Smash star Brooks Ashmanskas on audiences, reviews and playing gay men
Smash has earned him a Tony nomination (his third) in the category of Best Featured Actor in a Musical, but his character, Nigel, is many ways the show's central role. That in itself is remarkable, especially on the heels of his leading performance in 2018's The Prom as Barry Glickman, a vain actor on a misguided mission to enlighten midwestern homophobes. The kind of person Ashmanskas has mastered playing—a gay man who is highly theatrical but not a drag queen—has long been relegated to the margins; it is a sign of changing times, but also of Ashmankas's prodigious skills, that this type can now be trusted to hold center stage. The actor deserves more credit for that than he has received (or than, ever self-effacing, he would probably accept): It is partly thanks to the strength and the brilliant colors that he brings to it, and has brought to it for decades, that the once-humble pansy has come to full flower on Broadway. We chatted with him recently about Smash and other highlights of his career.
In advance of the Tony Awards on June 8, Time Out has conducted in-depth interviews with select nominees. We'll be rolling out those interviews every day this week; the full collection to date is here.
How did you get involved in Smash?
The writers contacted me, so it was simple; I just answered a phone call and said, 'Yeah, of course!' I had worked with Bob Martin before, and I had known Rick Elice for years, and I love both of them, so it was an easy yes. This was right when the pandemic was opening up a little bit, and they had written this musical version of Smash. There was no director yet—it was just to see what they had, basically, for the producers and people like that. It was maybe two days: We got together one day and then read it for them the next day. Basically, they handed it to me—which was foolish, I thought, but even more foolish was that they stayed with me over the years as we developed the project to where it is now.
You match the role so perfectly, though. It feels like it was written for you.
I think maybe it became that way. I really don't know if they were thinking that initially. But once I was doing it, you could tell—in the rewrites that would come, and the things that we would collaborate on—that they were very open throughout the process. Even when [director Susan] Stroman and the rest of the creative team joined in, they were all so great about it. They weren't very precious about anything; we just all wanted to make the best, most entertaining show possible. So if I came up with something in a rehearsal and it worked, we would keep it in.
I've been thinking a lot lately about an underexplored phenomenon in musical theater: the degree to which the original cast can stamp itself in the DNA of a piece that's being developed—how the piece eventually gets frozen and the role ends up reflecting the strengths and style of whoever played it originally.
I think it depends on the writers and the other people in charge. It's not even about them being too limiting; it's just how they're running the show. If they're really trying to honor what the writer's initial intentions were, and sticking to what they wrote as the Bible—and that's not necessarily a bad thing—it would be less so, other than just putting their words through your own filter. To some degree it's always going to be you as well. But with most of the things I've worked on, and certainly new work, it has been a relatively, if not wildly, collaborative effort. It has to be: It's such a collaborative medium. There are so many things that have to come together and hopefully it's on the same page.
And you have a certain persona as an actor—in the roles you tend to play and the way that you tend to play them. When you have a strong personal style, maybe that has the potential to make a stronger stylistic impression on the piece.
Yeah, but especially on Broadway, because there's so much money at stake, a lot of that depends on what you're allowed to do or what you're asked to do. Not that I'm like, 'Oh, I have a lot of range'—Who cares? Everyone does. But if I'm not doing a Broadway show, which I'm often not, I go work somewhere else, and if you look at the stuff I've done regionally, it's a much more rangy situation. I'm not always asked to be the silly and perhaps effeminate comic. But that's what I'm asked to do on Broadway, and why would anyone say no to doing a Broadway show? I've been very pleased and very fortunate to be able to do it.
And to do it a lot! You did two musicals this year on Broadway, which is very rare.
Insane. It never works out that way, but this time it did. It was just timing. It was great. Because after The Prom was the pandemic, and I wasn't lucky enough to be on Broadway for quite a while. Which is five years ago, almost six now. Which is crazy.
In fairness, though, for a lot of that time Broadway wasn't happening at all.
Right, exactly. It couldn't go on without me. [ Laughs.]
The musical version of Smash is so different from the TV show—it's much closer to 42nd Street now, with Nigel as a gay Julian Marsh. Your character in The Prom, Barry, was another theater queen of a roughly similar type. To you, what distinguishes them from each other?
That certainly crossed my mind even when we were first reading Smash —and one of the writers also wrote The Prom, so of course the similarities are there. But there's something about Nigel in Smash that's much darker than Barry was. Barry was just a big-hearted, loving guy who happened to be gay and funny, hopefully, but Nigel is a much more troubled character, and he is certainly troubled by what happens to him and his production throughout the piece. That's what I tried to glom onto: the put-upon-ness of the character in the situations he has found himself in, and how he goes about using the tools he has, which are usually his sense of humor.
He also seems so much more competent than Barry.
I think so, definitely. Dee Dee, Beth Leavel's character in The Prom, was a two-time Tony winner, and she carried Barry with her. And he had a Drama Desk that was kind of half broken. Even though he was a successful actor, he was not as successful. Whereas Nigel is Casey Nicholaw or Susan Stroman—he's someone who has worked a lot as a big-time director of Broadway musicals.
And in The Prom, Barry creates his own mess, but Nigel is the only one working on Bombshell who has a real possibility of fixing it in some way.
Exactly. And it turns out that he's right. He's saying, Let's make this bright and celebratory. We can't go too deep with this show. We can't go down the road of having her die at the end and all that dark stuff.
Ironically, that's part of the challenge of making Smash into a musical at all, out of the existing material. The songs are great, but they're also partly tongue-in-cheek so it's hard to imagine the musical-within-a-musical that they come together to create.
It's a delicate road. Like, are we to believe that this actress can do 18 numbers? But tone-wise, I think the way in which the songs are presented—only in rehearsal or in a performance situation, until the very end—keeps the show about the process. It's not really about Bombshell. It's about these people trying to put on a show. It's 42nd Street. It's The Bandwagon.
One thing that's striking for me about your roles in both The Prom and Smash is that characters like them have been around for generations, but previously as decidedly supporting characters—the nellie, the nance. But in these two shows, they're the central characters.
Yes! Very much so, and I think that's a good thing. I would even go further to say that—mostly because I'm the one who's played them—they're also not the leading man–looking type of person, either. I'm of a certain age, I have a certain type of physique. This is what I look like. And isn't that wonderful? [ Laughs.] But I think that's also something great about that. Some of the response I've gotten, during The Prom and even now this, from people my age or older who see a sort of representation—I never saw that coming. These older gay guys who are like, 'Oh my God, when I was growing up, if I had a Barry or a Nigel, to see that kind of representation and that kind of humor.' And I think that's a good thing. I do.
Oh, I do too. These conversations so often get reduced to the question of whether characters are good role models or something, whether they're inspirational. And I think that's the wrong way to look at it. It's just that they're there, and they're human beings. The fact that they are not perfect is better.
I agree, that's what representation is. And you see it reduced. There is not a conversation that does not get reduced now—everything is reduced to something without degrees, unfortunately I think. That's why I bring up how I look or how old I am as a leading character in a show. It's lovely in that it opens up degrees for viewing, conversation, response, whatever.
Just the fact of it is significant.
I think that's what I mean, too. The fact of it is good. Whether you hate it or love it, who cares? It's there. It's about the fact of it.
You're giving one of my favorite performances of the year in this show. I'm also talking this week to Justina Machado, who's fantastic in Real Women Have Curves—
And she's fabulous, too. Her fabulousness comes through. I love when that happens—it just all works.
I'm bracketing these two performances together because they're a kind of masterful musical-comedy performance where everything is funny and the audience is so with you that you can take your time or go faster or whatever you want because you have full control of the room.
Which is great. It's so important with comedy, because if you don't have control—if you're not conducting the orchestra of the audience—it's not going to work. They don't get to do it. And if they do, it's trouble. Again, I have to go to the writing: When you have a piece that's written in a way that makes you capable of orchestrating the room, it's a gift. It makes it more fun, and easier—even when it's hard, it's easier. It's a real gift, this kind of role. It doesn't come around often.
How much does the audience response vary from performance to performance? I've been onstage a fair amount and that's still so mysterious to me.
Yeah. If we knew how to figure that out, we'd follow that formula and there would be nothing but hits going on. I talk about it all the time, too much probably—backstage, even during the show. The short answer is that it's wildly different every show. You do a Wednesday, for instance, when probably it's a little older out there and a little quieter. And it's not that they're not enjoying it—they just don't want to let you know that. But then on Wednesday night, you're giving the same basic performance and they won't stop screaming with laughter. So I have to believe it is the molecular structure of the room. It can't just be them, and it can't just be me. It is just what is going on. And so there's no way to pre-prepare in a way, other than knowing what you're doing. And it's a surprise every moment.
And you can't get too nervous or too in your head about what the response is, especially in comedy. That's something I admire so much in people who can be funny on stage, which is something that I usually can't do.
People ask all the time, 'How do you do it eight times a week? How do you do a long run? Don't you want to put a gun in your mouth?' And of course, the answer is yes, sometimes. But the truth of it is, that's what keeps it interesting, or even keeps you awake during it. I can do it hundreds of times, but every single time I'm trying to figure it out: Like, I know that this line over here has to get a laugh. So if they're not where they need to be to get to that place, we gotta get 'em there! And that's what makes it interesting and athletic in a way, and tiring and tiresome, but also inspiring and fun. It's everything.
And you're doing it within a quite regimented structure of existing writing and blocking. So you have limited tools. If you're doing a standup comedy, you can feel things out or chop things up as needed when you feel the energy moving.
Yeah, it's limiting. But it also makes it all that more important to be open to having to do it a different way every single time. Which is hard and scary and vulnerable and all that stuff, but you have to be open to that or it's not gonna work.
I just did an interview with Jessica Hecht —
That bitch! [ Laughs.] I love Jessica so much. I've worked with her a number of times and it just brightens up my life every time I see her. She's a wildly unique individual. A totally free person on stage and in life, but she's also very careful. I mean that in a good way, not in a yucky way. She's full of care in what she's saying and what she's doing. I love it.
Same! But anyhow, we went through some of her past Broadway experiences as I'd be curious to do that with you too, if you don't mind. Your first show was almost 30 years ago in the Matthew Broderick revival of How to Succeed, right?
Yes, I replaced as Bud Frump. I didn't do it originally. But I felt a connection to it even when I was auditioning—and the director, Des McAnuff, really got what I did and supported it, which was lovely. That's not always the case, especially then, because nobody knew who I was to any degree. So that was very comforting. And Wayne Cilento, the choreographer—you'd never know it now, but when I was young, I was a dancer. Mostly tap, but I did a lot of dancing. And I think Wayne was surprised that this funny guy who was doing this role could do this dancing. I know he really pushed for me to get that part. It was hard, because it was quick. I was young and was a big part—the bad guy of that show in a way—and I only had five or six days to learn it, so it was scary. I can't even remember my opening night of that show. There was one section where I was all alone on stage in the lights, and I had an out-of-body experience—I didn't know what I was doing. But I did it. It was very exciting, and it was certainly a huge moment for me.
Was Matthew still in it at that point?
He had gone off to make a movie—I think it was The Cable Guy— so he had a break, and John Stamos replaced him. There was a week between John Stamos and Matthew coming back, and that's when I went in, at the same time as the woman who was going to play Rosemary, the female lead, who was a girl named Sarah Jessica Parker. This was before they got married. And so we had a week with the understudy, the wonderful John Bolton, and we rehearsed with Matthew a couple times during that week. And then we all did it together for the last six or seven months of the show.
I would love to have seen the two of you do The Producers. I feel like that would've been an interesting mix.
Wow, yeah. I love working with Matthew. I would drop everything to work with him. We've done a couple shows along the way, and I just adore him. I adore both of them.
You did do The Producers eventually, but as Carmen Ghia.
I did, and by that time, Matthew was out. It was years after it opened. I went in with Jonathan Freeman as Roger, who I also did How to Succeed with. Those were the only two times I replaced. I don't know if I'm always the best at that—I might be a little too individual sometimes, and that can be tricky, honestly, for people who have an existing show like The Producers, which was a huge smash. That machine was going. It's like Hamilton today: If you go into Hamilton, it's like, 'That bullet goes there,' you know? You have to fit in. I'm not sure I'm the best at that, but I did the best I could.
There's a patch there— The Producers, Gypsy, Little Me —where you track seems to be a certain kind of snotty or ineffectual assistant.
The second banana. As we were talking about earlier with Smash, that sort of put-upon quality is something I trained well for. Especially in Little Me, where every character I played, Martin Short was just screaming at me—'Rararararararararar'—and I'd just be like, 'Yes, father' or whatever.
But then you got to do Martin Short: Fame Becomes Me.
Yes. When we did Little Me, we became friendly very quickly, so Marty's show came about because of our relationship, and because we knew we worked well together. Marty's been a formidable person in my life—mostly as a friend, but he's also a parental, mentor-y kind of guy. He's very smart and wildly funny, obviously, and so sweet on stage, so generous. That really proved true on Fame Becomes Me. It was his show, but he let the rest of us who were in it shine. He needed that. He was very bright about that. And that show was a great, fun thing to do.
And then came Bullets Over Broadway, which ended up a little bit of—
—a miss.
Not for everyone. My colleague David Cote, for example, liked it very much at the time. But it was hard to compete with a movie that was so memorable and successful.
I agree. It had a lot going against it that maybe I didn't realize as we were going along. And I think people had a problem with the fact that there wasn't an original score. But I loved being a part of it. I loved that group of people and it was a great part. During the workshop and rehearsals and previews, it was like, 'This is a hit!' And then we opened and—bomb. You could tell by the audience response the day after we opened. It's the only time I've experienced that. I don't think that it was a bomb, but it closed very quickly. Sadly. I loved doing it—it was a really fun show to do. But it just didn't connect.
I have a complex relationship to this issue, needless to say, but I know that negative reviews can sometimes take the wind out of a show's sails. For the audience, at least, if not for the performers.
I'm a little weird about reviews. I really am able to take them with a grain of salt. Obviously, on a personal level, it's nice when someone says nice things and it's not so lovely when they loathe you. But you can't give—no offense—you can't give it that much power. When you see a show, that's your day, your opinion, your unique evening. These things can't be taken as the gospel, end-all truth.
No offense taken! I totally agree.
So I don't have a problem with reading reviews. It also depends on one's investment in the piece. The Prom is a great example. We worked on that for almost a decade before it barely got to Broadway, so I was curious—just as someone who spent so much time on it—how it was received. And I was very pleased overall that people liked it and got the heart of it. But it's mostly about curiosity, from my point of view.
I get that. I read what people say about me on the rare occasions that people say things about me, and I often find that frustrating, because it always seems to get something wrong. I don't just mean I disagree, I mean it's factually wrong.
Absolutely. Even a good review, Adam, is sometimes…I mean, if I'm gonna be fully honest, which I am, even some of the nice things that were said about me in this performance I'm giving now are not the nice things I want them to say. You know, it's lovely and it's terrific, but it's also, like, ' That's what it is to them?' That kind of feeling.
One show that I really liked that you were in, and that I wish had had a longer run, is Shuffle Along.
Yeah, me too. Just the best. The subject matter of the piece, how it was presented—I just thought it was gold. And the process couldn't have been more lovely. Everyone was so wonderful and I'd been fans or friends with all of them for years; I'm such a fan of George [C. Wolfe]'s work, and to be able to work with him on that was a highlight of my life. Not to mention being the sole white person in that show: The experience of that, of being the minority for a change, was invaluable. So yes, I'm sorry that it didn't run longer as well—deeply sorry, because that's one I would like to still be doing. But it was great, honestly, that it happened at all and that I was allowed to be a part of it. I'll take those couple of months.
Sometimes there are just those heartbreakers. One of my first great disappointments as a critic—a show I really loved that didn't get the response it deserved—was another George C. Wolfe show, Caroline, or Change. Which to this day is one of my very favorite musicals.
Absolutely. Me, too. So great. On a list of the great shows of your life, as an audience member, that would be one of, like, five shows. But the thing about Shuffle Along is that that was a once-in-a-lifetime staging. I can't imagine it being done in high schools or regional theaters. It would be way too expensive. It was that group of people—it could only be those people, and mostly George. So it closed on Broadway and that's it. And the thing that hurts even more about Shuffle Along not having a longer life is that it was all about trying to say, 'These people should be remembered, but nobody knows this show because they were Black.' And what the show was saying came true again, in a way.
But on the bright side: Thousands of people did get to see it who wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
Yes. It happened. It happened, and that's incredible. In a way, that any show can happen on Broadway is incredible. It's a victory.
Hashtags
Try Our AI Features
Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:
Comments
No comments yet...
Related Articles
Metro
4 hours ago
- Metro
I had a luxe London trip on discount codes — with £30 theatre and £26 Hawksmoor
London rightly has a reputation as one of the most expensive cities in the world. That's fair enough, particularly when it comes to rent and mortgages. And yes, going out can also make a serious dent to your bank balance. But if you're a money saver, I think living or visiting the capital offers far more potential to cut other costs than anywhere else in the UK. And that doesn't require scrimping or thifting, nor does it mean missing out on some of the nicer things. Don't believe me? Here are some highlights from a few days I've just spent in London. With so many restaurants, there are also many ways to get really good food for less. One I took advantage of was a special menu at steak mini-chain Hawksmoor available at lunch, pre and post-theatre. The Slice is your weekly guide to what's happening in London, so if you're looking for restaurant reviews, drinks deals or just a great new exhibition to visit on a rainy Saturday in the capital, we've got you covered. Click here for this week's edit of the best things to do in town. The Slice newsletter also a brand new look! We'll still be in your inbox every week, bringing you all the very best things to eat, drink and do in the capital. So if you want get the next edition before anyone else, sign up here! If you want to do it all on the cheap, you can also find our latest batch of exclusive hand-picked offers in partnership with Time Out here. The hake and sweet potato main was delicious and sizeable and a happy hour glass of rose hit the spot. Stacking an American Express 10% cashback offer on top of this special menu, I paid just £26 including service. An hour later and the same meal would have set me back £42. Adding extra courses included in the offer would have increased the saving even more, but there wasn't any point spending more when I was full enough. And good news for non-Londoners, it also has locations with the same offer in Manchester, Liverpool and Edinburgh. It's no wonder there are frequent op-eds decrying how expensive West End theatre tickets are. The seat I had for matinee performance of the Broadway transfer of the Tony-winning Stereophonic was listed at £150. The row in front was priced at a staggering £250. However, I paid just £30, saving £120. That was thanks to the 'Rush ticket' feature on the app TodayTix. It's effectively a lottery on the day of the performance to fill empty seats. There's no guarantee you'll get a ticket, or that you'll get one of the top priced seats, so I was lucky. And though I don't agree with some of the rave reviews, for £30 it was an enjoyable way to spend an afternoon. I managed to see a decent comedy show for just a tenner thanks to Central Tickets. The rules of websites like this are I can't say what I saw, but my seat should have cost £47.90 if I'd gone direct to the box office. I love a good gig, and managed to see two performances on my trip. The biggest bargain was an in-store from all-girl punk group Panic Shack at Rough Trade East, just off Brick Lane. For £16.06 I not only got access to an intimate gig, but also a copy of their new CD. Dates for their tour later this year start at £20 before fees, so throw in the album on top and I think it was at least a 50% saving. This way to save isn't just limited to London, but I used a free ticket to finally see Danny Boyle's latest movie 28 Years Later at the Vue Leicester Square. More Trending There are a few ways I get these, from opening up a Club Lloyds current account to a perk from Vitality health insurance, but this one was actually a freebie given away by my energy provider Octopus earlier in the year. Since weekend showings are often more expensive than others, using this on a Saturday saved me £13.99. Finally, travel. Yep the tube and trains are pricey, especially compared to other metro systems in other countries. The daily cap on card payments will help people moving around a lot, but I managed to beat this on my first day – and that was by adding a Travelcard to my inbound rail ticket. This added £5.60 to my fare, versus a £8.90 limit on Zone 1-2 travel with my debit card. And I knocked another 10% off that thanks to an offer for train ticket seller LNER via my American Express card. Total saving:£203.81. Total spent: £77.10. View More » MORE: Westminster Cathedral turned into drug dealer haven with 'cocaine sold on pews' MORE: Murder manhunt after woman in 20s killed outside Romford care home MORE: 'The worst show on TV' might finally be ending and viewers are surprisingly sad Your free newsletter guide to the best London has on offer, from drinks deals to restaurant reviews.
Time Out
11 hours ago
- Time Out
The biggest superhero movie of the year has suddenly hit streaming – here's how to watch
Look! Up on the TV screen! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Superman! Only five weeks after its theatrical release, James Gunn's reboot of DC Comics' most legendary superhero is now available for streaming. Normally, the quick move to video on demand would indicate poor box office performance, but Superman is a certified hit, grossing $500 million worldwide to date. Instead, Gunn says the move was strategic, to give audiences the chance to watch before the premiere of Season 2 of The Peacemaker on HBO – and if you've seen the film, you'll recognise the connection to the series. In addition to being the highest-grossing superhero movie of the year, Superman was also a critical hit: it currently holds an 83 percent Fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. In a mixed review, TimeOut praised David Corenswet's performance as the Last Son of Krypton, praising the 'lovely balance of sweetness, strength and self-doubt bubbling beneath the surface' he brings to the role. And we mustn't forget Krypto the superdog, 'a sidekick whose lack of proper training and licky nature makes him a menace to foes and friends alike.'
Times
17 hours ago
- Times
Catherine Zeta-Jones: ‘This is a new chapter'
'T here was never any question that I was going to be in showbusiness,' says Catherine Zeta-Jones, the girl who left Wales aged nine to appear on the West End stage in Annie, who won an Oscar for her appearance as a high-kicking murderess in the film Chicago and a Tony for her turn in A Little Night Music on Broadway. We are talking over Zoom, Zeta-Jones lavishly glamorous in a vintage YSL shirt, a gold and diamond Cartier watch, fat diamond studs in her ears, full make-up and a huge arrangement of orchids as a backdrop. But the razzle-dazzle is all part of the performance — because then she smiles and lifts up her leg to show me her off-duty white fluffy slippers (she has been dancing since she was four and remains impressively limber). 'I am actually in my sweatpants,' she says. 'I've been on set since 6am.' Now 55, Zeta-Jones is enjoying a professional renaissance. 'It's a new chapter. It's what I have been craving. Variety.' Her new projects are certainly varied. She is currently in Bilbao making the Amazon series Kill Jackie, in which she portrays a former cocaine kingpin turned art dealer whose past foes are out to murder her. 'I'm playing a Welsh woman, speaking in my own accent for the first time. It's really empowering, as an actor it frees me up,' she says. I ask if she's had to ramp up the Welsh; she has lived in America for the past three decades and has been married to the American actor Michael Douglas for almost 25 years. Her accent is a peculiar melange — in one sentence she pronounces 'route' three different ways. 'No, it just comes back, all the nuances,' she insists, reeling off some Welsh lingo. She is also in a forthcoming indie film with Natalie Portman called The Gallerist — 'a lovely little jewel of a part,' she says. But the most high-profile of Zeta-Jones's latest projects is Tim Burton's Wednesday, in which she plays Morticia Addams opposite Jenna Ortega as the titular goth anti-heroine, whose deadpan nihilism has become a cultural phenomenon. The first series, which came out in 2022, is the most-viewed English language show on Netflix. Zeta-Jones's appearance in that season was brief but impactful; she perfectly conjured Morticia's smouldering hauteur and otherworldly amorality. 'When Tim called me about the first season, before I even saw a script, I said, 'I'm in.' To play Morticia Addams in Tim Burton's world … It was just magic.' Burton, it seems, was equally spellbound. 'I've been a fan of hers for a long time,' he says over the phone. 'It's the Addams family, so it's usually pretty over the top, but we also wanted to give it an emotional resonance and Catherine's just very good at doing that, delivering something heightened, but also tapping into those real emotions.' There is ample opportunity for this in the second series, in which Morticia's character has been expanded. 'Tim really wanted to incorporate the family into the show,' Zeta-Jones says. So Morticia and Gomez Addams (played by Luis Guzmán) have relocated to Nevermore Academy to help plan a gala and keep an eye on their children; mysteries are multiplying, macabre beasts are being unleashed and Thing's loyalties are being tested — even when acting opposite a disembodied hand, Zeta-Jones's Morticia is compelling. As in the first series, there are plenty of devilish pranks and gory murders, but the most high stakes moments are those in which mother and daughter enter into emotional combat. 'That is the crucial dynamic,' Burton explains. In one scene Morticia and Wednesday have a night-time duel, fencing foils flashing (Zeta-Jones fans will be reminded of the famous fight scene in her breakout role opposite Antonio Banderas in The Mask of Zorro in 1998). 'I got to bend into the comedy and the emotion, the vulnerability,' Zeta-Jones says. 'Morticia is like all of us. We're strong, but we're vulnerable.' And she has nothing but praise for her co-star Ortega. 'When we first met I didn't know who she was. It took me one moment on set to work out who she was going to be. It was very clear that she was a phenomenon. I mean, forget the show, just her as a young woman, as an actress, the way she is. She has a smart head on her shoulders.' Leather Trench coat, £12,332, Gabriela Hearst. Shoes, £635, Aquazurra. White gold and diamond earrings, pendant and ring (left hand), prices on application, and ring (right hand), £8,600, De Beers. White gold and diamond necklace, £144,000, and ring (right hand), £45,500, Boucheron JAMES D KELLY Shirt, £350, Ami Paris. Coat, £1,295, Joseph. Yellow gold and diamond necklace, £25,100, and white gold and diamond ring, £3,840, Messika. Rose gold and diamond bracelet, £54,800, Chaumet. Panthère de Cartier yellow gold and diamond watch, £49,700, and yellow gold ring, £2,410, Cartier JAMES D KELLY Top, £1,215, Etro. Jacket, £2,700, and skirt, £1,590, Stella McCartney. Silver earrings, £139, and cuff, £199, Jewells. Gold and silver ring set, £200, Demarson JAMES D KELLY Ortega's trajectory, a child actress who was launched to stardom, aged 20, via her role in Wednesday, mirrors that of Zeta-Jones. She was 21 when she appeared in the The Darling Buds of May, a bucolic vision of 1950s England, in which she played the ravishing Mariette, captivating the country the moment she appeared on screen — it was one of the most-watched TV shows in the UK at the time. 'I went to sleep on a Sunday night, when I woke up, everybody knew who I was,' she says. • Wednesday series 2 review: Jenna Ortega's a gothic hoot But really, Catherine Zeta-Jones was always a star. She was raised in Mumbles, a seaside town in Swansea. Her mother was a seamstress and her father worked in a sweet factory, which he eventually bought, following a £100,000 win on the bingo, the money also helped to fund dancing lessons for Zeta-Jones. 'It feels like a very precocious thing, and I don't know where it comes from, but I'd say it out loud, 'I want to be on the stage.' I was a bit of a prodigy,' she says. She would come to London, queue for auditions and, if she was rejected, change her leotard, put her hair up in a ponytail and try again. Her hero was Elizabeth Taylor. 'To me she represented Hollywood. And there was also the Welsh connection with Richard Burton, the scandal of their love, the craziness, it was part of my upbringing. Right after I finished Annie at the Victoria Palace, she was in The Little Foxes at the same theatre. So, one matinee, I stood outside the stage door with a bunch of daffodils. I waited and I waited for her to come, and when she arrived I remember saying to her, 'Would you take your sunglasses off, so I can see your violet eyes?' And she said, 'It's way too early in the morning for that.' I didn't care, she took my daffodils and gave me a beautiful hug.' There have been extraordinary strokes of luck in Zeta-Jones's life, and not just the bingo win. When she was 17 she was in the chorus of 42nd Street, at the Theatre Royal Drury Lane, and the second understudy for the lead role of Peggy Sawyer. The night she was called upon to play the part the producer, David Merrick, was in the audience and was so impressed that he gave it to her. The French director Philippe de Broca saw her in 42nd Street and cast her in his film Les 1001 Nuits. It wasn't a particularly successful film, but it was seen by the producers of The Darling Buds of May. 'There is luck, yes,' she says. 'But I always think that you create your luck. If I hadn't been prepared and ready to go, David Merrick wouldn't have promoted me.' Clockwise from top left: as Velma Kelly in Chicago; with David Jason in The Darling Buds of May; with Jenna Ortega, Isaac Ordonez and Luis Guzmán in series two of Wednesday; with Dennis Quaid in the thriller Traffic After The Darling Buds of May, Zeta-Jones became disenchanted with the relentless gorgeous girlfriend roles that she was offered. 'I don't consider myself a great beauty,' she says. 'I always thought of myself as attractive and interesting, but never a great beauty.' She moved to America to reinvent herself and got a part in the CBS mini-series Titanic. Again this wasn't hugely successful, but it was seen by Steven Spielberg, who was producing The Mask of Zorro at the time, and suggested her for the female lead. It was this role that really elevated Zeta-Jones to international stardom, and was also seen by Michael Douglas, whose head was turned by her charisma. Soon after they were both attending the Deauville Film Festival and he arranged to have a drink with her. During their meeting he said to her: 'I am going to be the father of your children.' Zeta-Jones was not initially charmed, but eventually fell for him and they were married in a million-dollar New York wedding in 2000. Their children, Dylan and Carys, were born in 2000 and 2003 respectively; the Douglases retreating from New York to Bermuda to raise their family. 'The city in the summertime is too hot, so Michael took me to the Hamptons and I was like, 'same people in shorts'. The social calendar is exhausting. So Michael took me to Bermuda because his mother was Bermudian and I thought, 'I love this.' It's an hour and a half in a plane. It's a British colony, there were pictures of the Queen when I went to the bank. So we bought a house there and stayed for ten years.' Douglas is himself Hollywood royalty — his father was Kirk Douglas, the actor who played Spartacus and who died in 2020 aged 103. 'He was a flirty little thing,' Zeta-Jones says. 'He was wonderful and he was very fond of me, as I was of him. I miss him. They [Kirk and his wife, Anne] left a philanthropic legacy that was way beyond movies.' Kirk Douglas donated most of his money — which was estimated at over $60 million — to his charitable foundation, and left nothing to Michael. But the Douglases are not doing so badly themselves. They have four homes, two in New York, one in Canada and one in Spain. 'I know it sounds very jet set, and I love to surround myself with beauty but it's not excessive, it's very comfortable,' Zeta-Jones says. Zeta-Jones with Michael Douglas and their daughter, Carys, at the Cannes Film Festival, 2023 DANIELE VENTURELLI/WIREIMAGE As a couple they like to spend time in their home in Spain, away from their public-facing lives. It can be challenging, she admits, when big stars are a couple. 'Two celebrities together make ten. It's just the way it is. There's two versions of the story and there's two make-believes,' she says. 'We don't listen to the crap that is written about us, that's the main thing. And we respect our space, we're independent spirits. We are very similar; we were born on the same day, 25 years apart. We're not afraid to be verbal, to express ourselves. I wear everything on my sleeve and so does he, which is good.' Douglas has recently announced that, now aged 80, he has no real intentions of acting again and that he just likes 'to watch my wife work'. 'Michael has definitely earned the chance to slow down,' Zeta-Jones says. 'But I never say never. He's his father's son and loves to work — let's just say, 'retirement' is a flexible concept.' They both agree, however, that he will be playing a lot of golf. Whereas one of Zeta-Jones's favourite ways to relax is homemaking, specifically organising — and stocking — her numerous wardrobes. 'I go to all the vintage stores in Paris. I buy things that you are probably never going to wear, like a gorgeous cape, just great pieces. I am loving classic Yves Saint Laurent at the moment. I get excited about evening dresses. For me, a pair of jeans is a pair of jeans. Spending £200 on a white T-shirt? Nah. But when it comes to couture, beautiful beading, the artistry … I love the theatre of fashion.' She's got Carys, 22, hooked too. 'She loves my closet. I have probably the biggest Fendi Baguette bag collection, and she's just found more in my mum's house. I've got everything from denim to pearl to sequins. Carla Fendi used to give them to me all the time, right when they were hot potatoes.' Top, £195, Me+Em. Trousers, £410, Max Mara. Yellow gold and diamond Tiffany Knot necklace, £37,200, yellow gold Elsa Peretti Bone cuff, £23,300, yellow gold Tiffany T bracelet, £7,525, and yellow gold Tiffany Knot bracelet, £8,375, Tiffany & Co JAMES D KELLY Shirt, price on application, Michael Kors. Jacket, £3,017, and trousers, £1,165, Givenchy. Bra, £260, Eres. Clash de Cartier yellow gold earrings, £4,400, and matching ring (right hand), £2,410, Trinity white, rose and yellow gold and diamond necklace, £6,950, and matching ring (left hand), £11,200, Cartier JAMES D KELLY Zeta-Jones is an intriguing mix. There is something inherently regal about her, from her self-presentation to her demeanour. She is old Hollywood. But she can also be funny, a bit naughty even — which is when her Welsh accent comes out. When I ask where she and her husband keep their Oscars, she says 'mine is in the country house in New York, Michael's is in the apartment in New York. We keep them apart, just in case, you know, there isn't like hanky-panky going on there.' She also remains driven and ambitious, but her competitive streak is now largely limited to games of Yahtzee with the family. 'I have had such a great and varied career,' she says. 'I've worked with great directors, great actors. Everything now is a bonus.' Wednesday season two, part one is streaming on Netflix now. Part two premieres on September 3 Styling Marian Nachmia. Hair Maranda Widlund. Make-up Brett Freedman. Local production Town Productions. Thanks to the Corinthia London hotel Love TV? Discover the best shows on Netflix, the best Prime Video TV shows, the best Disney+ shows , the best Apple TV+ shows, the best shows on BBC iPlayer, the best shows on Sky and Now, the best shows on ITVX, the best shows on Channel 4 streaming, the best shows on Paramount+ and our favourite hidden gem TV shows. Don't forget to check our critics' choices to watch and browse our comprehensive TV guide
