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Medics objecting to Sandie Peggie's return warned of culpability, tribunal told

Medics objecting to Sandie Peggie's return warned of culpability, tribunal told

Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023.
She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'.
Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation.
The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February.
On Monday, service manager Charlotte Myles, who made a decision to lift the suspension on March 7, told the tribunal that two senior consultants and two senior nurses 'weren't happy' at her decision to allow Ms Peggie to return to work.
Ms Myles said that Dr Kate Searle and Dr Maggie Currer both objected to her decision, while senior nurse managers Esther Davidson and Louise Curran 'similarly expressed' objections, but were not able to give an 'accurate response' regarding alleged patient safety concerns.
She said she told Ms Peggie verbally on March 7 and in writing on March 12 that the suspension would be lifted. However, it was later reinstated due to issues with looking after the nurse's dog, and she returned to work around April 12 2024.
Ms Myles said that 'usually we don't like to suspend' and she believed there were no patient safety issues, the tribunal heard.
However she said that she 'wasn't impressed' by allegations made by senior medics and warned them to comply with correct protocols and policies.
Ms Myles said: 'When I explained to staff members they weren't particularly happy with my decision initially.'
She said she visited Dr Searle's office to co-ordinate a rota and was met with further objections, but warned the consultant she was 'culpable' if allegations were not reported correctly, the tribunal heard.
Ms Myles said: 'Kate Searle expressed unhappiness that we were taking Ms Peggie back into the workplace and made a comment saying there had been patient safety issues, there had been other behaviours towards a doctor. I asked if this had been investigated and reported appropriately, and she said no.
'I said that if these events had happened and they had not been reported, you were culpable.'
She added: 'They weren't happy but it was my sole responsibility to review the suspension. My primary concern is to make sure patients are getting seen.'
The witness said she did not know 'what the indicators were… to be suspended in the first place' and felt there 'was no risk', the tribunal heard.
Ms Myles said: 'I wasn't impressed; if someone wants to raise patient safety concern it should go through correct process and be escalated at the time the incident happened. My stance was: 'If you have not followed correct protocol and policy you are culpable'.'
She said that Ms Davidson alleged that a doctor had been subject to a racist slur by Ms Peggie, and branded allegations by Ms Curran that the nurse shared Donald Trump's views on gender 'tittle-tattle', the tribunal heard.
Ms Myles said: 'It was very similar, tittle-tattle of being a supporter of Donald Trump and sharing his views on gender. That's somebody's personal view and as long as it doesn't impact on workforce or patients or cause harm, people are entitled to have their private views.'
She said she perceived Dr Upton to be 'a female colleague', but said: 'I do believe we should make alterations to support everybody, but how we do it is completely out of my remit.'
During re-examination by Jane Russell KC, representing NHS Fife and Dr Upton, the witness was asked about the alleged comments.
Ms Myles said: 'I was told Sandie Peggie had called a member of the medical team a P**i but that was not reported formally; when I asked Esther which member of the team it was directed at, it took a while to get a response. I believe the person who was supposed to have had the comment directed at them doesn't recall the comment being directed at them.'
Judge Alexander Kemp asked if she had seen a previous risk assessment for suspending Ms Peggie, and the witness said she had not, despite asking for previous documentation prior to March 7.
The tribunal continues.
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Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
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Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.

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Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.

Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
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South Wales Guardian

time9 hours ago

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Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'

Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.

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