Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'.
Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation.
The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February.
On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard.
Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'.
She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not.
Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.'
She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard.
On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard.
Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.'
She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard.
She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together.
Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy.
'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.'
She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard.
She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard.
Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.'
She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.'
Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?'
Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.'
She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.'
The tribunal continues.
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Emails between witnesses discussing an investigation into a gender critical nurse who was suspended following a dispute with a transgender doctor 'should not have been written', a consultant told a tribunal. Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. 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I was suggesting ways that you might manage a situation when two parties are uncomfortable. 'We would have discussed, if Dr Upton felt very uncomfortable and it was affecting them in coming to work, then it would have been appropriate to take it further, whether it's just a discussion between parties to say how can we work through this together, with compassion and kindness and to make sure everyone is safe.' Cunningham put it to Searle that Peggie was clearly feeling uncomfortable with sharing facilities with Upton, after being told about the two occasions in which the nurse self-excluded from female changing rooms. The lawyer asked: 'What steps did you take to offer her any compassion or kindness?' Searle replied: 'I didn't make that approach.' Meanwhile, Searle was also confronted with emails between witnesses involved in the investigation into Peggie's conduct. An email sent on January 5, 2024, stated that 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome — it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'.' Searle said 'in hindsight we should not have written these things' but denied deliberately attempting to 'conceal the wrongdoing of colleagues.' The email had not been provided initially in disclosures of evidence by NHS Fife. The tribunal continues.
