Elizabeth Banks and Jessica Biel on ‘The Better Sister' and taking control in Hollywood
The intense showdowns occurred on a New York City padel court when the women had days off from filming their new Prime Video limited series, 'The Better Sister,' now streaming. Squaring off in the increasingly popular racquet sport, the actors, along with Biel's husband, Timberlake, and Banks' husband, Max Handelman, 'had a blast kicking each other's asses,' Biel said.
Back on 'The Better Sister' set, Banks and Biel were happy to play on the same team. There, they both served as stars and executive producers, and they praised the collaborative, ego-free environment overseen by showrunners Olivia Milch and Regina Corrado. (Though their competitive streak did continue with between-takes Bananagrams.)
'This was a group of, frankly, a lot of moms, who were like, 'We don't have time for nonsense. We want our crew home to have dinner with their families,' ' Banks said. 'There was a lot of mutual respect going on, but then we all demanded the best from each other.'
The eight-episode whodunit, adapted from the 2019 novel by Alafair Burke, is a twisty, Shakespearean tale: Two estranged sisters, the glamorous, successful Chloe (Biel) and the recovering addict Nicky (Banks), are thrust back together when Chloe's husband, Adam (Corey Stoll) — who used to be Nicky's husband — is murdered. When Nicky and Adam's son, Ethan (Maxwell Acee Donovan) — who was raised by Chloe and Adam — is arrested for the crime, the sisters must untangle a web of family secrets and betrayal. Yeah, it's complicated.
'So many shows I've written on are about muscular, macho men doing violent things to each other,' said Corrado, whose past work includes 'Sons of Anarchy' and 'Deadwood.' 'But I think the scariest thing is women in this space and the intimate damage we can do to each other, particularly as sisters.'
While Biel, 43, and Banks, 51, both rose to prominence as actors, they've been increasingly expanding their resumes behind the camera. Over the past decade, Banks has directed films, including 'Cocaine Bear,' 'Pitch Perfect 2' and the 2019 'Charlie's Angels' reboot, and produced numerous projects under her and Handelman's Brownstone Productions banner.
Biel has likewise segued into producing with her company, Iron Ocean, which backed the psychological thriller series 'Cruel Summer,' 'The Sinner' and 'Candy,' the latter two in which she also starred. (Biel is also in early development on a reboot of '7th Heaven,' the '90s series on which she got her start as the rebellious Mary Camden, though she won't reprise her role.)
For Biel, those recent thriller projects, along with 'The Better Sister,' speak to what she finds 'endlessly interesting.' 'Why do humans do the things that they do?' she said. 'When you're pressed up against the wall and you're fighting for your life or to keep your kids safe, what would you do? How far would you go?'
In a joint video interview, Banks and Biel discussed making 'The Better Sister' and their decades of experience that led them here. These are edited excerpts from the conversation, which includes a few spoilers.
What initially attracted you to 'The Better Sister' and your specific roles?
Biel: I first read for the Nicky part, and I was definitely interested in it. Then, a couple days later, I got the call saying, 'They want you for Chloe.' When I heard that Elizabeth was talking to them about Nicky, I was like, oh, yes. This makes more sense to me now. I've also heard for a million years that we look like sisters.
Banks: I had never heard a bad word about Jessica Biel in the industry. She was known as kind, generous, talented, a great collaborator, easy to be around. And I thought, well, that sounds easy and fun. Craig Gillespie, who directed our pilot, got on with me and said, 'I want you to be a mess, Banks. It needs more humor, and you'll be funny.' He sold me on this messy Nicky, in contrast to Jessica, and I thought that sounded like a great idea all across the board.
Elizabeth, as an actor, you've received the most recognition for your comedic roles, but you've been focused lately on quieter, dramatic parts. Is that a direction you'd always hoped to go in?
Banks: It's interesting. I started my career in a lot of dramas. Man, I remember making 'Seabiscuit.' It was nominated for seven Academy Awards. It was very serious fare, and I was put in that [dramatic] box early on. It honestly took making 'The 40-Year-Old Virgin' to even clue people in that I was funny. Like, I knew I was. I thought I was going to come in and do rom-coms, but when I started making films, it wasn't a skill that was asked of me. I love that I got to reset my career, and I've been able to do it multiple times.
The very title of this series, 'The Better Sister,' pits these two women against each other. How have you seen that comparison game play out in your own experiences in this industry?
Biel: You're constantly compared. At least back in the day, it felt like people were trying to keep women away from each other. You'd sit in an audition room, and there would be this energy because your agents and managers would have made you feel like these women are your competition. There really was a feeling of 'you are against everybody, and everybody is against you.' I feel like that's changed so much, but this industry is cutthroat. I have a lot of real experience in feeling less than, feeling judged, feeling like the industry has been putting their thumb on top of you, and you have to fight, fight, fight for every opportunity.
Banks: I had a similar experience coming up as an ingénue. There's a scarcity mentality, like there's only so many roles. Now we have all of this incredible data, like what the Geena Davis Institute has collected, about women's roles in Hollywood. At some point, I just looked around and thought, the numbers are against me. The very first film I ever made ['Wet Hot American Summer'] was with Paul Rudd and Bradley Cooper, and they went on to play superheroes. I'm never going to get that, especially once I got over a certain age. You start to understand that it's systemic, and it is a numbers game. You can keep playing that game, or you can do what so many incredible women have done before me, which is create your own opportunities.
I know that we are encouraging the next generation because I made a movie with them called 'Bottoms.' Emma Seligman, Rachel Sennott and Ayo Edebiri, they're doing it now. They're going to make their own stuff, and it's incredible. I think the industry has changed because women changed it. I just want to make sure that we have actually learned the lessons, and we are creating the opportunities.
Biel: I really do hope it is different and better and more fair and more loving because, man, it was hard.
One of the big themes in this show is trust. This idea of, can we trust our family? Can we trust our partners? Can we trust the police? Can we trust our memories? Did working on this show make you question anything about your own realities?
Banks: My father served in Vietnam, and we never talked about it when I was a kid. Vietnam vets suffered when they came back. America was not interested in them. What does that do to people's psyches that had served their country and now they're being spit at? This brought up a lot of those notions for me about how little you actually know your parents when you're a child and how the layers come out the older you get.
I was the older sister, and I was able to protect my younger sister from the version of my father that I knew. He didn't give that version to her because he and my mom had learned a lesson about what was going on with him. I'm 11 years older than my brother. He did not get the same version of my parents that I did.
Biel: Where I parallel a little bit in Chloe's world is this weird, naive trust of police. It's interesting watching Elizabeth in the scenes where she's expressing Nicky's feelings about, 'Don't trust these people. Don't give them anything.' I was wondering if I have those same thoughts that Chloe does, where I would just offer up information that I shouldn't because I trust that they're here to protect me. Would I be in a situation where I would not be taking care of myself or my family members because I felt obligated to almost please this police department who is supposed to help me?
So, [I was] trying to understand that system a little bit better, alongside all the questions you have about your parents and what version you got as a child. My brother and I are three years apart, but I was working when I was really young, and he wasn't. He was at home. I basically abandoned him. But I was so self-absorbed, I didn't think about it in that way. I just was doing what was my passion. I know he had a very different experience in our family than I did. I feel nervous to talk to him about it sometimes because I have guilt around that. He was in my shadow, and I left him.
Spoilers for the final episodes — we ultimately learn that Nicky killed Adam, and that reveal puts everything we've seen her do thus far in a different light. Elizabeth, what went into playing a character who's keeping a huge secret from everyone, including the audience, for so long?
Banks: Look, I literally say right after he gets arrested, 'Tell them it was me. I'll say I did it.' But nobody's going to believe her. I was actually always thinking about 'Presumed Innocent,' the original [film], where she knows all along that she can make him free. Ethan's not going to jail. Nicky was willing and ready every minute of this entire series to offer herself up and say, 'I'm going to jail for this. I did it.' I think she almost expects that it's where her life is supposed to go — but she also can't let Adam win. So, there is a lot of strategy going on for Nicky. She's playing chess, and she's playing the long game, and poor Chloe is not in on any of it.
Chloe then ends up framing Adam's boss for the murder in the finale. Jessica, how did you feel about that decision and the motivations around it?
Biel: It felt to me that it was what had to happen. Because once it's revealed that Adam set Nicky up and pushed those drugs on her, and she's not this horrific mom, her son was not in danger — that realization for Chloe is just like — oh, my God — everything that she has done has been in vain. She ruined her sister's life. She's taken over being the mother of this child. For what? It's all a lie. So, when all of that comes out, that is the moment where she is 100% loyal to Nicky. They are officially in it together. Now she has to protect Nicky in order to protect Ethan, and to do that, we need somebody to take the blame for this because we are all culpable. Everybody is playing their part, and nobody is innocent.
There's a line in the show to the effect of, 'Nothing ever really disappears,' whether that's because of the stories that people tell about us or the permanence of the internet. Is there a story or project that's followed you around that you wish would go away?
Biel: I'm sure you could dig up some stuff about me, and I would probably be like, 'Oh, yeah, that wasn't the best choice.' But you have to fall on your face, look like an idiot, sound like an idiot and get back up and go, 'All right, won't do that again.' I don't know where I would be if I didn't stumble around a little bit. I don't want to be stumbling around too much anymore at this age.
On the flip side, what past chapter of your life are you the most proud of?
Banks: I really am proud that I was able to use the opportunity that came during 'The Hunger Games,' where I had this guaranteed work with these big movies. I started my family then, and I started my directing career then, and it was because I wasn't out there shaking it trying to make a living. It was a real gift to have some security for a hot minute because it allowed me to look around and go, is this what I really want? What are my priorities? What opportunities can I pursue while I have this security? I'm proud that I took advantage of it.
Biel: I think back in my early 20s, taking the opportunity to start my little [production] company [with co-founder Michelle Purple], which was dumb and small and lame for like 10 years. We didn't make anything, and it was a disaster. But we hustled, I took control and said I'm going to start making headway to make things for me. I'm not going to just sit and wait for a phone call from my agents, which is what I had been told to do. I started procuring material and working with writers and learning how to develop them. Now, my little company is making some stuff, which is cool.
Neither of you come from industry families. Did you feel like outsiders stepping into that world?
Banks: I still feel like an outsider.
Biel: I was going to say the same thing!
Banks: I know my worth, and I know what I've earned, so I don't have impostor syndrome anymore. But I do feel like there's a party in Hollywood that I'm not necessarily on the inside of. It keeps me scrappy, to be honest.
Biel: It also keeps you from getting lost in the sauce. You're not paying so much attention to everybody else or what you're not getting. It's a good mindset to be in because you just focus on what you're doing. When I'm outputting creatively, that's what fuels me. The joy is in doing it.
Hashtags
Try Our AI Features
Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:
Comments
No comments yet...
Related Articles
Time Magazine
an hour ago
- Time Magazine
Daniel Dae Kim Breaks Down the Ambiguous Ending of Spy Thriller Butterfly
Warning: This post contains spoilers for Butterfly. Butterfly, a tense spy thriller dropping all six episodes on Prime Video on Aug. 13, follows David Jung (Daniel Dae Kim), a mysterious and unpredictable former U.S. intelligence operative living in South Korea. Over the course of the show, the story gradually reveals the dangerous consequences of a past decision that now puts David's life at risk. The series blends intense espionage, complex family dynamics, and moral ambiguity, revealing how loyalty and betrayal intersect in the high-stakes world of global intelligence. Throughout Butterfly, viewers are drawn into a tense chase as David is pursued by Rebecca (Reina Hardesty), a cold young agent who also happens to be his daughter. Rebecca works for the secretive and sinister spy organization known as Caddis, which has its own dark agenda. The narrative explores the devastating impact of family secrets and fractured loyalties, while building toward a gripping conclusion that ties together the personal and political threads—yet leaves room for lingering questions. David Jung's past and the long tail of betrayal Central to Butterfly is David's history working alongside Juno (Piper Perabo), a high-ranking operative within Caddis. David and Juno were once close colleagues within the agency. However, tensions arose when Juno betrayed David by leaking classified information to a terrorist network led by Hugo Maldonado. This betrayal directly led to a fatal ambush in the Philippines where David's entire U.S. intelligence team was wiped out, except for him. Among the information leaked were personal details about David's daughter Rebecca, then a teenager, including photographs, birth records, and daily routines, putting her in immediate danger. To protect Rebecca, David faked his own death, cutting all ties and disappearing from her life. This decision resulted in nearly a decade of estrangement and set the stage for the complicated reunion that drives the series' plot. 'It's really the trigger event to the series itself. It's the event that changes David's life and also changes Rebecca's life irrevocably. David at that moment thinks he's making the right decision for his family, but as is so often the case when you're a parent, the decision you think is right for your child is often the one that is exactly wrong. So it sets up the entire relationship conflict for season one,' executive producer and star Daniel Dae Kim tells TIME. The dangerous reunion between father and daughter The series begins with Rebecca, now a skilled assassin working for Caddis, sent to take out David, whom she has learned is actually alive. She believes her father abandoned her and is conflicted about her mission. When they reunite, their fraught relationship is laid bare: Rebecca's anger and resentment clash with David's desire to protect and reconnect with her. Their encounter triggers a chase across South Korea as they flee relentless Caddis operatives. David reveals plans to escape to Vietnam, chosen for its lack of extradition agreements, where he hopes to create a safe space for Rebecca and his new family, which includes his wife Eunju (Kim Tae-hee) and their young daughter Minhee. 'The most important thing about the storytelling was getting the relationships right. If we understand the dynamics of Rebecca and David's relationship, the action flows as an extension of the relationship dynamics. There are some action shows where they just go from fight to fight to fight, and you can see that the connective tissue between them isn't very strong. But for us, the emphasis was on making sure the relationships were complex and interesting, and that the fights were an expression of their own emotional conflict,' says Kim. The growing threat and complex family dynamics As David, Rebecca, Eunju, and Minhee settle in Busan while plotting the next phase of their escape, the blended family unit struggles to achieve equilibrium. Rebecca struggles to accept Eunju and Minhee, feeling displaced by the new family dynamic. Eunju urges unity, stressing that they must face threats as one family. Meanwhile, Caddis, led by Juno and supported by her son Oliver (Louis Landau), intensifies efforts to capture David and Rebecca. Oliver, torn between loyalty to his mother and his own survival, plays a pivotal role in the ongoing power struggle within Caddis. The conflict escalates into a series of violent encounters and strategic moves, with David and Rebecca adopting increasingly desperate tactics to evade capture. Turning Oliver against Juno In a decisive shift, David and Rebecca capture Oliver and begin a psychological operations campaign designed to destabilize Juno's control over Caddis. Their objective is to sow distrust between Juno and Oliver, undermining the agency from within. They plant surveillance devices, stage false communications, and manipulate events to make Oliver suspicious of his mother's intentions. This internal disruption weakens Juno's grip on power and exposes fractures in her leadership. This phase of the series illustrates the intricate psychological tactics used in espionage, where family bonds and loyalty become tools for manipulation and control. The final confrontation and ambiguous ending Rebecca is eventually captured and taken to an abandoned factory by Juno and Caddis operatives. David initiates a high-stakes rescue, which includes a high-speed chase and a brutal fight with Gun (Kim Ji-hoon), Juno's lethal assassin. Despite sustaining serious injuries, David manages to rescue Rebecca. During the confrontation, Rebecca stops David from killing Juno, insisting they spare her life but demanding that she never threaten their family again. Following this, Juno and her ally Hollis (Sean Dulake) escape South Korea by private jet. Oliver calls Juno, who denies any attempt on his life, blaming David and apologizing for her failings as a mother, indicating ongoing fractures within the family and organization. The series closes with David, Rebecca, Eunju, and Minhee trying to rebuild their lives and planning to move to the United States. However, tension returns in the final scene when Eunju is discovered to be gravely injured and bleeding at a restaurant where they were having dinner, while Rebecca is nowhere to be found. David desperately asks Eunju if Rebecca was the one who harmed her, but she is too weak to respond. Calling out for Rebecca, David is left with uncertainty, underscoring that the family's danger is far from over. Will Butterfly return for a second season? The series finale leaves several crucial questions unanswered, including the fragile and complicated relationship between David and Rebecca, the true extent of the secretive Caddis organization, and most importantly, the unresolved mystery of who harmed Eunju. The ambiguous and tense ending clearly signals that the story was crafted with a continuation in mind. Adding to this anticipation, Kim himself has expressed hope for a renewal. 'We hope that there's a second season. We wanted to end on an event that called into question all of the bonds that had been built over season one. David is trying to bring his family back together and we want to see him succeed in that attempt. And the end of Season 1 shows us that it's not as easy as he thinks it's going to be.'
Tom's Guide
2 hours ago
- Tom's Guide
I track the Prime Video top 10 every day — here's the 3 movies to watch right now (and 1 to skip)
The Prime Video top 10 is a great starting point when you're looking for something new to watch on the Amazon-owned streaming service. It gives you a snapshot view of the flicks currently being watched (and hopefully enjoyed) by millions of fellow subscribers. However, just because a movie manages to claim a spot in the Prime Video top 10 doesn't guarantee its quality. As somebody who tracks the Prime Video charts every single day, I've seen plenty of subpar movies score a spot on the list. So, to save you the pain of wasting your precious movie-watching time on a dud, I'm picking out the current gems down below. I've also identified the one movie that I really believe you should skip at all costs in the current Prime Video top 10 (apologies in advance to Arnold Schwarzenegger). So, let's dive in. Here's the current best and worst of the Prime Video top 10 movies (as of Wednesday, August 13). The latest chapter in the 'Planet of the Apes' series leaps ahead into the far future following the prequel trilogy and sees Earth now fully inhabited by intelligent primates. The last remaining humans are scattered to the wind, and the battle for the planet has been lost. But that doesn't mean this sci-fi action movie lacks humanity or heart, quite the opposite. It's a surprisingly human tale that follows a young ape named Noa on a journey of redemption and a quest to find a new home. Pitched as the start of a new trilogy, 'Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes' sees Noa (Owen Teague) set out on a dangerous mission to rescue what remains of his tribe after they are taken prisoner by a vicious chimpanzee known as Proximus Caesar (Kevin Durand). Along the way, he also befriends a young human girl (Freya Allan), who is looking for the key to humanity's survival. This blockbuster boasts eye-popping effects and a thoughtful story. Stream "Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes" on Prime Video now It certainly speaks to the suspect quality of the current Prime Video top 10 as a whole that I'm including 'Uncharted' in my trio of recommendations. To be up front, I have a lot of problems with this action-adventure flick. As a huge fan of the Uncharted video games, it's a poor adaptation of the series, with some disastrous casting decisions (Mark Wahlberg as Victor Sullivan is borderline insulting), but viewers not so precious about the source material and just seeking a global trotting romp in the vein of Indiana Jones may enjoy this one. Get instant access to breaking news, the hottest reviews, great deals and helpful tips. Tom Holland plays Nathan Drake, a young treasure hunter, recruited by Victor 'Sully' Sullivan to find the lost fortune of Ferdinand Magellan, a 15th-century explorer. Drake is also motivated by a desire to find out what happened to his missing brother Sam (Rudy Pankow). Along the way, Drake and Sully must square off against Santiago Moncada (Antonio Banderas), a ruthless rival treasure hunter who is obsessed with finding Magellan's treasure as he believes it's his birthright. Watch "Uncharted" on Prime Video now 'Wicked' is easily my most rewatched movie of 2024, because the musical extravaganza is such a joy from start to finish. And the grand finale with Cynthia Erivo belting out 'Defying Gravity' gives me chills every single time. Considering how long a 'Wicked' movie was in development, it's pretty shocking that the final result is so remarkable. Perhaps that's down to the note-perfect casting with Erivo playing Elphaba and Ariana Grande playing Glinda. With 'Wicked: For Good,' which will adapt the second half of the enduringly popular Broadway musical, flying into theaters this November, now is a great time to watch 'Wicked,' or, like me, rewatch it for the dozenth time. If you're totally out of the loop on this one, 'Wicked' is a prequel to 'The Wizard of Oz,' which tells the previously untold story of the Wicked Witch of the West, and her friendship with Glinda the Good at Shiz University. Watch "Wicked" on Prime Video now Arnold Schwarzenegger headlining an action-thriller should always be a recipe for entertainment, but sadly, this David Ayer-directed movie completely forgets to have fun with its larger-than-life star. Favoring grit over all, 'Sabotage' is horribly po-faced, and while some viewers will enjoy the level of violence, it's the lack of fun-factor that sinks this one for me. It's a shame as there's even a pretty strong cast around Arnie, including Sam Worthington, Olivia Williams, Terrence Howard and Joe Manganiello. 'Sabotage' sees Schwarzengger play the leader of an elite DEA task force. His squad completes a raid on a safe house operated by one of the world's most dangerous drug cartels, and they opt to steal $10 million to keep for themselves. It seems like the perfect crime, but there's a turncoat in their midst as the members involved in the theft start being killed one by one. Conceptually, it's a neat idea, but the final result is very skippable. Watch "Sabotage" on Prime Video now (if you must)
Los Angeles Times
5 hours ago
- Los Angeles Times
Daniel Dae Kim hopes ‘Butterfly' can be the ‘KPop Demon Hunters' of spy thrillers
'Butterfly' is actor and producer Daniel Dae Kim's love letter to Korea and America. Launching Wednesday, Prime Video's South Korea-set spy thriller follows David Jung (Kim), a former U.S. intelligence operative who comes out of hiding to reunite with his daughter Rebecca (Reina Hardesty), a deadly agent who grew up believing he was dead. 'It's been my dream because it represents the two major parts of who I am,' says Kim during a video call in late July. 'I'm a Korean who was raised in America, and these are the two countries that I love. Why not try and bridge the two cultures? I'm uniquely suited to do that.' Based on the graphic novel series created by Arash Amel, Kim describes the show as 'a relationship drama' where 'the action and the conflicts come out of an emotional place.' 'One of the things that was really important to me about the conception of David is that I didn't want him to be someone that was not without flaws,' says Kim, who also serves as an executive producer on the series. 'A lot of his actions come from a place of pain. A lot of Rebecca's character arc emanates from a place of pain.' 'Butterfly' includes plenty of action — including hand-to-hand fights and shootouts — but it's the central family drama, as well as how it is reflected in the action scenes, that the show's co-creators Ken Woodruff and Steph Cha also tout. Rebecca's story in particular was one of the elements Woodruff immediately responded to when he first read the original comic book series. 'My parents got divorced when I was young … and my dad moved across the country and started a whole new family within a year or two,' Woodruff says. 'There was just this really palpable connection that I felt with Rebecca's relationship with her father because there's love there, but there's also animosity and resentment and jealousy. That really hooked me in.' Though the graphic novel takes place in Europe and America, Kim saw moving the story to South Korea and centering a Korean and Korean American family as an opportunity to bridge Hollywood and Korean entertainment. This meant advocating for top Korean actors to be cast — like Park Hae-soo, Kim Ji-hoon and Kim Tae-hee — and hiring a Korean director for a block of the episodes. 'Daniel really cared about bridging these two cultures and doing it in a very respectful way and really making sure that we got it right,' Woodruff says. 'At times, [in] different circumstances, his feet were really held to the fire and he did not blink. He'd really advocate for the Korean characters, making sure that those actors and their roles were as fleshed out and as interesting as every other character.' One of the things that stood out for Cha was just how much care Kim took to look after everyone working on the show. 'He is always very good about making sure that people feel included and valuable,' Cha says. 'He took it upon himself to make sure that the Korean cast felt welcome and well-integrated, and that the American cast was comfortable in Korea.' 'He has a lot of nunchi,' adds Woodruff about Kim's care for others, displaying some of the Korean language skills he picked up thanks to the Korean crew, whom the creators also credited for ensuring Korean culture was represented authentically on the show. Kim is just grateful for the shifts in the industry and mainstream culture that made a show like 'Butterfly,' which was shot in Korea and features a significant amount of Korean dialogue, possible. 'I don't think 'Butterfly' could have been made even 10 years ago,' says Kim. 'The change in philosophy, I think, is so significant in the kinds of stories that we get to tell now. [And] if we do our jobs right, there'll be many more just like us.' In a conversation edited for length and clarity, Kim discusses his new series, his approach to producing and the importance of using his platform. What was your process of discovering David? How did you come to understand him? It wasn't hard because I'm a father myself. I understood how difficult it can be to raise children and how our work often gets in the way of being a good dad. Sometimes we find ourselves in situations because of our work where we have to make difficult choices about our families. David made a choice that he felt was right but it ended up being the absolute wrong choice for his daughter — whether he's strong enough to face the consequences of that decision is really what the first season is about. How much pain can he tolerate because of the pain he inflicted on his daughter? And, to be honest, how selfish is he that he still wants his vision of a family, even though a choice that he made destroyed it? That seems like a different kind of father from the one you play in 'Avatar: The Last Airbender.' They're different. But for me, the core of it is the same: What does it mean to be a father guiding a young life and a young psyche? Ozai makes the choice where he needs his child to follow in his footsteps in terms of leadership and style. And if his child cannot do that, then his child fails. His priority is on the mission. I think for David, it might have been that to a lesser degree, but now he's realized that that's not the choice he wants. Can someone have a second chance at being a good dad? That, to me, is something that is very human. It's very universal. People say about the show, 'Well, it's shot in Korea. It's got an Asian lead and it's about an Asian family. I don't know if I can relate.' If you have children, or you've had parents, you can probably relate to what's going on in this show. 'Butterfly' captures a lot of nuance that tends to get lost in media where identities get flattened instead of conveying the different shades of experiences that encompasses being Korean, being Korean American, also while being in Korea. That's why it was important to me that Rebecca be half Asian because that's another part of the experience that we haven't explored fully yet. I look forward to that part of it because Rebecca is someone who's not only half American, half Asian — she's also someone without a mother and lost her father, or so she thought. For a lot of my childhood, being Asian American meant that I felt like I was between two worlds and a member of neither. But now I'm in a place in my career and as an artist where I can embrace both of those things and say I actually can speak authentically to both experiences, and not many people can do that. To me, that's very novel in the way we approach this show. I tried to do it with the amount of respect and love that I have for both cultures. You mention Rebecca, and that relationship is central to the show. What was it like establishing that dynamic with Reina Hardesty? We were so lucky to find Reina in the casting process. It's not easy to ask someone to go to Korea for six months, start training, do a lot of heavy action and find the emotional depths that are required for this character. It's a very challenging role. When she came aboard all of the producers just breathed a huge sigh of relief and were so excited because we felt, to your point, that now we have a show. You're often recognized as one of the people who have been paving the way for other Asian American artists in the industry. I stand on the shoulders of a lot of people who came before, and they may not have been as successful as I've been fortunate enough to be, but that's the way this works. People blaze a trail so that other people can walk down it without getting pricked by thorns. So for me, it's a parallel to my journey as a dad. My goal is to create a life for my children so that they do better than I've done. That they'd be better people, that they'd be more successful, they'd be better to others. I want that for us as Asian American artists. Even when we were struggling, there was a generation of us, like Joel de la Fuente and Will Yun Lee and Ron Yuan, who would call each other all the time when there were auditions. There were so few at the time that our philosophy was, if it's not me, I want it to be you. Quite frankly, given the way our society is today, I think we could all use a little bit more of that feeling — that we're all looking out for one another a little bit more than we have in the recent past. What has it been like to navigate these times, where the industry is contracting and people outside of it are increasingly vocal in speaking out against diversity and inclusion? It reminds me of that quote from Martin Luther King Jr.: 'The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.' Or, if you're more financially minded, you're going to have up days and down days in the market, but what you're looking for is the trend line. I'm hopeful that what we're experiencing right now is just a down day, and that we will continue to trend in the right direction. I really am confident that a lot more people understand what it is to think about our community as inclusive and not just a way where it's a bad word. But just to seek understanding of experiences other than your own. And that goes for everyone, not just the minority and majority politics. There's so many things I learn every day from people who are not like me and I just feel like that's a more interesting way to live, personally. As far as our community is concerned, we're better off now than we have ever been in terms of representation. But that doesn't mean that we are where we need to be. Some would say that that's a cop-out, this glass half full and half empty. But it is a question of perspective. For me, I choose to acknowledge and appreciate the strides that we've made, and also understand that there's still a ways to go, as you can see in today's news, when it comes to understanding one another and showing compassion for another's journey. If you think thematically about our show, it's really about bringing people together, bringing a family together, as a metaphor for our larger community. We can all have made mistakes. We can all have done things that we regret. But it doesn't mean that we can't try to rectify them and be better people. One of the biggest movies out right now is 'KPop Demon Hunters,' on which you had a voice role, Healer Han. What goes into your decision on joining a project like this? Have you been surprised at the reception? I always think about what the semiotics of a project are when I take it. What's the representation like? What's the character like? Who are the people doing it? What's the story? All these things go into the matrix of how I make these decisions. And 'KPop Demon Hunters' was a project in the same spirit as 'Butterfly.' It was taking a form of entertainment that's Korean but putting it into English to make it for Americans and the world outside of Korea. There were Korean Americans behind it, just like 'Butterfly.' I saw that when they asked me to do it, and it was an easy yes. But no one can ever tell what the impact of a project is going to be when you're making it. I did not expect this from 'KPop Demon Hunters,' but I sure had a good time voicing the role, and that was one of the reasons I did it too. I enjoy comedy, and when I do voice roles I get to do more of it so I leaned into it and thought this was a fun character. The 4-year-old in my life is obsessed with 'KPop Demon Hunters.' My entire social media feed is 'KPop Demon Hunters' right now. And I gotta say, watching the Korean K-pop stars embrace 'KPop Demon Hunters' was as meaningful to me as watching non-Koreans embrace it. Because very often in Korea, Korean American stories don't resonate, but now they're just starting to. Maybe 'Butterfly' can be a part of that, and Koreans will take note of Korean Americans as well as Americans taking note of Korean Americans. We've always been that middle group, and hopefully we'll be able to shine in the spotlight. What has it been like for you to see the explosive popularity of Korean entertainment — like K-pop and K-dramas — in the mainstream? First of all, I'm surprised, because I grew up at a time where no one even knew what being Korean was. When I was a kid, people would ask me, 'Are you Chinese?' I say no. And they say, 'Are you Japanese?' I say no. And they would say, 'Then, what are you?' There was that little awareness of Korea. When I was a kid, my friends would come to my house and they would see my mom making kimchi, and they would say, 'What is that stink?' But now, not only do people know what it is, but people are eating it, understanding the probiotic qualities that it has. It's part of our culture. It makes me swell with pride. I'm so happy for my kids that they don't even know what it feels like to be embarrassed because you're Korean. That's a good place to be. We've focused more on your acting work, but what does it mean for you to also take on the role of a producer in something like 'Butterfly'? As an actor, you're only able to participate in the projects that ask for you. We're always auditioning or hoping that a director likes us or a producer likes us or a studio likes us. But as a producer, you become the job creator, and I love the idea of creating opportunities for people. That's one of the reasons I started to produce in the first place. There was such a dearth that I thought, well, let me go upstream and figure out why there is such a shortage of roles. Well, it's because people aren't creating them, so why don't I try and start creating them. People like to think that my company [3AD] is just for Asian Americans, but it's not. It's really for all those on the margins. That's really the story that I want to tell as a producer. We've all heard the story of the high school party through the eyes of the jocks and the cheerleaders and the popular kids. But I want to hear the story of that same high school party from the people who snuck in or weren't even invited, or the ones who are sitting at home not at the party. What are those stories, because to me, they're the ones that haven't been told before. What was it like building the team you're working with on 'Butterfly'? Being a job creator means that you can identify not just actors that you want to work with, but also writers. I'm very proud of the fact that so much of our writing staff was Asian American, or had some intimate knowledge of Asian culture, specifically the Korean culture. We were able to hire a crew that was 100% Korean and also we achieved very close, if not a 50-50 balance between men and women on our crew. These kinds of things matter to me. I have such a level of respect for our showrunner, Ken Woodruff, because he's not Asian American but he highlights the fact that you don't have to be Asian American to be a good ally and to be a good partner. Ken has been incredibly respectful of what he doesn't know through this whole process, and has been very deferential when it comes to things like the culture of Korea and the way that being Korean affects these characters and the storylines. At the same time, he's been really good about leading the way in everything he's learned in his many years as a storyteller guiding the writers room. To me, it's the epitome of a good partnership. People talk about allyship; this is allyship in action. I don't know that I've ever worked with a better showrunner than Ken Woodruff, and I've been in this business for 30 years. You've also been vocal on issues that are important to you. Why are you motivated to speak out in that way? Because I'm a human being and because I'm a citizen. I think it's always better when you have an informed citizenry. That's not meant to say that only one side is right and the other is wrong. But I am a big believer in education. I'm a big believer in asking questions and it's something I try to do in my real life. Ask, when I see something going on in the world around me that seems unjust or objectionable, 'Why is that? How did it get that way?' I think we all are entitled to have our opinion and the more educated it is, and the more well researched it is, the stronger that opinion can be. People say, 'shut up and act' the way that they would tell athletes, 'shut up and dribble,' but no one says to a plumber, 'shut up and fix pipes.' Everyone who has a job also is a citizen, is a human being, is affected by the policies around us every day. Part of being in a democracy means making your voice heard so that we can affect change together. The journey of our show is how to reconcile two characters and their differences. Open dialogue, continuing to want to learn and being respectful, I think, are things that seem to be in short supply these days and it makes me a little sad. I'm hopeful that some of the stories that I get to tell can bring us together rather than divide us.
