‘Working with Kanye? That's definitely in the past': rap legends Clipse on beef, Bono and Mr Bean

The Guardian

2 days ago

The Birds Don't Sing [from new album Let God Sort Em Out] is an incredibly emotional track, especially for an album opener. What things did your parents say to you that make you proud and have stuck with you over the years? Fran_MMalice: Creating that song was a very emotional time and it cut real deep, but to be able to journal the grief from losing both our parents into a piece of art was also healing. I believe it's a song that is going to resonate with a lot of people, because whether we like it or not, most of us are going to end up outliving our parents. This is something always in the back of your mind, you know? Already, a lot of people are coming up to us on the street and saying: thank you, that song helped me to grieve. The Birds Don't Sing isn't just our story, it's everybody's story.
Pusha T: In hindsight I believe my mom was leaving breadcrumbs and doing all these little things in order to let us know she didn't have long left. She was mapping, planning and vocalising specific things before she passed away. It was her way of saying goodbye, you know? It was super important to detail all of that, because it gave me and my brother a sense of peace.
Malice: No doubt. In terms of specific things our parents said? Well, you know, my dad always instilled in us the idea that honesty is the best policy! That you have to go through life being as truthful as possible and to always try to show integrity in your character. I remember mom was always big on us truly being brothers and looking out for one another, no matter what. That advice still resonates to this day and with the energy of this album.
How did you guys develop your signature diction and wit as writers? MaximFlathMalice: Remember the movie Crooklyn by Spike Lee? The scene where all the brothers and sisters are watching Soul Train and American Bandstand? That was the perfect depiction of how musical our household was. By the time we moved to Virginia, I told my mom I wanted a microphone, a beat machine, a turntable, a Gemini mixer with the reverb on it. My mom literally forced my dad to buy it all for me, because he was much more dismissive at first and said things like: 'Why do you need all that? Rap ain't even gonna be here for that long, son!'
Pusha T: Music was always a big part of our upbringing. If I just think about our house then the living room was filled with hundreds of vinyls from all genres. That was the foundation. You know that I recently found all those records and got them back?
Malice: No, I didn't know that.
Pusha T: It was literally tons of vinyl. Look: if my parents would argue, someone would go downstairs and put a record on full volume to drown out the noise. Music was always the backdrop and there tended to be cousins dancing in our house. A specific rapping style? I always liked the energy of the old horror movies. Like The Omen and The Exorcist, where a lot of it is based on these eerie conversations and they didn't need special effects to scare you. People think gangster shit is supposed to be loud or obnoxious or ignorant, but to me the most gangster shit in the world is when you're having a really cutting conversation and looking directly into someone's eyes. To be able to embody a coldness without being over the top. Like Tony Soprano might smack somebody up, but the most gangster part is when he's just lucidly speaking to his therapist, you know? My rapping style is a lot like that, too.
Malice, you are a man of God and so am I; I'm a woman, actually. I love hip-hop, but sometimes the lyrics, imagery and messaging feels so spiritually off. How do you navigate that as a Christian? LoveFromLagosMalice: The gospel tells us about the war between the spirit and the flesh. It talks about these constant contradictions, and how helpless we all are as long as we are in this flesh. The flesh and the spirit are always at enmity with one another. So, we are all walking contradictions, right? The thing about morality is that you're only good until you're not. It's not supposed to be a juggling act: we all try to do the right thing, but there's going to be circumstances where we fall short. There is part of the scripture from the apostle Paul, who says: 'For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do – this I keep on doing. Who will rescue me from this body of death?' It shows that we are all sinners and we all fall short. That's what being human is all about.
And Pusha, you've been very candid about how things ended with Kanye's GOOD Music label. While I understand you went through a lot of challenges, can you mention some of the good times? LovefromLagosPusha T: Just as a rap aficionado, well, being there was special! Creating So Appalled and New God Flow were some of my favourite memories. The Good Friday series, that was crazy, too. The albums I dropped during that time, like Daytona and It's Almost Dry, they are very, very strong offerings. It goes without saying that me and Ye made great things together.
Do you think there'll ever be another collab between you and Ye? JooooooojPusha T: Yeah, that's in the past. That's definitely in the past. If I diss someone [Pusha T has criticised West in recent years], it's a very real thing to me. I watch other rappers use disses as a gimmick and shit like that, but that ain't what this is for me.
There is always a lot of humour and brilliant scene setting in your lyrics. Have you ever thought about writing a screenplay? HhhhssssMalice: Writing a screenplay for a Clipse biopic movie is a must. A lot of people would like to see that film. Right now, we're seeing rappers fall to the federal government or they're losing their lives because of drug addictions and out-of-control egos. But there's a lot to learn from our lives, especially the way me and my brother have navigated the pitfalls of the business and always tried to make the best possible decisions.
Who had the best verse on Let God Sort Em Out? BezosofthenasalsPusha T: I don't know if I have a personal favourite verse on the album to be honest, maybe it's my Ace Trumpets verse. I wish I had rapped what Malice said on Mike Tyson Blow to the Face: 'Only 300 bricks can make you Leonidas.'
Pusha, I think I saw you performing with Kelis when she supported U2 in 2001. What was your experience of those shows? SharmadelicaPusha T: U2 were so fucking cool, man! I remember it was a super big deal to be touring with them at that time, and it was one of my first real experiences on a big stage. For U2, tour life is about five-star catering; runners who will go grab you whatever you ask for; and random vans that will take you anywhere in the city. These dudes had manicures, pedicures, massages! Touring with U2 seriously fucked up my expectations, bro. Because when you go out and tour for real as a rapper, the reality can be a very gruelling thing.
Malice: Wait, hold up, can I share my own Bono interaction? I met him backstage around the time I converted from Malice to No Malice and found God. I remember Bono said to me: 'You have this righteous anger now and you have to go do something with it!' That always stuck with me. It kind of gave me the green light, and what Bono said is always in the back of my mind around not abandoning my convictions. Bono is a good dude.
What are each of your favourite albums of all time? FionnmckMalice: Listen, I love the Killers, I love the Red Hot Chili Peppers, even Billy Joel! When I work out in the gym, I have Coldplay playing, or U2's The Joshua Tree. It's funny, because when I watched MTV back in the 1980s, David Bowie was always on there. All these years later and Bowie is still at the forefront today. I think that says something about true talent and how it can carry on through the ages. It even outlasts your death.
Pusha T: I'm always torn between Mobb Deep's The Infamous, Raekwon's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt, and Biggie's Life After Death. I can drive anywhere in the world with those four albums and I will be happy.
Have you watched much British TV/film? If so, what have you liked and why? Jajones7Pusha T: [Loud laughter] Definitely Benny Hill! Benny was running around with women on late night TV! My older brother was always watching him, laughing, and I would sneak in. And what's my other man called … um, Rowan Atkinson? Mr Bean, right? That dude was ill.
Do you still write your rhymes? If so, do you prefer handwritten, typing on the phone, or both? Do you have any particular rituals when writing or recording? WzrdwthwrzfMalice: For me it's about building a verse line-by-line throughout the day. It might start off in the shower, continue while I am driving, and then when I get to the studio I put it all together. It is always pen and paper with a pristine notebook. If I mess up on the writing, I am gonna rip out the page and start over.
Pusha T: I can only write things down to be honest, because I am a very visual person. I don't know how to do the whole spontaneous freestyle thing, because I am always second guessing myself. I am a perfectionist and so that involves editing a lot. I might come up with a good bar, but I will keep going back to it and working out how to make it fresher.
What can we expect from the duo in the future? Is this the end? CClarke2005Pusha T: We've definitely got more music in store, baby.
Malice: [Laughs knowingly] Nah, we got it. We've definitely got it!
Let Got Sort Em Out is out now on Roc Nation. Clipse's US tour continues until 10 September. They play the O2 Kentish Town Forum, London, on 9, 12 and 13 November and the O2 Victoria Warehouse, Manchester, on 10 November