilled.
She says it's important for the government to have this on its radar.
Update:
Date: 16:06 BST
Title: Will US trade talks water-down regulations on fighting misinformation?
Content: Chi Onwurah, chair of the science and technology committee, put to the prime minister questions about misinformation online. Can Starmer give a commitment that trade talks with the US will not lead to regulations being watered down?
Starmer doesn't address that point directly, but points out that further measures in the Online Safety Act will come into force imminently and he wants to go further than that.
The prime minister says his priority is to make sure British democracy can function effectively and that elections are not impacted by misinformation.
He adds that he was "very worried" about misinformation during the last general election campaign, and is worried it could be a factor in the future.
Update:
Date: 16:04 BST
Title: Afghan data breach a 'shocking inheritance', Starmer says
Content: Thornberry now asks the prime minister about what she calls "that shocking Afghan data breach".
"Do you think there was a better way in which the previous government could have dealt with the breach? Do you think a super injunction the right way?" she asks.
Starmer agrees that it was a "shocking inheritance" for his government. He says that it created a sense of discomfort for him and others, which is why a review was set up - led by Paul Rimmer - to ask if it is necessary for the arrangement to still be in place.
The review produced the answer "no" and the injunction was lifted.
Starmer adds that the select committee is now looking into the data breach and he hopes the previous government will appear before the committee and provide their own explanations.
Update:
Date: 16:02 BST
Title: PM: UK has made 'real progress' in resetting EU relationship
Content: Emily Thornberry, chair of the foreign affairs committee, is next and asks Starmer about the UK's relations with the EU.
She asks if further standards - such as for medicines or chemicals - could be agreed on with the EU at the next summit.
Starmer says his government has made "real progress" and has reset relations with partners in Europe, which they had pledged to do.
He adds that the UK has led with the French on the "coalition of the willing" - showing its ability to pull allies together in response to the conflict in Ukraine.
Thornberry then asks what a better relationship with the EU on defence could look like.
Starmer says the EU countries need to cooperate more if they are going to spend more on defence.
He adds that Nato has been a "cornerstone of our peace" for decades but it requires "more heavy lifting from the Europeans".
Update:
Date: 15:53 BST
Title: 'We need a ceasefire and we need it straight away' - Starmer
Content: The questions for the prime minister now shift from how the government plans to tackle poverty to focus on international affairs.
Andy Slaughter begins this section of questioning, and says: "every day it is clearer that the civilian population of Gaza is being starved, killed and displaced in a systematic, yet indiscriminate, way."
He then says the steps taken by the UK so far have had no effect on the actions of the Israeli government.
Slaughter asks: "What further steps will the government take to protect Palestinians from mass killing and the destruction of their homes and communities?"
Starmer replies by saying that "we need a ceasefire and we need it straight away". He adds that this will "create a space for the remaining hostages to be released... and aid to get in at speed and at volume".
The prime minister says the only way to get a sustained peace in Gaza is by making space for a political process.
Update:
Date: 15:48 BST
Title: Threat of cyber-attacks on UK pose a serious risk, PM says
Content: The prime minister is now asked about cybersecurity by Nick Smith, who references recent high-profile attacks on high street names like Marks and Spencer.
Does the prime minister agree that investing in the domestic private cybersecurity industry could be a pipeline for jobs and reduce the risk firms face?
Starmer says he does because there are many more cyber incidents than most people appreciate.
They are a serious risk which the government and public services face every day, he adds.
Update:
Date: 15:44 BST
Title: The Budget set out biggest devolution settlement for Scotland, Starmer says
Content: Patricia Ferguson, chair of the Scottish affairs committee, says that in Scotland, persistent long-term poverty and poor outcomes occur in former industrial areas, particularly those that are not close to major towns.
"What steps is the government taking to ensure the benefits of the industrial strategy reach those communities?" she asks.
Starmer responds by saying some levers to do with poverty are devolved, but that the government will work on those that aren't.
Areas where the government can do things directly include:
He adds that last year's Budget set out the biggest devolution settlement for Scotland.
Update:
Date: 15:41 BST
Title: Starmer: 'We need to invest across Wales, and south Wales'
Content: Nick Smith now tells the prime minister that almost a quarter of people are economically inactive in the south Wales valleys, as he points out some of the UK's former industrial areas are "harder to revitalise".
He asks the prime minister if the government will look at investment for areas that once "powered our country". Starmer acknowledges there are "long-term issues in these communities that have been overlooked".
He says the government is taking a number of measures, citing the Cardiff and Newport investment zone to drive growth in manufacturing in the area.
He adds that there is also a Newport semi-conductor cluster to support hundreds of highly-skilled jobs.
Starmer also cites the support being placed into Port Talbot steel, owned by Tata, saying: "I was very pleased to see the electric arch furnace work start last week, or the week before."
"We also need to invest across Wales, and south Wales in particular, in transport and rail," he adds.
Update:
Date: 15:38 BST
Title: 'Transportation deserts' - how is the government tackling them?
Content: Ruth Cadbury, chair of the transport committee, says people without cars are often dependent on "minimal" bus services.
More than half of small towns in south-west and north-east England are "complete public transport deserts", she says - so how will the government ensure planned changes to bus services will help?
Starmer says a lot of money was invested in buses in the last Budget and the government has capped bus fares at £3 until March 2027.
The government is supporting reforms to ensure local leaders have more control over setting bus routes, the prime minister adds. He says this will help prevent private firms from axing non-profitable routes.
Update:
Date: 15:35 BST
Title: 'We're keeping an open mind on what to do with the licence fee'
Content: Dinenage now moves on to the BBC's licence fee, describing it as a "regressive tax".
She asks for Starmer's views on how it could be reformed and when the Charter Review will be concluded.
Starmer says they are going through the review and it will come to its conclusion.
"We're keeping an open mind on what to do with the licence fee," he says, adding that the government is working closely with the BBC.
Update:
Date: 15:34 BST
Title: Wry smile from PM after donor gifts dig
Content: Helen CattPolitical correspondent
A wry smile from the prime minister as Conservative MP Dame Caroline Dinenage has a little dig about him being happy to be on the receiving end of philanthropy.
That's a reference to gifts of clothing, glasses and football tickets he accepted from a Labour donor, which were are the centre of a media row last year
She does it as she reads out figures that suggest his constituency is among the least generous in the country
He seems to take it in good heart though and says his area will have to "up its game".
Update:
Date: 15:33 BST
Title: 'That's it?', MP asks, as Starmer faces questions over supporting charity sector
Content: Attention turns away from fiscal forecasts and is now squarely focused on what Starmer's government is doing to support the charity sector.
Dame Caroline Dinenage says 86% of charities are seeing an increased demand for the services, though fewer corporations are donating as their overhead expenses rise.
Starmer says the government is looking at what can be done for business rates for charities.
"That's it?" Dinenage replies. Starmer says he will write to her on the topic.
She points out that Starmer earlier said tackling poverty is "central to everything government does" and that charities work to provide that support.
She continues: "Isn't it time to offer a blanket carve out to charities?"
The prime minister says no, but adds that "one of the things we launched last Thursday was the civil service covenant... to bring the government and charities together through partnership".
"We inherited both a broken economy and broken public services."
Update:
Date: 15:29 BST
Title: 'Fluctuations' in borrowing 'broadly driven' by global factors, Starmer argues
Content: Steve Barclay, chair of the finance committee, puts to Starmer that government borrowing in May was at its second-highest level on record.
Starmer acknowledges that, but says he expects borrowing to be in line with forecasts despite monthly "fluctuations", which he says are "broadly driven" by global factors.
Barclay points out that between the chancellor's last two fiscal statements, economic changes meant the government had £14bn less to spend than it thought it had six months early. Analysts say something similar could happen ahead of this Budget - does the prime minister agree?
Starmer refuses to be drawn on forecasts, saying there are lots of competing predictions which change on a "pretty regular basis" and that he will look at the situation as it is at the Budget.
Update:
Date: 15:26 BST
Title: How does Labour plan to help the poorest households?
Content: Liam Byrne now asks Starmer if he wants everybody in society to feel better off over the next three years, including the poorest 40% of households.
Yes, Starmer says.
The chair of the business and trade committee then proceeds to list forecasts from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which claim that - with the government's current measures in place - the bottom 40% of society are not going to be better off.
They will actually be £12,000 worse off each year, Byrne says.
What needs to change between now and the end of parliament, he asks.
Starmer says the priority should be growth and creating more wealth. He says the measures in the Budget and Spending Review aim to achieve this and ensure wages go up.
Byrne then raises the Bank of England's forecasts that predict wage growth to slow and taxes and bills to rise faster than wages.
He asks once again what is needed for everyone to enjoy higher living standards.
Starmer lists what the government has already done, including:
He adds that the central focus "has to be on creating more wealth".
Update:
Date: 15:13 BST
Title: Out of work young people are 'huge challenge for country' - PM
Content: Turning now to the nearly one million young people out of work in the UK, Starmer says they are a "huge challenge for the country", and that the system is "broken and needs to be mended".
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown says the UK has a "long-term trend of unemployment increasing every month", adding that it now stands at 4.7% with 1.6m people out of work.
He says this is "perplexing", citing an inquiry into job centres - released on 2 July - which found that there were 2,100 work coaches in these centres than the year before.
Clifton-Brown pushes the prime minister on how this can be reversed.
Starmer says the employment rate is up, 0.8% over the year, and unemployment rate is up - which he acknowledges could be seen as a "slight contradiction".
He explains this contradiction by pointing out that the inactivity numbers have gone down. This, he says, means that those not looking for work have begun to look for work, meaning the employment rate is going up at the same time that the unemployment rate rises.
The PM says this highlights the importance of work coaches in job centres to support people into work.
Update:
Date: 15:08 BST
Title: An uncomfortable exchange on welfare reforms
Content: Helen CattPolitical correspondent
The exchange with Debbie Abrahams that we just witnessed was an example of the unique platform the Liaison Committee provides.
We saw a Labour MP telling a Labour prime minister face-to-face that his welfare cuts have been "far removed from Labour values" and that they "must do better".
It looked a little uncomfortable.
Starmer stuck to the government's line that getting people into work was an "important Labour value".
That was never the point though for the rebels - as the cuts they objected to were to benefits that also get paid to working people.