'Rewriting of history': Robertson stands by Covid spending
Former Finance Minister Grant Robertson is standing by his economic spending decisions, and rejects the suggestion the last Labour government did not have enough real-world experience.
He says Labour was "absolutely" ready for government when Winston Peters chose the party over National in 2017, and the high volume of working groups was a result of wanting to include people in the areas "where there was big change required".
Robertson was being interviewed by Susie Ferguson on RNZ to promote his new book Anything Could Happen, which is available in bookstores from today. Covid-19 spending: 'Rewriting of history'
He says Labour's election loss in 2023 was primarily because it was a "cost of living election".
"There were other issues that sit beside that ... crime in Auckland was a big deal through that period of time, Covid, there was still some hangover from ... and just how much we'd been in people's lives.
"I remember, and I recount in the book, door knocking in Wellington Central in that '23 campaign and a woman thanking me for for the work that we'd done and said 'but you've had nine years, and I think it's time for a change'.
"It took me quite a while to convince her we had only had six. It sort of felt like nine for people because we were so involved in everybody's lives, but I fundamentally believe the core issue was around the cost of living - and people look for a change often when that's happening."
Despite that, he stood by the fiscal decisions made at the time.
"Treasury and others, as has been reported recently, were saying to us 'you need to be careful about the impact of what you're doing on inflation, on the economy' - and we knew that.
"But as I say, Delta arrived August 2021, we had to deal with that - and actually the Treasury supported us continuing on with the spending that we were doing. It's a bit of a rewriting of history to be frank, to say that they didn't."
He said the government did not know how long Covid was going to last, or the severity of the health or economic impacts - and was criticised by political opponents for not spending more in late 2021.
"I remember vividly the day I got the report from Treasury in early 2020 to tell me that we were facing a scenario of 13.5 percent unemployment, and from my perspective as the person dealing more with the economic rather than the health side I just knew I wasn't going to stand by and let that happen."
The Covid Recovery Fund was closed in 2022 but "then we get to the 2023 Budget and we're dealing with the Auckland Anniversary floods and Cyclone Gabrielle".
"We all knew that we had to be careful with where we went, and we didn't introduce in large number of new measures after late 2021 but we did carry on with the ones we had, because we still needed to look after New Zealanders and businesses.
"I get it that by 2022 the whole country - including us - was thoroughly sick of Covid."
He said the more deadly Delta variant had needed additional support and interventions, and while the country reopening did not happen as fast as some would like, "we stayed the course on saving lives", pointing to a report from Michael Plank showing excess death rates significantly lower in New Zealand compared to other countries. Covid-19 division: 'This is not New Zealand'
The policies were divisive though, and Robertson said his emotional response to the protest on Parliament's lawn was that "this is not New Zealand".
As MP for Wellington at the time, he was perturbed seeing the physical and mental damage after the country pulled together during the pandemic.
"They were being spat at for wearing masks, there were students going to the high schools around the area who had to be supported by security guards, and I just had that feeling 'this is not the country that I am so proud to be a part of'."
"That was the big emotion that I had. And the fire, I remember thinking gosh, as well as the children's playground that's there in Parliament you've got two huge old trees that have been in the grounds forever and they appeared to be going up in smoke as well and it was just horrifying to watch. And then the violence that just followed on from that."
He and other former ministers Jacinda Ardern, Chris Hipkins and Ayesha Verrall refused to attend the Covid-19 Royal Commission of Inquiry's public hearings last week.
He said he felt he had cooperated, but was concerned about the nature of the public hearings, and "the precedent effect of calling ministers and former minsters to that, the capacity for material to be misused".
"I think for me I'm up to about four and a half hours of interviews. When I finished my last set of interviews recently one of the staff at the Royal Commission said 'you've answered all of our questions and more', I left that meeting saying 'look, if you've got any further questions let us know'.
He referred to the phrase the former ministers used in explaining why they were not appearing, that it would be performative, not informative.
"This is meant to be a lessons learned exercise, I welcomed that, I think it's great that we've learned the lessons of Covid - but I think it was moving in a direction that was not really about that." Politics: 'We had a very clear plan'
Robertson said Peters' announcement that he would go into government with Labour in 2017 was an "extraordinary few minutes in politics for everybody in New Zealand" - a genuine moment of not knowing what would happen.
But Labour was, he said, "absolutely ready for government", pointing to the first 100 days plan, which included the Families Package: Family Tax credits, Best Start payments for young families, Winter Energy payments for older and poorer New Zealanders, and Accommodation Supplement increases.
The government also set up the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care, and brought in a free first year of tertiary education.
"We had a very clear plan. We also inherited a number of areas where there was big change required, and we wanted to involve and include people in that, and that's where you get working groups and so on coming from.
"I felt like, you know, we balanced together some really important immediate issues that we were addressing, along with getting into those bigger topics which eventually turned into quite substantive change in the health system, vocational education, resource management and so on."
He rejected the suggestion the 2017 Labour caucus had too many career politicians, and too little experience outside of politics.
"I don't accept that at all. I mean, we had a good range of skills and backgrounds and experiences in our Cabinet."
He said his understanding of the political and Parliamentary system was valuable, but he also learnt a lot about people from being an electorate MP. His electorate office was across the road from the Work and Income office and he would watch the people "at the end of their tether who we were there to help".
"The same with refugees who resettled, or people who were struggling with housing, or the health system - you learn a lot, and we're all part of our communities, whatever working background that we might have had."
Ardern approached him to take over from her when she was planning to step down as prime minister. Robertson said various factors led him to refuse the job - particularly, that he had seen what it required.
"I obviously looked at Jacinda's decision in two ways. One was as her friend, where I could absolutely understand the reasons why she wanted to step away. As her political colleague, I was clearly concerned about what that meant for us as a government, and where we were heading."
He said physical and mental health played a part in his decision not to take on the role, along with threats and abuse he faced towards the end of the Covid-19 response - but it was his decision years earlier not to pursue it that was a bigger factor.
"And I felt that knowing up close what being prime minister was about, you need to be able to give that 120 percent, you can't go into it with any suggestion of doubts of whether you want to do the job - that would be incredibly selfish to do that.
"So really those considerations were bigger for me." Childhood challenges
Robertson's book also covers his early years as the son of a lay minister, as the sports-mad youngest of three boys, his struggles with telling his family about his sexuality, and the shock of his father's imprisonment.
He told RNZ his father being sentenced for stealing from his employer was "devastating" both personally for him as a young student and for his family, particularly his mother.
With her husband in jail and her children studying, the family had little income at that point.
"My father was obviously the person who had to go to prison, and he'd done something very stupid to put himself in that position. But it reverberates quickly.
"I loved my father very much. I was angry with him about what he'd done. He'd let down a lot of people around him and breached the trust of a lot of people around him, but I still needed to be there for him.
"And so the next sort of 18 months or so that he was in prison, I visited him pretty much every week and learned a lot about what is good and mostly about what is bad in our prison system. And you know, just try to support him as best I could, but it was a devastating blow for everybody."
He said he was fascinated as a 12-year-old by the 1984 election "which marks me out as a complete nerd, I realise", but politics was often discussed and debated within the family.
"My mother is a very political person with strong views, and we heard about them a lot when we were at home. And you know that, I guess, flowed through to me."
Opening up to his family about being gay was more of a struggle, however.
"I didn't really have a word for it for a while, but particularly around the period of the Homosexual Law Reform Act that - obviously, there was huge debate, it was not a positive debate ... so that was, unfortunately for me, almost exactly the time that I was coming to understand that I probably was gay.
"And I was growing up in the church and while it was a fairly liberal church environment it still, there was connotations and negativity ... I kind of kept it in a box for a long time.
"One or two friends sort of found out, and then I had an unfortunate incident where I got very, very drunk and went to a party and the subject my sexuality was on show in a really unfortunate way ... I had a very supportive family through that period, and friends as well. But like a lot of teenagers, I was doing some pretty risky things while I was working out who I was."
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Book of the Week: Hey big spender
There's a line early in Grant Robertson's smart and entertaining memoir Anything Could Happen that will have his political and fiscal opponents smirking. He's in his teens and his mother decides to give him and his brothers the money from the family benefit so they can buy their own clothes. 'I think I bought more lollies than clothes, but it was a good education in how to make money stretch,' Robertson remembers. The former finance minister, who now stands accused of frittering away $60 billion under his watch during the pandemic, cost-of-living crisis and cyclone, might smirk too at the inevitable imagery of a lolly scramble. But in Anything Could Happen, published this week less than a fortnight after a Treasury paper highlighted concerns over the quality of that fiscal spend-up, he anticipates and confronts that interpretation. Not for Robertson the quiet standing by as history is (re)written by the victors. He indicates as much in the acknowledgements at the end of a book that is complementary to, rather than competing with, the June 2025 memoir of his great friend and leader Jacinda Ardern. 'I was worried that I did not have the perspective to write this book now, that I was still too close to it all. But the pace of history is quick nowadays. I could feel the story of my time in politics being written and set in concrete around me,' he says, as the current mandarins inhabiting The Treasury building freshly trowel their cement. 'I wanted to write about what happened and perhaps more importantly, how it felt. I'm pleased I did. I am proud of what we did and how we did it, and I also know we did not get everything right.' Robertson's book is personally revealing (his father's imprisonment, his own partial paralysis, panic attack and extreme anxiety) and wonderfully candid politically (on sitting beside Winston Peters in the Cabinet room, hiding on the floor to avoid 3 News' Jenna Lynch). He is proud rather than apologetic for the actions of the Sixth Labour Government. And he does offer calibrated concessions over what it got wrong. In many ways this is a better book than Ardern's for those seeking insights into the politics and politicians of the past two decades, and wanting warts and all with their modern history. Ardern wrote for a global audience through a lens of personal transformation and affirmation for those unsure of their values, character and capacity for leadership. Robertson, first her boss in the PM's office in the Beehive, then colleague as an MP, then running mate when he bid for Labour's leadership, then deputy, consigliere, eminence grise, friend and fan, is altogether more direct. He confides a little more in the reader, he offers more judgments on others (the section on David Cunliffe and the strength of Robertson's observations have caused a stir), and he regularly admits to being 'gutted' when things did not or could not go his way. Their paths are similar (churchy upbringing, bright, good debater, university political awakening, tapped by Phil Goff to stand for Labour) and their growing-up stories are more fascinating than simple childhoods recalled from Murupara or South Dunedin have a right to be. Robertson's opening chapter, 'Beginnings', ends with: 'It was a middle-class, middle-New Zealand life. But I was harbouring a secret – one that as my Sixth Form year arrived would nearly cost me my life.' Spoiler alert: It involves teen obsession, tensions with friends as it becomes apparent he is gay, drinking a whole gin bottle and crashing a party. 'My relationship with alcohol would continue to be destructive for several years until I became truly comfortable with who I am.' He has spoken elsewhere on whether his being gay counted against him when he stood for the Labour leadership in 2014. Here, Robertson concedes: 'In reality I knew it was likely to be an issue and one that might be too tough to get past.' At that time, anything couldn't happen. Violence and abuse could, though, and did: he was punched in the face in the street when he was a student, and followed and screamed at as Deputy PM in the Wairarapa as late as 2022: 'I'm going to get you, you fucking faggot.' A month later, at the airport in Whangārei, he hears protesters with a megaphone calling him a pervert and paedophile who 'deserved to die'. Robertson is matter of fact assessing this horror: 'The homophobic element of the abuse I received was always strong. I am very comfortable in who I am, but I continued to worry that such a strand of bigotry existed in New Zealand, and what it still meant for future generations.' His retelling of life in the Beehive under Helen Clark and H2 – her chief of staff Heather Simpson – is wry and memorable. 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'In my time with Helen there was only one issue I think she got wrong and that was the Foreshore and Seabed legislation .. This is one of the only times I believe panic took hold. Helen felt that she could not hold middle New Zealand without putting this issue to bed. It felt wrong.' Robertson's win in Wellington Central to become an MP in 2008, into Opposition with fellow newbie Ardern and their shared 'pragmatic idealism' prefaces years of leadership instability within Labour, and a chapter simply called 'Nine Long Years'. Robertson was there, or thereabouts, as leaders doubted themselves, were ousted, replaced, ousted and replaced until finally the space opened in front of Jacinda Ardern in 2017. He is not as assiduous in his book as she was in keeping caucus secrets. And thank Grant for that. 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'I came to the view that Winston hated making decisions … [It] seemed to me reflective of a person who was incredibly nervous about putting his penny down.' Robertson's descriptions of Peters' behaviour in the Cabinet room are valuable not just as tittle tattle but for the historical record. And you can see them ringing true for this current coalition Government: 'Some days it seemed to me at least, if he was feeling curmudgeonly or tired or he needed a smoke, he could seize on a minor point and derail a paper. Often this would be on a matter related to the Treaty of Waitangi or to an issue he saw as 'too green'. Sometimes it was as though an issue would trigger a memory of a past event. It was exhausting, and sometimes debilitating for the government.' If there is a publishing god, Winston Peters might one day set out his time looking over at Robertson's laptop at the Cabinet table, noting the finance minister's moods and ministerial targets. 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Vision Products generates funds and awareness to support its sister charity Vision for Humanity, which he says aims to 'elevate global consciousness and empower people to co-create a successful planet, with more peace, prosperity and joy in the world'. Larking says VFH is developing a wide range of resources to help people 'holistically advance their lives', and there are large-scale templates the charity is working on as initiatives to positively shape the world. When VFH officially launches, Larking says he will bring all of the services into a planned 'urban sanctuary' he hopes to open next year. Larking is also a self-published author, with his first book, Health Psychology: A Paradigm Shift to Greater Health Span, released last year. It includes techniques to assist people with life balance, authentic happiness, self-empowerment, and functional ageing. Kim Larking released his first book last year. 'The greatest satisfaction has come from the regular stream of people who have informed me how the book has helped them,' Larking says. He lives what he teaches, looking years younger than his 61 years, but he believes age is irrelevant anyway – it's your functional or biological age that counts. He says he has refined all his lifestyle habits for optimal well-being and health span, but likes to blend in at a party. 'I drink kombucha from a champagne glass and cranberry juice from a red wine glass to keep everyone feeling comfortable,' he says. Party people of the week Forever Auckland FC Sky TV teamed up with Auckland FC at Event Cinemas Newmarket on Friday night to celebrate the launch of its upcoming docuseries, Forever Auckland FC. AFC founders Anna Mowbray and Ali Williams were joined by a host of Black Knights players, including captain Hiroki Sakai, defenders Francis De Vries and Dan Hall, AFC's CEO Nick Becker and head coach Steve Corica (recently named Isuzu UTE A-League Coach of the Year). Dan Carter and Anna Mowbray at the premiere of Forever Auckland FC at Event Cinemas Newmarket. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Other guests included former All Black legend Dan Carter, former Olympian Steve Ferguson and his wife, TV personality Shelley Ferguson, Sky's chief corporate affairs officer Chris Major, Sky NZ Original's Nick Ward (senior commissioner and executive producer of the series), and head of sport content, Gary Burchett. Guests were treated to a preview of the first two episodes of the eight-part series, executive produced by a Kiwi television icon, NHNZ Worldwide's Dame Julie Christie. Newstalk ZB's Jason Pine MC-ed the event, leading a pre-screening Q&A with Christie, Mowbray, Becker, Corica, and De Vries. The AFC panel shared their experiences of inviting cameras into the club – an idea of Christie's, greenlit by AFC to honour their rapidly amassed and loyal fanbase. The series premieres on Sky Open and Neon on August 27. Nick Ward and Dame Julie Christie. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Ali Williams and Anna Mowbray with members of their families at the premiere of Forever Auckland FC. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Marlee François. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Anna Mowbray, Dame Julie Christie and Jason Pine. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Shelley and Steve Ferguson. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Logan Rogerson, Jordie Gibbens, Dan Hall and Lachlan Brook. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Megg Alexander. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Francis De Vries and Steve Corica. Photos / Michelle Hyslop and Kellie Blizzard Real Housewives of London preview The exclusive New Zealand preview of The Real Housewives of London took place in Auckland last Thursday. The show is reality streaming platform Hayu's first commission of an original series, expanding the global franchise that includes versions filmed in Beverly Hills, New York, Dubai and many other cities around the world. Guests watched the first episode, which introduced its six stars – Juliet Angus, Karen Loderick-Peace, Juliet Mayhew, Panthea Parker, Amanda Cronin and Nessie Welschinger – while enjoying prosecco and a British-inspired high tea at the Library boutique cinema at Westfield Newmarket. Guests included RuPaul's Drag Race Down Under Season 1 winner, Kita Mean, former reality stars Colin Mathura-Jeffree and entrepreneur lyia Liu, ZM host Georgia Burt and influencer Win Wolf. The Real Housewives of London is available to stream on Hayu, with episodes dropping weekly for a 10-episode run. The series will culminate with a reunion special hosted by London-based Canadian comedian Katherine Ryan. Tony Collins, Colin Mathura-Jeffree and Lucy Sharp at the Real Housewives of London premiere in the Library boutique cinema at Westfield Newmarket. Photo / 818 Carmen Tsoi and Bethany Pettengell. Photo / 818 Arii Jade. Photo / 818 Kita Mean. Photo / 818 Win Wolf. Photo / 818 Yasmina Coe. Photo / 818 Dominic Corry and Anna-Lisa Tombolato. Photo / 818 Flynn Adamson. Photo / 818 Ricardo Simich has been with the Herald since 2008 where he contributed to The Business Insider. In 2012 he took over Spy at the Herald on Sunday, which has since evolved into Society Insider. The weekly column gives a glimpse into the worlds of the rich and famous.
Otago Daily Times
2 hours ago
- Otago Daily Times
Piles of piles, and of problems
Just how difficult is it really to build a hospital, Dejan Mandich asks. Judging by efforts of successive governments in New Zealand, building a hospital is a Herculean task, bordering on impossible. Some years ago, Dunedin and the New Zealand populace were told Dunedin will get a new hospital and a new outpatient building. Almost immediately we were shown the artist's impression of the new buildings. Ratepayers were told the total cost will be $1.4 billion — eight years ago. We were told that the government formed a committee (what else than a good old money-wasting committee) with a task to decide the best location for the new hospital. Mind you, no public consultation, no experts' opinion, only the good old committee. And said committee, like any other formal group, has to have a leader. Who would be better suited than the trusting party cadre, a former minister? Like being a minister is a relevant occupation or guarantees expertise in the process of finding a location for a hospital. A few meetings down the track the location was revealed with fanfare — the former Cadbury site. Luckily, Mondelez decided to vacate the factory and warehouse, leaving potential buyers with the cost of demolishing the same. Officially $140 million was paid to Mondelez for the site (from $1.4b). The cost of demolition was not published. With possession of the precious and very expensive site, time came to look at the soil which will hold the proposed eight-floor hospital building. From then on unexplained delays kept pushing the beginning of the building further into the future. Yes, over the years the outpatient building was erected slowly but securely, the Cadbury factory and warehouse were demolished and piles were hammered into the ground. But the design of the main building has reportedly changed several times, seemingly always in response to public outcry to the cuts in promised services. The famous $1.4b figure was circulated from time to time — I think mainly to remind people that we cannot and should not be greedy. The Covid epidemic and lockdowns were used for a while as an excuse for delays — but actual lockdown in Dunedin was four weeks, and tradies returned to work after three weeks. The local lolly factory worked through lockdown because someone decided lollies are essential food. Further years passed. A new minister decided to appear on TV with the good news — the new hospital build was starting in earnest now. We were told the government (this one and the subsequent one) would be happy to pay $1.8b — no more. Well, some of initial $1.4b had already been spent on purchase of the site with buildings, demolition of the buildings, soil testing, consultations, consultations, projects, consultations, designs, consultations, business cases, consultations, redesigns, consultations, outpatient building, purchasing of material and equipment for outpatient building, consultations, wages for workers, water, power, workers' accommodation, food, consultation and I hope cheese rolls but not without consultation. After the minister's TV appearance bulldozers and diggers swarmed the main hospital building site, roamed between the piles, removed about half a metre depth of dirt, and in an orderly fashion created a mound on the same site and left. We were told through the news outlets that the contract with the earth-moving company was cancelled because, oh no, there are changes made to the original design. To return to the beginning. One would expect that someone in the Labour government of the time had experience in building and knew that the first step before design is to know what the soil is like. The quality and type of soil would determine the size and height of the building, but most importantly type and depth of foundation. One would expect that someone in the government of the day would have looked at locations and commission geologists to drill the soil and find out which site was adequate for a new hospital. One would expect that the government would have had the means to negotiate with owners of potential sites to let the geological surveys take place. Then there is a need to project population growth and utilisation of hospital beds 30 years into future. Then a decision should be made regarding the extent of regional health services (what diseases should be treated and what surgeries should be performed in Dunedin), how many clinicians should the hospital employ (all of this is hypothetical but necessary to help decide the size of future hospital). Then provisional design is sought — this should then inform the cost (or at least lowest and highest projected cost). Then the Treasury should, based on this information, advise on how much money is going to be available. Only then the minister could come in front of the public with a projected cost and time frames, location, foreseen problems (just to be on the safe side). Most importantly, this should have been, from the beginning, a bipartisan project, because it is not a single political party achievement; it is a project that benefits the whole of New Zealand not only Otago and Southland. • Dejan Mandich is a consultant psychiatrist.
